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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

Conquest Chapter 10 (the defend map) is kinda cool I guess.

But I'm a bad FE player that heavily used Benny despite everyone raining fire and brimstone on armour knights, so what do I know.

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FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



I just remembered fe9 got a randomizer the other week and I today I hit kirian, who is a brigand with adept

Also, ike just promoted to falcon knight so he gets ragnell and most is running around robbing people from dragon back.

A+ experience. Would random again.

Fake edit:
That said it's with normal growths(str/mag flipped where appropriate) because after ike rolled a 0% speed growth on my first attempt I didnt feel like dealing with that. I really wish more randomizers had a setting that produced growths you would actually find in a baseline fe game. Right now I have to code my own algorithm into it when I can be bothered.

The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012

It's a lovely morning on the forums, and you are a horrible goose.




In vacuums, several of Conquest's maps' designs are really good, and in a better Fire Emblem game would probably be among the best maps of all time. But yeah in the context you get them in they suck rear end because you're just getting slammed over and over and over by horrible gimmicky ninja slogs.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


ApplesandOranges posted:

Conquest Chapter 10 (the defend map) is kinda cool I guess.

But I'm a bad FE player that heavily used Benny despite everyone raining fire and brimstone on armour knights, so what do I know.

Benny is a giant brick wall in a game where not taking lots of damage is a really good trait. I mean, I personally never liked him much since his base speed is in that ďget doubled by literally everything and not just ninja/samuraiĒ but if your Beruka/Effie/Keaton didnít turn out having more tanks than Xander isnít the worst thing ever.

Scrap Dragon
Oct 6, 2013

SECRET TECHNIQUE:
DARK SHADOW
BLACK FALLEN ANGEL!




Benny is honestly too good of a tank, because if lategame Conquest enemies canít damage anyone in range they straight up wonít move sometimes

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

If you invest all your Speedwings into Benny, and then have him marry Azura to get access to Falcon Knight, he can double CQ's final boss. That's the kind of dumb meme content we all live for.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


We have finally finished up Chad's skill in MoD, Shadowstep.




It's a god damned short-range teleport. Of course he can't attack or use items or lockpit after doing it, it ends his turn, but he has a god damned SHORT RANGE TELEPORT!

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Oswin is one of the best units in fe7, armor knights are fine mostly. Their main issues are movement (which conquests compact maps help alleviate) and speed (you fight so many ninjas everyones getting doubled anyway)

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Onmi posted:

We have finally finished up Chad's skill in MoD, Shadowstep.




It's a god damned short-range teleport. Of course he can't attack or use items or lockpit after doing it, it ends his turn, but he has a god damned SHORT RANGE TELEPORT!

I'm guessing the big use of this is to get him a few extra spaces on an approach/retreat but idk i think i'd like it if he could lock pick after it. It'd probably be my first thought at getting it, to help expedite the chesting process

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


rannum posted:

I'm guessing the big use of this is to get him a few extra spaces on an approach/retreat but idk i think i'd like it if he could lock pick after it. It'd probably be my first thought at getting it, to help expedite the chesting process

He can warp through walls. Does that explain it?

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



rannum posted:

I'm guessing the big use of this is to get him a few extra spaces on an approach/retreat but idk i think i'd like it if he could lock pick after it. It'd probably be my first thought at getting it, to help expedite the chesting process


Onmi posted:

He can warp through walls. Does that explain it?

Yeah, my though was more of jumping over the enemy lines to gank a squishy in the back or jumping over walls to loot in safety.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



Onmi posted:

We have finally finished up Chad's skill in MoD, Shadowstep.




It's a god damned short-range teleport. Of course he can't attack or use items or lockpit after doing it, it ends his turn, but he has a god damned SHORT RANGE TELEPORT!

Man. Astohl and Cath are gonna need something dumb to compete with that.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014



What's the promotion situation for the thieves in MoD? Assassins? Rogues? A mix? Some out of left field fourth option?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Cattail Prophet posted:

What's the promotion situation for the thieves in MoD? Assassins? Rogues? A mix? Some out of left field fourth option?

Rogues. If I'd done Trickster, this skill would not exist on Chad.


Hellioning posted:

Man. Astohl and Cath are gonna need something dumb to compete with that.

Astolfo has freedom of movement, no terrain penalties. He's also a prepromote, so he very much has a stat-lead on Chad and Cath.

Cath doesn't have a movement skill, and she has the only %proc skill in the personal skills. She turns kills into Red Orbs.

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


The Kitsune map is good actually. The gimmicks actually encourage you to use weird formations and multi turn tactics you never would anywhere else in the franchise.

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


Discounting the paralogues almost every map in Conquest maintains a consistent standard of quality that's so high it often dwarfs the greatest highs of previous entries. Like a Thracia that's not a strung out methhead with moth ridden clothes. Birthright Lunatic endgame was a far more miserable experience considering the horde of enemies you have to wade through, though at least it's not Awakening levels of bad

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010



if by consistent standard of quality you mean consistently miserable, i agree. thracia is much more fun because it actually lets you do stuff instead of constraining you to incredibly specific winning strategies and using the five OP units you have and no one else.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Perfect Potato posted:

Discounting the paralogues almost every map in Conquest maintains a consistent standard of quality that's so high it often dwarfs the greatest highs of previous entries. Like a Thracia that's not a strung out methhead with moth ridden clothes.
a consistent standard of quality so high that i, a person who replays every fe game once a year, literally never want to play it again. there's like 4 actually fun maps in conquest.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



quality maps like the jar map, where I came within 1 tile of winning on the last turn, lost to the time limit, and had to start over. quality maps like takumi's warp staircase hell, where I looked at it, went "wow, this looks annoying; I'll play it tomorrow" and never picked up the game again

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Elephant Parade posted:

quality maps like the jar map, where I came within 1 tile of winning on the last turn, lost to the time limit, and had to start over. quality maps like takumi's warp staircase hell, where I looked at it, went "wow, this looks annoying; I'll play it tomorrow" and never picked up the game again
wait, the warp staircase map was fine if its the one im thinking of. the staircase tile is one way, its not a massive teleporter puzzle.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!


Fates is the game where itís easiest by far to use the not-OP units and do weird gimmick builds. Use attack stance, itís really powerful

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Takumi's Warp Map is actually pretty straightforward, as far as Conquest maps go. Just a bunch of enemy groups that won't break formation so you're supposed to engage them all at once, group by group.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013


Zofia Today
Alm: Human Disaster


Lipstick Apathy

I think the 3 parts I dread doing from several FE games are:

1. Wanting to "train" Lachesis early becaused landing that killing blow on Voltz to obtain the Elite/Paragon ring is kind of a pain and her dumbass triplet bodyguards are a danger to themselves and everyone in my party. Across the years I've gotten good at keeping/steering the three bozos clear away from doing their BS but I hafta admit that the whole Voltz section is kind of a pain, even if trying to figure out a good outcome can be hella fun!
2. Some desert maps/sections. While they often work in helping you "train" units that might be lagging behind, they're not super fun, especially compared to weather chapters.
3. What is(was? I dunno) called "Frederick Emblem" early on Lunatic runs of FE13. Sorry, not a fan.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk





College Slice

My take on Conquest, which seems to be shared with most of this thread at least, is that it holds up for one playthrough gameplaywise. There's a few annoying maps (kitsune, wind) but by and large the gimmicks are fine to experience, once

on replays it's just miserable and does not hold up

Endorph posted:

a consistent standard of quality so high that i, a person who replays every fe game once a year, literally never want to play it again. there's like 4 actually fun maps in conquest.

how do you have time to play anything else

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

Every now and then I think about replaying Conquest, but then memories of Ninja Hallway Hell come back.

Birthright may be 'worse' but at least it's easier for me to ease back to again.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


cheetah7071 posted:

how do you have time to play anything else
i can beat most fe games in like 4-5 hours by now

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


I don't know what everyone means by Conquest only allowing one strategy/team composition. I had tons of fun doing things like a run where everyone was on horses (non-flying). Believe it or not it actually didn't make the Kitsune map undoable, as everyone being mounted opens up a lot of fun tactics. Ya'll need to try more gimmick runs.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013


Zofia Today
Alm: Human Disaster


Lipstick Apathy

  • Reclassing Chrom as an archer->sniper might seem dumb given he's giving up on all the sickass swords (including Falchion) one can get at least at first, but given how tanky Chrom is given the minimum amount of babying he requires, I think it turns him into a more interesting unit long-term.
  • You'd be laughed out of the room if you suggest pairing Arden with anybody outside of like Ayra (her children turn out fine regardless of who's the dad), but if you pair Tailtiu with either Lex or Arden, both Tine and Arthur turn into fairly good wizards given how strong Wrath + Vantage as a combo of skills really is.
  • I think I did something goofy with the maid girls in Fates like turning them into Witches or something with the free DLC/Spotpass seals you get sometimes?
  • I reclassed Saber as a mage. He turned surprisingly decent, too!
Still not planning on revisiting Revelation any time soon, though.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk





College Slice

Lex/Tailtiu is...fine. There just aren't that many spots in the game where you can really vantage kill everything with Lex!Tine's stats but there are a few/ You have to slow down to even take advantage of it though because she's infantry. Arthur is more or less a lost cause with that pairing.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


galagazombie posted:

I don't know what everyone means by Conquest only allowing one strategy/team composition. I had tons of fun doing things like a run where everyone was on horses (non-flying). Believe it or not it actually didn't make the Kitsune map undoable, as everyone being mounted opens up a lot of fun tactics. Ya'll need to try more gimmick runs.
i have tried gimmick runs and theyre all really boring because the game hates you for doing them

like yeah they're beatable but for a game with so many options the game sure makes a ton of them inconvenient

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Endorph posted:

wait, the warp staircase map was fine if its the one im thinking of. the staircase tile is one way, its not a massive teleporter puzzle.
it was probably more the cumulative effect of all the annoying conquest maps than just that one.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





FE4 is a game where I dont have to particularly worry about who ends up havign a kid with who, right?

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?




Fun Shoe

i stand by the conquest "hold out for X turns" map being the best map of its type and probably one of the best maps in the series, but like...every other chapter in the entire game is just kinda annoying and bad

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Junpei Hyde posted:

FE4 is a game where I dont have to particularly worry about who ends up havign a kid with who, right?
uhhh

so long as both parents are of the same 'type' (physical units with physical units, mages with mages) they'll be alright, and you absolutely want to pair lewyn with either erinys or tiltyu, but

A) you definitely want everyone paired up by the end of gen 1
and B) you can absolutely create really bad units by having tiltyu marry arden or whatever

but most of the pairings the game pushes you towards by default are decent enough (for instance erinys is basically the default pairing for lewyn)

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





Arden will never marry anyone, he doesnt have enough move to make it to dates

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Junpei Hyde posted:

Arden will never marry anyone, he doesnt have enough move to make it to dates

arden/ayra has a really funny conversation and the kids wind up okay

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





Endorph posted:

arden/ayra has a really funny conversation and the kids wind up okay

Sold

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


CH7 - enemies become hostile in predetermined waves
CH8 - speedrunning houses for rewards/stopping enemy reinforcements, optional
CH9 - Azura is isolated but in no real danger
CH10 - defense chapter
CH11 - enemies do not move unless engaged, probably introduction of status staves
CH12 - turn limit escape/pot mechanic that works almost solely in the player's favor, can be disabled instantly and turned into a standard escape map
CH13 - relatively standard map
CH14 - relatively standard map
CH15 - maybe turn limit escape and clone mechanic with 3 units , completely optional
CH16 - find the boss/speedrunning for money, can be safely done at a normal pace
CH17 - ninja cave, wall separation mechanic under the player's control, makibishi traps
CH18 - turn limit double boss
CH19 - kitsune invulnerability
CH20 - wind mechanic, follows a set pattern
CH21 - escape map that actually encourages escaping
CH22 - wall separation mechanic not under the player's control, siege weapons
CH23 - enemies do not move unless engaged, siege weapons
CH24 - movement speed dragonvein, can be exploited by player
CH25 - turn limit/solo boss, can be ended on turn 1 if built for or otherwise done normally
CH26 - status staves
CH27 - teleporting separation of party I guess, barely matters
END - like a reverse escape map to the boss, marred by Fates' poor handling of endgame saves

The gimmick thing is grossly overblown and turns "basic game mechanics" and "franchise staples" into some sort of affront sacrilege

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Perfect Potato posted:

CH7 - enemies become hostile in predetermined waves
CH8 - speedrunning houses for rewards/stopping enemy reinforcements, optional
CH9 - Azura is isolated but in no real danger
CH10 - defense chapter
CH11 - enemies do not move unless engaged, probably introduction of status staves
CH12 - turn limit escape/pot mechanic that works almost solely in the player's favor, can be disabled instantly and turned into a standard escape map
CH13 - relatively standard map
CH14 - relatively standard map
CH15 - maybe turn limit escape and clone mechanic with 3 units , completely optional
CH16 - find the boss/speedrunning for money, can be safely done at a normal pace
CH17 - ninja cave, wall separation mechanic under the player's control, makibishi traps
CH18 - turn limit double boss
CH19 - kitsune invulnerability
CH20 - wind mechanic, follows a set pattern
CH21 - escape map that actually encourages escaping
CH22 - wall separation mechanic not under the player's control, siege weapons
CH23 - enemies do not move unless engaged, siege weapons
CH24 - movement speed dragonvein, can be exploited by player
CH25 - turn limit/solo boss, can be ended on turn 1 if built for or otherwise done normally
CH26 - status staves
CH27 - teleporting separation of party I guess, barely matters
END - like a reverse escape map to the boss, marred by Fates' poor handling of endgame saves

The gimmick thing is grossly overblown and turns "basic game mechanics" and "franchise staples" into some sort of affront sacrilege
'literally every map in the game has an annoying gimmick. this gimmick thing is overblown.'

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Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!


The problem with Conquest is that you can still just barely beat its most interesting maps with strategies that make them into boring, awful slogs. Like 17 says maybe you should try using bows and the wall mechanic, but you can still march through with Javelins and Hand Axes and eat a million Poison Strikes if you want. It'll just suck, that's all

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