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theflyingorc posted:I was in a game against both last night. It was miserable. Even champs like Akali are problematic. Before, you spend 125 gold and then the next time she drops her shroud you pink and get a chance to kill or push her out of lane. And even if you fail, you've got vision of that area for 3 minutes. Now, you spend 100 gold for the same chance, and as soon as you go back or get zoned at all, it's gone. It could last 10 seconds. That's a pretty big tax increase.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:12
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Che Delilas posted:
Well, there's less active items available and it boils down to just playing a carry but CSing less, so.. inthesto posted:Duelists. "Welcome to the Yasuno spotlight. Yasuno is an assassin-light-fighter-controller-carry-mobile-candlestick maker," Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 19:16
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Che Delilas posted:Even champs like Akali are problematic. Before, you spend 125 gold and then the next time she drops her shroud you pink and get a chance to kill or push her out of lane. And even if you fail, you've got vision of that area for 3 minutes. Now, you spend 100 gold for the same chance, and as soon as you go back or get zoned at all, it's gone. It could last 10 seconds. That's a pretty big tax increase. Honestly...this might be completely crazy, but I think I'd be OK with all wards revealing stealthed units/teemo shrooms, but keeping (or even expanding) the usefulness of stealth against champions. Or they could just make pink wards really cheap.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:20
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Haven't seen it attempted/heard anything about it, but how would a Rumble support work with the new changes? Electro-Harpoons + Scrap Shield would make him a bastard in poking and winning trades early on, although all of the support items seem kinda wasteful on him since you're either building a ton of HP/5 with the Targon line or Mana regen with the Frost Queen's Claim line.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:21
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Us there a good summary of the summoner spell changes floating around?I recently got into the habit if running flash teleport most of the time, and wasn't too know if it'll still be viable.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:28
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w00tmonger posted:Us there a good summary of the summoner spell changes floating around?I recently got into the habit if running flash teleport most of the time, and wasn't too know if it'll still be viable. For the most part summoner spells were buffed. Not flash obviously.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:29
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So my new favorite thing is getting enough CDR as Taric to chain stun people to death.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:31
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It seems like the majority of people in this thread who love the support changes are lower Elo and not necessarily support players while the majority of the plat and higher players, in particular the support players, dislike the changes or think they make the game less interesting. Gee, I wonder what's going on here? Hint:if you didn't know how to carry as a support without the new items you didn't know how to play support.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:32
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w00tmonger posted:Us there a good summary of the summoner spell changes floating around?I recently got into the habit if running flash teleport most of the time, and wasn't too know if it'll still be viable. Aside from flash being a nearly universal staple still, things are about the same. Barrier, exhaust, ignite, teleport (and to a more niche extent ghost as a flash replacement) are all very viable. The key to teleport is using it to do more than get back into lane early game; it can give you huge control over things like dragon as a top-laner, and facilitate very fast ganks from any lane by hopping to wards in bushes and all that poo poo. It also lets you side push and contest baron at the same time later in the game.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:33
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:It seems like the majority of people in this thread who love the support changes are lower Elo and not necessarily support players while the majority of the plat and higher players, in particular the support players, dislike the changes or think they make the game less interesting. Gee, I wonder what's going on here? The whole point of the changes was to make there be less people who would say this about themselves.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:35
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:Hint:if you didn't know how to carry as a support without the new items you didn't know how to play support. It wasn't really about carrying it was about making the role not be tedious bullshit that nobody but a small minority enjoyed playing.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:40
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The goal was to have supports feel like they're doing more, which roughly translates to "You're tankier, or you have more AP, or you have more neato items". The effect I'm seeing is that supports have more damage in general, which means that non-support players like it because they probably like to do damage. However this has effects on everyone! The thing I posted earlier about junglers is part of it. Now, if you're Aatrox for example, you have even more danger when you're trying to jump into a fight and do a great initiation. I think junglers are in a tenuous spot currently- they're likely the weakest member of the team when it hits midgame, which hurts if you're a traditional semi-tanky initiator jungler. What I'm saying is that everything affects everything else and I think the grand impact is that jungling is getting the short end of the stick. The other thing that I haven't fully felt out yet by playing is if supports who primarily do damage (with a bit of CC, aka Annie) are more valuable than supports who are more primarily utility.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:46
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Whats the patch for for 27Nov? it's a small one and nothing in the forum about it. Hot fix Relic Shield?
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Nov 27, 2013 19:56
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If they really want to make junglers have more gold they need to make machete or spirit stone have the gold passives, it sucks to have to spend 2000 gold to start getting decent gold. If you get behind on a jungler it double sucks because now the enemy jungler will snowball ahead of you when they get their gold item earlier.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:56
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NinjaC posted:Whats the patch for for 27Nov? it's a small one and nothing in the forum about it. Hot fix Relic Shield? Relic shield cooldown increased to one minute, no longer executes on ranged AA. Minor nerf to my Rumble-Riven manaless double bruiser lane, but on the whole, not too big of deal.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:59
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:It seems like the majority of people in this thread who love the support changes are lower Elo and not necessarily support players while the majority of the plat and higher players, in particular the support players, dislike the changes or think they make the game less interesting. Gee, I wonder what's going on here? I'm just silver, but I liked playing support before and I like playing support now.
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Nov 27, 2013 19:59
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Zahki posted:It wasn't really about carrying it was about making the role not be tedious bullshit that nobody but a small minority enjoyed playing. Yeah, "you just didn't know how to play support right  " is missing the point. Why were supports getting to play only half the game the other four people were playing (item progression, and all the effects that has on your champion and your experience in the game)?Dragongem posted:What I'm saying is that everything affects everything else and I think the grand impact is that jungling is getting the short end of the stick. From the little I've seen, I have to agree with you (mostly - Eve is kind of a monster right now but for unrelated reasons). It's especially bad because if you poo poo on the other jungler, the monster level changes means he can get right back into the game. Meaning you as a jungler have less impact than you used to. Anti-snowball mechanics, I get it, but it's maybe gone a little too far. What is the point in jungling now, except maybe to camp a lane and get someone else to snowball, and maybe warding? Bringing extra CC to a teamfight? I mean, you don't as much of a direct impact as a fighter or tank because your gold income is so far below everyone else's. Wait. I've seen this somewhere before... what was that called...
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Nov 27, 2013 20:13
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:It seems like the majority of people in this thread who love the support changes are lower Elo and not necessarily support players while the majority of the plat and higher players, in particular the support players, dislike the changes or think they make the game less interesting. Gee, I wonder what's going on here? Two Words for you: Stockholm Syndrome. Platinum Support players have suffered so long they've convinced themselves they liked it.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:19
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Support is a lot more fun to play now. Some pro players will not like it because they are good at the current meta and don't want change, they'll adapt. Maybe whine some in the process but who honestly cares about that.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:21
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Saith posted:^^^Is there some sacred edict blessing ranged autoattackers with the divine right to carry and no one else? Well, if you have a ranged autoattacker on your team and he's not completely loving worthless at it you're best off giving him the lion's share of the farm because he sure as poo poo isn't going to be any use without stat sticks.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:29
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Support has gone from being my least favourite position to play to probably my second favourite (first being top lane). The fun aspect of support of making plays for your adc is still there, but now you actually get rewarded for it and have some actual damage impact in the overall outcome as well, rather than praying your ADC is switched on and follows up properly on your initiation. As for jungle, i used to love it but now i really can't stand it  edit: i think the worst aspect of the new jungle is the added emphasis on farming conflicting with the laner expectation of S3 where you would usually grab buffs then camp a lane. The pubby tears of "noob jungler never ganks" seem worse than ever now/ Or maybe i've just had a bad run of games 
Partyworm fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 20:32
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It's not even like supporting has changed that much, if you enjoy playing Thresh/Janna/Lulu you can still do that, except now instead of sitting on your Ruby Sightstone and Boots 1 all game you actually have some item progression to look forward to. I'm not even sure what the downside is supposed to be here, what was so integral to the support experience that you can't enjoy it now you have some cash flow? It's pretty clear what they're trying to do, I'm almost certain that all the complaints are reactionary kneejerking based on what supports are strong in the very early days of preseason, obviously some are stronger than others right now, it won't stay that way.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:32
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DatonKallandor posted:Two Words for you: Stockholm Syndrome. Platinum Support players have suffered so long they've convinced themselves they liked it. No no no no no, that isn't it whatsoever. The whole schtick that support is "just a ward bot" in seasons 1-3 is totally off. You mean I can trade off spending 12-20 minutes of tedious-as-gently caress last hitting for 12-20 minutes per game extra of dodging skill shots, and on top of that I get to make plays in the river and occasionally roam during that time? Well drat sign me up! It's not like building items in this game is remotely exciting outside of the support ones, hydra, and hurricane anyways.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:34
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I don't know why everyone is saying junglers are weak now, Shyvana and Olaf and such see regular bans and can usually stay equal or ahead of the power curve, I frequently go back with 2000-3000g saved up because there is just so much gold in the jungle with golem stone and the new defensive masteries have insane regeneration to keep you in it. Maybe it's just none-tanky junglers with weak clears everyone is saying are bad now? although those have always been weaker.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:37
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For what it's worth, I basically mained support through season 3 and I think the changes are great. The only real issue is the lack of oracles making it much harder to be certain what areas of the map you do or don't have vision control of.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:39
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Maybe it's just none-tanky junglers with weak clears everyone is saying are bad now? although those have always been weaker. That, and now that everyone gets a free ward it's harder to gank lanes
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Nov 27, 2013 20:39
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:It seems like the majority of people in this thread who love the support changes are lower Elo and not necessarily support players while the majority of the plat and higher players, in particular the support players, dislike the changes or think they make the game less interesting. Gee, I wonder what's going on here? Man, I've got the worst of both worlds. I'm lower ELO and hate the support changes because Lulu/Nami were my 2nd/3rd most played champions last season.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:41
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henkman posted:That, and now that everyone gets a free ward it's harder to gank lanes Actually, easier. You know exactly how many wards they have out just by looking at the trinket. Have fun.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:42
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That game was amazing. 1 Nexus turret down and they didn't even have 2 turrets down in any lane, then, we get all pep talk. We push, and push, sticking together taking the small victories when and where we can. We pushed and we eventually won. Think of every cliche movie thing you can imagine, it was all there.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:42
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Piss Sodastream posted:Actually, easier. You know exactly how many wards they have out just by looking at the trinket. Have fun. Well now jungling just got a lot better
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Nov 27, 2013 20:43
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The only reason supports popped up was because they could be useful without gold, give them gold and its not really supporting. This is fine but they spent 3 years balancing and creating champions for it. It's dumb on many levels, Riot needs therapy.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:47
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The latest PBE patch featured this change: Spirit of Spectral Wraith Now has "Unique Passive: Gain 100 movement speed and ignore unit collision for 3 seconds upon killing a unit" Interesting. Edit: here are the current stats for it on the PBE (they changed the health/mana regen for every Spirit Stone item a couple days ago). +50 Ability Power +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: Gain 100 Movement Speed and ignore unit collision for 3 seconds upon killing a unit. UNIQUE Passive - Spirit Drain: Restore 9% of damage dealt to monsters as Health and 6% as Mana. (One-third effect for area of effect spells). UNIQUE Passive - Butcher: Deal 30% bonus damage to monsters. UNIQUE Passive - Conservation: Upon killing a large or epic monster, grants up to 40 bonus Gold, based on the last time Conservation triggered. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 20:55
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Piss Sodastream posted:Actually, easier. You know exactly how many wards they have out just by looking at the trinket. Have fun. Do you think this intentional or just a side effect of the whole buff icon UI system they had in place at the time? I have a feeling it was an oversight that'll get fixed, but then again,  Mierenneuker posted:The latest PBE patch featured this change: And YOU get a Jinx passive, and YOU get a Jinx passive!
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Nov 27, 2013 20:55
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Invalid Validation posted:The only reason supports popped up was because they could be useful without gold, give them gold and its not really supporting. This is fine but they spent 3 years balancing and creating champions for it. It's dumb on many levels, Riot needs therapy. I think the primary complaint I have about the season 3 changes is that playing Sona or Soraka or Janna is terrible idea anymore, what with all the Tarics and Annies in the bot lanes.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:58
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theflyingorc posted:The whole point of the changes was to make there be less people who would say this about themselves. Well, it's not really changing if people are support players or not because new supporting is just playing Jarvan or whatever. Che Delilas posted:And YOU get a Jinx passive, and YOU get a Jinx passive! Unit, not hero.
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Nov 27, 2013 20:58
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Che Delilas posted:Do you think this intentional or just a side effect of the whole buff icon UI system they had in place at the time? I have a feeling it was an oversight that'll get fixed, but then again, It could be either way. unintentional because riot's QA is lackluster at best. Intentional because you're getting a free goddamned ward and actually farming the jungle is moronic right now (the jungler position is still good, just not the jungle itself.) Either way, expect it to be changed the same patch that they go into the actual season.
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Nov 27, 2013 21:04
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What kind of jungler needs 100 movespeed when killing a unit? What the heck? It's like a lane gank where you have to pause to last hit a minion or something? My first thought is that it's an evelynn buff, because she'll likely kill some minion on the way to ganking someone. Evelynn needs buffs?
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Nov 27, 2013 21:06
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I assume the passive triggers when you smite a minion, so you'd be making the most of the lower cooldown in season 4.
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Nov 27, 2013 21:09
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Remember last year when people complained about how Riot shouldn't add and change millions of new items, changing a basic game mechanic and more changes to the jungle? Good times!
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Nov 27, 2013 21:11
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Well, let's be honest here: 1. It was datamined from a PBE patch. The actual server isn't back up yet. Who knows if it is real. 2. It's the PBE. There's no guarantee it will make it to live in it's current or any form. Edit: I'll know more in 20 minutes. PBE just came back up. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 21:14
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