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Hi, I'm Patter Song. Welcome to Let's Play Victoria II: Heart of Darkness. Victoria II was released in 2010 as the successor of Paradox's 2003 Victoria title, and on release was noted both for a gorgeous map and graphic interface and confusing, counterintuitive, and flat-out bizarre interpretation of the events of the 19th century. Two expansions, 2012's A House Divided and 2013's Heart of Darkness, have come a long way in making Victoria II into a far superior game, though one that still has a number of baffling idiosyncrasies and counterintuitive mechanics. Aren't you that guy that did the Steppe Wolfe LP? And the World Stage one? Yes. I let's played the Steppe Wolfe mod of Europa Universalis III almost exactly a year ago, and this past April I used that same thread to look at the leaked demo of ubik's masterpiece Weren't there other LPs of Victoria II? Kersch, as always, did a splendid job with How the Hell do We Play Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness? Our own in-house Paradox dev Wiz is currently working his way through the Victoria II section of his epic multi-year thread Islam Is The Light, the tale of the So what do you bring to the table? For some crazy reason, I love this game and have clocked more hours in it than any other Paradox game. While no one truly understands some parts of the guts of Victoria II, not even the people that developed it, I think the game opens up possibilities for entertaining romps. Steppe Wolfe levels of entertaining? Admittedly, I have not yet seen Estonia raise a million man army and fight off the entire planet singlehandedly. Yet. V2 has a lot of things that aren't immediately obvious, and though it does give you all the tools necessary to understand what is going on, it will not explain how to use them. If you're suddenly transitioning from being absurdly wealthy to the verge of bankruptcy, there is likely an explanation, and it probably has something to do with something halfway around the world that you otherwise would have no interest in. So how are you going to tell this story? First off, I will not savescum in any way, what happens is what happens. If you guys pick a weak country on my list of possibilities (see below) and we get annexed, that's it. Depending on how I feel we may or may not go back and start from the beginning. However, to help myself understand what is going on and by extension, help you guys, I will be periodically saving and quitting and reloading into the game as various AI countries to get an idea of how their economic/military/political situation is shaping up. This will mostly be done for state of the world updates and could be viewed as cheating, but I view it as crucial to understanding how the world works. So who are we going to be? Unlike Europa Universalis IV, where you can pick any start date between November 11th, 1444 and January 1st, 1821, this game gives you two scenarios: January 1st, 1836 and July 1st, 1861. We will be using the first of the two bookmarks. The game ends in 1936, exactly 100 years after it starts. A country's status is measured by an index of three numbers: your Prestige, your Industry, and your Military. None of these numbers work exactly as you'd expect, but we'll get into that. The top 8 civilized countries in terms of score are Great Powers, with the ability to influence other nations. The second 8 are Secondary Powers, with the power to colonize. At the bottom are uncivilized nations, who need to Westernize to start truly playing the game. There is something called the buying order, which determines your position in the global market. It is, simply, highest civilized nation->lowest civilized nation->highest uncivilized nation->lowest uncivilized nation. The lower down on the food chain you are, the harder time you'll have buying things as people don't sell to people low on the buying order no matter how much cash they have unless they still have goods left over from those higher on the chain. Options presented in order from Easiest to Hardest. These are all some of my favorite V2 countries, I'm familiar with good strategies for all of them and will try to balance gameplay and story to present a compelling narrative and accomplish personal/group goals rather than ruthlessly powergame. I'm the sort of person who'd rather wreck Spain by forcing them to release the Philippines than try to wreck Spain by taking away Catalonia, if that makes sense. Don't expect us to take...too much land that has no accepted/primary culture pops. The weaker the state you pick, the more aggressive I'll have to be to build us into a Great Power. EASY: A. Austria  Historically, the Habsburg realms started off 1836 "ruled" by the mentally incompetent Emperor Ferdinand I and his ruthless, Machiavellian strategist Prince Klemens von Metternich. Metternich was dedicated to preserving the peace in Europe by crushing liberalism and preserving a Concert system where the great powers would gather to discuss and peacefully sort out their differences. The rise of nationalism and demands for political reforms would bring Austria to crisis again and again, however, and as soon as 1848-49 Austria nearly lost its Italian gains from the Napoleonic Wars and the entire Hungarian half of its Empire and Ferdinand and Metternich was forced to abdicate. Let's see if we can do better. Pros: Can form mega-Germany. (Depending on the circumstances, I'd prefer not to break the game in half by doing that) Has some of the best natural resources in the game. Large starting population. Starts off as a Great Power. Can form Austria-Hungary as a consolation prize if Prussia forms Germany, giving Hungarian as an Accepted Culture and making the ethnic dynamic far simpler. Cons: Prussia has ridiculous super-soldiers and will be coming after you. At some point if the Italians get their act together they'll hate you, likely align with Prussia, and put you in a very precarious situation. Our vast horde of wrong-culture illiterate peasants in the Hungarian hinterland give us a very low starting literacy. Bavaria  Bavaria gained a nice promotion to royal status in the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars. We are ruled by mad King Ludwig, who loves building pretty fairy-tale castles and funding lavish Wagnerian operas at taxpayer expense while he parties with Pros: Ridiculous prestige advantages and can easily bubble into Great Power status. Can form a South German Federation to annex Baden and Wurtemburg and become a far more powerful state that can go toe-to-toe with Prussia and Austria. One of the most literate populations in the world. Cons: Neither Austria nor Prussia are interested in you becoming too big for your britches...both will try to smack you down. If Prussia forms North German Federation, you are severely limited in your options. No ports to colonize from unless you take some from Austria or Form Germany. MEDIUM: C. Mexico  Mexico achieved independence from Spain in 1821, but after years of turmoil the short-lived First Mexican Empire collapsed and the southern parts of it formed the similarly short-lived United States of Central America. Mexico established a republican constitution in 1824 but had problems with its gigantic landmass, much of which was still populated heavily by Natives, some of which were quite hostile to their mostly-theoretical Mexican government. Recently we fell under the rule of the strong-armed dicator Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 time president of Mexico. Santa Anna is a somewhat incompetent buffoon who nevertheless sees himself as the Napoleon of the West. Recently, a group of Anglo settlers in our northern province of Tejas have rebelled, citing opposition to our state Catholic Church and prohibition of slavery. The Yanquis are watching developments in Texas quite closely, and we will have to move carefully. Pros: Gigantic country with natural resources...if we keep Texas it'll have oil in the late game. Can invite Maximilian von Habsburg to take the throne as Emperor of Mexico. Theoretically. I'm not sure this is ever a good decision. In fact, this doesn't belong in the pro column. Theoretically, can be a strong colonial power in Africa. Cons: "Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!" -Porfirio Diaz Deeply reactionary government leads to low immigration with little chance of reform except through a violent rebellion. Seriously, our northern neighbor hungers for our land. Keep that in mind at all times. D. Colombia  The first-born of the Latin American revolutionary republics, Colombia is not the success story it was a few years ago. In 1830, our founder Simon Bolivar's dream of a united state in northern Latin America was shattered as Ecuador and Venezuela seceded from Gran Colombia. On our own, we have plentiful fruit and coffee, both of which are solid exports, but little in the way of hard industrial goods (our neighbor Venezuela will get oil at the end of the game). Pros: Can reform Gran Colombia and become a serious contender. This is very difficult. If we become a Great Power we can build and own the Panama Canal. No Yanqui ownership of this critical passage! Cons: Great Britain usually takes Venezuela under its wing, making it difficult to take. Brazil is a raging jerk. With a limited population, bloody wars can utterly wreck a country in this region. Even victory can be brutally costly. Like Mexico, we're going to need a violent revolution to get an immigration-friendly regime in power. HARD: E. Johore:  The loss of much of the Malay coast to the Dutch, including the major ports of Malacca and Singapore, was not a pleasant experience for Johore, and the transitioning of those ports from the Dutch to the British did little to change matters. Our rump state is incredibly wealthy, even more so than the other Malay states, but our wealth attracts covetous eyes from colonial oppressors in Amsterdam and London. Can we wiggle through to reclaim our birthright and lead a union of the Malays to a major contender power on the world stage? Pros: More money than you can ever spend. Early game precious metal and tropical wood, late game rubber. Too bad we're so far down on the buying order that no one will sell us anything and we have to starve on our piles of gold. Easy targets with lots of our primary culture abound...if we can ever buy enough parts to build some boats. Cons: Tiny population that's usually starving and shrinking leads to a very small military and the need to be opportunistic. Uncivilized, have to Westernize. If Britain or the Dutch decide to come after us in the early game, it's probably over. F. Nejd  In the 18th century, an alliance between the new Wahhabi sect and the Sa'ud family created a powerful short-lived First Saudi State that conquered the Hedjaz and was only beaten back by Ottoman intervention. The Saudi family has had their eyes on that sacred strip of desert for generations and are ready to make another move and create a new state to unite all the Arabs, but neither the Ottomans nor the Europeans wish to see that happen. Pros: Forming Arabia is easy and gives you cores on pretty much anything you'd expect it to, from Morocco to Iraq (except the Libyan Coastline for some reason) Late game oil. Cons: Ottomans really don't want you getting Hedjaz. Uncivilized, have to Westernize. Very low population. Spain has an obsession with getting a colonial empire in Arabia. Expect the Spanish Inquisition. INSANE: G. Zulu Our great founder Shaka Zulu passed away less than a decade ago, but his legacy produced a powerful, militaristic African kingdom ready to defend against the interlopers. Weak Boer states are our neighbors, but also powerful British settlements on the Cape and Portuguese settlements in Mozambique, either of which could eye our kingdom. War is coming.  Pros: Highly militarized society. Weak prey in Oranje and Transvaal. Gold in Transvaal. Cons: Uncivilized, need to Westernize. Small population means that military losses, even from attrition, are hard to replace and even a successful campaign can leave us dangerously undermanned. Portugal and Britain both want us dead. LITERACY: A. Austria. 16.1% B. Bavaria. 70.0%(!) C. Mexico. 12.4% D. Colombia. 9.0% E. Johore. 2.0% F. Nejd. 1.0%(!) G. Zulu. 5.3% I'll leave voting open until tomorrow. I realize that seven choices is a lot, but I feel that the entire range of V2 is present in these seven. Feel free to ask questions! I look forward to getting started. Table of Content will be added below in this post once the game starts. TABLE OF CONTENTS: Bavaria (FINISHED!) Chapter I: Humble Beginnings: 1836 Chapter II: The Reunited Kingdom of the Netherlands: 1836-1842 Chapter III: Oligarchy and Its Discontents: 1842-1850 Chapter IV: There's Always A Greater Power: 1850-1858 Chapter V: A Sad State of Affairs: 1858-1869 Chapter VI: The South German Federation 1869-1875 Chapter VII: The Great Alpine War 1875-1883 Chapter VIII: The Follies of War 1883-1887 Chapter IX: Peace, Bread, Work, and Votes 1887-1895 Chapter X: Socialism, Feminism, and Imperialism? 1895-1900 Chapter XI: Also Sprach Zarathustra: 1900-1906 Chapter XII: The Great War 1906-1914 Chapter XIII: The Great War II: Russia's Revenge 1914-1916 Chapter XIV: A Five Year Truce (1916-1921) Chapter XV: The War to End All Wars...? (1921-1926) Chapter XVI: Life Among the Bohemians (1926-1931) Chapter XVII: Writer's Block (1931-1936) Chapter XVIII: Epilogue! Secret Denmark: Mexico (Canceled!) Chapter I: It's A Secret To Everybody Chapter II: The Rise of Krakow (January-August 1836) Chapter III: To Jamaica (August 1836-February 1845) BONUS: East vs West: Iraq (Finished!) East vs West was a cancelled title produced by Paradox Interactive and developed by BLLogic about the Cold War. Why was it cancelled? Let's find out. Chapter I: Before the Storm Chapter II: The Iran Iraq War Chapter III: Downfall Patter Song fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2013 20:50
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Beamed posted:I vote Johore, and if I'm allowed a backup, Austria, as I'm very interested in a Johore game but also think Austria is a good way to show off Victoria 2. Iron Cross doesn't really agree with my computer. Or with me.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:58
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TheMcD posted:
No mods, at least for the first runthrough. (This statement does not promise a second runthrough, but it leaves the door open) Rumda posted:Zulu I'm going to take this as an option to let me pick which of those you want to vote for. Just so you know.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:00
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Adding this info, will put it into the OP, let me know if there's anything else you want to know about the countries. LITERACY: A. Austria. 16.1% B. Bavaria. 70.0%(!) C. Mexico. 12.4% D. Colombia. 9.0% E. Johore. 2.0% F. Nejd. 1.0%(!) G. Zulu. 5.3% Some of V2's literacy rates are a bit eyebrow-raising, like Afghanistan's 18.3% literacy at start, which is shockingly high for its region.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:41
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Perhaps if I do a second round of this in this thread (V2 is not that long a game) the voting round would be between releasing/playing as a country on day 1 and put fan-favorites like Catalonia, Ireland, Bohemia, Iraq, Jan Mayen, Cherokee, and Ukraine into the mix. 
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Dec 17, 2013 00:01
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TheMcD posted:Gotta be Iraq. You can form loving Babylon, how is that not the best thing ever? Ireland gets to start out with UK's super-technology. Sadly, Ireland's only resources are fish and cattle, so industrializing might be a challenge.
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Dec 17, 2013 00:05
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TheMcD posted:Still, if you can't form the SGF, yeah, then you're hosed. There's also gamey abuse of "Crown from the Gutter" to let yourself become "Germany" early and start annexing the minors with all your free cores, usually by waiting until France and Prussia are at war and then DOWing Prussia and adding "Restore Order" CB to every individual minor and then Prussia itself while the Prussian army's marching around Normandy. Yes, I've done that, and no, that's not what I'll do here. Crown From the Gutter Germany is a Con Mon with the Republic flag and liberal political reforms, and Mad King Ludwig isn't going to take that unless there's no other option.
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Dec 17, 2013 00:39
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I'm calling it. I'm counting 19 Bavaria, 16 Zulu, no one else close. Anyone care to double-check that? Sorry to all you Zulu/Johore fans, we'll be going with Bavaria. Bavaria was actually my first-ever V2 game, back in V2 vanilla. Bavaria's since been nerfed somewhat to prevent it from breaking up German unification, but even with the nerfs it's still one of the best tags around for technological and cultural domination. Bavaria's 70% literacy (was 80% in earlier versions of V2) give it an early edge in teching and research and its three state setup allows it a reasonable shot at achieving Great Power status on its own merits even in AI hands. However, Bavaria has one glaring problem. If it has all the South German lands owned or sphered, it will annex Baden and Wurtemburg (and Austria if it happens to be in Bavaria's sphere) and form the South German Federation. However, if you look at the map on the first page, one South German province, the traditional Hohenzollern family holding of Sigmaringen, is in Prussian hands. If we want to have any shot at this, we need to somehow pry that out of Prussia's hands. It gets worse: if we aren't a Great Power when we get Sigmaringen, we'll probably be in Austria's sphere. If we take it then, Austria will enact it's Form South German Federation decision, which annexes us, Baden, and Wurtemburg and releases the SGF in its place as a puppet of Austria. This would be game over for us. We need to take Sigmarignen, but not too early...but if we wait too long, Prussia will form the North German Federation and become a military behemoth. Bavaria is all about needling this narrow gap.
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Dec 17, 2013 16:46
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Xenoborg posted:I've always wondered how historical this was. It would probably be too easy for Austria to form the SGF without it, but I've always thought it was weird that Prussia had that little enclave surrounded by south Germans who start in Austria's Sphere. The idea of Bavaria, Baden, and Wurttemberg getting together and deciding to form a South German state independent of Berlin or Vienna, but balking upon the realization that a tiny bit of Württemberg is in Prussian hands is hilarious.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:50
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm fairly certain that any decision or event that annexes other nations has a flag that excludes any player-controlled nation. I know for a fact that the US can't annex player-controlled Hawaii by decision, at least. If you play the game as Saxe-Nowheresburg or whatever, you almost definitely will be hit by the NGF event where you can join and lose or not join and face imminent Prussian invasion. Similarly if you're Two Sicilies you can get the Garibaldi took some random town in Tuscany over and now all the other Italians are submitting to Piedmont-Sardinia, are you in event and if you say no the Italians will try to invade.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:20
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Chapter I: Humble Beginnings 1836 Welcome to Bavaria! His Majesty is reviewing the progress on the construction of the Walhalla, but while he's out I'm pleased to welcome such exalted guests to tour the newly-rebuilt royal palace. His Majesty is very, very fond of architecture, as I'm sure you have heard by now. Anyway, Bavaria is divided into three states, each of which is further subdivided into provinces. Bayern state, or Old Bavaria as we sometimes call it, is the southern part of the realm, mostly containing grain and cattle but with some coal deposits. Franken state, or Franconia, is filled with fruit, cattle, and grain and is an agricultural wonderland. Finally, there is the province of Kaiserslauten which we obtained a century ago upon inheriting the Palatinate. We call its administrative region "Bavarian Rhineland." They grow fruit there. At some point we'll need to talk to Baden about gaining military access in order to protect Kaiserslauten, but the King doesn't feel that we have any pressing need to do this right this instant.  In the aftermath of the end of the Napoleonic Confederation of the Rhine, the former Holy Roman Empire was reorganized into a 39-member German Confederation and a number of its rulers, including our Bavaria, were elevated to royal status. The two "poles" of the German Confederation are Prussia in the north and Austria in the south. Prussia recently launched an ambitious free-trade zone named the Zollverein, a tariff-free zone that nearly all the north German minors participate in that lessens their economic independence and cements Prussian dominance. Our court is loyal to Prince Metternich and Austria, as are Baden and Wurtemburg and the North German minor Saxony, the only free holdout in the North against Prussia. There is also the matter of Hannover, which is ruled by the King of Great Britain and Ireland. Hannover is on Salic law and William's successor appears to be a woman, Princess Alexandrina Victoria. At any time, William IV could die and Hannover's century-long union with Britain could end, leading Hannover vulnerable to Prussian influence. Finally, there is the matter of Denmark, which maintains Holstein as a puppet and holds German land in Schleswig. Prussia seeks to liberate these lands as well, but might be satisfied by just having Copenhagen kneel to Berlin.  We are weak, Austria is strong. For now. See this as an insurance policy.  You might have noticed in the diplomatic image above a list of the 10 most respected countries on the planet. Well here are the second ten...Bavaria's a meager #19. Hopefully this will change going forward! King Ludwig is already discussing expanding the armed forces and turning Munich and Bayreuth into the centers of culture in all Germany, and in time we may seek to set up an industry as well.  We aren't producing too terribly much at the moment, but our Artisans are hard at work hammering out goods. They're inefficient, but they have their place.  Economic apocalypse looms, but doesn't it always? It's time to increase taxes heavily...people only really pay around 23% of what they're taxed, for some reason, so why not make the taxes 100%? Some day we'll crack down on the tax dodgers. In the mean time, we are likely to go into an absolutely massive amount of debt. Austria's "protection" of us means that we cannot put taxes on imports/exports to Austria and no one else is buying our goods at the moment, so tariffs are useless. This may not always be true.   Bavaria is still a small country in terms of population, but we hope to grow. As you can see, it is 72.1% Catholic (and 0.2% Jewish)...Bavarians never developed the Lutheran hysteria the way our northern cousins did. Almost everyone works in the fields or mines...we're going to need to increase the share of our population that are working in clergy positions, bureaucracy, and the military if we want to compete in the short term, and possibly craftsmen when we have the capital necessary to industrialize.      Bavaria is truly with the times technologically. Corporative Industrialism means that we don't research military techniques as well: army technology moves 5% slower and navy technology moves a whole 10% slower, but then again, we're landlocked! Cultural technology moves at a standard speed, Commerce technology is researched 5% faster, and Industrial technology comes along a whopping 15% faster. At the moment, we need to figure out all the new doctrines and ideologies that people have been discussing, as they might encourage our plurality.  What is plurality? Glad you asked!    Increasing our plurality will increase our research speed. Bavaria is a country that respects order, and at the moment, has no territorial claims on other lands so no one in the country feels any special need for revenge.  We don't have parties, per se, but we do have factions. The Conservative one was in charge yesterday, but I just got word that I'm to put the Reactionaries in charge. One second...  The Nationale Partei has no objection to the government deciding to build factories in the national interest, and the king is pondering doing that at some point in the future when the country's not vastly in debt.   Possible options for the future...we are preparing quite the fest when the Walhalla opens.  The King has already ordered recruitment of new brigades and the replacing of some of our old infantry brigades with artillery. Bavaria is going to raise a world-class army if it has to go 5,000 pounds into debt to do so!  Currently, two major powers are at war to reclaim land from rebel secessionists. We wish them both luck. That concludes our tour. I hope you'll be back soon! His Majesty apologizes for not meeting with you in person, maybe next time. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Dec 18, 2013 |
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Dec 18, 2013 00:44
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ZearothK posted:That's an interesting first move with the tech. I usually open with either Medicine or Romanticism to get the prestige necessary to become a GP and so have the ability to use tariffs to finance my country, but increasing plurality at this point might be a better long-term strategy, now that I think of it and I imagine you want that third national focus to have a finer control of your POPs. There's not a lot of points in Romanticism, and the cost of a tier-3 tech will deter other people from investing in Realism for a while. I'll rush through those in the early 1840s. Medicine is after Ideological Thought...Medicine is a must have, as you say. There are absolutely devastating epidemic events that fire all the time. They happen half as often after you have Medicine and cease after you get Inorganic Chemistry. In addition, Medicine boosts your population growth rate by like 6%. There are several real winners in the early techs. Mechanical Production has inventions that will improve your agriculture by like 30% or so, Muzzle Loaded Rifles introduce the Engineer, one of my favorite units, and you can't go wrong with Army Professionalism. For those that don't know, in addition to the tech itself, you also unlock a monthly chance of activating a variety of inventions. Ideological thought can do wonders for you by unlocking a ton of Plurality and Political Reform Desire. As Bavaria shifts away from Absolute Monarchy, the thread may slowly gain more of a voice. Just something to keep in mind. At the moment, you guys are King Ludwig's appointed, advisory-only Upper House and he'll feel free to disregard you.
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Dec 18, 2013 03:13
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Next update is played, writing it. It'll be a long one, but I wanted to get us up to a vote.
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Dec 18, 2013 16:17
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Quite right, got the two of them mixed up in my head re: Ludwig I and II.
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Dec 18, 2013 19:50
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Chapter II: The Reunited Kingdom of the Netherlands: 1836-1842 The last six years have been quite busy, have they not? While our army was reforming its numbers in 1836, our diplomats watched as a number of global hotspots broke into all-out war.   The Bolivian wars, I'm sure you remember, pitted Bolivia and Peru against Brazil and Chile, and later Bolivia and Peru vs Argentina. Between them they lasted almost the entire last few years and left all of South America a depopulated hellscape. Though Bolivia lost the former war, losing its Amazonian holdings to Brazil and its coastline to Chile, it defeated Argentina, pushing its southern border further down. Countless South Americans died in this conflict and it might have repercussions for decades. Brazil then promptly invaded Paraguay and seized half of that country, but today, in 1842, Brazil's military is so drained that it can barely sustain a three-regiment army, which is still somehow the largest military south of Mexico.  In Central Asia, in one of the briefest wars ever, Afghanistan retook the province of Balkh from the Bukkharan khanate. Within two weeks the Bukkharans realized they stood no chance and withdrew.  The Ottomans finished off Tripoli and reclaimed Adana from Muhammad Ali Pasha's Egypt, spelling the end of Muhammad Ali's dream of taking Constantinople and putting his Levantine territory in jeopardy.   In a brutal 18 month war, the United States stepped in vs Mexico and secured the independence of the Republic of Texas, which promptly joined the Union.  But enough of those stories, you wish to hear of events in Europe, and events in Bavaria. Well, as the whole world knows, we spent the majority of this period in significant debt that is only now mostly paid off...the cost of the upscaling of the military His Majesty ordered. Our military expanded to 10 regiments, and in the years 1836-1842 has since ballooned all the way to 17, with His Majesty's goal of an even 20 regiments rapidly approaching. After expanding education and bureaucratic needs, the state has been pouring money into encouraging more young men to a military career.    News from the north proved quite interesting. The Dutch had never accepted the loss of Belgium in 1830, and sought a powerful ally to restore their southern provinces...the Kingdom of Prussia. The British, opposed to another powerful Dutch state controlling the mouths of important trade rivers, would not accept this and went to war with the Dutch and Prussians to preserve Belgian neutrality. However, no one else seemed interested in helping the British do so, not even their Austrian allies.     Both the UK and Prussia had powerful militaries, and in a short time, the entire Dutch navy was sunk by the British, but Prussian landpower meant that Britain's brave landings, even the sacking of Rotterdam and Maastricht, were rapidly undone by the Prussian army.   The United Kingdom overconfidently declared their intention to annex Suriname in the war (giving northern Maine to the United States to make the deal look less greedy) while the Prussians declared their intent to make London look like fools for taking on a continental war it couldn't win.   News that the state of Bastar had fallen to the Doctrine of Lapse met little interest except among hardcore advocates of divine right monarchy, as the idea that a governor from Britain could tell a king, even a king in India, that he could not determine his own succession was anathema. Years later, the British did the same with Orissa, not yet pictured on our map.   France, alarmed by the competency of Prussia's army facing the British, decided to ally with Russia for protection. Prussia sought a counterbalance to the French in Spain.   1838, as we all know, saw the end of the neutral Kingdom of Belgium, but not the end of the war, as Britain valiantly fought on to liberate its former ally while Prussia sought to Humiliate the United Kingdom for its hubris.   The slavery crisis continued to bring news from the United States, showing a Congress with amazing dedication to rapidly passing large amounts of controversial legislation.    As we watched the war abroad, the social war at home became problematic. A new age had dawned, and Bavaria had to act if it would survive it.  Liberal dissidents met in private and in public.      Some even called for Revolution!   Luckily our clergy stood by our side.   Bowing to popular pressure, the King wisely ordered the end of the state monopoly on newspapers, however, he ordered government censorship continue. This move has gone some way to quelling the protests, but does little about their root causes.  The death of King William IV of the United Kingdom proved a result of hearing about the tragic defeat of the First Flanders Expeditionary Force, crushed by Prussia. The rise of Queen Victoria broke Britain's ties with Hannover, allowing the Prussians to seek to bring Hannover into the Zollverein. Ominously, the King of Saxony renounced his allegiance to Austria, leaving Austria with no influence in North Germany.   The discovery of Ideological Thought did little to quell popular disturbances, but did lead to many new ways of thinking about politics and government. Research to further Medical technology immediately commenced.     Seeing the turmoil in Europe between Britain and Prussia as the perfect time to expand its holdings in North Africa, France launched a two-week campaign to secure the Tlemcen region from Algiers, leaving the once-proud state limited to a patch of desert. The French king then invaded Morocco, seizing the Taza region.     Britain finally conceded military defeat in 1840, but did not concede diplomatic defeat. In 1841, Britain called a meeting of the Concert of Europe to advocate for the restoration of Belgium. With Russia and Spain opposed and Austria and Turkey noncommittal, Britain had to make yet another humiliating concession.     The discovery of new medical techniques rapidly boosted the Bavarian population. With more people and more agricultural output, more people bought Bavarian goods outside of Austria, finally making tariffs a worthwhile investment and allowing us to eliminate the national debt...for now.      We rapidly researched the new philosophical doctrine of Idealism and then shifted to catching up with the new Romantic art trends sweeping Europe. At the moment, we are currently preparing to unveil a new art movement, Realism, that will take the world by storm.      The big event of this past year was, of course, the opening of the Walhalla. Crowds from around the continent have come to gaze in awe at this magnificent structure.   Spain is preparing to take advantage of Morocco's misfortune and invade...there is no chance that Morocco can hold off Spain, and the growing power of the maritime colonial empires gives us pause here in our landlocked realm.  Luckily, a recently-published collection of the works of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel has inspired intellectual discussion never before heard in Munich. Times are interesting, and will become more so in the new year.  I have a message to you from His Majesty, King Ludwig.  "In a storm, the tree that bends is less likely to break. We have no intention of opening up elections or enacting policies that lessen our sovereignty over this land, but the time has come where we must consider other alterations to preserve our state and beat off the Revolutionary menace. I leave it to you to decide which course to take."  "Under no circumstances will we allow the degenerate practice of voting, but we may take one of the following reforms." A. "Already last year I opened up private presses for the first time. This has met with general approval, but many journalists chafe under state censorship and request that we completely free the press." B. "Others say that we should allow the workers to form combinations under the careful eye of the state to collectively negotiate wages with their employers." C. "Still others say that forcing dissident factions to operate in the shadows makes them more dangerous and that bringing them out into the open would make them easier to watch and less dangerous." D. "Some of you insist that no reform at all is the right option. This course is dangerous, but is also bold and principled and we applaud it." "We trust you will make the right decision." STATUS OF BAVARIA    THE WORLD, 1842 
Patter Song fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 18, 2013 |
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Dec 18, 2013 20:48
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I'll be calling the vote about six hours from now because I intend to play the next update tonight.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:16
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double nine posted:I see no reason to censor the intellectual debate in our great nation. A is the least dangerous reform that will placate the rabble. Do it as much as you want. I just wanted to keep it vague for the vote, but in general, all reforms increase immigration attraction (which, in an Old World country, works the opposite way and decreases emigration...we'll never have people moving to us, but fewer of us will pack off to the USA). Free Press will increase Literacy's impact on Consciousness (our very literate population will become considerably more radical), Unions will increase Social Reform demand (and eventually incline people to Socialism/Communism), and reforming the parties will do...pretty much nothing, at the moment, because we aren't voting. Once we do start voting it'll reduce the ruling party's incumbency advantage.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:57
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Keep this in mind. A full 1/7th of the population is already saying that starting up elections is the thing they care most about. How long can I keep up buying off the people with token concessions? 1.3% desire Free Press most and there's negligible support for State Unions or Harassed parties.
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Dec 18, 2013 23:54
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Xenoborg posted:This is quite worrying. Whats the status of Holstein? Are there any other North Germans not under Prussia? NGF will form within the next two years, all it has to do is sphere Denmark. Exciting times are upon us!
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Dec 19, 2013 01:58
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SickZip posted:That Russian French alliance is bad news for Prussia and good news for you. They'll form NGF fairly quick, especially since Austria allied with Great Britain (aka the worst ally in the game), but they'll probably only form Germany if that alliance bloc falls apart. There's no way they're going to form Germany, as that requires having all the provinces with German Empire cores either owned or in their Sphere of Influence, and by the time they get in the position to do so, Bavaria will be a Great Power not in anyone's SOI.  I'm fully confident that my Realist painters and soon-to-be-constructed Liquor distilleries will do their part to help me overtake the likes of Spain, and then NGF can conquer Alsace-Lorraine all it wants, it's not going to do them any good.
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Dec 19, 2013 02:05
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A wins, we are entering a bold new era of press barons able to slander the government with totally untrue accusations and gossip about the totally legitimate personal lives of the powerful and well-to-do.
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Dec 19, 2013 06:21
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Expect an update tonight.
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Dec 20, 2013 21:25
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Chapter III: Oligarchy and its Discontents: 1842-1850 Oh, you're back! The gentlemen from Munich Rail, right? Seeking a government partnership for the new line in Regensburg? His Majesty the King of...the Bavarians, I believe the new title goes, would be thrilled to see you. Court's not as impressive as it was in his father's time. No one back in 1842 would dream the day would come when the King would wear business attire, or be forced to use the first-person singular. But your audience isn't for another half hour...would you care to discuss the late revolution and how things changed so drastically?  I'm sure you remember the day. January 2nd, 1842. His Majesty...the previous His Majesty, that is, announced that all papers in Bavaria were hereby free. The masses, clamoring for a say in affairs and gaining a voice to criticize affairs instead, grew increasingly restless and demanded further concessions. His Majesty, looking to calm them, made the fatal error of offering further concessions: state-managed labor unions. The public desired neither of these concessions, but the concessions made the state appear weak, and the masses begun to gather in armed revolutionary societies, some calling for a full Constitutional Monarchy and the absolute curtailing of royal authority, and some radicals even calling for annexation by Prussia into a greater German state.   In the midst of the American invasion of Mexico, the world had its first taste of a true revolution in decades as El Salvador refused to join in a war as a lapdog of American imperialism and renounced membership in the United States of Central America, critically weakening the USA's junior partner. Though the USA won the war and annexed Colorado, it was not able to prevent the further dismembering of its junior ally by Colombia. Meanwhile, Spain expanded its holdings in Morocco.       Despite the advanced medical technology of Bavaria, smallpox continued to run unchecked, and poverty and starvation from the famines of the Hungry Forties began, launching a pattern that would haunt Bavaria through the rest of the decade.    Artistic and philosophical discoveries did nothing to quell the discontent, though a new piece by visiting Hungarian composer Franz Liszt that debuted in Munich in 1843 put Bavaria on the map again for reasons other than despair and misery. Meanwhile, the court wondered whether the widely-hailed Proto-Existentialist movement was actually illiterate or whether their treatises were merely poorly translated.        Things finally seemed to be brewing out of control after an article by a prominent Liberal philosopher arguing that the poor brought their squalid state upon themselves by their semi-bestial actions and that famine was the natural cure for all social evils as per Malthus was reprinted approvingly by the largest of the Liberal papers. Revolution seemed imminent as the desperation and poverty of the day grew more and more acute.  At the end of August, 1843, the revolution finally broke out. The armed forces, taken by surprise, were horrified by their orders to mow down thousands of their friends and relatives in the streets. His Majesty, who was ceremonially breaking ground on the first rail line in Bavaria (but you gentlemen were all there that day!) was horrified as he heard that, despite the lack of his orders, men were bleeding and dying in the streets of Munich.   The Munich coup failed, but sparked a wider general movement in all the capitals of Europe. The accursed Springtime of Nations was here.    Some states responded to the challenge of Revolution by adopting anti-clerical policies:  Others by submitting to Prussian rule, much to French dismay:    The latter category worried His Majesty the most. A growing clamor of voices, rich and poor alike, demanded annexation to the new German Federation, reminding people that the King of Prussia did not have his subject's blood on his hands and that the new North German Federation had a limited government with an elected body sharing power with the King. Ludwig, who had no desire to live under such an arrangement but who knew that remaining in power invited a pro-NGF coup, abdicated and allowed his son Maximilian II to become the first "King of the Bavarians," a title that demoted the throne from the ruler of a hereditary land to merely the leader of a people. His Majesty created a Diet of the aristocrats, but finding the political opinions of that class distasteful, he expanded it to include some wealthy commoners, creating the mixed Diet of today.    The concessions sated the wealthy among the dissidents, who cut ties with the mob and aligned with Good King Max, leaving the more radical dissidents leaderless and isolated. However, "Good King Max" soon showed that he was no weakling and utterly refused to give up his right to appoint the prime minister of his choice no matter what the election returns said, much to the dismay of the Diet.     Overseas, Persia had crushed the Central Asian Khanate of Kokkand and given most of its land to its ally Bukhara, leaving the Russian Empire to seize much of what was left of the now-defenseless Kokkand.    The discovery of Mechanical Production opened the door for a great many innovations in agricultural work, and spurred the search for a Practical Steam Engine and a new Market Economy.         For all their high-minded talk, the Liberal Revolution had merely produced an oligarchic society that had shifted from the concerns of the high-born to the wealthy. You gentlemen have all benefited greatly from the new order, though some have not and are very loud about it. Why, I believe we have the owner of Bavaria's first, and so far only, factory, the glass monopoly, here with us today. You were here when John Stuart Mill talked to us in person, as I recall.      We didn't ignore military matters, either. Our rapid pace of research and our new position at the cusp of greatness motivated our scientists and our military to become more powerful quicker and have yielded stunning dividends.          Even when important news was coming from abroad, like the coronation of a new Ethiopian Emperor:  Or the first university in Persia, or the Swedish abandonment of their Finnish claims:  The development of Bavarian industry was always the foremost concern. The last election was a real shocker. The Liberals won despite membership in the Liberal Party being a misdemeanor offense! Of course, King Maximilian reinstalled his beloved Prime Minister the following day, but how could the Liberals win if their party can only operate underground?  Speaking of foreign affairs, quite a bit has happened in just the past few years. The "Emperor" of Ethiopia launched a foolish attack on Egypt that puttered out in a humiliating defeat.  The BEIC exercised its "Doctrine of Lapse" yet again.  Portugal seized part of Omani Africa.  Of course, four stories are of greatest interest. First, the Dutch/British race for domination of Southeast Asia. The Dutch sparked the race by annexing Bali, leading Britain to take over the Malays and the Dutch to launch an invasion of Aceh that, while not yet complete, can't possibly end in anything but Dutch victory. The Sultanate of Brunei is the only independent Malay state left and who knows how long that will last.       Next, of course, is the Taiping Rebellion. Ghastly piece of work, wasn't it? It only lasted two months but I hear millions of people died! The man claimed to be Jesus Christ's brother, can you imagine? Kingdom of Heavenly Peace indeed. Part of a general awakening in the East, I'd wager.   Third up is the ongoing war between the USA and Mexico. At the moment, it looks like Mexico will lose Nevada-Utah, New Mexico, and what's left of their holdings in Texas. It's a huge defeat in the making, though fighting is still going on.   Finally, there's the mess in Egypt. As you'll recall, a few years ago the Turks pushed Muhammad Ali out of Syria. Well, now they're going for the whole Levant, and in the process causing a restoration of Ottoman fortunes that makes it no longer look like the sick man of Europe. We had been expecting Turkey's decline to let Bavaria be considered a Great Power, but instead, the Ottomans might well overtake Spain and let Madrid become the true Sick Man of Europe. Strange times, indeed.  Now His Majesty has a few words. If you'll follow me into this room...let me present His Majesty Maximilian II, King of the Bavarians! "Thank you for coming, gentlemen. Our efforts to link the entire country together by rail continue apace, and with state funds and your organization, I have no doubt that Bavaria will soon be home to not one, but many factories. I have summoned you here to consult with you about the future. All the signs are evident: whether it be the Ottomans or the Spaniards, one of the two lesser Great Powers will lose its seat at the Concert of Europe and lose its voice in the great affairs of the day, and we will take their place. This is not a boast, it is a fact. With our newfound power will come a need for a new diplomatic course: no longer will the wings of Austria cover us, we will have to fly on our own or plummet to the bottom of the rocky ravine in failure. I have two questions for you, gentlemen. I have heard our people desire unification into a greater German state. I will never bend my knee to Berlin or their North German Federation, but our neighbors in Baden and Württemberg bear much in common with us culturally and live in rich lands that would make sense as an integrated part of a South German realm. I could lead such a Federation with no shame, as a leader of a powerful South German, Catholic state to be a counterbalance to Berlin and the upstart Prussian-led Confederation. A. Austria has been our ally for centuries and has been our protector since time immemorial. We should try to maintain good relations with Vienna while we try to establish hegemony over the rest of South Germany and settle for being one of three great German states. From 38 to 3, with Munich joining Berlin and Vienna as one of the centers of German political and intellectual life. B. Too long has the House of Wittelsbach yielded to the House of Habsburg. If the South Germans are to be united, let all of them be united. Breaking Austria, setting its oppressed subjects free, and bringing its Germans into a Bavarian-led union is the only hope for a true South German Federation. The second question is just as heavy. The orders to crush a popular revolt crushed my father's spirit and his political power, and I do not know if I could do the same. What course of action should I take next time a revolt occurs? Keep in mind that I may be busy and, in the heat of the moment, unable to ascertain the nature of the revolution or its goals. 1. Revolutions must be crushed. If need be, let reform happen as it did in this past decade, but never let the mob install its own government. That way lies the Jacobin madness of the last century, which we should never unleash again. 2. A king who shoots his own subjects is no king at all. The king is father of the fatherland, after all, and no one applauds the man who murders his children. Let them demonstrate! These are weighty matters worthy of consideration by wise men such as yourselves. I look forward to your reply. I expect that by the next time I see you, Munich will be the global center of culture...a young French painter named Edouard Manet has shown me samples of a new style that I suspect will make quite an impression soon. God Save Bavaria!"
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Dec 23, 2013 07:40
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Thanks, Sniper! Vote's open until...9PM Eastern.
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Dec 23, 2013 20:17
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TheMcD posted:Well, from the looks of it, I hope people like being a democracy by 1860, because that's what we could very well be heading towards. And then an Absolute Monarchy again after the reactionary White Guard marches on Munich, and then a Bourgeois Dictatorship the following year when the Citizen Guard marches in. A policy of capitulating to whatever armed group wants to run Bavaria should be fun.
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Dec 23, 2013 20:43
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Gantolandon posted:Just see RL France which switched through every form of government imaginable (except Proletarian Dictatorship). It went from absolute monarchy to constitutional monarchy, revolutionary republic, an empire, an absolute monarchy under Bourbons, a constitutional monarchy under Louis-Phillippe, a republic, an empire under Napoleon III, then a republic again. It stayed like this pretty long until WWII, when it briefly experimented with being a puppet fascist dictatorship. Even after that, it tried being a Parliamentary-led Republic again, then found that that wasn't working and switched to a Republic with the Presidency firmly in the driver's seat. EDIT: I wonder...if German Pan-Nationalists take Munich once we're a GP, can we be offered a crown out of our own gutter? Patter Song fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 22:45
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TheMcD posted:I think it would simply go over to Prussia by default. NGF gets first dibs, but AI has like a 90% chance of saying no to Crown from the Gutter, after which it asks any other GPs in the cultural sphere. I'm not sure that includes the country that had the revolt, though. For that matter, what if NGF was overthrown by German Pan-Nats? Would they be offered a crown out of the gutter of Berlin? BTW, I have the game open, so if anyone has any questions about anything in the game world (like what reforms a country has, what its economy is like, etc.) feel free to ask.
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Dec 23, 2013 22:53
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Things I've found out by poking around a bit...as far as I can tell we have the second-fastest research speed in the world (our northern neighbor NGF has 24 research points, we have 23, I can't find anyone else with over 20). EDIT: Our neighbor Wurtemburg is roughly keeping pace with us, it also has 23. They're also more progressive than we are...Wealth voting as opposed to our Weighted Wealth. In terms of crises, all is calm from Dan to Beersheba. No potential flashpoint is particularly restless, though the Ottomans have an "at war" modifier calming its public down that will go away once they're finished crushing Egypt. Quite a few countries, including Austria, the Netherlands, and Sweden, never bothered to research Medicine. This is a very bad idea. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 23:18
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Vote closes at the end of the hour. Looking like the B2s are going to have it, but you never know!
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Dec 24, 2013 02:09
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Vote's closed. According to Sniper4625, the final count is: A 11 B 30 1 17 2 24 So we are officially adopting a policy where any armed group can march into Munich and take control of the affairs of state, and we are going to prioritize the destruction and incorporation of Austria over forming a lesser SGF.
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Dec 24, 2013 03:05
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uPen posted:Forming the SGF is going to be difficult when we lose our sphere every time somebody with a gun gets fed up with taxes. I might have to figure out how the Suppression mechanic works. I've never used it and I don't really understand how it works.
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Dec 24, 2013 03:52
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Played the latest update. Roller-coaster of good and bad news...I'll have fun writing this one up.
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Dec 24, 2013 09:05
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How's my image size, by the way? I know some people were complaining about the first update, so I made the pics in the most recent update a bit larger. Here's an image from the upcoming update (the emergence of New Zealand). Here it is full-sized:  Here it is the size I used the previous update:  And here is the size I was using originally:  I'm planning on sticking with the middle one...unless you guys have a strong preference! This is not a vote.
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Dec 25, 2013 01:02
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So let's talk some about rebels. (Update's played, but is a few days off. I need to think about this one...) The standard way for a rebellion to start is if a movement becomes radicalized. In Victoria II, there are movements, popular causes that people can join, usually if they're feeling militant. A movement becomes more radical over time, in response to you passing reforms that aren't what the movement wants, as it grows larger in population, and as it recovers from earlier efforts to suppress it. In the early game, the public tends to be apathetic and illiterate and lacking in social conciousness. The events leading up to the Springtime of Nations briefly inflames them, but afterwards they tend to go back to sleep. It takes a harsh economic downturn, a major humiliation on the world stage, mass unemployment and starvation, and the like to really provoke a strong revolution in the early game. This changes as literacy raises, Consciousness raises (meaning that the social classes will abandon a general acquiescence to a Conservative status quo and start actively taking measures to benefit their class interest...the Capitalists start embracing Liberalism/Anarcho-Liberalism, the Officers Reactionary politics, the Craftsmen Socialism/Communism, etc.), and social/political reform demand reaches a boiling point. Finally, at some point you are going to get the Revolution And Counterrevolution technology, which, among other things, gives rebels a 75% boost to the rate at which they organize their little revolts, which produces Victoria II's famed late game where you're fighting off a new quarter-million man insurgency every two months. Furthermore, as new ideologies unlock, their rebel factions aren't far behind. There are many types of rebels in Victoria II. Here are all the rebel varieties I can think of. White Guards (Reactionary): If you're any sort of Republic, you become a Presidential Dictatorship (Dictatorial Republic, Upper House all Reactionary). If you're a Presidential Dictatorship or any kind of monarchy, you become an Absolute Monarchy. Your political reforms go back to the bare minimum (though you won't relegalize slavery if it is already banned). Reactionary Rebels (Unciv): Will remove two economic and two military reforms, wiping out years (decades, in some cases) of technological process. If you've already civilized, will knock you back into uncivilized status. Carlist (Unique to Spain): Will do the same as White Guards, but will give you a cool flag. Jacobins (Liberal): If you're any kind of monarchy, you become a HM's Government. If you're an HM's Government or any type of non-democratic Republic (any of the dictatorships), you become a Democracy. Changes your political reforms to Slavery Outlawed, Weighted Universal Suffrage, First Past the Post voting, Two Per State Upper House, Meetings Allowed, Free Press, Non-Socialist Allowed Unions, and Gerrymandered parties. Note that it does this even if your political reforms are more advanced than these. Citizen Guard (Anarcho-Liberal): Will put you into a dictatorship named a Bourgeois Dictatorship. Lose all political reforms, all Anarcho-Liberal Upper House, can repeal any Social Reforms it wishes to. Upper House is all Anarcho-Liberal. Usually a result of starving Artisans who resort to free market fundamentalism as a result of their failed competition with factories. Red Guard (Communist): Turns your country into a Proletarian Dictatorship. Can add social reforms at will and repeal political reforms at will (ever wanted to reintroduce slavery?). Blackshirts (Fascist): I may be remembering their name...I think it's that, but it might be Iron Guard. Turns your country into a Fascist Dictatorship, which is actually one of the best government forms in the game. I still try not to go Fascist Dictatorship because, you know, Fascists. Nationalists: If they occupy every province cored by a country that doesn't exist that you own, that country will secede from you. This means that really small countries like El Salvador get free quite often because the government doesn't have time to respond. If you can hold one province you're safe from Nationalists, but if it's like Jodhpuri nationalists where Jodhpur is only one province, you might well lose before you can react. Sepoy Rebels: Like Nationalists but for India. If they occupy every province in British India they can break off. This never happens because it requires Sri Lanka and the Maldives(!) and the rebels can't swim. Garibaldi's Redshirts: If they coup one Italian country, no matter which it is, Piedmont-Sardinia demands the annexation of every other Italian state, who all have a 95% chance of saying yes. This is exactly how Garibaldi operated. Watch out for that tell-tale moment when you see "Garibaldi's Redshirts have enforced their demands on Lucca" and then the following day see "Italy has annexed Lucca/Parma/Modena/Tuscany/Papal States/Two Sicilies." Pan-Nationalists: Do one of three things. If you're either Moldavia and Wallachia and you get couped by Romanian Pan-Nats, you're inherited by the other country which becomes Romania. If you're not Romanian, it's different. If your Cultural Union tag (German Empire, or Italy, or Scandinavia, or India, or Arabia, or whatever) doesn't exist, if you're couped any GP in your cultural union area will get a message asking if they want to take a Crown from the Gutter. If they accept they lose prestige, become the cultural union country, and inherit you. The chances of a GP existing in your cultural union are slim and you're more likely to just get their political reforms (a watered-down version of the Jacobin reforms). If your cultural union tag already exists, you petition for annexation by them. Say Arabia exists and Algeria is couped by Arab Pan-Nats: Arabia will get the choice to accept you in or reject you, it will take you in and inherit your country in one gulp. Boxer Rebels: Will ruin China's day.
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Dec 25, 2013 04:55
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The Boxers are a rather unique thing, as their result depends dramatically on when they rise up. As you may be aware, the "Chinese Empire" in V2 starts out only controlling the Chinese coastline, with various autonomous vassal substates. (Chinese Empire, its substates Manchuria, Mongolia, Xinjiang, Qinghai, Yunnan, and Guangxi, and its non-substate vassal Tibet) This was intended to let players divide China into different spheres of influence/economic zones and to help contain the massive distortions on the world market that China creates. (Do you want to break V2? DOW China with the "Add To Sphere" CB, watch the entire world crash and burn within two years) Some countries even have unique mechanics regarding this: if Russia spheres Manchuria, it can force through the Peking Convention and acquire all of Outer Manchuria without firing a shot, allowing it to build Vladivostok and get a non-terrible port on the Pacific (doing this is pretty much a standard starter for Russia players). If China Westernizes, it annexes all its substates (not Tibet). If one of the substates Westernizes, all the substates become independent and China gets to relive the warlord era of the 1910s. Which brings me to the Boxers. The Society of the Harmonious Fists, or "Boxers," want to purge China of Western influences, but they'll do so by killing Westerners living in China. If you are broken by Boxers, every non-Chinese GP will get a "Suppress the Boxer Rebellion" CB on you, which is like Cut Down To Size with a much larger Prestige bonus on success. However, that's not the worst element. A revolution breaks all your diplomatic ties. If Boxers break China before it westernizes, all the substates and Tibet will secede and become fully independent. That's still not the worst element. Uniquely, Boxers will break China if they occupy ANY of its provinces, and they spawn by the tens of millions.
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Dec 25, 2013 19:53
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Have you ever played as a civilized China? poo poo's bonkers. Yeah. China breaks V2 over its knee. This may be relevant for us as China has the Western Influences modifier and got a bundle of research points for crushing Taiping. I bet they'll Westernize by 1880-1885. At which point they will destroy the global economy and cause global unemployment as China builds thousands of factories and build everything cheaper than anyone else.
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Dec 25, 2013 23:55
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theblastizard posted:I've seen the US do it a few times, but that's typically due to China Civilizing and the massive tide of Chinese people moving across the pacific that causes. You can "Liberate India" as a 100 warscore wargoal vs Britain, but it's pretty much unthinkable. You'd pretty much need an alliance of France and civilized China vs an already weakened Britain to have a serious chance at pulling it off.
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Dec 26, 2013 00:25
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JGBeagle posted:Also, since the V2 wiki is barely touched, what is the Heavenly Kingdom tag exactly? I've seen them appear from time to time but are always wiped out by the Chinese. The Kingdom of Heavenly Peace, or the Taiping, were a rebel state in southern China 1850-1864 that, in one of the bloodiest conflicts in human history, attempted to overthrow the Manchu Qing Dynasty. Hong Xiuquan, its founder, failed the critical civil service examination and fell into a trance, upon coming to he proclaimed that the Christian God had communicated to him and annointed him, Hong, his second son and, by extension, the younger brother of Jesus Christ. Hong's followers ranged from those who actually believed his claim to those Han Chinese just eager for anyone to throw out the Manchu Qing. Over a decade of brutal fighting sapped the strength of the Qing government, and the weakened Qing suffered a humiliating loss to Britain and France in the Arrow War (sometimes called the Second Opium War) and the resulting torching of the Imperial Summer Palace by British forces and the unchallenged concession of the Amur Delta (Outer Manchuria) to Russia. The most successful Qing army facing the Taiping forces was famously the Ever-Victorious-Army, a force consisting of a mix of Westerners living in China who volunteered and Chinese people, led by American Frederick Townsend Ward and then by the legendary British general Charles "Chinese" Gordon.
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Dec 26, 2013 01:11
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BBJoey posted:You missed one type of rebel: Militant Socialists. Halfway between Jacobins and Red Guards, they'll implement a democratic government with a socialist party in charge. I don't think they're a thing in Vanilla, at least I didn't see them in the files. I did, however, miss the Apache and Sioux rebels, who will...kill 90% of the non-Native Americans in any province they occupy. I had no idea that was a thing and now I'm tempted to do a game where I invade the USA and escort a stack of Sioux on a grand tour around the country.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:10
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Rockopolis posted:"From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever. Because I won." I can't get over the image of 9,000 Sioux braves marching into New York City and...somehow killing 90% of the population. Like, do they all line up or something?
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Dec 26, 2013 05:54
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