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Bioshuffle posted:I find this question particularly relevant, as RBG herself faced a lot of criticism from ageists who felt she should have retired during Obama's tenure as to secure a liberal spot. Obviously, she ignored them. And it worked out so well for her!
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Sep 23, 2020 20:02
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mandatory lesbian posted:And it worked out so well for her! Her work ethic was nothing short of superhuman. She came to court a day after her husband passed away. She went to work wearing a fanny pack containing her chemo gear. The woman was a badass through and through and she never gave up, so yes. I would say it worked out great for her legacy.
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Sep 23, 2020 20:05
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Her legacy is likely to be having most of the stuff she spent her career working for rolled back because she didn't retire in a controlled way that produced a successor that shared at least some of her values
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Sep 23, 2020 20:08
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Bioshuffle posted:Her work ethic was nothing short of superhuman. She came to court a day after her husband passed away. She went to work wearing a fanny pack containing her chemo gear. The woman was a badass through and through and she never gave up, so yes. I would say it worked out great for her legacy. Her legacy is about 3 weeks away from getting completely erased by a 6-3 court that even a Dem Senate won't fix because of shitheads like Feinstein and Manchin
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Sep 23, 2020 20:08
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That's certainly a possibility, but I can't predict the future, so we'll just have to wait and see. If you haven't already, I highly suggest you watch the documentary about her called RBG. I saw it on Hulu and it gave me a lot of insight about why she refused to back down.
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Sep 23, 2020 20:23
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LeeMajors posted:Hey remember when she loving scolded a bunch of kids who approached her about fears of dying in boiling oceans? Feinstein loving sucks and none of this is a surprise. What was she supposed to do, have all of them institutionalized?
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Sep 23, 2020 20:45
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At this point it doesn't matter what her reasons were or were not. Her decision, assuming nothing changes in the dynamics of the current status quo, means that her life's work on the court will be undone. She can be a remarkable individual on a personal level while still loving up her work legacy. Those don't have to exist in contradiction.
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Sep 23, 2020 20:48
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Drone Jett posted:What was she supposed to do, have all of them institutionalized? Maybe do something about climate change, but hey gently caress the kids they deserve to suffer for daring to ask her to do her job i guess
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Sep 23, 2020 21:00
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Piell posted:Maybe do something about climate change, but hey gently caress the kids they deserve to suffer for daring to ask her to do her job i guess There's nothing she can do that will affect the odds of them "boiling alive." Public policy shouldn't be made on the basis of delusional children's requests, although I can see why goons would struggle with this idea. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 23, 2020 21:04
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Drone Jett posted:What was she supposed to do, have all of them institutionalized? Maybe support legislation that may make their future world better? Like they were asking? Drone Jett posted:There's nothing she can do that will affect the odds of them "boiling alive." Public policy shouldn't be made on the basis of delusional children's requests, although I can see why goons would struggle with this idea. lol go gently caress yourself shes a billion years old and no longer has a stake in this world. she should gently caress off to the glue factory or whatever.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:28
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Bioshuffle posted:Her work ethic was nothing short of superhuman. She came to court a day after her husband passed away. She went to work wearing a fanny pack containing her chemo gear. The woman was a badass through and through and she never gave up, so yes. I would say it worked out great for her legacy. and where did it get the nation? Oh right, about, what does everyone think, t minus a month-ish from a 6-3 court tipped over by an absolute Handmaid's Tale style psychopath?
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Sep 23, 2020 21:32
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There are contemporary articles showing that even if she had retired in the final year of Obamas administration, McConnell intended to keep that seat also open anyway. It is well beyond the realm of expectation that if you retired in year four of four that your seat would not be replaced by the sitting president, but that is clearly what would have occurred anyway.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEPo34LCss8 Politics of the whole thing aside, I couldn't help but chuckle at this exchange. "I hear what you're saying but we're the people who voted you. You're supposed to listen to us." "How old are you?" "Sixteen" "Then you didn't vote for me" I guess optics isn't one of her strong points. Regardless, I stand by my point that age alone should not play a factor into someone's ability to perform a job. That is an outdated and ageist view. Age discrimination is a real thing that exists.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:39
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She’s only doing her job insofar as she’s showing up and acting as if everything is business as usual and that isn’t loving good enough.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:41
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LeeMajors posted:She’s only doing her job insofar as she’s showing up and acting as if everything is business as usual and that isn’t loving good enough. Back on topic, we still have no idea if that seat will be filled or not. There's a very good chance it won't get filled before the election year, in which case RGB's legacy will remain in tact. Let's not forget that she is just as famous for her letters of dissent.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:52
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My magical grandma will never die, and if you disagree you’re an ageist.
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Sep 23, 2020 21:58
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Bioshuffle posted:I find this question particularly relevant, as RBG herself faced a lot of criticism from ageists who felt she should have retired during Obama's tenure as to secure a liberal spot. Obviously, she ignored them. By that point she had already had cancer 3 times.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:02
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Bioshuffle posted:Back on topic, we still have no idea if that seat will be filled or not. There's a very good chance it won't get filled before the election year, in which case RGB's legacy will remain in tact. Let's not forget that she is just as famous for her letters of dissent. What makes you think there’s a chance Trump is not filling this seat? The only question is if they get it done before the election, and I don’t think anyone is gonna stop that from happening.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:30
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Pick posted:There are contemporary articles showing that even if she had retired in the final year of Obamas administration, McConnell intended to keep that seat also open anyway. It is well beyond the realm of expectation that if you retired in year four of four that your seat would not be replaced by the sitting president, but that is clearly what would have occurred anyway. good thing most of the discussion is about how she should have retired at the early part, then, when dems ran the show and McConnell's only recourse would be 'cry like a bitch'!
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Sep 23, 2020 22:34
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Bioshuffle posted:If you disagree with her and think she's the devil incarnate, you're perfectly entitled to. Her age should not play a factor into that, at all. This is literally not the case at all when it's a lifetime appointment. The amount of time left that someone likely has to live is directly correlated to the position, especially if they're apparently the only thing in an unelected body holding back a full rollback on minority rights nationwide as I've been told RBG was. If RBG gave a poo poo about anything other than her own ego she would have retired in 2014.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:34
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:This is literally not the case at all when it's a lifetime appointment. The amount of time left that someone likely has to live is directly correlated to the position, especially if they're apparently the only thing in an unelected body holding back a full rollback on minority rights nationwide as I've been told RBG was. CNN has talked a lot about how RGB really wanted her successor to be chosen by Hillary. Do you think if Bernie had won in 2016, she would have retired and let him fill the seat? I think she would have.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:46
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I really doubt that RBG liked Bernie any more than she liked Trump, I don't think that she would have retired for anyone other than Hillary.
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Sep 23, 2020 22:48
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:I really doubt that RBG liked Bernie any more than she liked Trump, I don't think that she would have retired for anyone other than Hillary. while this is an essentially non-disprovable assertion because it appears that she adhered to the usual tradition of not commenting on politicians re Bernie, I would like to note that she broke that rule for Trump because she hated and feared him, which taken in conjunction with her entire history of jurisprudence would suggest to me that she did not, in fact, dislike Bernie as much as Trump. This ongoing campaign to villainize RBG is very weird to me.
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Sep 23, 2020 23:14
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Bernie never had as good a chance of being president as Trump did, there's not really any reason she would have bothered to comment on him. I don't believe that she would retire for Hillary's biggest enemy of 2016 when she refused to do so for her biggest enemy of 2008.GreyjoyBastard posted:This ongoing campaign to villainize RBG is very weird to me. She handed the SC to the fascists for an entire generation out of pure ego, and people are still hero worshipping her. A "campaign" to villainize such a piece of poo poo person is a pretty natural reaction.
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Sep 23, 2020 23:18
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:She handed the SC to the fascists for an entire generation out of pure ego, and people are still hero worshipping her. A "campaign" to villainize such a piece of poo poo person is a pretty natural reaction. Dying inconveniently doesn't make someone a piece of poo poo. I mean come on. Some real weird energy to that POV. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 23:22
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Pick posted:There are contemporary articles showing that even if she had retired in the final year of Obamas administration, McConnell intended to keep that seat also open anyway. It is well beyond the realm of expectation that if you retired in year four of four that your seat would not be replaced by the sitting president, but that is clearly what would have occurred anyway. I'm pretty sure that most of the calls for her to retire were during Obama's first two years, since the Dems had just seized back power and they had an opportunity to lock in that seat. We didn't have a lot of people seriously asking her to resign in the final 6 years.
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Sep 23, 2020 23:25
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:She handed the SC to the fascists for an entire generation out of pure ego, and people are still hero worshipping her. She was wealthy and powerful. Americans love a winner.
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Sep 23, 2020 23:28
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Dying inconveniently doesn't make someone a piece of poo poo. I mean come on. She had cancer multiple times and was over 80 years old. She knowingly chose to leave the future of the country to random chance rather than taking action to do the right thing while she had the opportunity. Now everyone in the country gets to deal with the fallout of her selfish bullshit, and nobody should be making excuses for it now more than ever. Classon Ave. Robot fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 23:31
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:She had cancer multiple times and was over 80 years old. She knowingly chose to leave the future of the country to random chance rather than taking action to do the right thing while she had a chance. Now everyone in the country gets to deal with the fallout of her selfish bullshit, and nobody should be making excuses for it now more than ever. Fascists and power-mongers running the country is not Ginsburg's fault; it's everyone elses. No institution can protect against the outcome of elections in perpetuity, and random chance is always in control; death can happen at any time. I agree that as a matter of political strategy, it would have been better for her to step down in a more favorable climate. However the leap from that to 'What a piece of poo poo!" is just loving absurd. Even if everything Ginsburg stood for gets torn down tomorrow, she still had a hugely positive impact on the lives of a lot of people over the course of her career. Ignoring that is pretty much a highly cynical 'But what have you done for me lately?' enterprise. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 23:43
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Rigel posted:I'm pretty sure that most of the calls for her to retire were during Obama's first two years, since the Dems had just seized back power and they had an opportunity to lock in that seat. We didn't have a lot of people seriously asking her to resign in the final 6 years. The first 6 years we had control of the Senate. It wasn't until 2014 and the tea fascists fiasco. But you are right..no one was calling for her to resign in 2012.
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Sep 23, 2020 23:45
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Doc Hawkins posted:She was wealthy and powerful. Americans love a winner. She was a champion for women's rights. When she graduated law school, there were firms that literally wouldn't hire her because she was a woman. No matter how you feel about her politics, she has earned her place in the history books as a champion of gender equality. She will always be an icon. At least for people who cares about feminism and gender equality.
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Sep 23, 2020 23:46
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sexpig by night posted:I mean I'd argue most of her political career indicates she's 'not fit' to represent anyone, but yes it's fair to question if someone almost 90 years old can handle a high stress job What’s stressful about her job? She’ll never have to worry about re-election and doesn’t seem to be seriously concerned about the state of the country at all.
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Sep 24, 2020 00:10
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OctaMurk posted:Dianne's like 87 and frail af in a job that theoretically is stressful. It is cruel to say it, but she may not live much longer to stop reform. No, the US unironically loves working people until the day they die even though that's idiotic and horrible. It to idiotic "how dare you be ageist" arguments from people who can't grasp how hosed up it is that people in the final years of their lives think "I need to keep working" or "gently caress I don't want to give up all this power I've accumulated and used to help myself and occasionally others." Bioshuffle posted:Her work ethic was nothing short of superhuman. She came to court a day after her husband passed away. She went to work wearing a fanny pack containing her chemo gear. The woman was a badass through and through and she never gave up, so yes. I would say it worked out great for her legacy. Oh hey look, it's the exact kind of insane mindset I was talking about. Going to work the day after your husband dies isn't a sign of a good work ethic, it's the sign of a profoundly hosed up mindset and culture. RBG refused to retire in no small part because she smugly believed nobody was good enough to take her place despite being a multiple cancer scare survivor. At best she thought she knew better than everyone else. At worst she was being exceptionally selfish and now everyone else has to pay the price.
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Sep 24, 2020 00:16
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Bioshuffle posted:I find this question particularly relevant, as RBG herself faced a lot of criticism from ageists who felt she should have retired during Obama's tenure as to secure a liberal spot. Obviously, she ignored them. Do you just completely lack the ability to properly identify "-ists" and "-isms" in people (real or fictional) that don't exist like five feet away from you? Either this is a completely insincere reading of that and you know it or the previous statement is true. I can't understand how you'd take that otherwise.
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Sep 24, 2020 00:48
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Ignoring that is pretty much a highly cynical 'But what have you done for me lately?' enterprise. Yo if you help build a school for kids in Guatemala and then burn it down with all the kids locked inside, the people who complain about that aren't asking "what have you done for me lately?". She wanted to have as long of an appointment as she possibly could have, people have linked the quote in this thread. She didn't give a poo poo about who she hurt by doing so.
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Sep 24, 2020 00:50
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“What have you done for me lately” is a question that should be constantly asked of anyone who holds power in our name.
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Sep 24, 2020 01:31
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Kazak_Hstan posted:“What have you done for me lately” is a question that should be constantly asked of anyone who holds power in our name. That's fair. But they don't become a piece of poo poo, totally ignoring everything they've accomplished, if the answer is 'not as much as they could.'
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Sep 24, 2020 01:38
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:That's fair. But they don't become a piece of poo poo, totally ignoring everything they've accomplished, if the answer is 'not as much as they could.' There's no fundamental difference between directly doing evil and allowing evil to perpetuate through inaction. Allowing all the terrible poo poo that is about to follow because you were too selfish to step down in a controlled situation when you're an octogenarian with a history of cancer... yeah that kind of makes you a piece of poo poo. You're gambling with other people's lives.
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Sep 24, 2020 02:55
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I think "she should have retired early in Obama's second term" is pretty ridiculous, it assumes she had reason to think the next Democratic nominee would lose, which wasn't really well supported at the time. Also we don't know exactly what prognosis she was dealing with afaik so maybe the smart money was on her living past Trump's presidency anyway.
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Sep 24, 2020 03:22
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:
MCconnell would not have allowed either Obama or Hillary to appoint her replacement regardless.
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Sep 24, 2020 03:24
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