Fire Emblem Megathread: Class-change warfare

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fire Emblem Megathread: Class-change warfare

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Question for Path of Radiance:

In Daybreak, I know that the chapter as a whole only counts as a single mission for Support purposes (as opposed to 4), but do characters need to be in all four stages in order to gain support? As in if Boyd is in all four stages but Mist is only in three of them, do they still get Support credit?

# ¿ Sep 26, 2019 16:57

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:35

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Radiant Dawn:

Whoever thought it would be a good idea to make you play as the Dawn Brigade in Part III with Part 1-Endgame stats should be fired into the sun. A Reason to Fight is sapping my reason to live.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 20:58

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Also Radiant Dawn:

Ike x Mia A Support is one of the most electrifying gaming experiences I've had in ages. I feel like the two of them could solo entire missions save for magicians.

This game is fire and ice, man. It lifts me up with the Greil Mercenaries, then plunges me back down to the pit with Micaiah's band of losers.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 21:13

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Custom weapons own. I made a series of spears for Oscar named after cooking implements, and every axe or hand-axe for Boyd was named after an 80s metal band with rad mispellings: Van Halyn, Lead Zepplyn, which was the heaviest Steel Axe fathomable, and, of course, the Iryn Maydyn.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 21:19

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

EDIT: Maybe it's because I imported a file from Path of Radiance, but the fast map speed was unlocked from the start of my Radiant Dawn game.

RBA Starblade posted:

I also remember playing Radiant Dawn after Awakening for the first time and putting it down a few missions in because I couldn't take how slow the whole game moved afterward

I still have the disc, apparently it's worth a lot

I went right from Path of Radiance to Radiant Dawn and that was actually probably a bad move because the first Part of Radiant Dawn is grueling, which is a cold slap of reality following the endgame of Path of Radiance when your crew is basically un-killable. They really nailed the feeling of being a scrappy, outmatched resistance, to the point where it's really not very much fun at all. It's a miracle I made it out of Part I at all.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 21:25

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Which is a shame because Path of Radiance is one of the best RPGs of any kind I've ever played, period. Granted it's my first Fire Emblem game as well, but I was staggered by how enjoyable it was. I finished on Easy Mode and then went right back in to start a Normal mode game to get a save-file I could export to Radiant Dawn.

(A savvier company than Nintendo would do a digital re-release so one could play these games without spending $200.00 on eBay for a copy, my god)

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 21:29

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Endorph posted:

that was the best idea in fe10 and 3-13 is the best map in the series

If the goal is to make me hate Leonardo more than I already do, then they definitely succeeded.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 21:32

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Am I missing something regarding how Disarm works in Radiant Dawn? I've been trying to disarm a Priest carrying a Physic Staff in 3-7 using Mist so Heather can steal it, since she's the only Greil Mercenary who can't kill the dude in a single attack. But I've reset the Battle Save maybe 30 times and still nothing. According to the Fire Emblem wiki Disarm's odds are Skill/2% which should be 10% for Mist, but so far nothing. Is there some other factor in play?

# ¿ Oct 16, 2019 17:43

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Looper posted:

I'm fairly confident that battle saves keep the same rng seed but I'm also fairly confident that it's just as easy to cycle the rng as it is in the gba games

They definitely don't because I savescummed a previous situation (trying to farm a Storm Sword from a General) and it eventually worked, though it was with Brom, not Mist, so I was wondering if it was a stat issue (such as how you can't Steal from a target whose Speed exceeds yours).

# ¿ Oct 16, 2019 17:59

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Trasson posted:

Nah, it's probably just bad luck then. Like was mentioned, thirty straight failures sounds like a lot, but 90% (your odds of failure) raised to the thirtieth power is around 4%. You'd consider it obnoxious but not impossible or even especially improbable if you got blown up by a 4% critical; this is just the same thing.

Ironically that's exactly what happened to me in PoR, I was cruising right along one of the castle seige levels and Jill got randomly wiped out by a 4% crit from a random Mage. I just wanted to see if there was some mechanical factor I was unaware of that was making the task impossible.

cheetah7071 posted:

Physic is not particularly rare in RD iirc and you shouldn't drive yourself insane trying to get extras

Really? I'm on 3-7 and the only one I've seen so far was for sale to the Idiot Brigade in the prior chapter.

Plus it's not like Path of Radiance where Staffs can't technically be equipped and Volke managed to pinch like 5 of them by the endgame. The only way to steal one is to knock it out of the guy's hand.

Strange Matter fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Oct 16, 2019

# ¿ Oct 16, 2019 18:15

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

ROFL Octopus posted:

My favorite part about equipable staves is using Nailah to petrify that priest in 1-E to train really fail units

Oh that would have been a nice way to make some of the more pathetic Dawn Brigade units less incredibly awful.

(aside from Tauroneo my highest level Dawn units are Jill, Zihark, Edward, Micaiah and...Meg.)

# ¿ Oct 16, 2019 18:53

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

That's good because she's also one of the few DB members who doesn't put me to sleep whenever they're on screen.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2019 19:02

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

My problem with Nolan is that he is a terrifically uninteresting character, just like the rest of the Dawn Brigade really. Each of them reads like a lamer version of a Greil Mercenary. The only DB character I even remotely enjoy using is Meg because I find her to be adorable.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2019 20:15

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Like Clockwork posted:

The lack of supports is felt for the entire cast but it really hurts the new characters in RD; they just don't have enough screen time to make them feel more substantial than, like, Bord. And, much like Bord, they usually don't have the stats to make you want to use them despite how paper-thin they are.

Which means the only winners are those with distinctive designs like Meg, the tiny baby in power armor.

I initially read Bord as Boyd and got all defensive because Boyd is the man.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2019 14:50

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

So it's taken me almost the entirety of Radiant Dawn Part III to realize what they're doing with the Dawn Brigade in that part. We're still pretty much the bad guys. In both 3-12 and 3-13 you're sitting in an entrenched, strategically superior position facing off against a massively better leveled enemy force, and the only real way for you to win is to take advantage of the edge the map gives you as your enemy tries to just cut through your forces head-first.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2019 16:12

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

WrightOfWay posted:

It's pretty lovely of Ike to send dozens of Laguz to their deaths against the Dawn Brigade in 3-13 when he could easily solo them all except for a particularly high level Jill.

In Ike's defense, the Laguz in Radiant Dawn seem very enthusiastic about killing themselves compared with their Path of Radiance counterparts. I used Lethe through the Endgame of PoR (on Easy Mode at least) and she was one of my most effective units. In Radiant Dawn I've found almost no use for any of them compared with how good the Beorc units are.

EDIT: I definitely mismanaged by Dawn Brigade and it's only due to CPU idiocy and map design that I'm able to even finish Part III in this run through. How exactly is one expected to use them? Just level Edward, Nolan and Jill until you can use Master Crowns on them? Or is the expectation that you should have them high enough level from basic gameplay as to be useful?

# ¿ Oct 24, 2019 19:25

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

Even on my last hard mode run Nolan and Edward were only like close to level 20 second tier by the beginning of part 4

Yeah I really fouled it up somehow. Tauroneo is still my highest level dude, except for Zihark whom I master crowned into a Trueblade. Jill, Edward and Meg are around Tier 2 Level 10, and I had to Master Seal Nolan and Leonardo into their tier-2 forms; Nolan as a result is pretty awful and Leonardo has turned out great only because 3-12 and 3-13 let archers kill dozens of foes with impunity.

Despite this I still managed to clear 3-13, thank god.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2019 23:26

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Amppelix posted:

Well, I must congratulate you on being the first person ever who got more use out of Leo than Nolan.

With great reluctance, though. Leo was incredibly useless in Part I and a constant source of frustration.

EDIT: On the bright side I was sitting on 40k of Bonus XP coming into the Part IV Prologue so now I get to enjoy Dragonlord Jill.

Strange Matter fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Oct 25, 2019

# ¿ Oct 25, 2019 16:44

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Remake the Tellius games with modern Support mechanics so I can live through my fanfiction dreams and have Ike and Mia get married.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 01:12

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Amppelix posted:

If they remake FE9 and remove the best support system in the goddamn series i will be mad online

I want it both ways. I want to support between every character and I want conversations that dive deep into each character�s personalities and pasts. I will pay unreasonable amounts of money for this. Which is what it costs to play this game anyway.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 02:06

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Chapter deployment makes perfect sense, the issue is that certain characters have crummy support compatibility. Nephenee is one of be best characters in the game but she has a very limited support structure, despite getting her fairly early in the game.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 05:09

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Amppelix posted:

That's true, but it's also better than support point grinding (without the inclusion of the whole monastery shebang from 3H anyway)

And while I think unlimited supports is a necessity that comes with having a whole load of conversations, only being able to see five in the past games was a surprisingly good tool to keep characters from seeming too one-note. When you can see (in quick succession) 10 c-supports for the same character, all of which may be written in quite a similar fashion, it gets pretty silly and really colours impressions of the character when they keep doing the same gag for the sixth time in a row.

I'd subscribe to this newsletter. This is why Illyana is such a dumb character. More than any character in the game, she has a single schtick repeated for all of her Supports, and it's not even a good one to begin with (although it does lead to a pretty hilarious death dialog in Radiant Dawn).

FE9 and 10 are the first and so far only Fire Emblem games that I've played, and in FE9 the biggest fault is that the Support system is too good and makes me want more. Maybe my standards are low, but I found Path of Radiance to be an exceptionally well written game and a lot of that came through the Supports, because they were (for the most part) very thoughtfully constructed. Even Brom and Boyd, two of the biggest meatheads in the game, have a really good, introspective set of Supports where Boyd is questioning whether being a mercenary makes him a good person or not while also helping Brom to work out and lose weight.

I'd probably be happy if each character, aside from ones you get very late in the game, had like 7-10 Supports, that way you could probably make a good, synergistic party out of anyone. That seems like a reasonable number, right?

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 14:11

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Wark Say posted:

I was too tired to write something coherent last night (or... well, in general ), but that right there seems like the sweet spot. Like, I don't think Chrom's supports are super great or anything, but the fact that he has 4 with the first gen ladies he can marry, 3 for first gen dudes, 1 for his sister, 1 for his canon daughter, 1 for the avatar and 1 more for whoever other child unit he gets to father; that's 12 supports, and the only ones that suffer from that lot are the ones for his second child (which I think it's like super generic for all the dads by default?) and the one with Olivia feeling poorly planned. It's almost remarkable how consistent they are outside of those two and how they paint a pretty good picture of Chrom's character overall.

SoV would've benefitted from having more per character. I mean, yeah, that game already has a big-rear end amount of voiced dialogue, but imagine:

Alm bonding with Luthier over their excellent relationship with the cats they find along the way or Alm and Mae becoming bros post-game (given her reactions when he one-shots or crits a foe when she's nearby using the same lines that she does with Celica, I have it in my head that she probably grows fond of him over the last-battle/post game). Or hell, a support with Celica that grows even stronger post-game (I mean, they already hit like trucks by themselves and are unstoppable forces of nature when paired up, but yeah! stronger still!).

Mathilda being all up in Python's grill for being... well, Python, or bonding with Forsyth and Lukas due to them being really into kicking the poo poo out of Clive's adversaries.

Silque having supports with the Novis squad (given that she probably knew of Mycen and Alm due to Celica probably talking about them a good deal), since she's like the big sister figure.

Saber being the big-brother figure for someone other than Celica and Jesse, like Atlas or Boey.

Faye supporting with Mycen, since she seems to view him in almost as high regards as Alm, or with Kliff, given that they're the oldest and youngest from their group respectively and both are recruitable by Celica.

Delthea deserved better.

Let's do the same for Path of Radiance:

For whatever reason, none of the characters who are related to each other have Supports. I guess you can argue that they already support one another, but that feels like a thin excuse. It would have been fun to see how Rolf, Boyd and Oscar actually interact with one another.
I love Mia as a unit but her Supports aren't that good. Given that they are generally driven by her pursuit of her "white clad rival" it seems like a glaring omission that she has no Support with Zihark, the swordsman who wears all white. She could probably support with Stefan too, given that he's a sensei-archetype and she's all about sword-fighting. With how Mia meets with the Greil mercenaries and her one interaction in Radiant Dawn, a Support with Ike would have felt pretty natural too.
Speaking of Zihark, with his backstory of being in a relationship with a Laguz I'm surprised he can't Support with Lethe.
Illyana should Support with Oscar. Her entire character is based around always being hungry, it seems obvious that she should synergize with the guy who is always cooking.
Callil and Largo have no Support, despite being married in Radiant Dawn.

Strange Matter fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Nov 4, 2019

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 16:59

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

That Mia/Neph support would have massively simplified my A Support planning on my second PoR playthrough.

Was FE10's development similarly troubled? That feels like a game that had a lot of cut content, even for how long it is.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 18:35

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

I feel it most in Parts I and II; not that I want Part I to go on longer than it does, but it seems like 80% of the Daein war for independence in Part I and the Crimean unrest in Part II happens offscreen during the Inter-Chapter narrations. If there was a bit more meat in Part I it would have made it easier to get the Dawn Brigade to a less-precarious position by the time they're reintroduced in Part III, and maybe even to get otherwise useless units like Fiona to be playable.

Speaking of which I'm in the endgame of FE10 now, and I managed to get Meg to Level 20 Marshall. She's actually quite good, but she still sat-out the Endgame because it was between her and Jill, and frankly I probably would have been screwed it I left Jill behind because she's sitting at Level 19 with all maxed stats save for Magic and Defense.

Strange Matter fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Nov 4, 2019

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 18:47

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

It sounds like you're all saying I should play Geneology of the Holy War once I finish Radiant Dawn. Obviously it's an older game, but how does it compare with the Tellius games?

# ¿ Nov 5, 2019 04:12

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

cheetah7071 posted:

It's extremely different and is like 50% bad jank 50% good jank

What are the examples of each?

All I know from Geneology is what's written in this thread's OP.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2019 04:18

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Beat Radiant Dawn last night. So long Tellius, you were awesome (until I replay both games again to get different Supports).

Path of Radiance is obviously the better game, but I think what I miss most about it is the super cinematic critical hit animations. The swooping camera angle when you trigger one owned so hard and I miss that each Class more or less had its own set of crit animations.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 15:21

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Micaiah looked to be the same age as Mia, who is apparently the same age as Ike.

Squiddycat posted:

But did you like Micaiah

Cause I love her

She was okay. I rarely use mages in general but I guess she was fine. I never managed to kill her on accident which is more than I can say for most of the magic boys and girls I've fielded.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 18:24

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

The thing that impressed me most about Radiant Dawn is its quiet subversions of some JRPG conventions. Yes, by the end of the game you're climbing a tower to kill a god that is threatening the rest of the world, but the route the game takes to get there is really interesting. While there is a clandestine conspiracy to end the world, it's really just being pursued by two guys, and it doesn't really take much for them to manipulate the various states into carrying out their bidding because it's all stuff they would have done anyway. Begnion was rotten from Path of Radiance and has apparently been rotten for like 700 years, and their gleeful willingness to embroil the entire continent in war to serve their own selfish interests kind of serves to prove Sephiran's point at the end of the game. I kind of expected the game to want me to hate him, Dhegensia and Zelgius by the end, but really I just felt sorry for them. The latter two watched as the world they fought to save 800 years ago tore itself apart, knowing full well the doom they invited, and Zelgius just wanted someone to belong with.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 18:50

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Could that just be anime game aesthetics though? Zelgius has the same deal and he's clearly a grown dude when he starts to worry about people noticing.

EDIT: Stefan too.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 19:07

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

hopeandjoy posted:

It�s probably some combo of Zelgius and Stefan (and Petrine) being a lot older than them and also what Laguz type each is descended from.

Petrine is Branded? Is that revealed by Talking to her with Stefan or something?

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 19:28

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

WrightOfWay posted:

Was it ever mentioned who Zelgius was descended from? I know that Soren and Pelleas are dragon and I'm pretty sure Stefan is cat or tiger but I'm not sure on Zelgius.

According to the Radiant Dawn post-script for Stefan he's a Lion.

Also are all Fire Emblem post scrips as boring and lame as they are in Radiant Dawn? Pretty much all of them say "He/she kept on doing the stuff they always did." At least I got Boyd and Mist hitched.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 19:36

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

Series has plenty of good endings and paired endings

So they pretty much just phoned it in RD then.

Ike's ending actually makes me straight-up mad. The guy who spends two whole games talking about how the Greil Mercenaries are his family and who puts a premium on friendship doesn't seem like the kind of person who just walks off into the sunset.

I remember that conversation, it comes across as a lie that Almedha told Pelleus because the Branded are hated in Daein and they'd never accept him as their king.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 19:51

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

I like that Ike fucks Soren and/or Ranulf and then fucks off with his boyfriend personally

I missed out on that in my playthrough because I didn't go for either of their Supports. Although it rings true since near every female character in Path of Radiance is lining up for Ike's junk and they just bounce off like he's got an anti-lady mantle skill.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 19:57

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

To make it worse, for me to view that I also I have to play through PoR again first to import that Soren A Support because I went Ike/Oscar.

(then again PoR is an excellent game so I may just do that anyway)

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 20:58

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

Honestly I'm waffling between doing it or just biting the bullet and looking the scenes up on Youtube. All of this involves using mages who I'm really not a fan of in general and I feel like will mostly make my life harder. I have no idea how to keep Soren or any other magician alive through Ashera's physical attacks.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 21:17

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

hopeandjoy posted:

The answer is don�t attack her with anyone except people with Nihil.

But looking up the scenes on YouTube is a fine solution. You even get the....fine voice acting in Ike�s flashback that way.

Ashera's cycle includes a Ranged Physical attack that hits one target anywhere on the map, which could very easily kill Soren. Plus he can't really do anything to her in the first place thanks to her 50 Resistance.

Although in retrospect Ashera was pretty easy. She went down by Turn 6 so she only got one full attack cycle in, and on the final turn I actually had to avoid using some characters so Ike could get the final hit in (My Rolf turned out amazing, he was by far the MVP of the Tower). The only person who actually "died" was Sanaki to that ranged Physical attack, and that could have been avoided.

EDIT: My wife and I played the game together and we did our own voice-overs, so it was pretty jarring to hear Zelgius and Ranulf not sounding like Bane and Pedro Pascal, respectively.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 21:49

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

hopeandjoy posted:

All of the mages in the last map should be using Physic staves, not attacking. She does less damage the farther the unit is away.

(Also Soren gets quite dodgy with an Ike support; though my last Soren also. Maxed all his stats so I might not have a realistic perspective.)

Also, you don�t have to actually deploy Soren if you don�t want to. The dragons aren�t like. Good. But they can replace a slot.

That's what I wound up doing with Sothe. I was stressing about how to protect him when I realized I didn't actually have to bring him, and by not bringing him I could take along another Dragon. While not good, the buffs that the Dragons provide is actually very handy.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 22:06

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:35

Strange Matter: Oct 6, 2009; Ask me about Genocide

WrightOfWay posted:

There are also cover tiles that give +10 defense (and wardwood tiles for resistance so Gareth doesn't get owned) that you can park your mages on.

I never noticed that. I was wondering why the damage calculations seemed completely different from one turn to another for no apparent reason.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 22:09

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