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My general point is mostly that it seems very dodgy from an efficiency/reliability standpoint to heavily prioritize inspiration generation early game with stuff like early art and lavish meals when you're effectively pulling a slot machine lever to get any significant value out of it. Lavish meals are enormously inefficient from both a labor and a nutrient standpoint, which is a real issue early game when you don't have 10,000 corn and meat sitting in your freezer, and making sculptures requires a pawn to sit on their hands doing basically nothing for a notably long period of time. (I'm not disputing the value of lavish meals and art in general, just as an early game rush.)
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Sep 17, 2021 04:14
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Kanos posted:My general point is mostly that it seems very dodgy from an efficiency/reliability standpoint to heavily prioritize inspiration generation early game with stuff like early art and lavish meals when you're effectively pulling a slot machine lever to get any significant value out of it. Lavish meals are enormously inefficient from both a labor and a nutrient standpoint, which is a real issue early game when you don't have 10,000 corn and meat sitting in your freezer, and making sculptures requires a pawn to sit on their hands doing basically nothing for a notably long period of time. i don't mean to say that i routinely go from paste to lavish meals, fwiw - the labor portion of the issue does deter me for a little but until i get a drudge or two to help out around the base. but i do go from paste to fine within the first 4 quadrums, guaranteed, and that plus two good wooden statues will keep people in solid inspiration range for a huge part of their day. also, fwiw, don't overestimate how much work wooden statues take! a large wooden sculpture is 350 work-ticks to make. A single day is 1000 ticks, so a focused shift that leaves a pawn pissy and tired is between 500-600 ticks. a 10 hour work day like i posted in my schedule means a pawn can post up a single large sculpture a day while still remaining fed, amused, and rested - very easily. if the pawn has 8 skill (the minimum for me to consider them a 'specialist', and also around the time the general work speed averages out to 100% so the math i just did actually works), they have a 33% chance of producing a 'good' sculpture, so statistically i have the problem licked with 6 days of effort. it's actually a very small outlay of time to get an early inspiration train going, and to basically banish the concept of mental breaks from my colony. and, obviously, it sets me up for success so if i roll an early inspiration that's useful, i can spit out a masterwork sculpture and go straight to a final build in the first year. that's tons of time saved.
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Sep 17, 2021 05:13
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Inspiration talk makes me wonder, is there a way to game what inspirations your pawns get? I could do with less recruitment and taming inspirations.
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Sep 17, 2021 06:03
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Heffer posted:Inspiration talk makes me wonder, is there a way to game what inspirations your pawns get? I could do with less recruitment and taming inspirations. yes! but it's frequently more trouble than it's worth. taming is the big one that's easy to get rid of, since you need Animals 3+ for that. it's pretty easy to just not engage with that. social 3+ also means you can get inspired recruitment and inspired trade, which is...trickier. inspired recruitment is frustrating because it can be incredibly helpful in certain situations, but utterly useless in others and there's no easy way to discharge it. inspired trade is actually incredibly powerful, it's as impactful as an extra TWELVE levels of social skill for one trade so it's prime time to radio someone and tell them to send in an exotic goods trader for their skilltrainers. and social itself is also a useful skill because of the new social roles in ideology. but, it requires a lot of effort to raise, so if someone is a good crafter but has 2 social...maybe just turn off Warden on them. the other main one you can game out easily is Inspired Surgery, which is medical 3+. it's a bad inspiration, but in the longer term i consider it collateral damage to having a competent pawn. in the mid-game stretch, though, it's not too bad to just not have a pawn do experimental surgery on prisoners to grind the skill until after you have your first round of badass armor and at least one masterwork sniper rifle. the reason i regard it as more trouble than it's worth is because this is all stuff that goes into either creating the pawns when you start the game (which is a frustrating roll-fest unless you use Prepare Carefully to craft your pawns exactly to these thresholds - perfectly fine, but more gamey than rat meat), or goes into recruiting decisions. you often don't have the luxury of quite so fine a choice. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 06:13
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is it possible in this game with enough air conditioners and thick enough walls the pawns can survive like 350 Fahrenheit temps?
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Sep 17, 2021 06:20
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I saw this and thought of you, Coolguye.
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Sep 17, 2021 09:19
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20 Blunts posted:is it possible in this game with enough air conditioners and thick enough walls the pawns can survive like 350 Fahrenheit temps? As long as you make an appropriate airlock I don't even think you need the walls to be more than two thick
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Sep 17, 2021 10:01
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Yeah the biggest insulation losses are constructed roofs and you can't do much about those.
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Sep 17, 2021 11:17
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isndl posted:I saw this and thought of you, Coolguye. That’s just silly. Id have sleep accelerators on the beds.
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Sep 17, 2021 14:59
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isndl posted:I saw this and thought of you, Coolguye. How the hell do you use that many fab benches Surely some of them could be the smaller component assembly benches from the same mod that adds all those attachments Also some of those wall lights near the illuminated dressers/end tables seem kind of redundant
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Sep 17, 2021 15:20
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i'm Dromedary 1279
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Sep 17, 2021 16:07
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:i'm Dromedary 1279 i was personally drawn to YUNNERS 1 and YUNNERS 2
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Sep 17, 2021 16:32
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Coolguye posted:your point on bad ones is well made though, inspired recruitment and inspired surgery can generally kiss the narrowest part of my rear end. I also filed a bug report on this - the current skill floor for inspired surgery is 3 medical skill, which isn't enough to even do most surgeries. Tynan seemed to agree in his reply, but nothing's actually changed.
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Sep 17, 2021 16:33
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if you have prisoners around to do the usual denture/pegleg/wooden hand dance then inspired surgery helps a ton getting over the hump from level 3, when you can do those operations, to level 5 or 6, when they become reliable enough that it only takes one or two more prisoners before you have a professional doctor on your hands. but that's an incredibly narrow use-case and in general expending the inspiration is something i regard as a chore, not an opportunity.
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Sep 17, 2021 16:42
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No, seriously, I feel REAL good about trying this amputation today
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Sep 17, 2021 16:59
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Coolguye posted:if you have prisoners around to do the usual denture/pegleg/wooden hand dance then inspired surgery helps a ton getting over the hump from level 3, when you can do those operations, to level 5 or 6, when they become reliable enough that it only takes one or two more prisoners before you have a professional doctor on your hands. but that's an incredibly narrow use-case and in general expending the inspiration is something i regard as a chore, not an opportunity. Does the EPOE mod remove the ability to place peg legs? Every once in a while I try to troubleshoot why I can't install them or craft them and haven't figured it out.
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Sep 17, 2021 17:48
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sharkbomb posted:Does the EPOE mod remove the ability to place peg legs? Every once in a while I try to troubleshoot why I can't install them or craft them and haven't figured it out. I think you need to have smithing learned before you can install the legs.
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Sep 17, 2021 18:03
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sharkbomb posted:Does the EPOE mod remove the ability to place peg legs? Every once in a while I try to troubleshoot why I can't install them or craft them and haven't figured it out. there's a few gotchas here that i have run into 1) make sure you have sufficient medicine. i have noticed that if the patient is set to industrial meds, under random circumstances it will decide you don't have resources to do the procedure even if you have more than enough herbals. there IS a good reason to use industrial meds in this case because a failed surgery gets you something like 1/4th of the XP of a successful one, but alternatively it's reasonable to say that you don't care and you're fine using herbals on what amounts to disposable PoWs. you might need to set them to herbal meds. 2) you have to have 1 wood available. by which i mean it needs to be in a stockpile, for every other goddamned job on the planet it's not a big deal to to have wood just lying around in the middle of nowhere but for peg legs and wooden hands specifically being on a stockpile seems to matter. it's dumb af. i haven't used EPOE in a very long time so i couldn't tell you if there's a specific problem with that mod.
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Sep 17, 2021 18:10
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sharkbomb posted:Does the EPOE mod remove the ability to place peg legs? Every once in a while I try to troubleshoot why I can't install them or craft them and haven't figured it out. I don't think EPOE overrides the vanilla definition/convention that there isn't a separate intermediary item to craft for peg legs, only a surgery to install a log edit: must have been thinking of the forked version? silentsnack fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 18:13
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EPOE might require that you do the first research in their tab before you can really do any surgery.
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Sep 17, 2021 18:24
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EPOE is a horrible mod that changes a bunch of body part defs for no reason, has a lot of mysterious vague incompatibility due to that, and basically destroys your save if you ever have to remove it. Use something like Advanced Bionics Expansion instead.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:39
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is there any way to give prisoners access to the outside, other than by staking them out in a roofless enclosure? they can't use doors unless they're trying to escape, and if you have any part of a room unroofed, it's not an indoor space i want to give them a free-range area where they can roam around and satisfy their Outdoors need, and, preferably, have them stop seducing my wardens
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Sep 17, 2021 22:45
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Asimo posted:EPOE is a horrible mod that changes a bunch of body part defs for no reason, has a lot of mysterious vague incompatibility due to that, and basically destroys your save if you ever have to remove it. Use something like Advanced Bionics Expansion instead. As another alternative, EPOE Forked accomplishes everything EPOE does except it's infinitely less spaghetti code broken and is way more compatible with basically everything.
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Sep 18, 2021 01:07
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:is there any way to give prisoners access to the outside, other than by staking them out in a roofless enclosure? they can't use doors unless they're trying to escape, and if you have any part of a room unroofed, it's not an indoor space (Prisoners will use any connected room if the door is left open)
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Sep 18, 2021 01:31
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ShadowHawk posted:Prisoners don't normally have an outdoors need, that's coming from a mod. I'd suggest getting something like prisoner recreation mod and giving them an outdoor telescope room. Can you just give them animal doors? the curtains of fabric?
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Sep 18, 2021 01:56
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SugarAddict posted:Can you just give them animal doors? the curtains of fabric?
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Sep 18, 2021 01:57
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RE: EPOE and other Bionics mods This spreadsheet lists out what each mod does at what cost https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xZaHNbrRg_4vl6HeRlmTmvFfIB1cjUtCGhg8wjtXISk/edit#gid=0 sharkbomb posted:Does the EPOE mod remove the ability to place peg legs? Every once in a while I try to troubleshoot why I can't install them or craft them and haven't figured it out. Also lol some of those material prices in original EPOE are so out of wack compared to vanilla and other mods lurksion fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 02:20
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EPOE needs basic prosthetics researched and a peg leg crafted, EPOE forked keeps the vanilla surgery but still locks it behind the basic prosthetics research.
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Sep 18, 2021 02:26
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How do you guys generate money on your starts and get a good supply of components?
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Sep 18, 2021 04:04
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Crack, mostly. I always have trouble finding reliable buyers for slaves. I've made clothes sweatshops work but that's not worth the hassle early in, with all the extra steps and reliance on high-skilled crafters. components are always scarce until you can manufacture them and then you're loving drowning in components and it's plasteel you can never get enough of A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 04:06
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TipsyMcStagger posted:How do you guys generate money on your starts and get a good supply of components? corn. it doesn't sell for much per unit but it keeps a good long while and is efficient in terms of work input for the value when you're starting out.
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Sep 18, 2021 04:08
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TipsyMcStagger posted:How do you guys generate money on your starts and get a good supply of components? The answer depends heavily on your map. If you're in an area with a whole lot of soil and a half-decent growing period, you're going to make most of your early money off growing things. Drugs(primarily flake), beer, and excess food are all good money making candidates; clothing sells somewhat decently as well and crafting shitloads of junk dusters is a great way to level crafters. If your biome restricts your growing ability due to bad climate or lack of available soil, your best bet to build up an initial nest egg is probably art made from stone blocks.
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Sep 18, 2021 04:54
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TipsyMcStagger posted:How do you guys generate money on your starts and get a good supply of components? Hunt things and turn them into dusters, levels your crafters and makes a lot of money (too much on higher difficulties, you'll actually have to burn a lot of them to keep wealth down) especially if you have production specialists. Growing stuff works well but the wealth comes in spikes which can be harder to deal with, hunting is more controllable. If you're playing on low difficulties or on wealth independent mode though go nuts with the cotton/devilstrand. Oh and make the dusters on unpowered benches outside/in bad temperature, that way you get the most xp per material used.
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Sep 18, 2021 05:22
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I pretty much only play on Randy Random so the question is more how do you not make money
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Sep 18, 2021 05:51
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:is there any way to give prisoners access to the outside, other than by staking them out in a roofless enclosure? they can't use doors unless they're trying to escape, and if you have any part of a room unroofed, it's not an indoor space Not sure how you're getting an Outdoors need on your prisoners, but a room with over 75% roofing is considered indoors for most game purposes. The unroofed tiles leak temperature like crazy and items will decay in them, but it's still enough to fill an Outdoors need if you put a table there for them to eat at. I've actually taken to using the partial roofing trick in my stockpiles, the center five squares on an orbital trade beacon zone are naturally just out of reach of roof support. Unzone those five so you don't leave things to degrade there, when you buy something off a trader it'll land on top of the beacon so it's easy to collect, and the rest of the stockpile is considered indoors so nothing suffers degradation. SugarAddict posted:Can you just give them animal doors? the curtains of fabric? I haven't tested them myself but from what I've read they're weirdly identical to regular doors for most purposes, with the exception that pen animals can use them on their own. They're still "locked" for hostiles, presumably because it's an easy way to keep wildlife from using them, but that means it's still a locked door when raiders show up and try to figure out pathing. Gates seem to be completely identical to doors except for lower HP/cost and faster opening speed, which makes me wonder about using them indoors in lieu of regular doors in the early game.
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Sep 18, 2021 06:14
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TipsyMcStagger posted:How do you guys generate money on your starts and get a good supply of components? yeah the answer is a mixture of the above corn, crack, and cocoa are the three trade goods you will revolve around for most maps (read: the maps where you can actually grow poo poo). corn is the early game play - the ground does most of the work of producing it and it scales fantastically with added plants skill on various pawns. cocoa is the mid-game play, if you are not in a place that routinely gets to less than -10C. much under that will start damaging the plant and it might not survive the winter. crack is the most-the-rest-of-the-game play. the big thing about cocoa is that chocolate is a low weight, high value item that pretty much any kind of merchant will accept. it's almost like growable silver in that way. crack is similar (not ALL merchants accept it, but most do) but it scales a lot better. the issue with chocolate is that it's extremely land hungry and grows super drat slow. if it was only one of these two it wouldn't be an issue - it doesn't matter if it takes a year to get in a harvest if you don't have to do anything in that year and the harvest gives you enough trade goods to last the next year - but to get 10k+ silver you would need to make that happen you'd have to put something like a quarter or a third of a medium-sized map under the plow. i instead recommend using cocoa trees as the perimeter and road decorations for your base. ring your main base in them in a 3 by x growing zone, let your pawns fill in the cocoa trees, and then delete the growing zones where the trees are not actually growing (to stop unproductive 'cut grass' and etc crap from coming up). if your roads between buildings are 3 wide to provide easy choke points (my preference), plant cocoa trees in the drags between chokepoints. it pretties up the area a bit, acts as asinine cover for 'clever' idiots, and is productive. still though, even with all of this clever crowbarring, it won't be enough chocolate to suit your needs. crack, however, scales up to way more than you can generally handle without too much issue, since there's no 'must be 2 squares apart' crap when working with psychite. if you can't grow stuff because you're in an arid shrubland or whatever, your primary method of trade in the very early game will be textiles from hunted animals. and depending on how much else you have going on in the base, it may be to your benefit to just sell the raw leather. dusters are actually not the best thing to do if you have either expansion installed; formal vests and corsets outclass dusters in Royalty, and most of the new headgear in ideology either out-edges dusters or are so close that the difference in silver is largely academic. this is important because while resource for resource you will get roughly the same performance, you can't build a new duster with 79 leather, but you CAN build two more hats. if you have a good constructor, but not a good crafter, armchairs are another option. they're just an even worse one because the threshold is even higher - 110 rather than 80. the primary reason all of this kinda sucks though is because you actually do have to reason about the skill of the crafter in order to establish if you're making money. the cutoff point varies based on the material but to cut it to a sound bite, you need a level 6 constructor or crafter to guarantee turning a profit on the textiles. decide for yourself whether it makes sense to put that person to work squeezing a few extra silver out of your stashes or some other task. longer term you are definitely going to be making money on stone or steel. stone blows rear end because your supply line is kind of a pain. you'll want a bunch of deep drills, which are hard to scale, and then you're gonna use a ton of goddamn time refining all of that into blocks for statues. small statues are best in terms of value and it's actually significant, you get something like a 15% gain over a large statue, which is itself another 15% gain over grand. you can also make money on stone furniture (best stuff is dressers and end tables) but it's far inferior to statues. honestly just contemplating trying to do this sounds awful. steel you have slightly more options. you can make weapons. steel maces are best, they're not worth much at 120 base but you can make 3 of them in the time it takes you to make 1 longsword or spear. steel furniture also works. sunlamps are surprisingly good rate of return, i think they're actually better until you have something like a level 12 crafter turning out all good/excellent maces. but bluntly it still sounds loving miserable. overall, imo? trade is so powerful in this game that non-arable areas are best just abandoned. if you land on an arid shrubland for whatever reason, your first priority should be getting the food you need to pick up and leave. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 07:25
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completely unrelated but i've always appreciated how loving dumb the wiki can be out of nowhere. i was scanning the basic 'colony planning guide' to see if there were any ideas i hadn't considered and came across this little gem, emphasis mine (https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Colony_Building_Guide#Vanometric_power_cell): quote:Vanometric power cell oh, word?
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Sep 18, 2021 08:20
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what's the name of that mod that lets you assemble new pawns from spare parts again, feeling like a challenge
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Sep 18, 2021 09:00
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:what's the name of that mod that lets you assemble new pawns from spare parts again, feeling like a challenge Questionable Ethics lets you clone 'em using whatever meat and veges you've had lying around as feed stock (after some processing), and Android Tiers lets you build pawns out of components (i.e. spare parts)!
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Sep 18, 2021 09:21
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oh no I've got those, this was for making Frankensteins out of all those extra pirate livers you've got lying around
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Sep 18, 2021 09:24
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