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doomisland
Oct 5, 2004



Holy poo poo these people need to keep their mouths shut

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NeuroticLich
Oct 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Wow, totally glad I've been binge watching this show. Fantastic stuff, I'll never be able to watch another game show again without comparing it to this one.

Although, between this and Running Man, what is with Korean shows and absolutely loving the Bourne soundtrack? Honest curiosity here, I don't think there's an episode of The Genius where Extreme Ways isn't played at least twice.

I love that Jinho, knowing he was picking first, purposefully messed with the stacks so that no one could get any information out of them later on, since he had done that to help Hongchul during the last deathmatch.

Nexal posted:

I need to stop watching previews...

I just immediately turn off the preview as soon as the host announces the name for the game for the next week. That alone gives me something to consider on what the next game might entail. So far all of my guesses have been wrong...

Arcanen
Dec 19, 2005



NeuroticLich posted:

I just immediately turn off the preview as soon as the host announces the name for the game for the next week. That alone gives me something to consider on what the next game might entail. So far all of my guesses have been wrong...

I just completely avoid the previews. The ones at the beginning of the episode, during the episode, the next episode preview etc. The show is much more fun that way, since previews/flash forwards spoil way too much. Btw, if you are talking about the next episode preview here, please mention before your spoiler tags that you're doing so. I moused over spoiler tags on the previous page naturally assuming they were about the episode that's just aired, only to find a comment about the next episode from a preview that apparently gives away too much. That kind of sucks.

Anyway, this episode. I thought the main match game wasn't very strong. Any game where a random person deciding to betray their team can so strongly dictate the outcome is a bad game since it removes a lot of what makes the Genius so good, the ability (or incentive, rather) of the players to find loopholes. Another reason it was ill-conceived was because the team who got to go first at defending had an absolutely enormous advantage because they knew how many points were necessary to win. The team that had that right should have been determined by the total garnet count of the constituent team members or something.

That said, there were still a number of cool moments. Jinho strutting out as a team captain before he was officially declared as such was pretty hilarious. Yoonsun was also pretty awesome when she instantly picked up on the betrayal from the comment made when she was being interviewed (though maybe it was more obvious than the translation would suggest given that Hongchul was seemingly deliberately sabotaging Eunkyul).

Of course, the best moment was Jinho shuffling the deck. I think this is the first time we've seen someone use the fact that the show airs during the time between matches to trick someone. It's made me wonder before; it's actually against the contestants interests to explain (during candids) anything related to success during death matches, since these death matches could be repeated and those techniques used against you (or by someone you don't want to survive). For example, in season 1 Jinho probably gave away too much about his strategy for Indian Poker, since it was then copied by Kyungran. But here, it seemed like after using the stack height information in Hongchul's deathmatch, he knew the other contestants would see that he did that, and try to replicate it. So he used that information, and bam. Not that it affected the outcome given who was eliminated and who he was supporting, but still. Pretty cool.

Zythrst
May 31, 2011

Time to join a revolution son, its going to be yooge!

Great episode, in fact I'm even starting to like Junghyun now. I do agree that both games weren't the strongest this week, but it still allowed Jinho and Yoonsun to be awesome this week. Especially liked Jinho's rightous anger speech.

Knives and Hot Dust
Feb 20, 2010

metal gear??!?

Sangmin: I hope you will be able to guess my choice with magic. Pretty good episode and the person that I wanted to get eliminated got elminated. What's with the hate on Jiwon?

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Hahah, man, could Eunkyul be any more stereotypically evil? Dude wears all black AND shades too.

I think they could have balanced out the game by not eliminating the people that get caught. That could have given Yoonsun enough time to realize there was a real traitor among their ranks.

Teddybear
May 16, 2009

The Corgiest Teddybear



Lipstick Apathy

Aaaaargh. Part two won't play! It keeps saying that the file is corrupted or doesn't work or something.

Palooka
Mar 13, 2005

MUST...WATCH...ALL...TV


Teddybear posted:

Aaaaargh. Part two won't play! It keeps saying that the file is corrupted or doesn't work or something.

I had this problem on my iPad and switching to my macbook it was filled with artifacts and noise. I ended up fixing it by moving down to 480 quality (button on the top right corner of the video), so try that.

Side question - does anyone know the name of the song playing at 3:15 of part 2, when they're doing the first interview for a death match candidate? Couldn't find it through google lyric hunting.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001


That was a wonderful way to finish, the worst player getting :commisar: by the best. Eunkyul was really not doing anything of use in the show, just lurking in the background with his shades and trying to tower over people to pressure them. For someone who is a stage magician I really expected him to have more of a presence.

If The Good Wife ever gets remade in Korea they would have an excellent lead in Yoonsun, she's fierce and really sharp.

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Knives and Hot Dust posted:

What's with the hate on Jiwon?

I don't get this either. People hate him because he's bad at the game I guess? Dude is actually a pretty funny/entertaining/nice guy on other variety shows and I knew Hongchul would have his back in the end because they've been really close friends for years and he probably resented being forced to payback the spy with eliminating his good friend for no reason.

Femur
Jan 10, 2004
I REALLY NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP


Great episode, even through the game was kinda of eh, the interactions made it fun.

And I don't think they would really spoiler things like that in the preview at the end, I bet it's a fake out.

In the deathmatch game, is there any mathematical benefit to timing it so you go 1st when it's your allies turn? That way you can control the bets? The 2nd player has to bet 2x, so you can trap him with 2 wrong bets right? I think this is one of the better deathmatch game; but the players have not been playing each other; the results is very dependent on allies; but I feel that it could be gamed.

MisterZimbu posted:


His information wasn't really a "request", though; it was new valid information about the guests that wasn't there before. He wasn't asking them to lie and say that they touched hands. He actually touched hands, and reinforced it verbally so they would remember it.


Well, that is part of how loosely you interpret the rules. Jinho's method was very simple, and game breaking, and I feel the rules covered such a loophole if interpreted a little differently. There is no replay value to the game with Jinho's way; it's not even really a game any longer. But this is probably one of those what is "cheap" debates, and I don't feel that strongly about this since I like Jinho from the start because he is a gamer, and he really struggled to find a group in the beginning, I can identify with that!

Femur fucked around with this message at Dec 31, 2013 around 11:12

Fuoco
Jan 3, 2009


Palooka posted:

Side question - does anyone know the name of the song playing at 3:15 of part 2, when they're doing the first interview for a death match candidate? Couldn't find it through google lyric hunting.

Coming Back by Gotye

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


I don't even really like Jinho (he kept eliminating people I liked more in S1) but I have to admit the stack shuffling was a . Happy it didn't pay off though, what the hell was that garbage? I'll make my team lose putting myself in extreme danger because I want to get rid of a mediocre player. Good riddance.

Jinho's role in this season is interesting, he's as hell about being the top dog but somehow it's not turning people against him unlike Kim Gura in S1.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by zen death robot


Lipstick Apathy

Tonfa posted:

I don't even really like Jinho (he kept eliminating people I liked more in S1) but I have to admit the stack shuffling was a . Happy it didn't pay off though, what the hell was that garbage? I'll make my team lose putting myself in extreme danger because I want to get rid of a mediocre player. Good riddance.

Jinho's role in this season is interesting, he's as hell about being the top dog but somehow it's not turning people against him unlike Kim Gura in S1.

Who would want to go to a death match with him? Anyone who will target Jinho will be subtle about it for sure.

Nexal
Apr 21, 2010

Moby - Extreme ways

JakeP posted:

Who would want to go to a death match with him? Anyone who will target Jinho will be subtle about it for sure.

Top of that if you are the one taking Jinho out of the game you are the new threat.

Arcanen
Dec 19, 2005



Well, they WERE openly conspiring about eliminating Jinho before he walked in. They might have attempted something had it not been a team match.

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



qbert posted:

I don't get this either. People hate him because he's bad at the game I guess?

He tries so hard and the good players are always two steps ahead of him...

JakeP posted:

Who would want to go to a death match with him? Anyone who will target Jinho will be subtle about it for sure.

No need to be subtle, every player in that game should want Jinho gone sooner rather than later.

NowonSA
Jul 19, 2013

I am the sexiest poster in the world!


In the 5:5 game, I choose to believe that Jinho's move was against the spirit of the rules, but the producers were so amazed by his Genius that they just played it off like it was totally a fine thing to do all along.

Loved the latest episode, though I expected them to back up the Magician, and was sad when they didn't. Yeah he did a scumbag move, and was a scumbag, but he handed you the win. Jinho was right to be mad that they left him out to dry.

Definitely looking forward to next week. Let the hacker contestant program the next game. Nothing can go wrong there! Next round will be starcraft matches

Darksaber
Oct 18, 2001

Are you even trying?


It'll never happen and it'll never work out, but one of the finals games being a SC match between Jinho and Boxer with added items or resources from all the eliminated players like last years finals would be the thing of legends. I sadly think Boxer's going out sooner rather than later though, he doesn't seem to do that much and ends up losing often, whereas the politician doesn't seem to do much but always ends up on the winning side.

I'm also already curious about who they'd get for the third season. I don't think they could really have Sangmin and Jinho back again, even if they won, and that seems to take a lot of the fun out of it. Then again it's not like I know poo poo about South Korean entertainers besides the obvious.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Nah, I think the 5:5 strategy was in line with the spirit of the rules; even the very first episode established that "if we don't explicitly forbid it, it's allowed"--they weren't told they could trade cards, but someone asked a dealer and they said yep, go ahead.

NowonSA
Jul 19, 2013

I am the sexiest poster in the world!


"I said I would give Jinho an extra 100 minerals, but I'm really giving it to you Boxer!"

Seriously though, Starcraft with legit power-up items sounds like the best finale ever. Let someone construct buildings 100% faster for one minute, give someone else a single ghost with a nuke at the 5 minute mark, etc.

We all know that Sun, Moon, Star is just code for Terran, Protoss, Zerg anyway, may as well make it explicit!

Cityinthesea
Aug 7, 2009


Thinking about it, it would be fantastic if Junghyun kept bumbling through and somehow made it to the final four or even the finals. I want Yoonsun to win but I really like Junghyun too.

NowonSA
Jul 19, 2013

I am the sexiest poster in the world!


I'm dreaming of a Hongchul vs. Jinho final. Hongchul's playfulness has been an act all along, and he morphs into an ice-cold killer in the final deathmatches. I'm also way intrigued about the super-secret immunity, which should hopefully be revealed as the best flashback twist the series has seen yet.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8


NowonSA posted:

Loved the latest episode, though I expected them to back up the Magician, and was sad when they didn't. Yeah he did a scumbag move, and was a scumbag, but he handed you the win. Jinho was right to be mad that they left him out to dry.

Agreein with this. Also I don't like Jiwon because he dresses like a huge douche.

Arcanen
Dec 19, 2005



NowonSA posted:

I'm dreaming of a Hongchul vs. Jinho final. Hongchul's playfulness has been an act all along, and he morphs into an ice-cold killer in the final deathmatches. I'm also way intrigued about the super-secret immunity, which should hopefully be revealed as the best flashback twist the series has seen yet.

There is absolutely no way someone hasn't already found it. I mean, Jinho has gotten, what, 4 clues now?

Also, what Jinho did in the 5:5 game was fine. They said that guests weren't required to do things asked of them by the players. So Sangmin asking the racegirl to wear a bracelet was a request (the funny thing is this was a proto version of what Jinho eventually did, Sangmin just didn't quite make that last step), but Jinho's things weren't really requests. The guests were required to tell the truth on the games, and telling them information like "my brothers name is x" was not a request as such. You could say agreeing to touch backs of hands was a request they could have denied, but in that case he'd have just used the "I told you that you were cute", "I told you my brothers name" etc.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


qbert posted:

I don't get this either. People hate him because he's bad at the game I guess?
Combination of that and being annoying/just rubbing me the wrong way. Plenty of useless players so far (Eunkyul - pity he got knocked out just as he actually started doing poo poo - Junghyun, Yohwan), but they can still be a bit fun to watch, or at least not actively grating.

I liked the episode in general though, agree that this wasn't among the best main games.

Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at Dec 31, 2013 around 18:39

Bankok
Sep 10, 2004

SPARTA!!!


Shakugan posted:

There is absolutely no way someone hasn't already found it. I mean, Jinho has gotten, what, 4 clues now?

They found the safe, they just don't know the combo yet.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by zen death robot


Lipstick Apathy

Random Stranger posted:

No need to be subtle, every player in that game should want Jinho gone sooner rather than later.

Well since he gets to pick his opponent the subtlety is to save your own rear end from having to participate in the first place. You have to figure if he gets picked he is picking someone who is actively targeting him.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Bankok posted:

They found the safe, they just don't know the combo yet.

That's just what the production wants us to think, probably. Well, at least if it's not found yet, it almost certainly will be found at least an episode before it's revealed, unless the finder happens to get chosen for death-match that same episode.

Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at Dec 31, 2013 around 19:50

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



JakeP posted:

Well since he gets to pick his opponent the subtlety is to save your own rear end from having to participate in the first place. You have to figure if he gets picked he is picking someone who is actively targeting him.

You or someone else is going to have to take him down eventually. If you can't beat every other player at least once in the game then you're not going to win. Trying to avoid the confrontation works in Jinho's favor; if everyone spends time attacking each other instead of him then he can ride into the late game where "everyone is targeting you" is less of a factor.

So target him and go for the deathmatch. Even if Jinho wins he has to do it again the next time he's vulnerable. And the next. And the next.

Insurrectionist posted:

That's just what the production wants us to think, probably. Well, at least if it's not found yet, it almost certainly will be found at least an episode before it's revealed, unless the finder happens to get chosen for death-match that same episode.

They're definitely going to keep the holder secret until it matters, but I'd bet that it'll be another episode or two before someone has opened the safe. If Jinho gets part of the combination I'm positive that'll just brute force it, for example.

Random Stranger fucked around with this message at Dec 31, 2013 around 20:30

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by zen death robot


Lipstick Apathy

Random Stranger posted:

You or someone else is going to have to take him down eventually. If you can't beat every other player at least once in the game then you're not going to win. Trying to avoid the confrontation works in Jinho's favor; if everyone spends time attacking each other instead of him then he can ride into the late game where "everyone is targeting you" is less of a factor.

So target him and go for the deathmatch. Even if Jinho wins he has to do it again the next time he's vulnerable. And the next. And the next.

But this is wrong though, people don't think this way. No one wants to sacrifice themself to get rid of Jinho, they want someone else to do it. You don't need to beat every other player to win. Kyungran went to the final last season winning only the final death match against Sangmin Sure avoiding Jinho benefits Jinho, but it also benefits the elimination candidate if they think they would have an easier time with another opponent.

Sangmin's anti-Jinho propeganda is great, but until he actually picks Jinho to face him in a deathmatch, it just sounds like he is warming up the other players to do his dirty work.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

PONYTAR
PONYTAR
PONYTAR




Yeah, at the end of the day if you want to win it doesn't matter if Jinho goes out in week 2 or week 11 and your chances against him aren't going to change if you take him on in week 2. Might as well keep him around and have him on your team until the late game.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by zen death robot


Lipstick Apathy

Rarity posted:

Yeah, at the end of the day if you want to win it doesn't matter if Jinho goes out in week 2 or week 11 and your chances against him aren't going to change if you take him on in week 2. Might as well keep him around and have him on your team until the late game.

Especially considering he is always trying to work with people, and has been pretty honest with his teamates. He was very upset when his team blew up their spies spot. He isn't a target because he is an untrustworthy backstabber, but just because he is a great competitor that is good in death matches. It really seems like a best friend/worst enemy situation, and I would rather have him on my team personally.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


JakeP posted:

Especially considering he is always trying to work with people, and has been pretty honest with his teamates. He was very upset when his team blew up their spies spot. He isn't a target because he is an untrustworthy backstabber, but just because he is a great competitor that is good in death matches. It really seems like a best friend/worst enemy situation, and I would rather have him on my team personally.

Another thing is considering individual game skill vs support and social skills. The best thing if you're confident in your individual abilities is to wait until later when there's little to no help for Jinho, and the best thing if you're confident in your support or social skills is to take him (and any other very able contestants) on early, rather than later - though making them lose to others is best still.

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.


I watched the first 3 episodes of season 1 last night. AMAZING show. Great to see how they take all of the rules and break them, and make some kind of metagame in which there are winners, traitors and clueless people. It was sad to see the dude who 'explained how the game worked' in the first 3 episodes, go down in the third.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


redreader posted:

I watched the first 3 episodes of season 1 last night. AMAZING show. Great to see how they take all of the rules and break them, and make some kind of metagame in which there are winners, traitors and clueless people. It was sad to see the dude who 'explained how the game worked' in the first 3 episodes, go down in the third.

Related, one of my favorite things about watching the show from start to current (obviously spoilers up until S2E4, sorry) is definitely seeing how much Jinho improves. He was practically helpless in the first 2 or so episodes of season 1, lost as the partner in episode 3's deathgame, and his only pro when it came to making allies was being reasonably honest and trustworthy. Going from that to the shrewd leader he's been in season 2, and the many masterstrokes (well, very smart ideas at least) he's delivered from the second half of season 1 and on, is impressive.

NowonSA
Jul 19, 2013

I am the sexiest poster in the world!


Yeah, for me the Genius has pretty much become the Jinho show. Every once and awhile someone else has a clever idea and impresses me, but Jinho's ideas and play are just consistently on another level. I really hope there's more games as good as the 5:5 game was last season. I loved what everyone came up with that, and almost every question asked/approach was brilliant in its own way. The closest game this season was probably the food chain game , but even that was a far cry from 5:5.

Corn Thongs
Feb 13, 2004



I didn't agree with Jinho in the latest episode (season 2 ep 4) because although betrayal is common and a part of the game, specifically wanting another player eliminated as a condition of your betrayal is way too personal and gives the betrayer too much power. You betray to save yourself, not to go on a power trip and demand a specific player get eliminated. I would've gone against him too at the end

doomisland
Oct 5, 2004



Donkay NOoo posted:

I didn't agree with Jinho in the latest episode (season 2 ep 4) because although betrayal is common and a part of the game, specifically wanting another player eliminated as a condition of your betrayal is way too personal and gives the betrayer too much power. You betray to save yourself, not to go on a power trip and demand a specific player get eliminated. I would've gone against him too at the end

I don't agree at all. If they had some moral objections then they could have refused his help but they didn't. If Eun Kyul wanted to target 3 people because they're all friends which can be become an issue later then he can do that if he wants.

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Highly Unnecessary
Dec 24, 2009



Latest episode chat.
I have a feeling Eunkyul just wanted to stir things up and make himself known and the reason he made them pick Jiwon for the death match is because Jiwon is the least likely to choose him as his death match partner.

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