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Maybe I missed it but has Joanne ever expressed any appreciation for sticking through it with her for as long as you had? I am not trying to be cruel but I think it would eat me up if I managed to get my sick loved one through the worst of it only to dissolve our relationship as soon as there was a semblance of normalcy. Did she ever thank you for not leaving her to die? Do you think she would have survived without you?
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Jan 10, 2014 18:36
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FunWithWombats posted:In the end, my faith left me feeling empty. While dealing with Joanne’s illness, I felt absolutely lost, alone, and without a clue about what to do. I always felt like this was when religion was supposed to shine, but instead, it left me feeling even more helpless, even guilty, that I maybe wasn’t doing enough. Firstly I don't want a religious debate either, I but I do want to say I really can relate to you here. For me, in the end, I can only assess my relationships on the give and take. What they bring to me and what I give in return, perhaps sometimes that is even a bit weird because I can get from giving. But I can only sum up my experience, see what is actually happening rather than playing some movie in my head about what I'd like to be happening (or wouldn't like) and make a decision about it from that. Relationships have an opportunity cost, other relationships. So if when I really need them someone isn't there, or it always seems to be a one-way street on the effort involved.. I need to spend that time trying to cultivate another relationship where I have an opportunity for the return I need rather than continually being frustrated here. That applies across the board, if it's God or even Joanne. Some people feel they get this return from their religion and if they honestly feel that, then I can't touch them because everything is only our perception of it in this world. What is going on in our own head is what is paramount to us. But for me, and it sounds like you, I didn't get back what I wanted to consider it something worth continuing to invest in.
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Jan 10, 2014 19:14
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greazeball posted:My question is this: how are you going to share this? You said yourself that there are just no resources for people in your situation and you've written some really moving and powerful stuff. I can understand not wanting to start a blog that you would have to maintain but please try and find somewhere to put it where it can be indexed properly and people who aren't browsing these forums will be able to find it. Marijuana posted:Are you Catholic? I was raised in the Church and I can remember that Catholics revere suffering because it brings you closer to Christ. I rejected Christianity long ago, partly because its answer to the question Why do bad things happen to good people? is Original Sin. Evil exists because humans are imperfect. But still, this answer doesn't do anything to make you feel better when bad poo poo does happen. Maksimus54 posted:Maybe I missed it but has Joanne ever expressed any appreciation for sticking through it with her for as long as you had? I am not trying to be cruel but I think it would eat me up if I managed to get my sick loved one through the worst of it only to dissolve our relationship as soon as there was a semblance of normalcy. That being said, it was complicated. During the bad times, she would twist it around in her head. She would reason that I was only staying with her because I liked to control her, or that I was just weak and just wanted to keep up appearances. This made it easier for her to justify hurting me. There certainly were times that were very thankless. Now, she definitely seems to appreciate what I've did for her, but she doesn't like to talk about it much. quote:Do you think she would have survived without you? 1. Sharon would have gotten a hold of her, convinced Joanne she would be too sick to do anything ever again, and basically lock her up as her little doll to live with her and bend to her will. 2. Joanne would have rebuked Sharon, ended up on the street, and done something dangerous that would most likely put her in a hospital and/or jail. Joanne has a severely mentally ill uncle who has refused treatment many times and lives on the street. Every once in awhile the family hears about when he gets picked up by the police for one thing or another. I don't know too many of the details, but I heard of one story where he convinced himself he was a successful millionaire and bought something like eight cars and a couple houses in one week via lots and lots of loans. Then, the bank figured it out and it was apparently a huge mess to sort out. He refuses help from the family. The state puts him in hospitals from time to time, but they can't keep him forever, and he always ends up giving up on his meds and back on the street. I've heard all sorts of horror stories about BP folks who ran off with people they met on the internet, got married several times over the course of weeks, got into drugs, got pregnant, etc. etc. When there's no support network, or a BP person refuses treatment, things can go really bad.
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Jan 10, 2014 20:13
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FunWithWombats posted:Now, she definitely seems to appreciate what I've did for her, but she doesn't like to talk about it much. I could see that. I imagine it would be very uncomfortable to have someone in your life who has devoted several years of their life to you, who clearly loves you and... you just don't anymore. As far as what to do with it, it seems like it should be on a blog somewhere. I'd say it should be a memoir or something but the sad ending might mean a tough go of getting someone to pay for it.
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Jan 10, 2014 20:43
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FunWithWombats posted:... The intent here is more to inform rather than criticize, but take this as you will. That view is a mix of a couple of extremely common apologetic arguments that almost anyone who has troubles with their faith will consider eventually. There's literally hundreds of years of history thinking about this kind of stuff. Leibniz's Best of All Possible Worlds has some direct application to what you're talking about, and he wrote that in the early 1700's, for example. There's all kinds of stuff out there to look up if you feel so inclined.
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Jan 10, 2014 21:20
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This was a really interesting read. Thanks for telling your story. Now that you are dating again, do you find yourself looking for characteristics that pre-BPD Joanne had? Someone completely different?
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Jan 10, 2014 22:38
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Would you ever consider getting back together with Joanne down the road?
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Jan 11, 2014 00:32
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Thanks for telling your story. I can't imagine being in your situation but it sounds like you handled it as best as anybody could. Actually, your understanding kind of blows me away; even if I were totally ready to separate I'd know I'd have a lot more bitterness built up than you seem to. Do you think you might ever consider counseling yourself in the aftermath of everything? You've had to deal with so much disillusion and loss I think it might be good to have someone to help you work things out moving forward.FunWithWombats posted:What will this mean for future relationships? How do you start over in your late 20s? Also, this is one thing I don't think you should worry about too much. Actually, while your other concerns about divorce were of course completely understandable, this sort of makes me laugh since most people I know don't get married until their late twenties or early thirties. That and saying you've already encountered a lot of divorcees in your age group makes me wonder if you live in a small town? In any case, you still have plenty of time left so don't go feeling like an old maid or damaged goods or whatever. I'd take some time to live a little carefreely the way you might have if you hadn't gotten married so early/had to deal with all this. Re: the title of divorcee weighing you down, I remember my mother urging an older cousin of mine when I was a kid to divorce early if she felt like she might need to because, in her words, it's better to be a divorcee in your twenties than your forties or fifties. In other words, you're young enough that I don't think most people would consider it a serious mark against you (not that people should consider it a mark ever, but well, you know). dazat fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 11, 2014 |
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Jan 11, 2014 02:49
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Yep, for sure. 20s man, you're still young and fit (or can be if you're not) and don't have a kid around your neck. Your career hasn't really started and done what careers do to people (generally make them pretty serious, they can burn you up or not.. but generally you become a bit more grim because work isn't like study). You made a call, to end it, and now you're in a different situation. Compared to not acting on your feelings or staying in a crouch position because you're scared of what else could be.. when you think about it like that.. you only had one choice.
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Jan 11, 2014 11:09
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slothzilla posted:Now that you are dating again, do you find yourself looking for characteristics that pre-BPD Joanne had? Someone completely different? Wojtek posted:Would you ever consider getting back together with Joanne down the road? I also had to make the decision that if anything bad happens to Joanne at this point, I'm not going to get involved. It'd just be way too easy to get sucked in. It's not an easy stance to take, but I have to look out for my own interests at some point. dazat posted:Thanks for telling your story. I can't imagine being in your situation but it sounds like you handled it as best as anybody could. Actually, your understanding kind of blows me away; even if I were totally ready to separate I'd know I'd have a lot more bitterness built up than you seem to. Do you think you might ever consider counseling yourself in the aftermath of everything? You've had to deal with so much disillusion and loss I think it might be good to have someone to help you work things out moving forward. quote:Also, this is one thing I don't think you should worry about too much. Actually, while your other concerns about divorce were of course completely understandable, this sort of makes me laugh since most people I know don't get married until their late twenties or early thirties. That and saying you've already encountered a lot of divorcees in your age group makes me wonder if you live in a small town? In any case, you still have plenty of time left so don't go feeling like an old maid or damaged goods or whatever. I'd take some time to live a little carefreely the way you might have if you hadn't gotten married so early/had to deal with all this. At this point though, I've found it's really not a big issue, I am still young, and most people aren't phased by it when I tell them I'm divorced, if it even comes up at all. Right now I'm just excited about the possibilities more than anything else. Having a plan and quote:Re: the title of divorcee weighing you down, I remember my mother urging an older cousin of mine when I was a kid to divorce early if she felt like she might need to because, in her words, it's better to be a divorcee in your twenties than your forties or fifties. In other words, you're young enough that I don't think most people would consider it a serious mark against you (not that people should consider it a mark ever, but well, you know).
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Jan 11, 2014 17:59
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Oh boy. I'm really glad you wrote about this. I've been dating a girl for 3 months that I found out has BP, and sometimes I worry. The relationship is still young, but I definitely notice how her mood changes day to day. I try to be supportive (going with her to support group, etc) but sometimes I question the longer term things in life. Finances, stability, etc. I really don't know where it's going but things seem OK so far, and I'm not one to throw something away that has been going well so far. It can be emotionally confusing  .
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Jan 12, 2014 00:09
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FunWithWombats posted:
Don't fret it, I mean the supposed loss of youth; you yourself talked about how society is pushing these expectations on us and the image of the carefree life of a twenty-something is very much one of them. Truth is, early twenties is just prolongued adolescence for most of us, at least until something occurs in our lives that forces us to take a stand and define who we are, and even if that happened to you sooner than you wanted to you dealt with it with great courage. As it is you have your best years ahead of you anyway so go out and enjoy life! And thank you for sharing your story, I mean that sincerely.
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Jan 12, 2014 00:09
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Another person with BPD chiming in. My mother is disturbingly like Sharon. I really enjoyed reading this account, although it was frightening at the same time. I have a lot in common with Joanne in some ways. I just had a manic episode and ended up cheating on my boyfriend of a year and a half for literally no reason. Now that I'm down, I feel absolutely destroyed that I would do something like that, especially so easily. How did Joanne handle her feelings about cheating on you? What made you stay with her in spite of her cheating on you?
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Jan 12, 2014 02:56
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I actually have questions about Joanne's perspective (despite the title of the thread, sorry!). You mentioned that she doesn't have many memories from her earlier 20s--but does she remember the kind of person that she used to be at all? Does she ever feel like it she was robbed of that identity because of her illness? I had a friend who I have known for years who, out of nowhere, was diagnosed with schizophrenia. I didn't get to see him for over a year while he was trying to figure out what worked for him, and I was in complete denial the whole time. I refused to believe that he was sick and thought that it was all a terrible mistake. It's a really sad thing to go through.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:35
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Fluorescent posted:I just had a manic episode and ended up cheating on my boyfriend of a year and a half for literally no reason. Now that I'm down, I feel absolutely destroyed that I would do something like that, especially so easily. How did Joanne handle her feelings about cheating on you? quote:What made you stay with her in spite of her cheating on you? 4R7 THi3F posted:I actually have questions about Joanne's perspective (despite the title of the thread, sorry!). You mentioned that she doesn't have many memories from her earlier 20s--but does she remember the kind of person that she used to be at all? quote:Does she ever feel like it she was robbed of that identity because of her illness? quote:I had a friend who I have known for years who, out of nowhere, was diagnosed with schizophrenia. I didn't get to see him for over a year while he was trying to figure out what worked for him, and I was in complete denial the whole time. I refused to believe that he was sick and thought that it was all a terrible mistake. It's a really sad thing to go through. Seeing Joanne actually act out her symptoms many times was really the only way I came to accept it.
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Jan 12, 2014 17:51
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FunWithWombats posted:The first time, she was sincerely apologetic, and there was an immediate change in her character that made it very clear that she had not been acting herself. However, that still didn't make it an easy situation, and it's going to be incredibly tough for both of you to get through. Was there a future time where she wasn't apologetic?
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Jan 12, 2014 19:54
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Thanks for the thread. I have rapid-cycling Bipolar, though it's been a part of me since i was a little kid so there wasn't a 'change' like some have in their 20's. I have a real hangup with control issues, I guess because I've never been in control of my mind and emotions that I need to hold on to something. And as long as I have a stable schedule I'm mostly okay. It's kind of like walking on thin ice. Wrong step and you fall through and it gets so exhausting having to be on constant vigilance. You and others here touched upon it but the isolation can be overwhelming. In my mind that's probably just as bad as the disease for me. I don't blame people for not knowing what to do but it's caused most of my friends to distance themselves from me.
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Jan 12, 2014 22:23
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FunWithWombats posted:Yeah, like I talked about, this was very much my family's initial reaction to Joanne's illness. Many of her friends reacted the same way. In my early posts I talked about how hard it is to accept the fact that someone you've known for a long time and cared about has had a sudden, permanent change in their health, personality, and/or well-being. You know that person, you never saw them act sick, and there's no way they could hide such a debilitating illness. Clearly everyone else is mistaken. Do you have any advice for how to handle a friendship with someone who is mentally ill? Going back to what you said in one of your earlier posts, people will always have it in the back of their head that the person is mentally ill. It's really hard to act normal when you have this on your mind. I haven't seen my friend in a while, because I was busy (I also work full-time and go to school full-time!) and needed some time to process the information. I just felt like I didn't really know what to say or how to act around him. He was telling me stories about how he would see monsters/creatures just roaming around in the street, and that before he realized he was sick, he would try to fight them. The whole thing is just so completely foreign to me, and the last thing I want to do is set off a new episode. (Even though that's probably not how it works, but I have a warped sense of reality sometimes)
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Jan 12, 2014 23:31
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Wouldn't you just try to be compassionate? Like 'holy poo poo man, that sounds hosed up. How do you deal with that? What's it's like?'.. people are generally put at ease when talking about themselves and you are appearing to listen and be genuinely interested. That's what I'd want from my friend. Eventually you can move to 'Is there anything I can do to help?' just making the point that you're on his team. If you really care about him then that's what you show him and it should make him feel like there are still at least some people still in his corner. If he is rational enough to do that, if he is totally manic then it would be very hard in interact with him at all and I would assume you regress to an almost childlike state, like OP had to do with Joanne, where you care for them but you're not interacting as equals.
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Jan 12, 2014 23:52
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Tony Montana posted:Wouldn't you just try to be compassionate? Like 'holy poo poo man, that sounds hosed up. How do you deal with that? What's it's like?'.. people are generally put at ease when talking about themselves and you are appearing to listen and be genuinely interested. That's what I'd want from my friend. Eventually you can move to 'Is there anything I can do to help?' just making the point that you're on his team. Right, I did all that, but the interaction was incredibly stressful (on my end) because I wasn't really sure if I was saying/doing the right things. I had no understanding of what set off his suicidal/violent episodes (he's schizophrenic, not bipolar. not that schizophrenia is innately violent/suicidal, but that's what happened during his bad eps), and honestly, I was a bit afraid to ask. It was a lot to take in and process. I feel like I could have done a lot better, but I really don't know what I would have changed. It's just so sad, because I always saw him as such as vivacious, funny and outgoing person and now all I see is an unhappy person trying his hardest to keep it all together.
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Jan 13, 2014 00:35
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All I can say to that is he's probably feeling worse about how the interaction went than you are. He's the one losing his mind and he probably feels he somehow hosed it up again and even with you, his good friend, he can't hold it together enough for a chat. I have no real experience here, so others may correct me, but I would just say persist. Unless you're actually in danger here. Persisting will be hard (as we've read about from the OP) and worse when he got to the 'end' of it and Joanne was changed, what they had was killed.
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Jan 13, 2014 00:50
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Tony Montana posted:All I can say to that is he's probably feeling worse about how the interaction went than you are. He's the one losing his mind and he probably feels he somehow hosed it up again and even with you, his good friend, he can't hold it together enough for a chat. Yeah, so many people don't have someone as caring and loyal as the OP, making mental illness incredibly lonely and depressing. Even if he was out of it and didn't remember the exact conversation, he will definitely notice people pulling away over time and inevitably blame himself. Being mentally ill is depressing and overwhelming: you feel out of control of your life; your entire life trajectory has changed; you're probably pretty miserable; and, on top of that, everyone is avoiding you. If you know someone who is mentally ill, it's difficult to sit with your own discomfort and uncertainty and avoiding them can help you avoid those feelings. But even being a physical presence that shows the other person that they are not entirely alone is truly meaningful. My experience is that many people think they have to "fix" the illness and make everything better, then get upset when their efforts don't work. They might be very supportive at first but quickly give up and feel resentful of the person with the illness. I think it's a destructive mindset. You need to set boundaries to make sure you are taking care of yourself as you offer what support you can give. Even if it's watching a movie with the person or reading a memoir on their mental illness and telling them about it, it shows you care. I know it's easier said than done, especially if you guys have already drifted apart after a while of awkwardness. Personally I think it would be worthwhile but everyone has different priorities. OP, I think you made a great thread. Joanne is incredibly lucky to have had someone as grounded and loving as you to support her. What happened is still tragic but it's clear that, left with just Sharon and the rest of her family, Joanne never would have come as far as she has. So many people in your situation would not have supported their spouses and, while there's no right or wrong answer about whether you should have stayed, I'm really glad you did and I'm sure Joanne is as well. Your story makes me sad that there is not more support for caregivers or more information for friends and family of those with mental illness. On the one hand, I know how limited the resources are for mental health and I can understand that organizations are protective of the funding they have. However, recovery always happens in the context of a family and a community, so failing to help everyone will ultimately hurt the suffering person even more. What you've shared really highlights how much of a difference one caring person can make but also the burden that you disproportionately had to assume because our society is not ready to help. I wish that both you and Joanne had more support during that time and am really amazed by how well you did. Thanks again.
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Jan 13, 2014 07:24
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Skeesix posted:Was there a future time where she wasn't apologetic? Part of the reason it didn't work, in the end, is it's hard to be around someone who you know you've hurt that much. Carrying around that much guilt for that long - even if you've been forgiven - will eat away at you as time goes on. So yeah, Joanne felt guilty, and that's a tough thing to live with and constantly be reminded of. Rickycat posted:Thanks for the thread. I have rapid-cycling Bipolar, though it's been a part of me since i was a little kid so there wasn't a 'change' like some have in their 20's. I have a real hangup with control issues, I guess because I've never been in control of my mind and emotions that I need to hold on to something. And as long as I have a stable schedule I'm mostly okay. It's kind of like walking on thin ice. Wrong step and you fall through and it gets so exhausting having to be on constant vigilance. quote:You and others here touched upon it but the isolation can be overwhelming. In my mind that's probably just as bad as the disease for me. I don't blame people for not knowing what to do but it's caused most of my friends to distance themselves from me. 4R7 THi3F posted:Do you have any advice for how to handle a friendship with someone who is mentally ill? Going back to what you said in one of your earlier posts, people will always have it in the back of their head that the person is mentally ill. It's really hard to act normal when you have this on your mind. quote:I haven't seen my friend in a while, because I was busy (I also work full-time and go to school full-time!) and needed some time to process the information. I just felt like I didn't really know what to say or how to act around him. He was telling me stories about how he would see monsters/creatures just roaming around in the street, and that before he realized he was sick, he would try to fight them. The whole thing is just so completely foreign to me, and the last thing I want to do is set off a new episode. (Even though that's probably not how it works, but I have a warped sense of reality sometimes) As another poster mentioned, it's probably been ten times as awkward for him. He's probably worried about getting his life back on track, and being "normal," so the best thing you can do for him is make things seem as normal as possible. And keep in mind that he might be acting odd and quirky or whatever from time-to-time, and just roll with it as best you can. There's no need to treat him like an ill person all the time, but if he does something odd, your best bet is probably just to try and ignore it and recognize that he's probably not going to be 100% there right after being diagnosed. Just do your best and he'll appreciate it.
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Jan 13, 2014 17:56
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OP, I like what you've said, especially here at the end about the guilt of ''forgiven'' indiscretions poisoning relationships. I wanted to comment though that you mentioned a few times talking to counselors yourself, who told you that you didn't seem to need any help keeping emotionally stable. Does this not seem like an inappropriate reaction? I mean, you were experiencing high stress and they were trained in the issues you were dealing with (even if they weren't issues you were suffering from yourself). I maybe would've expected them to offer to meet with you monthly or a few times a year, but not to suggest that you didn't seem to need their services at all. And I know you don't want to give revealing clues about yourself, but your grad degree had nothing to do with psychology?
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Jan 14, 2014 20:33
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yeah, what did you do at school, OP? Sounds like you'll be making decent bank, I'm just interested to know as it gives perspective to the workload you shouldered during all the bullshit.
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Jan 14, 2014 21:13
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I clicked on Ask/Tell forum a couple nights ago, thinking "gently caress it. I never read this forum. Why not," and then proceeded to power through this thread  Holy poo poo, dude. You're a saint, and this is a really interesting thread. I was actually pretty close to picking Psych as my major last semester because the Abnormal side of psychology. This stuff is extremely interesting to read and learn about. Props to you for being a good storyteller as well. I'm kind of confused, though, by your stories and others' in here. Do people with Bipolar willingly act on their obsessions, such as cheating and destroying things, or is it out of their control entirely? I'm just thinking about OCD, where the afflicted would have obsessions, but usually never actually carry the action out. Also, how's your social life, outside of dating?
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Jan 14, 2014 21:49
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Grump posted:I clicked on Ask/Tell forum a couple nights ago, thinking "gently caress it. I never read this forum. Why not," and then proceeded to power through this thread I've got chronic depression, not bipolar, but I can definitely say that I don't want to be sad. I don't want to cry. I don't want to lay in bed all day and do nothing but if I don't heed my own warnings and triggers it will happen no matter what. It's not like "oh my brain wants me to go cry in a corner, lets ignore it" its like "Nope waterworks are happening right now. Can't do anything about it" Chronic depression and bipolar are chemically closely related and frequently treated with the same medications so I could see it being out of their control as well.
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Jan 14, 2014 21:59
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Tigntink posted:I've got chronic depression, not bipolar, but I can definitely say that I don't want to be sad. I don't want to cry. I don't want to lay in bed all day and do nothing but if I don't heed my own warnings and triggers it will happen no matter what. It's not like "oh my brain wants me to go cry in a corner, lets ignore it" its like "Nope waterworks are happening right now. Can't do anything about it" I'm in the same boat and I want to add that, at least with severe chronic depression, there are times where you just get to a point where you say gently caress it and engage in destructive behavior because you simply don't care anymore. Is that "willing," as the other poster asked? That's a tough question to answer for me. It's knowing, but certainly not rational, though at the time that doesn't matter, because you can rationalize all kinds of poo poo when you're not right. It sounds like Joanne did a lot of that.
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Jan 14, 2014 22:14
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This might sound crass, but I think the closest thing a 'normal' person could come to relating to something like that (loss of control) is acting unlike your normal self when you're drunk. You might do or say something you normally wouldn't and regret it the next day. When you've been drinking, you accept it as just something you did because of the lowered inhibitions and it often wasn't the first time and probably won't be the last time and it's not that bad usually (even though you might feel ashamed and be really sorry) because there's a clear cause and effect: you were drunk, therefor your inhibitions were lowered, which led to you spending all that money on cocktails even though you had planned only to have a few beers and go home early. It's a risk you take knowingly and as such, the loss of control is of a whole different nature. Now imagine that happening without a clear, avoidable cause and that it's only a matter of time before it happens again. Also, it isn't just one night but a whole stretch of time. Also, it's not just lowered inhibitions but you could turn into an angry drunk, a sad drunk, a happy drunk or a weird combination of these. Also, it's something you're probably going to have to live with the rest of your life and it affects your loved ones profoundly. OP, this thread was a great read and the more I read, to more I feared she had ended it in a different way. I'm glad she didn't and I wish both of you the best of luck in the future.
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Jan 14, 2014 22:31
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Mortley posted:I wanted to comment though that you mentioned a few times talking to counselors yourself, who told you that you didn't seem to need any help keeping emotionally stable. Does this not seem like an inappropriate reaction? I mean, you were experiencing high stress and they were trained in the issues you were dealing with (even if they weren't issues you were suffering from yourself). quote:And I know you don't want to give revealing clues about yourself, but your grad degree had nothing to do with psychology? Tony Montana posted:yeah, what did you do at school, OP? Sounds like you'll be making decent bank, I'm just interested to know as it gives perspective to the workload you shouldered during all the bullshit. Grump posted:I clicked on Ask/Tell forum a couple nights ago, thinking "gently caress it. I never read this forum. Why not," and then proceeded to power through this thread quote:I'm kind of confused, though, by your stories and others' in here. Do people with Bipolar willingly act on their obsessions, such as cheating and destroying things, or is it out of their control entirely? I'm just thinking about OCD, where the afflicted would have obsessions, but usually never actually carry the action out. Then, there are times where things get more intense, like when I talked about Joanne's trip to the guitar store. There, she really had no reason to want or need a mandolin. She never had a prior urge to play one. It was just a totally nonsensical impulse that struck her, and in that moment was incredibly important to her. And then there are full-blown breaks from reality: psychosis. Usually psychotic mania is what puts BP patients in the hospital for the first time. Many BP folks don't go have a full blown incident again after they start treatment. IRQ posted:It's knowing, but certainly not rational, though at the time that doesn't matter, because you can rationalize all kinds of poo poo when you're not right. You'll find conflicting things written about this. I've read people claiming that BP people are always in control, and therefore always to blame for everything they do... and that's really not true. I think people are confused because BP can play out in a lot of different ways, but yes, sometimes there are total breaks from reality. It's not just a impulse control thing, it's that the entire way you're perceiving the world is skewed, potentially to the point where it's illogical and broken. And again, I'll emphasize that the severity of such things varies from time to time and from person to person. quote:Also, how's your social life, outside of dating? When I was with Joanne, social situations could get awkward sometimes if she was mad or didn't want to interact with people and whatnot, but I mostly was able to maintain my friendships. I tried to have couple friends with her, but that wasn't always the easiest; Joanne went through phases where she didn't want to see them or hang out with me and them or whatever, and that'll wear out any relationship. My friends really didn't know about Joanne's illness, so there were always things I couldn't talk to people about. I can't really say if that was the healthiest thing, but having everyone be in my business and judging Joanne or whatever wouldn't be ideal either.
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Jan 14, 2014 22:55
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FunWithWombats posted:I'm finishing up a science PhD this semester. Heavy poo poo, mate. Even more kudos than before 
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Jan 14, 2014 22:57
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Tigntink posted:I've got chronic depression, not bipolar, but I can definitely say that I don't want to be sad. I don't want to cry. I don't want to lay in bed all day and do nothing but if I don't heed my own warnings and triggers it will happen no matter what. It's not like "oh my brain wants me to go cry in a corner, lets ignore it" its like "Nope waterworks are happening right now. Can't do anything about it" I'm another one with the lovely mix of severe chronic depression & anxiety. Somehow I've stayed married for 32 years. I've never cheated, nor wanted to; and God is one helluva lot smarter than me because we have no children. How do you deal with a sick person? The same way you would if they had a broken leg. Hang with the friend. Even if all you do is watch stupid TV shows and throw socks at the screen all day, or just talk about the day you saw that guy get hit by the truck. Soemtimes the best thing to do is to let them just ramble along, even if all they talk about is how much their life sucks. Any interaction with another human is imperative. Otherwise the isolation, loneliness and depression become overwhelming and morph into pure despair. That's when things go from unpleasant to scary as hell. Treat us like you would any other friend. It's not like mental illness is contagious, despite what stickers and t-shirts say.
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Jan 16, 2014 03:57
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Grump posted:I'm kind of confused, though, by your stories and others' in here. Do people with Bipolar willingly act on their obsessions, such as cheating and destroying things, or is it out of their control entirely? I'm just thinking about OCD, where the afflicted would have obsessions, but usually never actually carry the action out. Person with bipolar I checking in here. I can speak a little bit about that. You change when you go manic. I find that I like completely different things, try to accomplish completely different goals, I become motivated by intense childish desires, etc. I tend to think with my emotions rather than logic when I'm having an episode, which totally dominates my decision-making process. It's also very weird because I'm normally a very rational, logic-driven person. My ability to reason things through is impaired, and I end up making a lot of incorrect assumptions, sometimes ending up with complete delusions (ex: "my mother is trying to poison me because this one website says POTS can be caused by arsenic"). To be more specific about why someone would cheat because of their illness - I tend to have bad paranoia in my episodes so when I cheated, it was a defense mechanism. I became paranoid my boyfriend was cheating on me, to the point where it seemed like a sure thing, and so I cheated on him to punish him and so I could feel like I had power. Then I came down from the episode, realized my "evidence" made no sense and was beyond tenuous, couldn't understand my obsession with having "power", and now I feel horribly guilty. I'm not even a vengeful person so even if it were true he was cheating I wouldn't stand behind that course of action normally. So to sum it up, it all makes sense in the episode. It seems like something you want to do at the time. It's a frightening loss of control of the worst kind - you actually want to do the things that run counter to your character whenever you're manic. So yes, it's both willing and both out of control at the same time. When I didn't know I was bipolar, I would come out of manias completely unsure of who I was anymore. During the episodes, I would do things that I thought were the opposite of my values; I would act out of control and crazy. It would feel like I was that kind of desperate, angry person. It's hard to figure out just what is the illness and what is the person underneath it sometimes, because mood episodes tend to be subtle in their coming to the point where it feels like you're just living another day when in reality you're in a manic episode. There's also days where you're a little down or a little up or a mix of the two which add to the confusion. Fluorescent fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 14:42
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Thanks for this thread, OP. I am diagnosed bipolar, but no longer on meds because we're dirt goddamn poor and insuranceless. I think my husband's bipolar, too. He also has a fear of doctors/hospitals, refuses to see any and does not believe he has a problem. I know I'm crazy. He knows I'm crazy. It's one thing for him to get upset at me for things I do do, but more recently there are times he accuses me of doing things I haven't done, and denying things he's done, and throwing it back in my face as my bipolar being the issue. It's really difficult for me to deal with him tearing me down during his episodes. When he screams at me, while I'm sobbing at the foot of the bed, that I act like I am an equal to him, and then he turns around a few days later during another argument and says he never said it. I'll express how proud I am for how hard he works (I'm a stay-at-home mom of our almost-3-year-old) to support us all the time. I try to give him encouragement every day. But he never hears it. It's like he's deaf to it. When he slips into his moods, he only sees the negative. It's never the positive. I can defend myself until I'm blue in the face and sobbing my heart out; he'll keep insisting that it's all in my head because of my bipolar, and I KNOW it's not. I might be crazy, but I know I'm not this time. It doesn't matter how many details I have. I'm the crazy one - the diagnosed crazy one, who isn't on meds anymore. I feel so trapped when he gets like this. He's so blinded by his illness and fears. I try to approach him how I would approach myself. I always forgive his hurtful words (accusing me of being a pill-popper, of degrading him, of acting like I work harder than him, when I never do these things,) despite how hard they truly damage me, because there are glimmers of the man I married still in there somewhere, and I know there's still some of the woman he married left in me. Those bits are just buried underneath a massive pile of poo poo and held together by the hope that things will eventually get better. But there's no getting through to him about his illness. I wish I could. After his episodes, he just turns to his Bible and brushes it off and I wait for the next one.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:02
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deadly claris, I can't speak to your entire situation, but you definitely need to make sure you're getting help for yourself, since you know you need it. Are you in the US? If so, go to healthcare.gov and find out what you qualify for; if your income is low, you will pay little to nothing. Your city and state will also have resources. When Joanne first got sick, the crappy insurance we had did not cover anything. Instead, we were able to go to a city-sponsored clinic. It cost us about $4 a visit to see a doctor, and that was some of the best treatment Joanne ever received. Then, we contacted the drug companies directly and were able to get all of Joanne's prescriptions for basically nothing. You're not going to be able to solve any problems in your life if you're not stable. Get yourself stable, and if your husband is truly having issues of his own (which it sounds like he is, BP or otherwise), try your best. If it becomes dangerous, you need to give him an ultimatum about getting treatment and/or just leave and immediately seek a shelter for you and your child. First though, you really have to get help for yourself ASAP. I guarantee there are resources out there for you, and you simply cannot go through life without treatment. FunWithWombats fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 00:09
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When I was on medication, it wasn't covered by any government programs or anything, so we had to pay out of pocket. My doctor left for another place, so when our insurance from my husband's job kicks in, I have to shop around for another one. It's a huge can of worms because of his fear issues with doctors. Every time I bring it up, he pretty much has a mental breakdown. I know I have to take care of myself, and I fully intend to, I just need to wait for this insurance. 
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Jan 17, 2014 00:18
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If you live anywhere near a major med school they almost certainly have something you can take advantage of. A not terribly experienced doctor is better than nothing.
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Jan 17, 2014 02:22
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deadly claris posted:When I was on medication, it wasn't covered by any government programs or anything, so we had to pay out of pocket. My doctor left for another place, so when our insurance from my husband's job kicks in, I have to shop around for another one. It's a huge can of worms because of his fear issues with doctors. Every time I bring it up, he pretty much has a mental breakdown. I know I have to take care of myself, and I fully intend to, I just need to wait for this insurance. You don't need to wait for insurance to get help. Just call the local government funded mental health center (don't be scared away by the name) and ask to speak with somebody. I've never been diagnosed with any mental illness but I was feeling depressed about a year ago and googled something like "therapy low income *my city*" and called the first number I found. They asked me some questions over the phone and scheduled me a free appointment. After that I ended up getting weekly sessions for something ridiculous like 10 dollars per hour-long session. What's the worst that could happen? You call, explain your situation, and they quote a price that's too high and you say no.
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Jan 17, 2014 04:19
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You can also search "community mental health [county/city/state]" to see if there's something available to you. I'm low income and uninsured and I go to a public clinic for weekly therapy (free) and I have access to a psych nurse at least annually or more often if I need it (also free). They set me up on prescription assistance programs and I pay exactly $0 for my medication, which would be ~$400/mo without insurance. There are resources available, and I hope you can seek them out in your area.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:18
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Like others, I must say this was a powerful thread. I sat down during my lunch break and read the entire thing without flinching. Out of curiosity of have a few questions too. 1) I know that morphing to a caregiver for years must have been super stressful and her accusations of you being "too controlling" hurtful. But do you find yourself too controlling at times nowadays? Has it fundamentally changed you into a controlling person since you were responsible for her for so long? 2) How did you manage the finances during the times after the hospitalization? Like the day to day stuff. How were you able to manage two people on an income barely designed for one? 3) Are the divorce terms amicable? Are you still partially financially responsible for her? Sorry if these questions seem invasive. Just thinking you had heroic budgeting skills to keep a roof over your head & food on the table when you were being stretched so thin.
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Jan 17, 2014 22:55
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