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Space T Rex posted:Would they have to stop having it for download, or just have to stop working on it, or both? I'm sure they'd have to take down their download links, but it's so popular you'd definitely still be able to find it on back alley filesharing sites.
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Dec 13, 2013 09:53
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Nintendo is probably willing to let it slide as long as it doesn't actively promote itself or interfere with the sales of their own game. That's basically how most mods get by. If you're trying to use it to promote something or for profit they are basically obligated to hop down your throat because at that point you're doing something that is actively damaging. Likewise if, for example, someone tried to argue for using Project M instead of Melee, Brawl or For at EVO or some other event. As long as the Project M guys aren't dumb enough to try to profit off it, try to get it recognized officially, or to try to go around to public places and go "hey, don't play SSB4, play our mod instead", Nintendo doesn't have any particular reason to jump down their throat. It's sad that it is a lot of work for something that is destined to remain niche even by niche standards but that's kind of inevitable when you're playing in someone else's garden. If Nintendo decided to press it, they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but that applies to a lot of mods or works that using existing IP and it usually isn't worth the trouble unless things are pushed and the company is obligated to defend their IP. Nobody really wants to go after a bunch of young guys. It's lovely PR and not profitable. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 10:18
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I'm okay with this staying in everyone's living rooms. Sure, it'd be cool to see it at EVO, but my guess is everyone who cares will probably just organize local/online tournaments anyway. I mean, someone could hope for a Black Mesa Source situation, but that's exceedingly unlikely with Nintendo.Butt Ghost posted:Does having no earthly idea of what I'm doing or even what's going on mean I'm playing Turbo Mode correctly? Countblanc posted:I think Turbo Mode really gets cool once it starts "clicking". I mean mashing is fine, but the second you realize that suddenly you can combo Bowser's fire into his forward smash your eyes sort of light up and the world just gets a little bit more beautiful. I'm still mashing and I've still sort of clicked. Comboing between Marth's side-B and forward tilt is pretty basic, but I edgeguarded Mewtwo pretty efficiently with it and I'm still laughing. Or maybe I'm laughing because I had also turned on 300%, Mega, Metal, Flower, Light gravity, and Fast motion at the same time and it was basically everyone just smacking each other in a great tornado of punching and slashing forever and it was awesome.
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Dec 13, 2013 16:30
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Wild Knight posted:I'm okay with this staying in everyone's living rooms. Sure, it'd be cool to see it at EVO... I don't think Project: M would be permitted at EVO anyway cause it's a hacked game.
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Dec 13, 2013 16:43
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TaurusOxford posted:I don't think Project: M would be permitted at EVO anyway cause it's a hacked game. Unless Nintendo officially sanctioned it. It's a pipe dream but they could make a lot of money if they hired PMBR to do a quick HD port as DLC for Smash 4. F. Lobot fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 16:59
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F. Lobot posted:Unless Nintendo officially sanctioned it. It's a pipe dream but they could make a lot of money if they hired PMBR to do a quick HD port as DLC for Smash 4. You do realize Nintendo almost killed Melee's event at this year's EVO, right? I think the only reason they let it go was because they didn't want the PR of "NINTENDO SUPPORTS BREAST CANCER!" on their heads.
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Dec 13, 2013 17:03
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TaurusOxford posted:You do realize Nintendo almost killed Melee's event at this year's EVO, right? I think the only reason they let it go was because they didn't want the PR of "NINTENDO SUPPORTS BREAST CANCER!" on their heads. Of course I know. It's mostly Japanese pride standing in the way of progress as usual. Perhaps if their consoles continue to sell poorly they'd be humbled enough to mix things up a bit, embrace new ideas like indie development, esports, crowd sourcing, and user-created content. Nintendo's quality control used to mean something, but now they're just playing it as safe as possible. They only focus on their four most popular franchises, and even those have been underwhelming lately (Skyward Sword, NSMB2, NSMBU). SEGA and Capcom used to have quality control too, and now they release fanmade projects as official games. Anything's possible.
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Dec 13, 2013 17:31
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TaurusOxford posted:I don't think Project: M would be permitted at EVO anyway cause it's a hacked game. I want to say that this is more of a "Brawl Balance Patch", but I know that I would just be lying to myself and disrespecting all of the hard work that the PMBR team put into this. I love watching the VGbootcamp Twitch streams for Project M, because I always see a different character show up and do things I never imagined possible. Different game or not, I love the fresh take on an old classic, and my ambivalence toward the Wii U is slowly going away the more I play Project M, because it is just making me want more Smash. Short version: Let's hope Nintendo leaves well enough alone! Also, I love the Ice Climbers!!
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Dec 13, 2013 18:00
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I've got about 3 hours to kill if someone wants to try some wifi with me. Friendcode is 3956-0319-7518 I'm not currently sitting in front of the TV, so send me a PM first and we can set something up.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:09
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F. Lobot posted:Of course I know. It's mostly Japanese pride standing in the way of progress as usual. Perhaps if their consoles continue to sell poorly they'd be humbled enough to mix things up a bit, embrace new ideas like indie development, esports, crowd sourcing, and user-created content. This isn't Japanese Pride. Very few companies want to put the message out there of "modify one of our games, using our IPs, and an exploit on our system, to create a game that is a potential competitor to one of our own games, and we'll pay you for it!" Very few American companies would let that fly either and the ones that do usually have specific reasons for it which outweigh the costs. (Usually "we're not doing anything with this IP directly in the year future" like Mega Man or Half-Life or "it's honestly cheaper this way" like XSEED licensing an existing translation instead of doing their own.) In comparison Nintendo is making a direct sequel to Smash as we speak. It's also unlikely they would make a lot of money because the Competitive Smash Community really isn't that large. It's a vocal community but a lot of the changes made to the game are only going to be meaningful to them compared to "the new game has Mega Man!" Smash 4 is far more likely to fill the same niche but in a more profitable way. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 21:16
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Nintendo already went court in 1992 with the GameGenie about modifying games, they lost, Project M is the same idea to a much greater extent. I think for the most part Nintendo always loses in court. At this point they should really just hire everyone on the Project M team.
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Dec 13, 2013 22:15
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It seems pretty silly to assume Nintendo even knows what a Project M is let alone that their Japanese Honor is the problem they would have with people loving with their poo poo.
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Dec 13, 2013 22:19
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Sire Oblivion posted:Nintendo already went court in 1992 with the GameGenie about modifying games, they lost, Project M is the same idea to a much greater extent. I think for the most part Nintendo always loses in court. At this point they should really just hire everyone on the Project M team. The case you're quoting is in fact exactly what I was saying. The reason Nintendo lost that specific case was because modifying the game with a Game Genie would have been protected under Fair Use even if it was a derivative work because the Game Genie is used for personal enjoyment in the privacy of ones own home instead of profit. Midway earlier won a similar case because the defendant in that case was profiting off the modifications they made. (They altered arcade machines to run faster, which made them harder and in turn caused people to spend more money trying to beat them.) The commerical gain aspect is really important here and is the difference between Galoob and Midway. Another important difference is that the Game Genie doesn't create a separate work that is transferable in some way. You can pass the codes along but you're not exchanging modified games. This isn't true in the case of Project M. (Or at least much harder to argue.) Project M would be in a different position from the Game Genie because it's more arguably creating a derivative work (and the Project M team doesn't have lawyers on-par with a major company like Galoob.) It isn't a case of "see, they said the Game Genie is okay, so everything is okay forever!" There are significant differences in the case. If the Project M team actually tried to make commercial gains (or interfere with Nintendo's own gains) off Project M they'd be hosed in court. As long as they don't then it's a sticky enough situation not to risk the bad PR but if Nintendo actually tried to go at them, there's a good chance Nintendo would win. It just doesn't benefit anyone for Nintendo to go at them as long as Project M remains as it is. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 23:08
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Midboss posted:It seems pretty silly to assume Nintendo even knows what a Project M is let alone that their Japanese Honor is the problem they would have with people loving with their poo poo. When you have major gaming news sites reporting in on it, I'm pretty drat sure Nintendo has caught wind of it. Hell one article stated "The best Smash Bros. isn't made by Nintendo." And they're right.
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Dec 13, 2013 23:10
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Someone teach me how to bomb jump with Toon Link, he's my favourite character in Brawl and I want to keep using him, but I just can't seem to figure it out.
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Dec 13, 2013 23:12
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Red Metal posted:Someone teach me how to bomb jump with Toon Link, he's my favourite character in Brawl and I want to keep using him, but I just can't seem to figure it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S24m-1_WCnE
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Dec 13, 2013 23:16
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Nintendo isn't going to shut down this dumb thing because even if it is copyright infringement, it's being done by fans. Companies tend to ignore fan projects because, well, it only leads to bad PR. No company wants to have "Company threatens its own fans with a lawsuit".
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Dec 14, 2013 00:13
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Played a couple hours today, hooray. Bowser definitely still feels solid, and while his sweet spot forward-air isn't the easiest thing in the world to land, it packs a punch. The changes to fortress hogging are still dumb as gently caress though.
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Dec 14, 2013 00:59
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What happened to the Fortress?
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Dec 14, 2013 01:03
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Is there anyway to make it so I can use a Wii U Pro controller with this and other Wii games? I remember seeing an article a few months ago but it's hard to tell what's legit when googling Wii homebrew info.
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Dec 14, 2013 01:06
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Sire Oblivion posted:What happened to the Fortress? code:
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Dec 14, 2013 01:07
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No, unless someone has made an adapter that has the Wii U Pro act as Classic Controller and since it transmits wirelessly I don't see a way of sending signals by tethering the charge cable to a Wiimote somehow. Wii U devices don't communicate with the console once it's in Wii mode.
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Dec 14, 2013 01:11
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Sire Oblivion posted:When you have major gaming news sites reporting in on it, I'm pretty drat sure Nintendo has caught wind of it. Hell one article stated "The best Smash Bros. isn't made by Nintendo." I dunno. Project M is fun as gently caress to watch when competitive players are going nuts on it but it really just doesn't do it for me the same way Brawl did when it was new.  There's just a little too much sameyness with the stages going on for me. The P:M Green Hill is more competitively sound but I don't find it as fun, and sometimes you just want to mess with the minigames on Warioware. I love messing with Mewtwo and Roy but the Project M adventure is probably going to end for me before too long.Speaking of which, though, are there any good Mewtwo videos? I feel like you could totally do some sick stuff with him but I can't get it down at all.
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Dec 14, 2013 03:08
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So I'm assuming it has the same lovely lag that Brawl had? What do goons think of playing it online? I tried brawl online once and it was so terrible I decided right then and there, to never play it again.
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Dec 14, 2013 03:46
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nerdbot posted:I dunno. Project M is fun as gently caress to watch when competitive players are going nuts on it but it really just doesn't do it for me the same way Brawl did when it was new. I'm sorry about your terrible opinions man. Get well soon!
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Dec 14, 2013 04:05
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So is there not a way to take the Project M character changes, but keep the default stages?
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Dec 14, 2013 05:15
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My friends and I are streaming Project M RIGHT NOW: http://ustre.am/FRni
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Dec 14, 2013 05:16
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F. Lobot posted:Of course I know. It's mostly Japanese pride standing in the way of progress as usual. Perhaps if their consoles continue to sell poorly they'd be humbled enough to mix things up a bit, embrace new ideas like indie development, esports, crowd sourcing, and user-created content. Do you seriously think it's some innate JAPANESE HONOR  ? And besides, you're ignoring both Link Between Worlds and Mario 3D World, both of which are incredibly good games.nerdbot posted:I dunno. Project M is fun as gently caress to watch when competitive players are going nuts on it but it really just doesn't do it for me the same way Brawl did when it was new. I like most of what they did with the characters (see: recloning Falco, copy-pasting Marth from Melee), but yeah, I agree with you about the boring stages. You have a lot of variations on "large platform with smaller platforms", and I guess the placement is super important for ~competitive~ players, but it just strikes me as lazy. Raserys fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 06:14
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I don't really see how it's lazy at all? I mean you can dislike it, but they literally created a bunch of new stages, instead of keeping the same ones. Doing extra work to make a game fit your image, regardless of if it's what any one person wants, is the opposite of lazy.
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Dec 14, 2013 06:26
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Lazy was probably the wrong word. I get the picture, it must have taken a lot of work to make those stages or import them or alter them, I respect that. The part that sticks in my head though is the Dracula's Castle page on the website that talks about it being the most interesting stage ever put in a Smash game, and yeah, it has a lot of potential, but the stage itself is literally just a big platform and three moving platforms. It must have taken a lot of work to make it, but I just feel like minimum creativity was put in order to keep standards.
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Dec 14, 2013 06:57
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I think there's a decent mix of "competitive" and "casual" stages. It seems like they laid out the stage select screen so everything on page one is a stage that would be played competitively while everything on page two is for more casual play. I would love to see a few of the crazier stages from Melee return (Brinstar Depths and Pokefloats mainly, but also the Super Mario Bros. 2 stage), and for the random elements to be added to the N64 and Melee stages like the Pokemon on Saffron City, tornadoes on Hyrule Castle and Banzai Bills on Peach's Castle, but for the most part I think the stage selection is a huge step up from Brawl. Most of Brawl's crazies stages were really awful (75m, Mario Bros, New Pork City, Rumble Falls, Hanenbow, probably a couple more that I'm forgetting), and Project M removes all of those while preserving the few that were actually fun (Port Town, Pictochat, Melee stages that were already in Brawl like Big Blue and Rainbow Cruise). They even added Fourside from Melee, which doesn't seem remotely set up for tournament play to me but I'm not that familiar with competitive Smash so maybe I'm just wrong. The only stage I think they made significantly worse is WarioWare. I really loved the microgames in Brawl, and removing them in Project M makes the stage pretty boring. TechnoSyndrome fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 07:59
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Wind God Sety posted:So is there not a way to take the Project M character changes, but keep the default stages? Yeah, I believe if you just delete the files for the new stages the game will load up the old ones from the disc.
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Dec 14, 2013 13:27
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ImpAtom posted:(like XSEED licensing an existing translation instead of doing their own.) Also, Smash Bros DLC would sell out the rear end, no matter what it is. I look around and see college kids, people at my job, and generally not tournament players all raving about this niche Brawl mod, it's kind of a shame it's free. As for national pride, it's honestly something that hold's back a lot of Japanese developers. Video games have historically been their domain, and they value it as a part of the culture they themselves formed. But they're also reluctant to adopt innovations made by the western games industry. Nintendo is particularly guilty of ignoring the standards for online systems and digital rights management set by Xbox Live and iTunes, but Sony is much more forward on that front because their western branch has more influence. I'm not saying it's the only reason they would never sanction Project M, but it's just one more seemingly insurmountable wall. Raserys posted:And besides, you're ignoring both Link Between Worlds and Mario 3D World, both of which are incredibly good games. I'm not ignoring them, they truly are great, but in its heyday Nintendo would not assign a mainline Mario game to the interns (New Super Mario Bros 2).
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Dec 15, 2013 06:50
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I've never seen a fan translation get licensed by an actual company and sold for money besides the ones for Visual Novels, and that industry is pretty shady and backwater anyway since it's 90% porn and 5% two guys making games to sell at anime conventions. The standards aren't exactly high. Has this ever happened with an actual video game? It seems like there'd be a lot of reasons you couldn't.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:59
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Endorph posted:I've never seen a fan translation get licensed by an actual company and sold for money besides the ones for Visual Novels, and that industry is pretty shady and backwater anyway since it's 90% porn and 5% two guys making games to sell at anime conventions. The standards aren't exactly high. Translation maybe not, but fan mods > full game absolutely. Valve's business model is taking mods, buying the teams and giving them a budget. Portal, TF2, Dota2, Left 4 dead, Counterstrike all evolved out of mods.
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Dec 15, 2013 07:10
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When Sonic CD got rereleased on modern consoles, the bulk of the porting work was a fan project that became officially licensed. I think the guy became a permanent Sega employee too.
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Dec 15, 2013 07:15
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jivjov posted:When Sonic CD got rereleased on modern consoles, the bulk of the porting work was a fan project that became officially licensed. I think the guy became a permanent Sega employee too. Oh right the same guy has re-done Sonic 2 now as well.
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Dec 15, 2013 07:19
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F. Lobot posted:But Nintendo wouldn't even do that. They could licence the Mother 3 translation with a few localization edits and please a lot of people, but they think too highly of the franchises they don't even release stateside. The fan translation wasn't released until four years after the DS came out, so by then Nintendo would be justified in thinking that the GBA was long dead and there wouldn't be any point in releasing the game considering everyone who wanted to play it would have already done so using a ROM and the patch. If there's anything I'd want Nintendo to take from this mod, it's that wave-dashing is a really interesting mechanic that they could have integrated into the game in a natural way, rather than just ignoring it out of fear that it might alienate the broader demographics that play Smash. Which it sort of has, but that's just because it's very unnatural compared to virtually every other mechanic in Melee by comparison. Like I dunno, they could maybe add a "slide" button to the next game that works almost identically (in that you could cancel into any attack while doing it), but pulling it off would be as simple as button+direction rather than doing something as wonky as evading into the ground.
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Dec 15, 2013 07:47
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Oh man, when did they change Snake's up taunt to him smoking? I like how it actually hurts you slightly when you use it too. 
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Dec 15, 2013 22:23
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I really appreciate all the extra sound effects like Snake's damage ping from the cigarette, but does anyone know which file is the reflector sound? In project M, they changed it to the item pick up sound. I'd like to keep the unique Brawl sound.
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Dec 16, 2013 03:56
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