Pillars of Eternity

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Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

rope kid posted:

The have cycling lists of low power, high AoE passive buffs and debuffs and they can periodically use invocations, which are pretty powerful spells.

Weren't those called Roars last time we heard about them? They're a great concept no matter what they're called, but that was pretty cool. You're walking around chanting random gibberish and you periodically break into huge screams, that sounds like a class I want to play.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2013 02:03

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 07:54

Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

rope kid posted:

They were, but invocations seemed more appropriate and allow us to do more, conceptually, with their effects. Roars were conceived of as almost entirely offensive blasts. Invocations are powerful spells of many types, but the intervals between using them are long -- and they can never be used at the start of a fight.

The whole system you're describing here seems like a really, really nice way to avoid the typical sucks-at-all-trades-master-of-none issue with a class like the chanter or bard. You do a bit of everything all the time, but periodically you pick one thing, any one thing of the many, many things you do, and nail it out of the goddamned park.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2013 04:16

Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

verybad posted:

The dude with a lute casts stronger spells than the man in a skirt (though fewer, and gains access slower and not to all of them) and with buffs fights better than the flaming sword guy.

Hannibal Rex posted:

Bards were awesome in IWD. In BG2, their main handicap was that they could only cast spells up to 6th level (8th in IWD); the faster advancement and higher casting level was pretty nice in BG1.

Yeah, I was mostly talking about bards from a BG2 2E/vanilla 3E perspective (don't know enough about 4E balance to make a call, I'm guessing they were balanced in it because that was basically the edition's Thing). I knew the Blade was considered extremely good, but the baseline bard is basically 1/3 of a fighter, mage, and thief each, and to get any one piece of that up to snuff requires more effort than necessary for most classes (buy a specific magic item to shore up your small spell list, use a ton of buffs to make you slightly above/around par with an unbuffed fighter, etc). I like the sound of being able to periodically nuke any given tactical role much more than this.
That said, I had no idea about the early stop on the domination train in BG1. That's completely broken in the best sort of way.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2013 16:48

Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

Captain Oblivious posted:

Jesus all this outcry over Intelligence determining damage. 4E long since broke me of associating with Strength as damage because in 4E, what stat provides bonus damage to your abilities is one hundred percent determined by your class and what abilities within those classes you are using.

Some Paladins use Charisma for bonus damage! On their most basic attack no less.

I think what makes PoE's version a potential issue for some people - and I want to make it clear that this is not a major issue, just the mental version of a flake of popcorn kernel stuck between two molars - is that 4E's classes used different ability scores as damage on a class-by-class basis. The Paladin uses his Charisma to righteous-shining-light-of-justice someone in the face, the Shaman's Wisdom fuels his ability to shove more potent spirits through your wazoo, the Barbarian's Strength lets him cleave twit in twain more effectively. Everybody gets their powerup from a different source that's thematically matched to their archetype and the manner in which it fights. As it is, PoE has it so everyone of all classes that wants to deal damage has to be smart, and although I think having a single 'deals damage' stat is perfectly fine, I think giving it such a historically (D&D) loaded name is not the best one. Aside from the 'swap Resolve and Intelligence" solution ('anime' be damned, Resolve sounds like something that's good for someone dealing damage regardless of their means in a world where your soul can make you hit things harder, and Intelligence improving all your attacks in a less straightforward way than just 'hurts more' feels right) I also like the really minimalist ones, like renaming it 'Ingenuity/Intuition/whatever' or something else that sounds less directly tied to IQ score and more applicable in causing murder.
Again, this is completely not the end of the world, and I actually have no problems with Strength having no real direct impact on damage dealt or really anything else about the attributes as they are right now. It's just a weird mental quibble.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 17:01

Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

Ranged weapons in general sound more restricted in usefulness than melee at the moment. What did Ropekid say guns were the best call for at the moment, a ranger or a rogue? If bows aren't much more open than that, that's a pretty small subsection of the classes that can put ranged weaponry to any use beyond "he's out of range, switch to Plink Mode."
EDIT: Argh, preempted.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2013 21:05

Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

Furism posted:

What looks like the Paladin companion on one of the artwork uses a gun. Didn't RK say all weapons are viable for all classes, some of them just make more sense for some classes. You wouldn't use a Gun on a Fighter since you lose the benefit of Disengage Attacks, for instance.

She was the priest, if I recall rightly.

Hand Row posted:

I get the feeling it would be a secondary option for a lot of classes. IE your Fighter is sent in right away to engage but your Rogue fires a shotgun blast before engaging in melee.

Guns in general seem (as far as I've heard last, maybe this is already totally different) to have a 'works quite well for this class' number of 2/10, but I wasn't so much wondering just about guns so much as I was curious to hear if other ranged weapons were similarly restrictive as a primary attack method. Some weapons being better for some than others, sure, but I'm curious if an entire mode of combat (ranged weaponry) is only really feasible for a fifth of the classes or not.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2013 21:43

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 07:54

Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

Yeah, any specific unique features aside, all weapons should be able to function as weapons, not just 'piece of crap used to overcome gameplay mechanic.'

# ¿ Dec 26, 2013 18:58

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