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the main point as to why the article was ridiculous was because of the penultimate line: "On top of that, what RimWorld doesn’t model is as important as what it does." from a technical perspective this is unfair even of a finished game, let alone an early access one, and it entirely throws out the previous 3 paragraphs where the author was ostensibly trying to allay the idea that this totally isn't what's being said because it's an early access game and you can't expect it to be entirely smooth-edged. it's the same disingenuous nonsense that political pundits pull when they go "now i'm just asking questions butt--" the article basically ignores the everything about the game itself and the game's history to personally tweak the developer's nose, which is a really classless and uncool move. if you want to call tynan a sexist jerk you can (and you wouldn't be incorrect because he doesn't loving get that relationships aren't a matter of THE DATUZ) but don't wrap up an unfinished game that has seen multiple revisions of tons of poo poo over the course of years in the mixture. that's just a liar's way to ply a point. it was done in the first place because even then it was common knowledge that tynan was a complete blockhead about social issues. note the parting shot about creative control and poo poo at the end of the article - he knew he was being set up because he'd been getting nettled and set up by various people for months, and even then he was too much of a dummy to handle it with grace or have a shred of empathy. he even had the correct answer, which is the one he got to within 6 hours of his first comment. "i don't REALLY know poo poo about human sexuality, so i pulled the biggest data set i had access to and analyzed it. if that isn't right or makes folks uncomfortable whatever, i'm happy to change it, let's just talk about what is correct." but boy howdy could he not muster that because he's a blockhead techbro. there. two paragraphs each on why both sides involved were dumb and why the best thing to come out of all that was "No Man's Bi"
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Apr 24, 2018 23:39
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Well imo that article was about 80% clickbait wrapped around that shiny nugget "lol you can be gay or straight in this game but not bi" anyway 
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Apr 25, 2018 00:02
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Clickbait articles usually suck but that one was funny because it involved the lead designer of a game I like being an idiot, then being publically shamed for being one. Then he learned what he did wrong and corrected it and everyone moved on without feeling the need to write four paragraphs in defense of his actions
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Apr 25, 2018 01:49
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Dude made a game where you can play psychopath bloodlusting cannibals that murder their loved ones and pets for food and leather, it's amazing the game is progressive in literally any way at all.
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Apr 25, 2018 02:07
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Excellent effortpost mr coolguye
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Apr 25, 2018 02:43
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Flesh Forge posted:I've gotten more entertainment value out of Rimworld than practically any other game I've ever spent money on, I can't really think of one that I've enjoyed more that was cheaper. Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Is there a tool that helps with load order and checking for conflicts, like skyrim has? I've got an absurd number of mods installed and reordering the list by hand and making sure things aren't hosed up may be beyond me. If you've ever tried to mod any Bethesda game ever, modding Rimworld will feel like getting the world's best blowjob. The only time load order matters is if something lower in the order has a dependency higher in the order. Generally speaking, this is a fairly rare occurrence unless you are patching something or making a mod of a mod. (It also matters if someone is overwriting base XML files for their mod, but that isn't best-practice anyway and there are way better ways to do what you want I'm looking at you cybernetic storm.) Obviously running two mods that do the same thing is dumb as poo poo though but even with my 180 or so mods my problems are less to do with mod A conflicting with mod B and more to do with a lovely 32-bit Unity engine not being able to read a 100% generated planet with all those mods in on the largest map and not run out of address space. quote:Game devs are lovely chat. Life is much easier when you look at the game and realize what Tynan actually made was the greatest modern implementation of a dwarf-fortress style sandbox framework, and that you make it your own by bolting every remotely interesting mod to it, and maybe make a few of your own. It's like Skyrim but stable, up to and including the sex mods. For example, Psychology makes "No Man's Bi" a horrifically out of date thread title. 
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Apr 25, 2018 03:21
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Psychology actually lets you make it so that most people are bi by fiddling with the settings.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:14
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On this barren planet, it's my way or the bi-way.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:40
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Mental note; when sending pawns out to grab dead wildlife during toxic fallout, don't priority queue multiple hauls on the far side of the map for a single hauler. The resulting mental break is very inconvenient.
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Apr 25, 2018 05:05
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Shirec posted:I think the creator of Rimworld is the type that doesn't believe in sales and has said there will never be one? Not 100% on that There's a chance you're thinking of the Factorio guy who has absolutely 100% said that but I think "both" is the most likely answer here.
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Apr 25, 2018 05:22
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Tynan has definitely said something to the effect that "i priced this good at x value before, and it has only grown in content, and therefore value, since then. However could i sanely justify essentially giving it away to you for lesser value than i am legitimately owed?" Like i said earlier, fun guy, and as others have said, one that does not understand economics.
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Apr 25, 2018 06:31
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Rimworld is one of the best games I'm never going to buy.
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Apr 25, 2018 06:51
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McGiggins posted:Tynan has definitely said something to the effect that "i priced this good at x value before, and it has only grown in content, and therefore value, since then. However could i sanely justify essentially giving it away to you for lesser value than i am legitimately owed?" i'm willing to accept this because honestly it seems to me (based on a whopping sample size of 3) that the only people who make games like this are the ones who don't understand economics
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Apr 25, 2018 07:42
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:i'm willing to accept this because honestly it seems to me (based on a whopping sample size of 3) that the only people who make games like this are the ones who don't understand economics Rimworld mobile: Now with more microtransactions!
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Apr 25, 2018 08:48
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In defense of the Rimworld/Factorio model, both have sold over a million copies at full price which is an absurd success for an indie title and equates to quite a lot of money for their small dev teams. They could probably make even more if they used sales to their advantage but I can't really fault them for adopting a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality for their sales model. Tynan almost assuredly has enough cash to retire and never work again at this point if he chose to, so why mess with it?
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Apr 25, 2018 10:02
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Becuase he could get MORE money by tapping into that lucrative sale money? At this point he has to be nearing market saturation of the people willing to pay full price, and the smart thing to do after saturation is to try to suck the cash out of whomecer is left by making a hugeass sale and making an easy 40k plus in a weeked for literally no effort at all on your part other than unbending your creaky libertarian spine. I'm pretty sure i remember reading some dev's talking about how they've made more money from steam sales than they ever did during their entire full price release period.
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Apr 25, 2018 10:54
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Lunethex posted:On this barren planet, it's my way or the bi-way. 
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Apr 25, 2018 12:36
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Coming from the world of grognard games, no, he absolutely can sell it for full price forever and with a niche dedicated audience willing to pay that price it's not even a bad decision.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:08
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Yeah, I reluctantly agree with that. Rimworld's marketing problem is not the price, it's the graphics. Any time I tell someone about Rimworld in person, they are riveted, until they start asking questions about what the game looks like. I think too many people still think graphics = gameplay, and have a hard time making the leap. Nevermind that I feel as immersed in this game when I'm playing it, as Rust, or Fallout.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:36
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I think the graphics thing is less a pretty=fun conflation and more an aesthetic preference. I've been playing ASCII roguelikes since forever and I much prefer to play Dwarf Fortress without a tileset, but my husband can only enjoy playing with a tileset because he can't look at a bunch of letters scooting around the screen and think "these are my dwarves and I love them" even if he knows what all the glyphs represent. What I find interesting about that is that he's a professional artist, while I'm a bit more of a writer and can't create art for poo poo. I suspect that some folks are just more visually-oriented and need a certain degree of visual stimulation to fully enjoy a game, and it's always kind of annoyed me to see the "more graphics = more better" thing because I don't think anyone actually thinks that. It's just aesthetics; people are obviously going to enjoy a game a little more if they enjoy looking at it, and I suspect that element of a game's enjoyability is simply weighted more heavily for some than for others.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:48
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Definitely! Though I also think imagination enters into it a good deal. I'm a visual artist, but with a deep interest in how things work. Visual help can be nice, but it's not required for immersion in my case, I think gameplay is far more important. But it would be silly to ignore the importance of visuals. Even with lower graphics, a distinct visual style goes a long way. I can't shake the feeling that, to someone who has never heard anything about it, Rimworld would seem like some crappy generic game, just from the impression of the visual style.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:09
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I thought I looked like a Prison Architect rip-off when I first saw it
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Apr 25, 2018 22:54
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been saying this since day 1. better graphics would move hundreds of thousands of copies of this game, and at a higher price point, too
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Apr 25, 2018 23:14
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Farecoal posted:I thought I looked like a Prison Architect rip-off when I first saw it Didn't it initially use PA sprites? Or is that something else I'm thinking of?
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Apr 25, 2018 23:28
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It still looks very visually similar
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Apr 25, 2018 23:48
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As far as I know it never actually used any Prison Architect assets, they just have a very similar visual style.
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Apr 26, 2018 00:13
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I think it was done by the same artist? I know the resemblance is on purpose and the PA people are apparently fine with it. I feel like it probably would have helped to have a more distinct visual style but I guess he wanted something simple and PA's look worked for that.
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Apr 26, 2018 00:18
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Could be something else I'm thinking of then, I'm sure I remember one game with this art style using actual PA assets (with their blessing IIRC) very early on while they got their own art sorted out. But I might be making that up wholesale too!
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Apr 26, 2018 00:29
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IMO the main advantage of steam sales is that it makes games so noticeable when they're on the front page of steam. Rimworld is a weird game and people decide to buy it based off of either seeing letsplays or hearing about it from friends. besides, he put 5 years into the game (and legit made something pretty incredible with about a billion hours of replay value and unlimited mod support), 30 bucks is entirely reasonable. Afaik it is the defining entry in the genre that is actually playable by people who don't want to go down the dwarf fortress rabbithole.
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Apr 26, 2018 00:29
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Ms Adequate posted:Could be something else I'm thinking of then, I'm sure I remember one game with this art style using actual PA assets (with their blessing IIRC) very early on while they got their own art sorted out. But I might be making that up wholesale too! Iirc the prison architect stuff is a fairly popular character pack they licensed for the game.
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Apr 26, 2018 01:55
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The art has never bothered me one drat bit. It's a top down "micromanage computer people" game and the farthest I take the appearance is to throw in the popular pack of hair designs because they're cute and they're what you can see on little portraits that are smaller than a postage stamp on a 20 inch monitor, nothing else about the art has ever felt unappealing to me. IMO it's a plus that the graphics are as simple as they are, it means modders with no real art skills (like me) can produce an asset that looks OK and isn't too out of place with the vanilla content.
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Apr 26, 2018 02:40
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Flesh Forge posted:The art has never bothered me one drat bit. It's a top down "micromanage computer people" game and the farthest I take the appearance is to throw in the popular pack of hair designs because they're cute and they're what you can see on little portraits that are smaller than a postage stamp on a 20 inch monitor, nothing else about the art has ever felt unappealing to me. IMO it's a plus that the graphics are as simple as they are, it means modders with no real art skills (like me) can produce an asset that looks OK and isn't too out of place with the vanilla content. I'd argue this is part of what makes modding Rimworld so accessible. You don't have to have a deep knowledge of 3D design, or even programming, to get started adding and fiddling with Rimworld. While flashier graphics might help sell to the graphics = gameplay people, it would slowly choke off the ease of access to modding, and thus Rimworld's greatest asset. Putting Rimworld on a 10% off sale at the 1.0 release, with the overwhelmingly positive reviews and personal stories on the Steam page would literally print money.
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Apr 26, 2018 02:52
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Ms Adequate posted:Could be something else I'm thinking of then, I'm sure I remember one game with this art style using actual PA assets (with their blessing IIRC) very early on while they got their own art sorted out. But I might be making that up wholesale too! Rimworld did have the blessing of the PA artist but it never actually copied assets, just looked extremely similar. Probably is what you're thinking of though because I don't know of any other PA styled game. It's covered in the original Kickstarter FAQ: quote:It looks a lot like Prison Architect. What's up with that? The original Kickstarter is kind of a trip to read now.
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Apr 26, 2018 03:38
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The past few weeks have seen a surprisingly large number of good mods added to the Steam Workshop. Pharmacist is another of Fluffy's really helpful colony management mods, which lets you manage medicine use for different types of doctoring. Room Sense is a souped up room info layout. RimStory logs all the important things that have happened in your colony RimQuest gives caravans questgivers that give you things to do on the world map
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Apr 26, 2018 04:21
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Warmachine posted:I'd argue this is part of what makes modding Rimworld so accessible. You don't have to have a deep knowledge of 3D design, or even programming, to get started adding and fiddling with Rimworld. While flashier graphics might help sell to the graphics = gameplay people, it would slowly choke off the ease of access to modding, and thus Rimworld's greatest asset. Putting Rimworld on a 10% off sale at the 1.0 release, with the overwhelmingly positive reviews and personal stories on the Steam page would literally print money. I do have deep knowledge of 3d design but that doesn't mean I can duplicate someone else's super polished art style (or would even want to, for a free mod).
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Apr 26, 2018 04:23
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Doesn't mean no one would. There's lots of artist in the Rimworld modding community.
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Apr 26, 2018 05:40
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Ya but there's less artists than there is.. uh, nonartists? A shitton of mods use graphical elements that would be hella poo poo compared to offical art were it more arty, and the art of super talented modders. The graphical integrity of the game, interacting with the graphics output by the modders is maintained by keeping it deliberately simple. If it were super swank and swaggy art, then some modders would be able to make visual content equal to it, and the majority wouldn't. The game looks vetter overall because it is equally simple, and not a variegated hellhole of mismatching artstyles and qualitly levels.
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Apr 26, 2018 06:41
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Gadzuko posted:Rimworld did have the blessing of the PA artist but it never actually copied assets, just looked extremely similar. Probably is what you're thinking of though because I don't know of any other PA styled game. It's covered in the original Kickstarter FAQ: IIRC they scrapped plans to update it because everyone likes how they fit in with the rest of the art styles of the gane
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Apr 26, 2018 06:43
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Tynan tried a bunch of different art styles with an artist he brought in but couldn't find one that was as communicative, so he decided to stick with what we've got now.
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Apr 26, 2018 06:48
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I love the art style and would be disappointed to see it change. Clean, simple lines and easy to see the outer gear they have at a glance without zooming in.
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Apr 26, 2018 15:29
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