|
I don't know about having AJ still be around 100% being a bad thing. Regardless of what they would do with the ending if they time jump a few years, skip that whole problem of "How the gently caress did you even feed that baby?" and have Clem as a teenager trying to raise AJ as a 4 or 5 year old now, mostly alone in a hostile world, and you might get some interesting themes and writing out of that. Motherhood isn't exactly a common thing in video games (zombies as a single mother metaphor!). Clem herself was, what, 8 years old in Season 1? 9 by the end? I know they have different writers now but having a good child character at least has some precedent in The Walking Dead game. It would likely not be interesting given some of the writing in Season 2 and prone to terrible save-the-kid QTE's but maybe I can at least think of good possibilities? Probably not. It would probably be terrible.
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 01:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:53 |
|
|
A. Beaverhausen posted:Gotta be honest, clem with the baby would guarentee me not playing. I can't muster the poo poo to give about Plot Device Baby. Yeah, Clementine's age in season one is probably the bare minimum to make a character not an annoying burden to the player. As much as I want Clem back as the lead I don't know if there's a satisfying way to do it and I don't think they're going to, anyway. Maybe they'll have multiple leads. They could even have Clementine be one of the minor ones. Enough to give some more closure on her story but not to make the entire season about "the baby."
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 01:52
|
|
|
Happy medium, Clem gives the baby to trustworthy stranger Nate. "Hey kid, hold my gun! I need to piss!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 02:09
|
|
|
Press X to throw the baby at a walker and get out of one QTE.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 02:16
|
|
|
dongsbot 9000 posted:if they go with clem for s3 (no doubt cuz everyone loves clem), i hope they just pick a canon ending, either clem/aj + jane + family or clem/aj + wellington (-kenny) because it would be so stupid if they try to line up all the different endings. sure, it might go against the "YOUR DECISIONS MATTER" theme but i think it's pretty clear to most players that our decisions don't really matter for plot, just story. I don't like Clem that much? I mean, I liked her in season 1 but she was the reason for Lee's motivation to protect her and not be a dick every chance he could and try to redeem himself. All the agency that Clem had in season 2 felt made up (like Alvin asking Clem to go look for food.) Season 3 doesn't need Clem.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 02:35
|
|
|
DeathChicken posted:Happy medium, Clem gives the baby to trustworthy stranger Nate. "Hey kid, hold my gun! I need to piss!" The ultimate duo, Nate and Clem. This is a storyline I could get behind.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
The protagonist of season 3 is going to be Kenny, especially if you shot him like a dummy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 02:53
|
|
|
Prokhor Zakharov posted:The protagonist of season 3 is going to be Kenny, especially if you shot him like a dummy. Maybe it can be like the opening to season 2 of Sledge Hammer. (season 3 opens with Clem/Jane/random mook shooting Kenny) "Five years earlier..."
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 03:11
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:All the agency that Clem had in season 2 felt made up... Felt like this could go here       
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 03:11
|
|
|
Bass Bottles posted:Having Clem take care of AJ all season might get annoying, but it would also fit with her character arc the nicest. She goes from being dependent in season one, to struggling with agency and dependence in season two, and finally having someone dependent on her in season three. everyone depended on clem in season 2, clem was literally the only agent in the game besides maybe jane for like two seconds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 09:54
|
|
|
laplace posted:everyone depended on clem in season 2, clem was literally the only agent in the game besides maybe jane for like two seconds. Well as the player character, yeah, but I felt like she was waffling between different potential Lee replacements with Luke, Kenny, and Jane. Maybe that was just my dumb interpretation, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 14:42
|
|
|
Clem is a strong mixed-race girl who don't need no Lee. Everybody else was pretty much just using her as a surrogate for all their dumb problems and grief.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2014 15:12
|
|
|
Which really makes the best ending the one where she chases off the family at the gates. Guy: Hey, we could use your help! Clem: *draws gun* gently caress off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2014 16:21
|
|
|
Bass Bottles posted:Well as the player character, yeah, but I felt like she was waffling between different potential Lee replacements with Luke, Kenny, and Jane. Maybe that was just my dumb interpretation, though. I think that was the intention, especially when the player gets the choice of which group to sit with. I think that the dissatisfaction stems mainly from the fact that this dynamic evaporates and you're left with a different story that isn't bad itself but feels like a bait and switch. Come to think of it, that was how The Wolf Among Us felt too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2014 18:51
|
|
|
1stGear posted:Clem is a strong mixed-race girl who don't need no Lee. Everybody else was pretty much just using her as a surrogate for all their dumb problems and grief. I didn't mean it like that, I just meant that the theme of the game was "family is important." Or maybe it was "family is important?" Dibujante posted:I think that was the intention, especially when the player gets the choice of which group to sit with. I think that the dissatisfaction stems mainly from the fact that this dynamic evaporates and you're left with a different story that isn't bad itself but feels like a bait and switch. Come to think of it, that was how The Wolf Among Us felt too. It sounds like they re-write the endings based on player reactions. It would be better if they just stuck to their guns and ignored that stuff, I think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2014 19:00
|
|
|
Well, to Telltale's credit they do still know how to end strong. Just picked up Season 2 recently on the steam sale and played the episodes back to back. One of the things I liked about the ending I got was it gave me a good reason for a major shift in character from the Clem I was playing. Throughout the season she did her best to follow the values my Lee taught her in season 1. She was diplomatic and kind, but at the same time brave enough to stand up for herself and take the heat to spare her friends. Though it was a struggle at times she more or less stayed true to those ideals throughout, including killing Kenny because she couldn't just sit idly by and let him murder Jane without knowing what actually happened to the baby. Once she found out what Jane did, though, that was it for Diplomatic Clem. It would not have been humanly possible to click [Leave Jane] faster because after all the poo poo they went through, all the betrayals that happened throughout the season, Jane forcing Clem's hand and causing her to kill Kenny over petty bullshit was the last straw. Congrats Jane, you got what you wanted and helped Clem embrace the loner way of life because she sure as poo poo wasn't going anywhere with you. The visual of Clem walking alone with AJ through the herd was legitimately powerful in that regard. If Clem is the protagonist in Season 3 she's going to be a lot harder, and I hope to Christ that Bonnie and Mike show up because my Clem will poo poo on them at every opportunity. All that said, I don't think the ending made up for all the missteps and poor writing in this season. The game felt on the rails from beginning to end, with a lot of deaths that had little narrative meaning and few compelling relationships outside of the ones between Clem and Kenny (which felt like a writing crutch to be honest, piggybacking off the stellar writing from S1), Carver, and to a lesser extent Luke and Sarah. The changes in the writing staff for this season were readily apparent. The plot seemed to meander from one contrived situation after another, and the final episode made it especially obvious that Telltale decided they wanted Clem to be responsible for someone's death and were working backwards from there. Hopefully that's something they can fix for S3, but this one doesn't give me a lot of confidence. I also think they missed a major opportunity with the branching endings. The loudest complaints across both seasons have been that in the end the player's choices have very little affect on the story's outcome, though it made sense that there was little Telltale could do in that regard because they were always writing towards a single strong conclusion and thus couldn't afford to allow much variation. But in S2 they made the choice to give you FIVE different endings, but limited them to being the result of a couple choices that happened immediately beforehand. It seems like if they were planning to have multiple endings from the beginning, they could have gone a lot further with it and make various endings only accessible based on some of the major choices you make across the five episodes. It would have been really cool to see, for example, the decision on whether to save Sarah, or whether to trust Luke's pleas when he was trapped on the ice vs. Bonnie's, or how you chose to interact with Carver ultimately having an impact on which ending choices you could receive. That would have gone a long way to giving the death's of various characters more meaning. All in all I'm sure I'll buy S3, but not until it's done and I can buy the entire season on sale again. Season 1 was worth the $25.00 and the long wait between episodes, but I'm glad I waited and picked up Season 2 for eight bucks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 17:29
|
|
|
 I have spoilers here, but I didn't tag them. Please skip over my post if you don't want to read them.Just finished and I enjoyed it a lot. I felt that the game really went well with the choices I had made, unlike s1 where playing a good Lee made the ending feel more contrived. In this case, my conception of Clem was based off of learning from a good Lee. She was left with this burning ideal that we continue on in being a good person regardless of what is happening around us. Because she's a child and alone and scared, however, this ideal falters on occasion during season 2. Further, I really disliked Kenny in s1 so when I saw him in s2, my first reaction was to hug him because he was a "friendly" face, but quickly after my feelings returned. I saw that he had changed from his belligerent bully self so I tried being passive aggressive with him. I also felt Clem probably had a little bit of a crush on Luke, so she sat with him instead. But as time went on, I was more often trying to get the group to forgive Kenny, maybe because I wanted to forgive him. I also wanted Clem to eventually grow to a character who simply did what was right regardless of the fears of her companions or what could happen as a result. The end proved to be very complex for me. I tried to save them both, but in the end had to shoot Kenny. Clem, in my eyes, finally had power to make a difference, and she wasn't going to do that by sitting by while someone she really cared about got murdered. I felt bad for doing it until Kenny validated it for me. I realized that he was probably better off dead. When I learned of Jane's contrived scenario to unhinge Kenny, I was mad at her for setting Kenny up. But I had gone the whole game preaching forgiveness to Kenny and forgiveness to anyone else. Now I had the opportunity to forgive Jane, so I did. I wanted Clem to be the bigger person, and honestly, she'd be stronger with Jane than without. The one thing I'm really disliking about the Walking Dead is the hopelessness the story has. It's like it is trying to beat into your heads the fact that life sucks and it will only continue to suck and if you try to make it better you will fail. But I liked to think that Clem, in choosing to forgive Jane and then not listening to Jane's fears, she was rebelling against that idea for the benefit of humanity. When she chose to let the family in, she didn't do it because she was scared to turn them away. She knew full and well that they could betray her. Instead, she decided that for things to get back to normal, there would have to be a moment when someone strong decided to help someone weak, and that strong person continued to help. She had made the decision that if she was going to die, she would do so not regretting her choices, and the only way she could do that is if she had made peace with the decision that she may be killed by her kindness, and that she always chose to help rather than to hurt. So in that instance, she helped. I saw her noticing the gun as a validation of the fact that she was consciously choosing to help, but was not naive of the fact that many people are still in survival mode rather than rebuilding mode. My hopes for S3 is that we skip ahead 10 or 15 years. We stay with Clem, and we see what she's doing with that place. I want to play in the position of someone who has a society under them, rather than a group trying to survive (which is played out). I want her to have to deal with being either a Carver or a good leader. And most of all, I really want to be able to tell a story of someone who resists the world around her and continues to build rather than going insane or being corrupted, etc. We've seen that, and it's OK.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2014 16:20
|
|
|
Stumpus posted:The one thing I'm really disliking about the Walking Dead is the hopelessness the story has. It's like it is trying to beat into your heads the fact that life sucks and it will only continue to suck and if you try to make it better you will fail. If you'd chosen to let Kenny live, as you should've done, then you would've gotten the hopeful, uplifting ending you want here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
Except that it's like the most contrived "poo poo is gonna go south and nothing is good and also you get your macguffin man taken away again" ending out of all of them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2014 21:28
|
|
|
So Episode 4, how do I throw Larry's death back in Kenny's face? Hypocritical poo poo. Game should've given me the opportunity at least. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2014 13:17
|
|
|
I think the best way they could implement The Walking Dead is to add mandatory real life DNA sequencing DRM, so that not only can't you pirate the game, but you can't play it more than once to realize just how railroaded you actually are. If a computer running Walking Dead so much as smells you in the same room, it should shut down. All copies would ideally also install key hijackers that prevent you from describing any events on forums that might have played out differently on others' games.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2014 13:57
|
|
|
That would suck because then you couldn't watch loved ones play it after you and judge them for every decision they make
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2014 14:08
|
|
|
Oh gently caress. gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress. Just finished Episode 5, crying like a goddamn baby. Let Kenny kill Jane. Broke down and stayed at Wellington, letting Kenny walk off alone. I need a warm bath and tub of ice cream. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:Oh gently caress. gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress. Just finished Episode 5, crying like a goddamn baby. Now watch the True Ending at the top of the OP.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
So did Luke ever actually... do anything? They painted him as somewhat competent, but he generally fucks up big time and ended up abandoning his post to get laid, and essentially got Sarah killed. Really dude? Couldn't wait until nightfall or something for that? I didn't really feel bad about what happened to him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2014 00:44
|
|
|
Well, apparently some unused dialogue has him instead of whatsherface arguing with Kenny.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2014 01:28
|
|
|
No... but you see... Luke had to die.... because he was nice.... and nice people.... they just don't survive.... not in the apocalypse..... not out here..... war.... war has changed....
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2014 04:39
|
|
|
WALL OF SPOILERTALK AHOY. Well like a lot of people probably, I just picked this up on the steam sale for relatively little and I've played it through over the course of a couple of days. I was a huge, huge fan of the first season; I think it's one of, if not the best storyline and character development in video games, along with some of the best voice acting. The ending reduced to me a blubbering man child one hungover Sunday morning a year ago, so I went into this with pretty high hopes and, besides some pretty annoying problems with the game whitescreening or outright freezing on me quite a lot (not a problem with either the first season which I played through again immediately before, or A Wolf Among Us which I just getting into and seems equally as excellent), despite those problems I've come away amazed once again. I liked the way the game went and the choices it made Clem have to take, there was no sugarcoating, she's an orphan with no friends in an apocalyptic world where we've even seen the strong die by now. I also liked the development of the world as a whole, the idea that the walker problem isn't getting any better and there really seems to be even less hope on the horizon for living the longer the whole thing goes on. Clem had to toughen up a whole bunch in the first episode and the section with TellTale went far with this theme, throughout the game Clem got screwed over by people stronger, older or bigger than her frequently and the only way she could get around this was to either be cold and ruthless back or be more cunning. As such, the relationships in this game for me were much more strained in a realistic way because I got to the point where I didn't trust anybody but myself and then they threw you that amazing curveball of having Kenny show up out of nowhere, giving you a glimmer of hope in a adult you knew you could trust, that cared for you but then having the world around him break him down to the point where he became completely unreliable, much like most everybody else in the story ended up being. My Clem was never really attached to Rebecca; she was cold and callous from the beginning and wanted to leave her to die, so the apologies after fell on deaf ears and got passive aggressive answers, at best they were at a stalemate by the time the baby came and the choice between her or the child was harsh but easy to make. Nick reminded me greatly of Ben from Season 1, doomed to not make it. He constantly caused problems then tried more often than not to shirk responsibility for them, a large reason why I liked Pete and found it hard to make the smart choice of leaving the bit person behind, in my mind Clem knows first hand from Lee's death there is no point in trying to save a dying person if you can keep even a useless one alive. Alvin was a bit of a throwaway character I felt, he went out well but never seemed to have a great deal to say or do. Mike I liked quite well and it sucked when he turned on me, but frankly I'd given Arvo poo poo and stuck up for Kenny the whole time Kenny smacked him around because he was a lying little gently caress that got everybody shot with the ambush. Just because he didn't lie one time with the supplies didn't mean I could trust him again, I never believed his whole "sister needs meds for the pain so I'll just stash them in this dumpster" story either and robbed him. A character that got similar treatment was Bonnie, who outright lied to us from the outset and was the only reason we ended up in Carvers hands in the first place. Again, apologizing doesn't make any of that any better no matter how many times I tried and in the end she hosed me over. It didn't help that if you played 400 days you knew she was a lying junkie anyway. Sarah was touching and I tried to help her whenever I could but when it came down to her or me I bailed and her death was one of the more savage things I've seen from a game lately. Jane was a great character, conflicted but trying to be helpful and the ending was suitably incredible for that reason, I really felt lost as a player trying to decide between these two equally flawed people who both meant something to Clem. Jane was helpful, healthy and resourceful but had proven time and again to only care for herself to a fault and would leave without looking back at a moments notice. Kenny was loyal to the point of diving into herds of lurkers numerous times to protect people, he always had a plan and a fight to move forward and he was my last link to Lee and some semblance of normality. But he was losing it with the frequent Arvo beatings and losing his cool constantly which was leading him to being more and more rash. Whats interesting with my ending was that whilst Jane and Kenny were fighting there's a moment where I guess she thumbs his hosed up eye and blood pours out, I couldn't see which eye it was and thought she'd blinded him. In that moment thinking that a blind Kenny, who was losing it fast and could potentially have just folded up altogether if Jane had really killed the baby (and how can I trust her completely at a moments notice at that point). I shot Kenny and the conversation with him as he died where he forgives Clem and she says he can go and see Duck and Katjaa again made me tear up like a motherfucker. When Jane revealed she'd just hidden AJ to make him flip, I felt the same way that Clem actually reacted which was cool, basically "you had me shoot my only surviving friend who's saved me god knows how many times just so you could prove a loving point?! Not least the fact she abandoned a baby, and most recently me in the middle of a blizzard surrounded by walkers." I walked off and watching Jane crumble as Clem left was very powerful as was the ending scene of her walking through the herd of walkers with the baby with a sort of thousand yard stare look about her even in a situation like that, knowing she's alone but that like Lee she had to be there for somebody that couldn't protect themselves. I thought it was beautifully poignant. Ultimately they told the whole story great but the way playing as Clem you had to make decisions as an adult made you realize how odd this little 11 year olds life has had to become. They're sat around a campfire in chapter 5 and she, obviously, doesn't really know anything about sex when they're discussing it. I'd forgotten up to that point that she was even a child, that there was a time when she didn't have to be this way and it was normal for her to be innocent and not know things. Seeing Clem deprived of that in season 2 and end it as something no child should ever have had to be is as powerful of a message as TellTale sent in all 10 episodes so far. Loved the Lee flashback too, it was heart wrenching to see him again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2014 18:37
|
|
|
Well really, the game keeps hammering and hammering the point that sometimes the most merciful thing is to just put someone down. Whether it's a Walker or Lee or Duck or Kenny who had been dead internally since he lost his family, sometimes people are too far gone and you're doing them a disservice by not letting go. The Jane thing was interesting, since she was kind of right in that one nudge to Kenny sent him right off the edge to Crazytown without even hearing a situation out. And with that said, Clem's "You did all that to prove a point? You're loving crazy" choice was also spot on and there should have been an option to shoot her in the knee. That rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2014 19:13
|
|
|
I would have loved to kneecap Jane. That would have been wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
laplace posted:I would have loved to kneecap Jane. That would have been wonderful. I mean, listening to her beg for me not to leave was great, but that would've been the icing on the cake for that ending.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2014 20:20
|
|
|
mycot posted:Now watch the True Ending at the top of the OP. We made an alternate ending for season one internally, when waiting for the game to go through certification while most of the team was on post-release vacation. It was similar to this in spirit, but involved Lee slicing heads off while doing flip jumps (thanks jurassic park game fight scene mocap!) and moonwalking (thanks back to the future game animation library!) down the road to the Marsh House. I miss it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2015 04:08
|
|
|
ja2ke posted:We made an alternate ending for season one internally, when waiting for the game to go through certification while most of the team was on post-release vacation. It was similar to this in spirit, but involved Lee slicing heads off while doing flip jumps and moonwalking down the road to the Marsh House. I miss it. Release this to the public, immediately.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:Release this to the public, immediately. I don't even know if it exists anymore! I'm glad its spirit lives on in that season two video though. ja2ke fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jan 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2015 04:10
|
|
|
ja2ke posted:We made an alternate ending for season one internally, when waiting for the game to go through certification while most of the team was on post-release vacation. It was similar to this in spirit, but involved Lee slicing heads off while doing flip jumps (thanks jurassic park game fight scene mocap!) and moonwalking (thanks back to the future game animation library!) down the road to the Marsh House. I miss it. When you picked up one of the many bananas scattered in the world, did the voice of Sean Vanaman say "That's the stuff"?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2015 14:06
|
|
|
I'm still miffed about no one calling Clem out on taking the watch from the desk in Episode 1. When you give it to Nick or whatever he's just like 'thanks!' instead of 'Why the gently caress did you take my golden watch out of the desk, Clem........' I deliberately left it where it was because I thought they'd get mad when they found out I took it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2015 14:45
|
|
|
I kind of laughed at that one since it seemed at the time stealing a watch would have just been an rear end in a top hat move for being an rear end in a top hat. Then later they're like "I wish someone had gotten the watch."
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2015 17:54
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:When you picked up one of the many bananas scattered in the world, did the voice of Sean Vanaman say "That's the stuff"? I also made that, actually, and sent it to Nick Breckon a little while after he started at Telltale. I had Vanaman record three random variants of "That's the stuff," so it wasn't the same sound every time you pick up a banana. (Thanks Tales of Monkey Island for providing me with an engine-ready banana to leave hovering and spinning around the Everett drug store to be collected.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
more I think about it the more Sarah's deck death just seems like an absolute waste. Episode 3 and 4 displayed a really great contrast of Clementine's outlook, with 3 being a descent into the  aspects of being a hardened survivor to 4's caring about others even if they are a burden. Frankly Sarah is a ridiculous liability in her state that totally could get someone killed but dumping her due to that is full Crawford. I was actually curious if they were trying to set up the dynamic from season 1 where the player feels responsible for someone else and tailors their decisions around whats best for them. Kind of like Clem taking up the spirit of Lee.I mean hell, the sheer determination required to get her out of the mobile home was probably the most exciting part of the episode for me. Afterwards you have that moral debate with Jane bringing up the central theme of surviving for yourself vs living for family and it seems like the arc is going places. Plus it seemed like the perfect time for a callback to the pinky swear. And then we got deck falls, everyone dies. Sure her death cut me good, but especially with the  character reactions it just leaves a real sour aftertaste.I get that AJ was supposed to be the subject for that bond but christ its a loving baby, its not a character its a plot device.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:53 |
|
|
I just never gave a poo poo about the baby. It was a really poor shoehorned attempt at feels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 04:51
|
|