- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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There was a Vancouver promotion that was pretty hot, Piper, Rick Martel, Raven (as Scotty Flamingo), and the Moondogs all did shots there. Here's more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWA:_All-Star_Wrestling
El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 10, 2013
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Dec 10, 2013 21:11
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Apr 25, 2024 04:43
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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I'd love to write something up on the Stampede territory and Western Canada, but I'd have to reread a couple of books to do it. I'll follow the thread and contribute where I can.
Make sure you cite the Heath McCoy one, it owns. The Pain and the Passion. I'll be contributing as much as I can to this thread once I cop the Montreal territory book, Midgets, Mad Dogs, and Screwjobs.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:51
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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Here's a guide to the history of FMW, which had a big influence on ECW and Japanese indy wrestling in general, by DVDVR poster BAHU. My apologies if it doesn't quite fit the theme of the thread, but it's a really good read
http://www.puroresucentral.com/FMW.html
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Dec 13, 2013 14:37
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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There's currently a poll on wo/f4w asking "Who is the second greatest pro wrestling promoter of all time".
The choices are:
code: Vince McMahon Sr.
Sam Muchnick
Giant Baba
Hisashi Shimma
Rikidozan
Jim Barnett
Eddie Graham
Jerry Jarrett
Bill Watts
Billy Sandow
Paul Bowser
Jack Curley
I'm really tempted to vote Jerry Jarrett here, TNA's failure aside. He was insanely successful and a big part of why Memphis did so well. He also, as has been pointed out on DVDVR, probably the only non-wrestler to make money off of TNA.
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Dec 17, 2013 19:11
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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How long was he promoting Memphis? I know Memphis outlasted all of the other territories but I don't know when he stopped promoting it. I mean being able to survive the WWF takeover of the 80's means something, right?
He started in 1965 and went through their most successful years as a co-promoter with Lawler (and Fargo, I think). I believe Lawler bought him out in the late 80's or very early 90's. The writing was on the wall at that point.
I really want a definitive book about Memphis wrestling. Memphis Heat is a cool film but I want something more in depth.
El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Dec 18, 2013
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Dec 18, 2013 17:45
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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What most people around the area consider to be "Real Memphis Wrestling" died in 1997 with the USWA. Power Pro Wrestling was alright, but it was a shell of what had come before and eventually just became a poor WWE developmental area until WWE left and then it kind of morphed into MCW. Memphis Championship Wrestling was largely terrible and I never cared for it all. It was run by I believe Terry Golden who got his start running a terrible (loving awful) garbage promotion in the area called Kick rear end Wrestling. It was the worst garbage ECW ripoff poo poo that probably existed at the time. It got local air time on some stupid channel I can't remember the name of. One of those odd channels you get with rabbit ear antennas. But MCW was pretty bad, even though a it did produce a few decent things before it ended. Then just Memphis Wrestling came into being and was run by Corey Maclin (who was recently killed in a car accident) and I think that was the company the Hogan and Big Show killed.
The one Maclin did also did a big tag match between Lawler and Jimmy Hart (which, if you know Mempho history, is a weird pairing), vs Maclin and Terry Funk. Funk cut promos from his ranch and later transcribed them in his book. The promos were definitely good.
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Dec 20, 2013 01:48
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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Flat out stolen from Pro Wrestling Only (a borderline terrible board that occasionally has interesting stuff). This is about Outlaw promotions, which were territories that would try and take on established NWA sanctioned territories with the idea of running them out of town
An outlaw was more than just a group that was outisde the NWA, AWA, and WWWF. Outlaw promotions generally ran against established promotions in towns that those established groups claimed as their own and theoretically had exclusive rights to under the established pro wrestling order. In those disputed towns the outlaws tended to have the weaker TV station (the UHF you could only pick up in the right weather) and a secondary arena (running a roller rink, school gym or auction barn instead of the local Civic Coliseum).
I don't consider the NWF to have been an outlaw. They had connections with the big offices and used lots of guys who worked elsewhere before, during, and after their association with the NWF without any political ramifications. It was the only game in town in its markets, at least on a major league level, and ran the big arenas. It was a different deal than the ICW group owned by Angelo Poffo in Kentucky which was a true outlaw.
ICW ran turf in Kentucky and Illinois that was claimed by the Memphis and Indianapolis promotions. It made grandstand challenges designed to embarrass wrestlers from its better established rivals, usually guys like Lawler and Dundee, used wrestlers who were less in demand elsewhere (blacklisting is going a bit far, for the most part, since someone capable of drawing or who had the right connections could get work in other promotions) and generally ran secondary venues in the disputed markets.
...
My take is the blacklisting thing is a bit overblown. If you could work and had the right connections, someone would hire you. I'd buy though that certain guys were kept out of specific promotions for reasons other than business. However there was generally always someplace else to go. Most of the guys who claimed they were blackballed out the business entirely tended to be marginal wrestlers who made political enemies.
...
Some outlaw groups from the old days:
- Universal Wrestling. This outfit ran against The Sheik's Detroit based territory around 1975 and 1976 and mainly consisted of guys who walked out on Farhat due to disputes over pay and bookings.
- IWA. This promotion had two phases. In 1975 and early 1976 it attempted to be a national promotion and got TV in most of the major markets. When that failed and Eddie Einhorn and TVS withdrew, what was left of the group based itself in Winston-Salem, NC and ran as a local outlaw against JCP until closing in 1977.
- Phil Golden ran a group in Kentucky around 1971-72 in opposition to Nick Gulas' Nashville office.
- Greater St. Louis Wrestling. Larry Matysik opened up a group against the NWA office which had passed to Bob Geigel and Verne Gagne after Sam Muchnick retired. This group closed up when the WWF entered St. Louis and changed the game in late 1983.
- Sunbelt Wrestling. This was a Jacksonville based effort to run against the Florida office in 1981.
- Southwest (sort of). Southwest had some bad blood with the Dallas office and was not an NWA member, but booked talent into Houston for Paul Boesch for a while and had some mainstream talent. After Boesch split with this office to go with Watts, Southwest tried to run Houston in opposition although even afterwards it had little trouble getting recognizable talent.
- Big Bear. For years Dave McKigney's Ontario group was an outlaw, bucking the system against the Toronto office.
- Superstar Championship Wrestling. Was this truly an outlaw? I've gotten the impression they butted heads with Portland and Vancouver over Seattle, but it seemed like a mainstream group.
- San Francisco (Shire). When Roy Shire opened up in San Francisco, he was an outlaw, which is why this group didn't join the NWA until the late 1960s. Joe Malcewicz was the NWA's San Francisco promoter, but he didn't have or want TV while Shire used it well. This battle lasted about a year, but was over long before then. After killing off the established promotion, Shire's company was effectively part of the establishment.
- UWA. Lou Thesz had fallen out with Nick Gulas and opened up this opposition promotion in response during 1976. He used a lot of guys who had worked for Nick in the past or who became better known wrestlers later.
- All Star Wrestling. Bob Roop, Bob Orton Jr., Ron Garvin, Boris Malenko, and Ron Wright broke off from Ron Fuller's Southeastern group in mid 1979 after accusing Ron of skimming gate money. They opened this group to compete with him in Knoxville and the surrounding towns. The war got so bitter that it killed the town. Fuller sold out to the Georgia office and left. The outlaws had to merge with ICW and then abandon Knoxville in favor of working Poffo's main circuit.
- All South. This promotion launched in November of 1972 and closed about two years later in 1974. It was born out of a dispute between the owners of the NWA affiliated office in Georgia and Ann Gunkel, the widow of Ray Gunkel who had been their managing partner. Most of the wrestlers went with Deep South, but Columbus/Macon promoter Fred Ward's decision to stick with the NWA promotion tipped the scales against the rebel group early on in the battle.
- Atlanta was pretty fertile ground for outlaws. As was mentioned, Jim Wilson and Thunderbolt Patterson tried starting opposition to Georgia Championship Wrestling in the mid 1970s. This flickered out in a hurry after a show at The Omni tanked (this is the one Wilson claimed that GCW sabotaged). Lars Anderson ran a group in the early 1980s. There was also the UWA which used mainly black wrestlers and aimed itself at black fans.
- Wrestling Show Classics. Bobby Davis ran this promotion in Ohio, centered around Cincinnati and also running Dayton, Columbus, and some other towns. This group competed with The Sheik's Detroit office which booked those Ohio towns. Davis' friend Buddy Rogers, Mark Lewin, Killer Karl Kox, and some other names of note worked here in 1969 and 1970. This group also ran the first ever wrestling card at The Spectrum in Philadelphia in the fall of 1969. Whether this was the start of a run against the WWWF, which ran the older Philadelphia Arena, or just a one shot deal is unknown since the attendance was awful and the promotion didn't return. The WWWF didn't open up at The Spectrum until 1974.
- Baron Leone attempted to run against the Los Angeles office. There is not a lot of information, but he may have made multiple attempts based on the timeline which stretches from the 1960s into the 1980s.
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Dec 20, 2013 17:50
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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The IWA was pretty interesting and I should write some stuff about that. I was going to include it in the original OP but, laziness.
Terry Funk mentions in his book that Einhorn and a wrestler named Pedro Martinez tried to get IWA on TV in Amarillo, and that Funk shared a flight with Martinez, and warned him to keep his tapes out of Amarillo. Later, Martinez tried to accuse Funk of assault and used a picture of his inflamed testicle to try and get some money out of Funk. Didn't take, but what a shitbag.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:01
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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International Championship Wrestling, the IWA was the first promotion in the US to try to go national. You obviously had national promotions in other countries, even to some extent in North America. Grand Prix was based in Quebec, but their TV was broadcast nationwide, as was Celebrity Wrestling, Paul Vachon's follow up. That makes them at least as much of a national promotion as TNA!
Anyway, Eddie Einhorn started IWA in 1975, you can see their TV opening here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr-cDm7bNBE
The first TV taping was January 6th in Savannah GA, a city in between the regular circuits of GCW, Florida and MAW. The idea was to bring in national and international stars and run a major promotion with better talent, better TV on a bigger scale. That's not what ended up happening. Many of the wrestlers they planned to bring in fell through, or left very quickly. The promotion was built on the remnants of the NWF (the world title of which Inoki ended up with in an attempt to legitimize himself) with guys like Ladd, Baker and the Mongols, and offered contracts which enticed outside talent like Tarzan Tyler, Lawler, Mascaras, etc... Well, in theory it did. Many of these outside talents that were advertised never showed, like Tyler for instance.
The IWA ended up concentrating its efforts in the Carolinas and New York market, which was probably the stupidest thing they could do. Crockett ran big shows up against theirs and Vince kept they relegated to small theaters and crappy stadiums. With some of their big name talent never really existing and an in ring product that frankly was about average, the group didn't have much to offer even if they could get into the big arenas. You can look at the videos online and see the production values were nothing special either. Einhorn lost half a million and quit by October. The group sort of stuck around and ran shows into 1976, but nothing of substance.
One thing that strikes me with IWA and many ambitious outlaw or opposition groups is how quickly promotional wars sputter out in "North American" market. With Montreal you had Grand Prix and All Star engage in a red hot promotional war that created a huge boom period and within 3 years Grand Prix was dead with All Star to die soon after. Earlier promotional wars in Montreal saw one side die after a year or two. IWA was pretty ill conceived and was dead in a year.
In almost every case you see these wars fought over not just fans, but venues. In Montreal you had All Star trying to keep Grand Prix out of the the Forum (and thus unable to get a license to promote in Montreal.) With the WWF vs anyone you have Vince keeping them out of MSG, New Haven and anywhere else he can. When Pro Wrestling USA started running the Meadowlands, Vince stopped to show them who is boss. Crockett and IWA wound up in court over Crockett trying to keep its venues exclusive. WWE to this day tries to have clauses in its contracts to keep competitors from running venues within a certain time frame of its shows. Hell, then there were the wars Vince fought with Crockett and Turner over PPV.
Meanwhile in Japan the All Japan vs New Japan war lasted on even terms for nearly 30 years before All Japan started fading, CMLL vs AAA lasted for the better part of two decades (and CMLL isn't quite done yet.) Yes I know Mexico is part of North America, but it and Puerto Rico (another market with a long standing rivalry) aren't usually counted in the North American market.
Meltzer has said many times recently that there usually isn't room for a #2 product in a market. Fans, at least in the US want to see the best. When Vince came to markets with a strong local promotion that put on a better product, he had trouble drawing in that city. When opposition groups popped up in cities, unless they could provide the best talent, they didn't survive. Even without groups like the NWA conspiring against "outlaws" it's really hard for any market to sustain a #2. When Grand Prix fought All Star, they didn't do so by presenting themselves as a second rate alternative, they brought in as many stars as they could. On top of the Vachons, Andre and Carpentier they poached the LeDucs from All Star, brought in tons of outside talent and became the hottest act in town. This forced All Star to do the same, and business was hot because both groups produced killer line ups to try and survive. Then when things cooled down, the fans didn't want to pay for a lesser product.
Now, we're seeing that in the US on a national level.
The story of how Grand Prix eventually were able to run shows in the Forum is pretty amazing. Basically, there was a rumour flying around that Jean "Johnny" Rougeau (the Stu of that family, if you will) was sleeping with legendary Canadien captain Jean Beliveau's wife. Most believed it to be bullshit, but it bothered Beliveau (it got mainstream press coverage) that Rougeau did nothing to dissuade the rumours, and Paul Vachon knew this. So he went to Beliveau. The main reason Grad Prix couldn't get dates was that the Montreal Athletic Commission wouldn't allow them to run the Forum until they had confirmed dates, which they couldn't get unless they had had the license from the MAC that MRT mentioned, who blatantly favored All Star. Once Beliveau intervened, it was no longer a factor.
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Dec 26, 2013 17:08
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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Billy Robinson died today at age 74. I'll try to do a post on him later today.
Lemme save you some time: Billy Robinson was one of the baddest motherfuckers to ever lace 'em up.
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Mar 5, 2014 00:40
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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Is the ring that was used at One Night Stand 2005 the original ECW ring?
That ring was far too clean to have ever been used by ECW.
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Mar 5, 2014 00:57
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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I doubt it, but I have no idea what happened to that ring.
The Observer is out tomorrow so instead of a Cliff's Notes version of Robinson, I had a better idea last night: After Nitro on psp-tv it is Billy Robinson Night! Lot's of Bockwinkel in there. I'll post the playlist in here later for those who are busy tonight.
Oh hell yes!
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Mar 5, 2014 01:13
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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I know it's considered "conventional wisdom" that Vince owes Paul Heyman a great creatively, but considering how much Paul lifted from Memphis (especially the brawling/blood aspect), people really need to acknowledge how much Vince owes Lawler and Co. for his success.
How come Memphis never tried to go National? Was it because of their relationship with the AWA and NWA?
Also, I wanna see how people do on this quiz. I got 84%. No cheatin'!
http://www.sporcle.com/games/Chui/nwaworldchampions
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Jan 8, 2015 17:53
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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He might have been if Ric hadn't taken the big gold belt with him when he left for WWF.
Flair also refused to lose the belt to Luger twice.
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Jan 8, 2015 18:55
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Apr 25, 2024 04:43
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- El Gallinero Gros
- Mar 17, 2010
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Unfortunately I don't think a lot of it still exists due to wiping
From what I understand this is true of a lot of territorial stuff. drat shame. Like, I'd love to be able to run a weekly PSPTV show of Memphis TV every week from around when Lawler became their top guy until the end of the ECW vs USWA feud.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:40
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Dec 10, 2013 21:11
