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Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


OwlFancier posted:

One small thing, complete the wall just near the sandbags so that it roofs over that area, then don't put any lights in. Being in the darkness will give your colonists like -20% to being shot.

Cool, thanks for the tip!

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boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013
Is a lamaphobe -->


All those batteries. How big are the explosions when you get a short circuit?

I usually arrange my hydroponics into 8x8 rooms. You can fit nine tables in there, all covered by one lamp (except for one corner, which isn't bright enough to grow). This way you can avoid having too many sun lamps, each of which needs 600w of power.

Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


Popular Thug Drink posted:

All those batteries. How big are the explosions when you get a short circuit?

I usually arrange my hydroponics into 8x8 rooms. You can fit nine tables in there, all covered by one lamp (except for one corner, which isn't bright enough to grow). This way you can avoid having too many sun lamps, each of which needs 600w of power.

Yeah, that may have been a bit of overkill. That was my first successful base, so it was sort of helter skelter in many respects. I don't think the explosions scale much, if at all. I'm pretty sure I recall a 30 KJ explosion similar/equal in size to an 80 KJ one, but I never had any major issues with explosions other than the fact that they're just one more thing loving with my power supply.

That sounds like a good hydroponic system! My current game has a similar, but probably still not quite as efficient, set-up. I definitely overused sun lamps in that initial game, I didn't realize at the time quite how much power they draw. (Equivalent to 4 standing lamps.) The hydroponic system was sort of cobbled together, the L closest to the courtyard used to be the a series of too-small bedrooms that got converted after I realized I could just terrify my colonists into submission and they wouldn't complain about all bunking together. A lot of the areas were built up because I was simply swimming in resources.

Another mistake that I made was putting a lot of things (batteries, hydroponics, solar panels) in large blocks that were flush to walls that I couldn't access from the other side, thereby blocking access for repairs.

Oh, and I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but Tynan said he's looking to do monthly content updates.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Monthly updates would be pretty boss.

I really wish there was like, tiers of construction quality.

It stands to reason that lovely junk walls and exposed wire hammered out of unrefined ore would be pretty weak and prone to short circuiting, and that you'd be able to build that with minimal skill, resource, and time investment.

But I really hope there's an option in the future to build actual decent walls and conduits and batteries, which don't keep exploding and discharging and consume 50% of the input charge in efficiency costs and constantly need maintenance. Maybe tie it to construction skill, only skilled constructors can build the higher quality stuff. As it stands a good constructor is not so useful at the moment.

Oh also you don't need sun lamps at all. Crops grow fine in regular lamplight, I'm not sure what the point of sun lamps is.

Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


Found the post:

"I think something close to monthly is an optimal schedule. But this doesn't mean I'm promising a release on the same day every month. I'll try to do it but I don't want people to jump down my throat if one version happens to take a bit longer or I get sick or something."

http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=1952.0

I fully expect something similar to what you described (re: walls) to be implemented, but it's a good idea, regardless. And oh god, the explosions and the solar flares and the eclipses and arrrrgh, those are by far my least favorite aspect of the game. It's still super early days yet, though, so I'm hopeful those things will be toned down/become exclusively early game issues.

Oh, word? Good to know about the standing lamps. I imagine that'll be something that gets fixed earlier rather than later, but who knows really. It's useful in the meantime. One of the reasons I spammed sun lamps was because I didn't feel like loving around with a million little lamps in my way everywhere, but now I see the error of my ways. 4-1 ratio AND they work for hydroponics? Count me in.

Nut to Butt fucked around with this message at Feb 7, 2014 around 21:22

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Lighting in general could use some looking at. Standing lamps make sense for outdoor use, because there's nothing to mount them on. But the game should perhaps have indoor lights which are a bit cheaper to build/run but perhaps require a roof (for ceiling lights) or short circuit in the rain (for just general indoor freestanding lights)

Also I'd really like radium lights built with radioactives, which use no power and work during solar flares, for emergency lighting and whatnot.

It'd be nice if sun lamps especially were buildable on the ceiling layer or something, apparently we're getting manual ceiling control soon, so perhaps we can get ceiling tiles which provide light?

Jet Jaguar
Feb 12, 2006

Don't touch my bags if you please, Mr. Customs Man.



Pillbug

I've been playing this a lot recently, even though most of my colonies get slaughtered or they all starve to death when there's an eclipse, followed by a solar flare and then a rainstorm.

There are some interesting defensive strategies on the forums--I really liked this particular killzone.

Reading the change notes is interesting, looks like the next build will have some cooking and hunting. There are also user-controlled roofing options and cannibalism, which looks like a different alternative to digging a handful of graves at a time for those raiders.

I think I read somewhere that a 6x6 room is what's required to be not a cramped living condition, but that seems kinda big.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



The game is designed for very small numbers of colonists, which may be what causes the room requirements to be so large.

Though it would be nice to be able to make better quality rooms to offset the size requirements. Rooms should probably be purely quality based, with a logarythmic size requirement, absolutely tiny rooms will make people very unhappy, but medium sized ones will be easily offset by some quality materials.

Also yeah, the new food stuff looks pretty great, apparently the crafting system should be moddable to make all sorts of stuff, as it's the basis for most of the production stuff in the game to come.

Lprsti99
Apr 7, 2011

Everything's coming up explodey!



Pillbug

Yep, love this game, it's the KS I'm most happy with backing. Haven't played for a while, think I'm going to wait for the next update before jumping back in.

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Heroes of the Reich, reporting.

Lprsti99 posted:

Yep, love this game, it's the KS I'm most happy with backing. Haven't played for a while, think I'm going to wait for the next update before jumping back in.

Yeah I am really looking forward to the next update. Hopefully the modding community gets going as well. I had a look recently and all I really saw was someone trying to mod in ALL THE GUNS and that was about it.

Jet Jaguar
Feb 12, 2006

Don't touch my bags if you please, Mr. Customs Man.



Pillbug

Some interesting comments by the developer in this thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/co...bout_turrets_i/

Two words caught my eye: war muffalo.

And it looks like it will be here sooner than I thought! https://twitter.com/TynanSylvester/...198401919569920

Tynan Sylvester posted:

Internal testers are going over Alpha 2 now

Jet Jaguar fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2014 around 02:28

Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


Alpha 2 is out now! Cannibalism is now in the game

Here's a video about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhw3j_pYWnI

And the changelog:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ANZZPOHyNsg/pub

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Drink Cheerwine posted:

Alpha 2 is out now! Cannibalism is now in the game

Here's a video about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhw3j_pYWnI

And the changelog:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ANZZPOHyNsg/pub

I was looking for the thread for ten minutes to post this, where did you hide it?

Downloading it now because I want to see what else you can build out of the stone blocks.

Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


I auto-favorite threads I've posted in.

From the changelog, regarding stoneworking:

"Added stone economy: stonecutter’s table, crafting worktype, stone cutting workgiver, stone blocks thing, stone tiles floor, low stone wall, high stone wall."

"Finished up stone economy with stone walls."

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Drink Cheerwine posted:

I auto-favorite threads I've posted in.

From the changelog, regarding stoneworking:

"Added stone economy: stonecutter’s table, crafting worktype, stone cutting workgiver, stone blocks thing, stone tiles floor, low stone wall, high stone wall."

"Finished up stone economy with stone walls."

Weirdly the only things I can find to build are stone tile floors and stone walls. No low walls or furniture.

Still, the premise is nice, I like the option for natural resource utilisation with rewards for doing it. Metal's great for building anything but having specific resources seems like it's going to let you do more specialist things.

Jet Jaguar
Feb 12, 2006

Don't touch my bags if you please, Mr. Customs Man.



Pillbug

The stone walls are a lot more durable than the metal walls--they can take at least one exploding turret without collapsing

The revised cooking workflow takes a bit of getting used to. I kept wondering why all the squirrels were just sitting there and then I remembered you needed the prep table, too. Hunting is a bit awkward since it's so manual yet, but that should change.

Think I should try modding in a still so I have something to do with all those potatoes.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Jet Jaguar posted:

The stone walls are a lot more durable than the metal walls--they can take at least one exploding turret without collapsing

The revised cooking workflow takes a bit of getting used to. I kept wondering why all the squirrels were just sitting there and then I remembered you needed the prep table, too. Hunting is a bit awkward since it's so manual yet, but that should change.

Think I should try modding in a still so I have something to do with all those potatoes.

I actually had been having some trouble with cooking, while quality meals do provide some happiness boosts, the colonists are a bit stupid and will regularly just try to eat raw meat until they become suicidal, even if other options are available.

At the moment I find that just growing berries is better, because they don't spoil for one thing.

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.

The new patch is pretty awesome, and I have been having a lot of fun with it. I started a new colony and have been puttering along, not really doing anything too amzingly well. I like the design I've come up with, though. Especially with the inclusion of rock walls. Basically, I have a compound that I've created with two doors set up as the main entrances. The growing takes place behind, and the rock walls will (eventually) enclose the compound.

I never really play this to win, instead I set it up as a challenge and see how far I can go. This time I'm using only solar power and no sentry turrets. I'm sure my colony will crash and burn but I've already survived three raids, the latest of which was made up of four raiders.

Have a look at my colony, I've dubbed it Wallaceton

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Actually sentry turrets are a bit rubbish, I think building them influences the director to send bigger raids which they almost never actively contribute to stopping.

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

"You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."


Hey neat there's a thread for this.

I've been playing this for months and it's one of my favourites. I get the sense that there is a ton of potential and the mod-friendly patch was such a good idea - their mod subforum is full of good poo poo. I installed most of them but the turret mods (I've removed turrets altogether from my game).


A thought I like to promote with this game:

Playing the combat part aggressively instead of using killzones and funnels tower-defence style reveals a bit of depth to the combat mechanics. There`s a bit of a realtime mini-jagged alliance hidden away that I hope some modder is going to flesh out in the future. You can get a good sense of this by building individual buildings outside to give yourself a little urban area full of alleys and corners and town squares and multiple paths through your colony like a little town. When the AI assaults you'll have all kinds of cover and flanking routes! The AI doesn't quite know how to use this to its advantage just yet (if you find yourself flanked it's only because that AI was on its way to some other static target when it saw one of your troops) but it's still fun to play with your toy soldiers.

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


It is pretty cool, and yes I definitely get a Jagged Alliance vibe when I don't just hunker into kill zones, but when you've got a dozen or more people fighting it gets really hard to manage constantly moving them in a real time with pause system. Kill zones are boring, but at least you can just send a horde of people to hunker down in some cover and let them do their thing, only needing to intervene to pull back wounded or overly exposed folks.

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

"You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."


Pornographic Memory posted:

It is pretty cool, and yes I definitely get a Jagged Alliance vibe when I don't just hunker into kill zones, but when you've got a dozen or more people fighting it gets really hard to manage constantly moving them in a real time with pause system. Kill zones are boring, but at least you can just send a horde of people to hunker down in some cover and let them do their thing, only needing to intervene to pull back wounded or overly exposed folks.

It's a good point and one that's always used in reply to my statement but to me I play this game for the very purpose of micromanaging the hell out of everything including 20 vs 20 battles. I spend the majority of my time in 1x or pause mode.

I feel like I would have been a perfect candidate for Dwarf Fortress if it had, you know, graphics.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Ironically DF is very poor on the real time micromanagement side, all your micromanagement happens months or years in advance, if you screw up in combat, it's because you didn't do something a year ago.

The combat is pretty good when you play out in the field, which is something that's been stated as the point. You're not technically supposed to hunker down in your fort all the time, though it's currently the most effective method most of the time. I still like to send sniper teams out to whittle down enemy groups.

It'd be nice if maybe big raider swarms could come in several small groups to encourage you to take out a couple with small teams before they join up and attack.

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.

OwlFancier posted:

Actually sentry turrets are a bit rubbish, I think building them influences the director to send bigger raids which they almost never actively contribute to stopping.

That's what I realized, so I decided to try out my new plan this colony. It's working out quite well so far, although I'm winning some skirmishes by the skin of my teeth.

OwlFancier posted:

The combat is pretty good when you play out in the field, which is something that's been stated as the point. You're not technically supposed to hunker down in your fort all the time, though it's currently the most effective method most of the time. I still like to send sniper teams out to whittle down enemy groups.

It'd be nice if maybe big raider swarms could come in several small groups to encourage you to take out a couple with small teams before they join up and attack.

Yeah, that's actually a really good idea. In Wallaceton I started with a pistol and a Lee Enfield, so I've been using my Enfield toting commissar as a skirmisher. When a group of raiders is coming in I'll have him meet them on the way in and pop off a couple shots. He usually doesn't hit, but sometimes I get lucky and he'll stun on of them for a while and get a second or third uncontested shot.

I've actually been considering building up some random sandbag emplacements on the approaches to my base. They would allow my colonists to have forward lines to meet attacks and soften them up a bit, then I could have them drop back to progressively to my actual stronghold.

The combat in the game is quite fun and involved for a game of this style. I think it's one of my favorite parts of the game. It's also pretty nice to have just 4-5 colonists to manage at one time, I prefer keeping my colonies pretty small and focused until later days.

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

"You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."


OwlFancier posted:

Ironically DF is very poor on the real time micromanagement side, all your micromanagement happens months or years in advance, if you screw up in combat, it's because you didn't do something a year ago.

That's loving hilarious. Also surprising to hear considering how popular it is, normally gamers boil over with rage at the sierra adventures game over effect.

Your idea about group banding spawns is fantastic. Go post it on Ludeon's forums stat!

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


Zigmidge posted:

That's loving hilarious. Also surprising to hear considering how popular it is, normally gamers boil over with rage at the sierra adventures game over effect.

Your idea about group banding spawns is fantastic. Go post it on Ludeon's forums stat!

Dwarf Fortress is the game that spawned the phrase "losing is fun", plus, seriously, an ASCII builder game with no mouse control? loving masochists.

Jet Jaguar
Feb 12, 2006

Don't touch my bags if you please, Mr. Customs Man.



Pillbug

Zigmidge posted:

Playing the combat part aggressively instead of using killzones and funnels tower-defence style reveals a bit of depth to the combat mechanics. There`s a bit of a realtime mini-jagged alliance hidden away that I hope some modder is going to flesh out in the future. You can get a good sense of this by building individual buildings outside to give yourself a little urban area full of alleys and corners and town squares and multiple paths through your colony like a little town. When the AI assaults you'll have all kinds of cover and flanking routes! The AI doesn't quite know how to use this to its advantage just yet (if you find yourself flanked it's only because that AI was on its way to some other static target when it saw one of your troops) but it's still fun to play with your toy soldiers.

I think I saw the developer mention that he wanted to focus more on combat for the next alpha. Hopefully this will mean less tower defense and more variety. For example, melee weapons, or some use for the missiles/uranium that you can buy from merchants that do nothing.

From today's development changelog

RimWorld changelog posted:

March 3
Hydroponics are more fertile and now require power or the plants die. You can also now set what to grow on them.

I guess this means you can't concentrate on hydroponics and expect to survive if you get a flare or eclipse...

Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


flares are the biggest bullshit, and i hope they get removed

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

"You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."


I think a simple battery hardening mod would be an elegant fix to solar flares. Batteries already lose their general use after your first geothermal (or wind if you've got the energy+ mod), this would keep them relevant and planning 24 hours of power usage into your base design keeps things interesting.

Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


I could get on board with that

Felime
Jul 10, 2009

BIG, OL', BUTT FUCKIN' MARNEUS CALGAR


Zigmidge posted:

That's loving hilarious. Also surprising to hear considering how popular it is, normally gamers boil over with rage at the sierra adventures game over effect.


I think the expectation of eventual failure and the non-binaryness of it contributes to it actually being fun. That, and the game is presented that way straight up. "You build your fort. If it is flawed, it will cause problems." Your previous screw up isn't a game over itself, it's a challenge to overcome, and that's a lot easier to accept than "game is over now, play though the exact same thing again to get what you missed."

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



I do like DF, I just find myself wishing it was less buggy and obtuse. And had an interface. And looked nicer.

DF has loads of neat mechanics but the difficulty of accessing them does detract from the fun a bit, which is probably why I clock more time in DF-alikes than DF itself.

If they're changing hydroponics to be like that, it'd be nice if you could transplant dirt, so hydroponics become rapid growth tools, with more risk, while dirt farming is slow but a bit more reliable.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



OwlFancier posted:

I do like DF, I just find myself wishing it was less buggy and obtuse. And had an interface. And looked nicer.

DF has loads of neat mechanics but the difficulty of accessing them does detract from the fun a bit, which is probably why I clock more time in DF-alikes than DF itself.

If they're changing hydroponics to be like that, it'd be nice if you could transplant dirt, so hydroponics become rapid growth tools, with more risk, while dirt farming is slow but a bit more reliable.

DF's problem is that Toady loves adding tons of new poo poo with little thought to functionality. I get that it's a niche and he has every right to do whatever the gently caress he wants because he's not selling the game, but I wish he'd spend more time on functionality than he does on sweat and spit.

I hope Rimworld becomes bigger and more abstract in the long run. The individuality and uniqueness of each character is great and I'm sure this will only become better and better but I prefer macro over micro. The story AI is programmed to keep your colony within certain population limits and if you exceed it, it will do it's best to murder your guys to get you under the limit again.

Adopting some features from Prison Architect could work. I'd love to be able to set shifts so I can make sure everyone eats a hot meal at this hour and have patrols go around at this hour etc. Using prisoners as work gangs instead of recruiting would be fun as well and the social model needs improving so that personalities clash and cause fights. It's well on its way though!

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


The dev did post a screenshot of what he's working on right now for the next alpha build(s).

http://puu.sh/7h9ob.png

wolfman101
Feb 8, 2004

PCXL Fanboy

How does one get mines in this game? I researched everything and didn't find them.

Nut to Butt
Apr 13, 2009

Make your buddy smile!


Dude thought they trivialized defense, so he removed them from the base game

He left them in as a mod, tho, so just enable the mod

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



wolfman101 posted:

How does one get mines in this game? I researched everything and didn't find them.

They took them out of Alpha 2 because they're... well frankly they're horribly unbalanced. You would have to re-enable the mod which adds them in, it's part of the official release.

DeltaOmega
Oct 22, 2007
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE READ THE STUFF ON THE RIGHT!!!

You can still use turrets as improvised blast charges for your underground bases.

Sphrin
Apr 13, 2012


Yeah, I watched a few people play the game and just setting a line of blasting charges between the raider spawn and your base made it possible to take out huge groups of them as they walk past.

Really looking forward to getting this but waiting for more content, I learned my lesson with FTL its much easier to burn out on a game if you overplay it when its just basic systems because each game starts to feel samey a lot quicker.

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Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

"You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."


Funny you say that I think I have three hundred hours of FTL and probably a hundred of this.


The older I get the more I seem to stick with games for a while.

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