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Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Varinn posted:

Anyway, continuing the discussion from the last thread, I just don't think the first tier fits at ALL tonally with the rest of the game. Having crude scifi machinery and camping equipment or SOMETHING would feel so much more in line with the rest of the game than Literal Minecraft Progression.

Well, Tiy thinks it does and said so much in the last thread. :v:

The general idea across all the races is that you are more or less hosed when you start the game. You are some kind of outcast or on the run, the ship you are on may not even be your own or you might be the last surviving crew member. I've only heard snippits from the other races, but it is more or less sounds the same and I know that the Glitch's explanation is that you became self aware and broke off your race's hivemind, you had to get the gently caress off the planet or probably face death. You start off on a shift dead adrift in space with no fuel, and what looks like what you have found in an emergency supplies locker. Crude tools are just that, stuff you scrounge to get yourself going, because you have nothing, hell even your more advanced tech as you start going in that direction comes from the wreckage of a UFO you destroy. You are not a grand space adventurer, you did not come prepared, you are just trying to survive. That is how you start off.

Tiyuri posted:

You'll be able to later in the game, this beta only really contains tiers 1 - 3 of 10, the other 10 are there in part but smooshed together with broken progression, just for people to mess around in whilst we finish them up. The idea here is to see your player advance from being stranded with 0 resources to developing sci-fi tech. Much of the sci-fi stuff is in the later tiers.

I mean, if you still hate the chosen theme of the beginning of the game that much, you could just edit the game files and replace the early stage stuff with more techy equivalents, but what you are asking for doesn't make sense in the context of being "stranded with zero resources" and it is just mind boggling to indicate otherwise. :psyduck:

Clocks posted:

Well, that's the thing though.

I haven't read up on the backstory, but presumably you are either escaping / a stowaway / setting out on this tiny rear end ship to god knows where. The only things you have with you are this matter manipulator you find, a weapon, and some seeds. The 3D printer isn't loaded with any useful things you could create and you didn't bring any tech with you. It makes sense that the matter manipulator you have now might not be some super duper high tech one from back home or whatever. Even more, it's easier to use technology when you already have it than when you have to make it. I know how to use a flashlight, but I sure as hell don't know how to build one. So starting out with more basic tools and eventually working your way up works even in a lore/immersion sense.

So the complaints seem to be -- we have to use pickaxes! To mine ore! Why can't it be more scif-fi!

I mean, I guess whatever floats your boat. I don't mind the standard progression and Tiy has made it clear higher tiers (that are not currently implemented) will have cooler sci-fi stuff. Hell, aren't guns technically tier 2 or tier 3? That's not very far removed from the beginning.

See, this guy gets it.

Varinn posted:

The ~story justification~ doesn't matter, because you can change it to justify ANYTHING, it's about the gameplay. You mention that the sci-fi stuff 'comes later on', but why shouldn't the sci-fi stuff be in the sci-fi game from the get-go?

Again, before someone thinks I'm arguing against progression, I'm not. I want Sci-Fi Progression instead of a weird Pseudo-Terriarcraft Progression before the real one starts.

Because you were stranded without any resources? I mean, you say the story justification doesn't matter, but it kind of does?

Varinn posted:

It's already in my hands! It's called the Matter Manipulator, and I shouldn't have to set it down for anything made of stone, copper, or iron imo.


edit: But honestly, this is against the point. I'm not a starbound dev, I'm giving my Beta Impressions as a Beta Tester.

See now, I wonder if this is the main issue. I don't see the Matter Manipulator as a deconstruction tool as much as a building tool. It reminds me of how Gmod's Physgun works, being able to pick up and manipulate matter. I see it as a general purpose tool used to do things when you don't have the right tool to do the job. Maybe that is where things are going off? Some people see the MatMan to be an all in one super tool while others see it as the build tool? I mean, since the first time we saw the tool, it was used for building stuff, so it never came to mine that this thing should instantly dice up trees and plow through the earth.

I also don't understand how you would just upgrade something like that without acquiring the technology needed to do the manufacturing. With "caveman" tier tools and workstations, it makes sense. That is all stuff you could reasonably put together by hand, and it is with those handmade tools that will give you the ability to eventually give you the infrastructure to make high tech gizmos on your own.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Dec 6, 2013

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Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Varinn posted:

I'm saying that as someone who avoided Starbound news until right when I downloaded it and launched it, that the entire first five minutes feels like a rug dropping down on you. The new player experience is that, yes, you get the little blurb in the beginning about how you're a survivor/outcast/whatever, but the first thing you do is get your matter manipulator from your spaceship locker and use your teleporter to beam down! This is hype! This feels rad!

And then I have to make a crafting table, a pickaxe and an axe, and then I put away my scifi omnitool for the foreseeable future, make a terraria house, and it's super depressing.

This all sounds like I'm super critical of the game, I'm not! I really love this game so far, and exploring and stuff is super fun, and the tiers PAST that are fun and show massive promise. It's just that the first tier is not providing a good new player experience at all, and getting this feedback is the ENTIRE point of a beta.

Part of this is that the main storyline isn't actually implemented, which includes animated sequences that will show you just how bad off you really are. I agree with canepazzo that maybe the ship should be broken more than just "out of fuel". The MatMan seems to be something like the future version of a swissarmy knife. A standard small tool that you'd find in a locker on a ship or find on your average person, and not so much as some mind blowing amazing tech. I really do not see the the first part of the game as a "stepping down". I see it as a looking up. You have nothing, but you have aspiration and determination, to reach into the stars, you've made it this far and you are not going to let a broken down ship stop you so you are going to figure out what needs to be done in order to get things back up again. It is a very Cast Away feel, being forced to make do with the tools on hand to survive until you can get a raft built to try and see if you can make it across the ocean. :P

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Varinn posted:

Because there are better ways to implement that survival? You aren't actually reading the points here.

Maybe, but the type of examples you give are all "Came more or less prepared, I even got my tent packed up! :haw:" when the game portrays it as "I don't know what the hell I am doing my ship is out of fuel and I'm going to starve to death. :stare:".

Enzer fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Dec 6, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Kyrosiris posted:

Exactly. It feels like the 22nd-century version of "oh god my jeep is out of gas and all I have is a swiss army knife, I'm so hosed".

Somfin posted:

Or possibly, 'my plane went down in the middle of Canada and all I have is this hatchet.'

Yes! That is more or less what I get that they are trying do to here. And in the grandscale of things, knowing that you started off as this loser in a broken down ship that almost died of starvation, craweled your way back to being able to survive, to get your ship running, to exploring ruins and other civilizations and planets and the rest of the loving cosmos and eventually learning how to develop stuff that makes you into a techno god is kind of great.

I'm actually really surprised that the people who are having issues about having to use pickaxes for three of eleven tiers of tech are not also upset that the starting Legendaries are loving made of magic. :v:

Varinn posted:

A public beta is for giving impressions of how the game plays and feels, y'all. You can relax, I'm sure the starbound devs can handle feedback about stuff without a bunch of people reciting lore entries.
Oh come off it. :rolleyes: You are saying that you don't like what basically comes down to aesthetics and the game gives you a reason and you hand wave that and say it doesn't matter, you're impression on how the game should be should matter, not the game's story or reason for doing the things it does. To give a really lovely analogy, it would be like playing one of the recent batman games and complaining that why doesn't batman just shoot the criminally insane crime bosses that keep breaking out. :v: Story and setting have an importance, and apparently Starbound has an unimplemented main quest line so it is actually of importance to this game compared to say Terraria or Minecraft where there is no story or reason for things being the way they are.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

DarkAvenger211 posted:

So is there any real benefit to setting up a cool base aside from making a nice looking place. It seems like I'm never on a planet long enough to warrant spending time on setting up a cool base.

To store all the poo poo you'll eventually find yourself looting and hoarding, of course!

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Feenix posted:

Holy gently caress. You can! But since it's not a tool MADE for that, it's not the most efficient way.

Jesus Christ some of these complaints are bordering on the dense at this point.

This is tantamount to crash landing on
a planet with pistol and wondering why you'd still need to craft a sledgehammer instead of shooting tiny bullets at a brick wall to bust through.

But no one is stopping you from using the slow rear end matter manipulator to Dig and Chop if you so desire.

And in fact in the full release of the game, you can even upgrade to scifi stuff like the MM if you don't want to touch those dirty caveman tools, it just isn't available in this stage of the beta. :v:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Tengames posted:

jesus christ you guys are so goddamn loving quick to defend the goddamn ~story~, that god forbid your loving item that relocates matter with energy beams might be a bit more practical then smacking a tree with a blunt stone ax, and that they not have to wait for multiple teirs for it.

It isn't so much the story in the case. The tool is literately designed for building, it isn't a mining laser, it isn't a sci-fi axe. It is designed for putting up walls and moving furniture. You are saying "away with the designed progression of the game, I do not like that my game has pickaxes, that is caveman technology despite being used in modern times when we've achieved space flight. My building tool should also do everything ever." Game includes multiple tools, they start primitive and eventual get upgraded into crazy high tech stuff, that is this game's thing.

Why are you not also making the complaint that you are using "caveman tech" bows for hunting and not a techbow that shoots lasers, or complaining that you can find swords and hammers that shoot magic or giant skulls or bones that explode into more bones, that is anything but sci-fi.

What a lot of us are saying is that it seems silly that you want them to uproot the entire style of progression they have set up, throw out all the assets and code and completely replace it into a single tool because you just happen to find one in a locker on your ship because you don't like pickaxes because its been done before. It sounds stupid to some of us.

I mean, hell, they can easily solve this by saying that the MM is broken and is almost nonfunctional, that way your future upgrades to it would be more in terms of repairing functionality and they wouldn't have to destroy a ton of work to do so.

Honestly, I don't even like the ideas of "jack of all trade" tools after playing end game Terraria. That poo poo was stupid because you were constantly exploding your house, the ground and the background layers every time you misclicked. Separate tools are nice since they are easier to control. :v:

Enzer fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Dec 6, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Fair to Midland posted:

What's the max per server? I haven't researched this game much.

I think I remember the dev's said that there was no cap and it is more of a "whatever the server can handle" deal.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Seriously why can't we just have both? Maybe compromise and say Mater Manipulators are faster but Picks and Axes cover more area? That way we can just have our manipulators if we want and there's still a reason to have a Pick for big projects and poo poo.

I think it is more an issue that picks get replaced outright after the first 3 tiers with sci-fi poo poo like a mining laser or something. Rereading Tiy's post, he doesn't mention that the MM gets upgrade, just that the tools you use get replaced when you get to the point you can make them. So the issue I am having is that I'd rather have the separate tools to see how they can become more interesting in their own right then just having slightly faster versions of the MM. I mean, I would rather have a hitscan style mining laser than a MM that breaks stuff down faster, but still has its built in limitation of how far out it can manipulate for balance reasons. They have all this stuff already ready, just seems silly to throw out out all now. :shobon:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Zereth posted:


Why are these not growing? am I doing something wrong?

What plant is that? Some people are reporting that there are a few (carrots, nanomelons and like, one or two others) that are not growing.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I've gotten both carrots and nanomelons to grow on my spaceship.

You can grow crops inside your ship? :aaaaa:

Now I really want the bigger ships, going to have a hydroponics section. :dance:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
Are those humans? They look like Florans wearing cowls.


Varinn posted:

Torches, I guess? They'll keep you warm too.


edit: ahahaaha incredible

Ahahahaha, holy poo poo. The arguments were kind of stupid but I didn't think someone would get that pissed off about it to do that, goddamn.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Agent Kool-Aid posted:

I know it's not way too hard to get a lot of bandages! I even have like 50 on my character at the moment. It's just that...natural regen is a really small thing that would make a lot of poo poo more tolerable especially for new players so you're not forced to run around with basically no health forever in the event you don't have any healing items on you.

Tonight's patch should help a little bit. They are making it so that bandages are made straight out of plant fiber, so you don't need to craft fabric for them. Not a perfect solution, but it helps. I do think that stim packs should at least give you a small heal burst and then activate regeneration.

greatBigJerk posted:

Caveman tier is such a slog, and it seems super weird to have to do it when you have a fully functioning ship to start off with.

It would make WAY more sense if you crash land on your first planet, and have to work to get your ship working again.

Having more intermediary tiers in the caveman phase would help make things more interesting. Sort of like how Minecraft has wood before stone. It would also help if digging didn't take forever.

It's a really good start though!

I think when they get the rest of the tiers, tech and story in place it wont be an issue at all, I think it just really stands out because that is the extent of what we are able to make in terms of mining tools and such.

Next patch increases mining speeds, so that might help as well.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Miijhal posted:

I'm enjoying the game a lot but I kinda feel like the progression is broken. The reward for beating the first boss is the ability to make an crafting station that lets you make gear that's worse than what you'd actually need to beat the boss at a reasonable pace in the first place.

Hopefully this gets sorted out at some point.

On the flip side, the UFO boss is not the actual first boss in full release, they stole a finished boss from later in the game since the first level boss is unfinished. That is why it seems hard as hell and the equipment you have at that point worthless.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Rookersh posted:

So what ever happened to the Novakids? They going to be a later addition, or did that stretch goal just not get met.

Nomikos posted:

After beta.

Stage 3 of beta will have the Novakids and fossils and what not added in. Though Stage 3 is also pre-release status so you are kind of right in a sense. :v:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Turtle Dad 420 posted:

Had to do a double take when I zapped down onto this planet.



Little did I know I had ventured into the horsebutt system.

If all of your mobs are not using the Fart and Horse Neigh sound clips, I will be disappointed.

---

In other news Curse has apparently been harassing Chucklefish over not using their Gamepedia wiki as the official wiki and has been bullying the guy who started the wiki that Chucklefish has decided upon and links to in their launcher.

Tiyuri posted:

Interesting that these comments appear (from two new accounts, minutes apart) right after I declined curse's.. request (demands) to host our official wiki. After confronting someone at curse for allegedly telling the founder of Starbounder not to work with us because we are "money hungry publishers who don't care about the community".

I'll let the Starbounder founder tell you about his wonderful experience with Curse trying to buy his wiki from him.

The guy he was responding to has mysteriously deleted all of his comments in response. :allears:

Good on them, Curse is a loving horrid company and is one of the chief supporters of a lot of the bad behaviors surrounding other game communities like MC.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Genocyber posted:

I disagree. It's not at all obvious you can use wood/coal for your FTL drive, and that you need to get stuff from a level 10 planet before using the Distress Beacon.

What the hell did you need to go to a T10 planet for? I pretty much had tier 1 stuff capped and killed the boss before I left my first planet (which was T1). :confused:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Where is this from? I'm a sucker for drama and hate Curse.

Quote came from here. Just a single part of a larger thread, the whole thing is several kinds of stupid with accusations that Chucklefish blowing off the community by trying to centralize to one wiki (that isn't owned by Curse).

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

cheesetriangles posted:

I kinda wish each players universe was random from anyone else's. If a lot of stuff was easier to self find it would be viable. Star coordinates are basically the Diablo 3 Auction House.

Same, as neat as it is for people to be able to share world seeds, knowing that you found an amazing world that will only be available to yourself kind of makes it that much more special. Nothing kind of sucks more than thinking you found something unique and finding out that its a well known thing (though with the stupid amount of planets available, that is probably not an issue).

However, from a gameplay standpoint, while having a list of where to get all the best gear is nice and is an option some players might want to take, I think in the end it drastically detracts from the game, especially in a multiplayer setting where everyone is going to be gunning for the same "listed" planets and everyone will have all the best tech right off the bat.

Though in a beta situation, I can see having a standardized seed system in the initial stages of the beta being a good thing because it allows the devs to go take a look at things that are not generating correctly that people are finding. As beta progresses I would like to see unique per player star maps. Or at the very least give the option to be able to change the default "master seed" so that this issue can be overcome for those players who want to have unique starmaps or for server owners who want players to have something fresh and not mapped out of all it's goodies.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Dec 9, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

cheesetriangles posted:

The multiplayer issue is the real problem with it. You can be doing it all by yourself but if you want to play multiplayer most people will probably be looking things up and have all the most powerful stuff from those certain planets. Figuring out mechanics on your own can be lovely if they are not clearly explained and it is nice to have a wiki for that kind of information.

Having set coordinates where all the most powerful items in the game are every time is really questionable to the health of the game. If you know the best items will be found there every time and you start following guides to get there I just don't see the point of playing like that. Why continue to play a game more than once if everything is the same?

There is great appeal to having a vast universe to explore. Yet doing so in multiplayer will basically be pointless because a lot of other players will most likely end up just going to those certain planets. Multiplayer has always been a big component of this kind of game.

Exactly, and when all the really good stuff is picked by a few players who got into the server first, you are going to run into issues with the health of the server's player base. You'll get players who join and check that list of planets, find that the gear is already taken, and then leave the server since it will be easier to play somewhere newer and the players who have taken said items will have blow through a ton of the game's progress by being over-equipped for what time they have invested in the server. This leads to stale gameplay and soon you'll have those players dropping off because they've grown bored with the game, and they end up taking those items with them. With the current starmap system, it is too easy to see a situation where servers get a burst of activity and then server population stagnates and dies, server closes up and then you see a new server started up after a while when people start discussing wanting to play multiplayer again, repeat. This is of course worst case scenario situation, but the single starmap system they got going on poses a great potential danger to gameplay health and server longevity, speaking as someone who has helped moderate a MC server for the past few years and has watched server after server rise and fail because of bad management choices and lack of uniqueness to keep a community alive.

That all said, things like the DM mode I think are excellent and will greatly help increase the viability for long term servers if the server admin and staff are willing to put a little effort into their little communities. Unique events are probably the biggest draw for our MC server and I wish that MC had something as half as robust sounding as what Tiy has talked about.


Demiurge4 posted:

An easy way to deal with the loot planets is to randomize the contents of chests from a different seed. This way you can still share interesting and awesome looking planets but the loot you find there will be different for every person.


I actually really like this solution. Devs if you are reading this chatter give this a thought!

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^^
True, but that doesn't solve the multiplayer issue, which is the bigger issues. It is a personal choice not to look at a list, it becomes an issue when you don't want that kind of gameplay on a server since it is that kind of activity that kills server longevity.

Section Z posted:

Since I don't know jack about coding, just know people keep saying how easily moddable this game is. How easy would it be to add an "Extra random" checkbox to multiplayer to skew the world gen?

A randomized treasure chest in a known spot is still a treasure chest.

Unsure, it depends on how the game draws its initial seed. Allowing players and server owners the ability to enter in their own random "core seed" (without having to manually edit game files) would be a nice feature to see and if it isn't something that isn't added in at launch, I'd like to see it modded. That or chests positions and content are randomly selected every time a world is first explored, keep the terrain and features universal, randomize the loot better.

Still like the first option better since it grantees sever operators to have unique structure spawns as well.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Dec 9, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

This is already a feature, as just posted above. You can edit your seed in the config files. Editing config files shouldn't be a thing server admins are sheepish about.

Ah, that is nice to hear then! That was my main issue with the current setup. :)

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Galaga Galaxian posted:

This doesn't really matter though unless characters are restricted to a single server/singleplayer. Even if a server uses its own custom seed universe, a player can still duck into single player to use the normal seed and a handy list of tech-coords to get stuff.

Maybe make an option on character generation for SP/MP or MP Only and severs can choose which player type they accept? That sounds a bit too complicated. :/ Maybe server stored players? That sounds a lot more simple.

From my experience with Terraria MP, nothing is worse than someone joining a fresh server with end game gear, ruins the mood among the other players.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Magmarashi posted:

That is already a planned server feature to come later, it's a pretty old one at that because one of the first questions asked was pertaining to terraria and there being no real in-house server control.

Ah, must have missed that. Well, with that my worries with potential issues with servers is gone, thanks for the info!

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

XboxPants posted:

This is the best news all week. Nexus is such garbage, for a number of reasons. It's obscene how many good mods there are already; the extent that Chucklefish has developed this game to be easy to mod, as well as how well they're working with the community, is gonna do wonders for the game's vitality.

Not just Nexus, I can see this as a step to further interrupt moves by Curse to try and move in on Starbound's current popularity (see the drama between Curse's representatives demanding that Tiy use their services as the official ones and how they bullied the guy who owns the wiki Chucklefish went with). It is nice to see this happening now before the community gets settled in somewhere, when modding is supported by a third party host, developers tend to lose all control and guidance of it and you end up seeing a ton of issues with bad behaviors being encouraged in the community (See the how Nexus allows modders to ban people from mods for any or no reason and Curse's support for allowing adfly links which have infected countless users with malware). Chucklefish has a good head on their shoulders so we will hopefully see good community guidelines for the modding community. :)


Genocyber posted:

How is that at all bad? Seriously, it's a primarily singe player game the point of which is to do what you want.

Not really, with specific features like DM Mode, I'd say that Starbound heavily lends itself to be more multiplayer driven. These kind of games get a lot of their longevity from server play. I mean, there is a ton of content to this game, and they said they have about a years worth of post release content thought up, but eventually you are going to do everything, and if the devs do not release new content, it will be servers that keep a lot of this game alive (and mods as well, but again, that is adding additional content), well run servers and good staff can keep a game interesting for years.

Having mods be mostly client side causes issues when players are able to adversely affect servers, anyone remember the early days of Terraria where people would hope on with modified weapons that spammed millions of bombs per click? That poo poo kills server viability until it was fixed.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 10, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
So apparently this is floating around in the game files:



This game. :allears:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

cheesetriangles posted:

You can't really stop people from playing multiplayer with a chest full of goodies. Unless you make it so there is ONLY server side characters which is the opposite of how the game works right now.

According to others in this thread, that is a planned feature for multiplayer already, just not implemented.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Desperate Character posted:

One of the programming guys is streaming him coding the new patch. He's testing it in-game now so it should be out soon! :f5:

http://www.twitch.tv/omnipotententity

Does that say he is working on drills at the bottom of the stream? Guess our first tech upgrade for pickaxes is coming. :D

Edit:

Whoa, showing off switching between alternative attacks for melee weapons, that is kind of nice (sucks how some weapons are only over head swings or horizontal swipes right now).

Enzer fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Dec 10, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Musluk posted:

And the first adf.ly link for a mod appeared on the forums, I think.

Goddamn, are any of the devs floating in the IRC? I'd like to know their take on the whole adfly situation. It isn't people making money off of mods, its people getting malware installed onto their PCs so someone can get one one thousandths of a penny. :/

Hope the mod directory they are throwing up will prohibit this poo poo.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

MrTheDevious posted:

I just modded the pixel death cost to nothing so I'd have a faster way out of the underground. Once there's a mirror equiv it's fine, but right now the whole thing is just annoying and pointless.

This is how Tiy explains it:

Tiy posted:

You'll be able to make 1000, 2000, 5000 and 10000 pixel blocks. You'll lose around 40% of the pixels in return for banking them, this sounds like a lot but we're going to be increasing death penalty to 30% again. Which means in just 2 deaths you've lost 51% of your pixels.

So the bank is worth it if you're going to do something dangerous. It has a higher cost than dying because you can die more than once.

I know some people prefer having 1:1, but I can understand the want for this kind of balance. I mean, once they get the ability to move the point where you beam down, death has no meaning if there is not some kind of risk. This also rewards not dying, since if you don't die often, then it will be cheaper for you to hold onto your pixels, rewarding you for player better.




Also, calling piles of Pixels, Voxels. :allears:

Also, another thing to somehow fit onto my ship. Ship upgrades need to come out soon. :smith:

Enzer fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Dec 10, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Roland Jones posted:

I disagree with this, because punishing people for failure only makes it harder for them to stop failing. Especially since the main source of pixels is grinding enemies; that's not even fun. The game making you do unfun stuff, or rather more unfun stuff since it's pushing back progress you had previously made, is not good game design, at least assuming the goal is to have a game that's, you know, fun.

Except that if you die a lot, then the pixel presser is a good investment for you, since it pays off if you die more than twice. If you play well and rarely die you will have a decent pixel count, if you die a lot and don't compress, you will lose out, if you die a lot and do compress, you will be way better off than someone who doesn't compress their pixels.



VVVV
poo poo, no, did someone grab a screen cap?

Enzer fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Dec 10, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Elendil004 posted:

so still no patch yet?

The devs are play testing the patch to make sure they didn't break progression since they overhauled so much.

---

The new drill looks nice, also it plows through material stupidly fast.



It is mining 2x2 squares right now, wonder if the end result will be as much as the pickaxe. Still hoping for 4x4 so the PC can walk through horizontal tunnels they carve.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
It isn't that much more than death, if you die twice you just lost 51% of your pixels as opposed to the 40% lost in keeping them safe. It might not be a good investment early on, but I can see on tougher worlds, or when you are going to take on a boss, or in PVP based servers, storing your pixels will be much more beneficial.

The Deadly Hume posted:

Any indication of what will you need to craft a drill? Hopefully it's not too far up the tech chain.

At what point in the current tier does the game expect you to have a diamond pick? Probably one stage beyond that, would not be surprised if the diamond pick was needed to make the drill.

Devor posted:

From watching him play around with it, it seems like a fast, strong pick is still better than the drill. The limiting factor is how much fiddling you can do with your mouse, rather than the speed of your tool. Which is more annoying, to me.

The drill would have to be a LOT faster/powerful to make it work.

True, but he is tweaking how it works right now, he just got the thing to actually drill a moment ago.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Dec 10, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

omeg posted:


2) Their sound was super obnoxious.


All drills play Careless Whisper when used.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
Huh, wonder what that would do since that is more or less what the MM does already.. maybe it is for organics?

--

Though chainsaws make sense to be the next upgrade choice for the axe. Wonder if there is going to be more unique wood that is harder to cut through?

Also, is anybody catching the name of the drill he is testing when he mouses over it? The tooltip disappears too fast, trying to see if it has a material name attached to it to gauge where it is in the tech tree.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

MoonwalkInvincible posted:

My problem with this reasoning is that if you really care about your pixel count (as in, you're building your way up to something which costs a lot and not just farting around and only looking at it occasionally), when are you ever going to die twice to make that investment worthwhile? Once you're well past the earliest parts of the early game and the starting planet monsters are trivial, that is.

There's always something to spend your money on (thereby getting 100% of its value) in your downtime, in my experience, so the only time you'd have a significant amount of pixels on your person in the first place is if you're saving up to spend again on something big or you just happened to go a long time without a death. And if you are saving up to something big, why would you be going somewhere high-risk rather than fighting somewhere safe? Putting that high of a cost on banking means that the question of spend vs save is going to point to spend 99% of the time, and the most efficient way to afford something costly is still usually going to be to go farm money on a planet where you have nearly no chance of death, unless they also make huge changes to pixel costs and monster pixel drops to make taking a higher risk worthwhile.

The Pixel bank is balanced around the new combat mechanics, and I would assume that pixels are probably going to be better rewarded for risk in the future. Why grind away 10,000 pixels in 1 Pixel drops when I can fight something that drops 100 Pixels but has a chance of killing me? Every few hundred I might want to store them for safe keeping, sure I will have to maybe kill ten or so more in the end to make up for it, but it would be better than dying, reviving at my ship, and dying soon again. I mean, I've literally died within 20 seconds of teleporting down to a planet's surface because there is a mob right next to me and its dealt a good chunk of damage before I've could retaliate.

---

This whole argument is kind of stupid since I see this mechanic in a lot of games and this is the first time I've seen people actually complain about it. It is doubly stupid since you can edit this feature out in a min or two. It also reminds me of the "Why not just play in creative mode" debates you hear in MC modding threads and dear lord are those loving stupid. :v:

Enzer fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Dec 10, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Finally caught the drill name, it was Diamond Drill. Wonder if the drills are an outright replacement of the pick then or if they are just go up a similar progression (seems odd unless they are "like a pick but act differently" instead of being a better pick).. Of course it could all just be placeholders. :v:

Enzer fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Dec 10, 2013

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Looks like angle and type of sword swing is now tied into how your mouse is positioned around your character, this will make fighting things with melee a lot smoother.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
Were they the developers or the publishers of it? They've published a few games, either way their choice in games to publish and develop is rather nice.


Oh hey! So that mod that got pointed out to be using adfly on the Chucklefish forums? A moderator edited out the adfly link and replaced it with a direct link to the mediafire download. :haw:

Chucklefish, let me count the ways that I appreciate you. :allears:

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Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Musluk posted:

Published, not developed.


Well, it took me, Kaker and others on IRC making GBS threads on adfly for 5 minutes straight, but am I loving glad we don't get to see adfly on chucklefish forums.

You're doing good work keeping this community clean. :golfclap:

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