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Kevin Smith just kinda bums me out, I mean, good on him for making the movies he wants to make and all that but it's just a bummer that he has absolutely no interest in growing as an artist.
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Dec 31, 2013 20:31
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Kevin Smith is one of those things you think is awesome as a teenager and eventually outgrow. Kevin Smith is the Korn of directors.
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Dec 31, 2013 21:23
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My favorite Kevin Smith experience is that a few weeks after I saw Red State, he flipped a poo poo that it wasn't nominated for any awards from some award show, I think the Independent Spirit Awards? Then he had a complete loving meltdown on Twitter, so I tweeted at him and called him a manchild. He tried to put me on blast and retaliated that he was a "successful manchild," expecting his Twitter following army to lash out at me. I got all of zero responses.
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Dec 31, 2013 22:59
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He did a pilot for a show called Manchild and it was actually pretty funny.
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Dec 31, 2013 23:01
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I don't care for his movies, but I like him on his Hollywood Babble-on podcast and his "Evening with" shows. Despite his immaturity, he does seem like a genuinely affable guy. I wish he would stop wearing those god drat jorts and giant jerseys though. If he's so uncomfortable with his weight (which is why he wears those retarded outfits) hire a dietitian and a personal trainer, it's not like he doesn't have the money.
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Dec 31, 2013 23:16
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Consider me one of the people who liked some of his movies when I was younger (i.e., Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back and Dogma), but who kind of outgrew them. For what it's worth, I think Kevin Smith is a pretty good interviewer. Fatman on Batman is one of my favorite podcasts, and Smith does a good job of getting good guests and engaging them. He rarely comes across as self-absorbed or petulant, and he makes for a good interviewer on Batman because you can tell he really, really loves the character.
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Jan 1, 2014 00:06
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I do not know if Kevin Smith is religous or not and what level of irony Dogma exists on.
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Jan 1, 2014 00:18
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Hbomberguy posted:I do not know if Kevin Smith is religous or not and what level of irony Dogma exists on. He grew up in a Catholic home, which probably explains his crippling insecurities.
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Jan 1, 2014 00:25
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Wendell posted:What did you ask him about Clerks 2? The Lord of the Rings vs Star Wars scene and why he put it in? The whole thing didn't fit his movies at all.
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Jan 1, 2014 01:16
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Hbomberguy posted:I do not know if Kevin Smith is religous or not and what level of irony Dogma exists on. He still identifies as Catholic, and seems to have a pretty good sense of humor about it.
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Jan 1, 2014 01:28
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I think Clerks 1 and Clerks 2 are both fantastic movies. Zak and Miri was predictable, but overall decent (if you can use that word to describe the movie...). Dogma kinda irks me a little because to me it feels like he's trying to justify his faith the whole time. All the conversations with Chris Rock could almost be summarised with: "This is why it's okay to be a Christian!". Still an entertaining movie though. Chasing Amy I couldn't stand. I just couldn't believe any of the characters or get sucked into it.
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Jan 1, 2014 02:08
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Hedenius posted:I like Clerks. I haven't seen it in a long time but the amateurish nature of it all was rather charming and it was quite funny. Clerks II was just embarrassing. It's like Smith hadn't learned anything in 12 years. I never had a problem with Smith except for that stupid show on AMC, the Superman Lives story still makes me laugh and shake my head. Plus I always wondered why that strip mall in my town had Christmas/winter decorations out in February until I saw Zack and Miri, which I thought was okay for what it was.
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Jan 1, 2014 02:21
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Clerks 2 is easily one of the shittiest movies I've ever seen. There's no point to it, nothing tying it all together, it's just a collection of scenes in the course of a day. It's just like Clerks, except the original had an excuse for being a dumb lovely amateur movie.
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Jan 1, 2014 02:51
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Mu Zeta posted:He did a pilot for a show called Manchild and it was actually pretty funny. Didn't he do the pilot for Reaper? I thought that show was pretty rad.
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Jan 1, 2014 03:55
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Kevin Smith is a really interesting piece of flotsam left over from the independent film boom of the 90's. Mirimax were onto something when they cottoned onto the idea of buying and promoting cheaply made films that at worst would return on the home video market. Other companies that worked on similar methods included New Line and to a degree Coloumbia with supporting Robert Rodriguez's El Mariachi and Desperado. Rodriguez and Tarentino are arguably the biggest success story with Reservoir Dogs and Desperado setting the bar for a rough and ready, but slick style of film-making that generally defined the indy boom of the 90's. The flipside would be Troy Duffy who had Boondock Saints optioned by Mirimax but they withdrew. Only for the film to limp into production and become a cult direct to video hit. It's clear Smith got stuck in a mental rut when it came to expanding beyond no budget films like Clerks. Mallrats's shittyness was a result of Smith agreeing to studio demands just because they would fund his films. Chasing Amy is to some degree his biggest attempt to be mature, but it's still pretty sophomoric in it's nature. Dogma almost works, but again suffers from being too clever and mkaing "shocking revelations" you'd get from any church going teen who wants to rebel against Sunday School. Red State was likely an attempt to make lighting strike twice by picking up on the given controversy if you dare annoyed the Westboro Baptist Church. But Dogma marks a turning point as by that time Smith was beginning to struggle against a new breed of critics : The Internet. I suppose it's why he chose Jay and Silent Bob as his next film as in a way it was a way of acknowledging his fanbase and a way of convincing investors there was a new audience out there. I think he's one of the first directors to really connect to his audience on such a level - as mixed as the results may be. But it's pretty clear this was his high water mark as everything from Jersey Girl really has been a stinker. Zack and Miri was no doubt an attempt to be Chasing Amy 2.0, but with an unintentional moment of self-awareness in a scene where they're cutting the porno and remark that despite the first two acts working out well, the ending totally fails to have any substance and is a knock off Apatow film. Red State was his attempt to be truly indy completely backfire as he managed to set fire to every bridge with his distribution rant and seemed not to realize that his reputation over the years had waned. Red State is his first film not to make a profit. It's clear he has little to say from being a filmmaker as he thinks being controversial is what makes you an indie director. Consequently he's corralled himself into a creative corner where he's fallen into a weed induced reactive pattern of "try and make something meaningful, if that fails goes back to Clerks".
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Jan 1, 2014 04:31
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achillesforever6 posted:I honestly like Clerks the animated series out of the 3. That show unfortunately got pretty screwed over iirc. For me it falls into the same category as other animated shows from the early 2000s that got canceled after only a few episodes like Mission Hill and The Oblongs in that I can watch its few episodes over and over again and never get tired of them.
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Jan 1, 2014 05:31
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LividLiquid posted:Are people seriously criticizing a filmmaker for keeping his good reviews? Do you also think it's dorky for athletes to save their trophies? He saved all articles that mentioned him. He searched the internet for mentions of himself and registered on message boards to argue with people. He only stopped when Zack & Miri was such a massive flop that he had a nervous breakdown, which is also when he started self-medicating his insecurities by getting high all the time. I think my fascination comes from how different he is from the impression everyone used to have of him as an easygoing, down-to-earth guy that didn't take himself too seriously. He's embarrassingly weird. While interviewing Batman voice actor Kevin Conroy, he literally broke into tears when discussing some line of Batman dialogue from a cartoon, talking about how awesome and emotional it was and how it made him cry. I looked the cartoon up on YouTube, and it was just some stilted, predictable line. I felt embarrassed for Conroy in that interview. In other words, the immaturity in his films that used to come off as ironic really is him.
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Jan 1, 2014 06:22
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Toady posted:I think my fascination comes from how different he is from the impression everyone used to have of him as an easygoing, down-to-earth guy that didn't take himself too seriously. He's embarrassingly weird. While interviewing Batman voice actor Kevin Conroy, he literally broke into tears when discussing some line of Batman dialogue from a cartoon, talking about how awesome and emotional it was and how it made him cry. I looked the cartoon up on YouTube, and it was just some stilted, predictable line. I felt embarrassed for Conroy in that interview. That's even funnier when you realize that Kevin Smith, when he got the chance to write a Batman comic, took an awesome dramatic moment that another writer wrote and had Batman piss himself during said dramatic moment.
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Jan 1, 2014 07:15
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Toady posted:He's embarrassingly weird. While interviewing Batman voice actor Kevin Conroy, he literally broke into tears when discussing some line of Batman dialogue from a cartoon, talking about how awesome and emotional it was and how it made him cry. I looked the cartoon up on YouTube, and it was just some stilted, predictable line. I felt embarrassed for Conroy in that interview.
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Jan 1, 2014 09:36
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Yaws posted:I can't stop laughing at the thought of this. Do you have that interview? Fatman on Batman #11: Kevin Smith posted:"You've made me cry with that performance. There is an episode I think was in Justice League with the Royal Flush Gang. You will not remember this but I'll remind you. The Royal Flush Gang is being controlled by a character called Ace who is a little girl, and you're sent in by Amanda Waller to terminate a child who is unmaking the world. This is the only way they can stop what's happening, this kid has to go. But she's like an all powerful kid, like one of those Twilight Zone kids who are too powerful for their own good, and she can read minds and whatnot. And you come in and have this lovely little conversation with her, I might roll tears talking about it, about like...she's like, "You've come here to kill me," and you're like, "Yes," and she's like, "But you won't, I already know that you won't." She's afraid of dying and so you say that you'll sit there with her and the two of you sitting on the swings... (chokes up) The performance behind those words, I've watch that clip a zillion times... That performance made me... (breaks into tears) comfortable with my eventual own death, thats how good of an actor you are. I mean it makes sense that you were trained at Juilliard because you can bring such emotional weight to a loving cartoon!" A grown man cried about this in front of another grown man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHHsdE_oQg&t=116s
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Jan 1, 2014 11:28
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I'm fine with Kevin Smith doing whatever film he wants because it keeps him from doing any more comics. If you're lucky enough to read comics and avoided his work so far do everything you can to keep it that way.
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Jan 1, 2014 15:49
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The Widening Gyre 
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Jan 1, 2014 16:16
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Toady posted:Fatman on Batman #11: Eh I don't really think it's all that weird. People relate to weird things all the time, and Smith explains that it just triggered something about facing his own mortality. I've seen dumb poo poo that's caught me off guard sometimes and felt stupid about it afterwards. It's hardly a big crime.
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Jan 1, 2014 16:19
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Hbomberguy posted:The Widening Gyre Evil That Men Do, for no superheroine shall go unraped!
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Jan 1, 2014 16:34
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Hbomberguy posted:The Widening Gyre Yup, that's the Batman-pees-himself comic.  Also the Joker offering up anal sex after someone busts him out of Arkham. (Is it better or worse than the 'everyone was raped' Spider-Man comic?)
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Jan 1, 2014 16:34
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One of my biggest fears about Batman Vs. Superman is that Kevin Smith is going to try and get involved and influence Affleck's performance or understanding of the character in some way. His Batman comics were embarrassingly bad.
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Jan 1, 2014 17:16
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Dacap posted:One of my biggest fears about Batman Vs. Superman is that Kevin Smith is going to try and get involved and influence Affleck's performance or understanding of the character in some way. His Batman comics were embarrassingly bad. He had an episode of Fatman on Batman dedicated to this where he basically wishes Affleck well but acknowledges they haven't really been in contact for the last few years. I seriously doubt he'll have any pull for Batman vs. Superman whatsoever. As for the crying stuff, it seems like it doesn't take much to make him cry. On the podcast he's also cried when describing scenes from Good Will Hunting and The Dark Knight Rises. I think he just gets emotional easily when it comes to comics and movies that he likes. I've never read his Batman comics and have gotten a vibe that they're not much good, but has anyone read his Green Arrow stuff from the early 2000s? I just blitzed through every episode of Arrow despite not having much of an interest in the character outside of his Justice League Unlimited appearances, and I'm curious to know if they're worth reading.
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Jan 1, 2014 17:43
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The one redeeming part of his run is Ollie as a hobo makes an arrow out of a discarded boot. The books aren't as execrable as his Batman or Spiderman, there's just not much to them to recommend.
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Jan 1, 2014 18:08
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Toady posted:Fatman on Batman #11:
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Jan 1, 2014 19:01
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DrVenkman posted:Eh I don't really think it's all that weird. People relate to weird things all the time, and Smith explains that it just triggered something about facing his own mortality. I've seen dumb poo poo that's caught me off guard sometimes and felt stupid about it afterwards. It's hardly a big crime. I know what you mean, it's like when Sonic died in Princess Elise's arms after all that they'd been through, and his friends were heartbroken, and then she felt his presence in the wind. I choke up every time I think about it. "I wish to cleanse my father's sin, I wish to talk to Sonic once again." L'espoir fait vivre, dear friends.
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Jan 1, 2014 21:43
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Now that Kevin Smith is wrapping up Tusk, he's going back to the SModcast well for other film ideas.Cinema Blend posted:An original screenplay Smith is tackling called Helena Handbag. Similar to Tusk, Smith says the idea behind the story started on a Smodcast episode, and the plot "concerns mankind teaming up with Hell to save existence from extinction at the hands of a Rapturing giant Jesus - which means the budget has to be LOW, because NOBODY'S gonna wanna make that movie." I remember this episode. The movie idea starred Scott Mosier as himself, his soul bonded to the devil, competing in a bareknuckle boxing match with a giant, angry Jesus. This will never happen. I would watch it if it did, though.
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Jan 1, 2014 21:55
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Mr. Maltose posted:Evil That Men Do, for no one shall go unraped! After reading the wiki synopsis, I have made an edit.
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Jan 2, 2014 01:14
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Yaws posted:I can't believe Smith wasn't in that dopey Heckler movie. The second half was tailored for him. Christ that was awful. "OH hey, people that heckle comedians are awful people! Here's a list of comedians that will tell you why.." 2nd Half. "You know who else are just like Hecklers? Critics! Here's Lowtax getting beaten up by Uwe Boll!".
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Jan 2, 2014 01:27
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bartok posted:Kevin Smith is one of those things you think is awesome as a teenager and eventually outgrow. Kevin Smith is the Korn of directors. This is the most apt description of Smith I've heard. Especially as it ties to the 90's. There was this weird auteur lust in the 90's, where there was such a huge popular interest in overtly stylized directors (obviously Tarantino, or Singer, or Chris Nolan, Guy Ritchie, David Fincher, even Shyamalan.) Tons of directors with "unique" voices were given a pedestal, and Smith was one of them...whether he "deserved" it or not. I suspect Smith's poor reputation as overly sensitive or a bad sport probably comes from the fallout of that time period, where his films were more regarded as auteur projects even if they were also immature boner comedies. It's not that Smith's more recent films are that much worse, just that the popular atmosphere is like night and day, and we're less forgiving as an audience. Zack & Miri really solidified my feelings about Kevin Smith as a filmmaker, because although it's not terrible, it's aping Judd Apatow super hard, and not just because of the cast. Clerks and Knocked Up aren't totally dissimilar projects - they're slacker/sex comedies about developmentally arrested men who are totally unequipped for adult relationships. But where Clerks gives you monologues and Silent Bob providing overt exposition about the film's point, Apatow accomplishes this with way more organic and complete character arcs. It's the difference between someone who understands how film narrative works, and someone who doesn't so much.
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Jan 2, 2014 02:31
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Kevin Smith makes movies for people that don't know any better.
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Jan 2, 2014 02:59
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No question Kevin Smith is the director we all liked in high school. I kind of enjoy Clerks and everything else up until Clerks 2 in kind of a nostalgic sense as an odd watch from time to time. It's kind of like having your iPod on shuffle and when it plays a song you liked in high school, at first you roll your eyes and laugh but then you kind of enjoy it a little because it reminds you of a simpler time. Same deal when I'm bored, browsing Netflix and see Mallrats and figure "why the hell not?" and watch it for a bit and kinda smile at all the stuff I'm now taking in as an adult. His current stuff, post-Clerks 2 when he put the Viewaskew-niverse on hold to do more original stuff I watch as objectively as I can but man can you see his man-childness just seep through. Being a man-child can be kind of endearing like Ray Stantz in Ghostbusters or Rowan Atkinson as Mr. Bean but, as Atkinson himself said, when you get a certain age acting like that is really depressing (which is why Mr. Bean is officially retired). Smith has reached that age and watching him just go like that while we've all grown-up is really obnoxious. Zach and Miri was fun even if it blatantly rode Judd Apatow's coattails, Cop Out was atrocious and Red State was intriguing in how un-Smith it was but it fell apart near the end. Now that I think about it; the evolution of adult comedies might have hurt Smith more than he realized (not just that "Hollywood has caught up to me with 40-Year Old Virgin!" like he thought around Zach and Miri). A major theme in today's comedies is the idea that "You're 25 year olds, grow the gently caress up because everyone else is and you don't want to be alone". It's not just Judd Apatow that explored this, even Edgar Wright did so in The Cornetto Trilogy (The World's End being the most relevant to this discussion as the Gary King character is around Kevin Smith's current age). Watching those, then watching Kevin Smith do his thing makes you realize just how disconnected he really is to everything around him. It's like having that friend from high school who keeps calling to "hang out" at odd hours not realizing everyone has jobs and relationships and even family that take priority. Wow, I ranted.
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Jan 2, 2014 03:02
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The immaturity of his early films came off as irony, but it eventually became clear that this is who he really is and how he sees the world.
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Jan 2, 2014 03:28
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Toady posted:The immaturity of his early films came off as irony, but it eventually became clear that this is who he really is and how he sees the world. Reminder that he was originally supposed to play Randall before he realized he couldn't act.
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Jan 2, 2014 05:28
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The legal drama episode of the cartoon Clerks show is the best thing Smith has been involved with. It even beat "Arrested Development" to the 'Judge Reinhold' joke.
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Jan 2, 2014 05:39
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Jay Dub posted:Now that Kevin Smith is wrapping up Tusk, he's going back to the SModcast well for other film ideas. He just posted on Facebook that he's been inspired by Book of Mormon and is writing this as a musical. This cannot be anything but terrible.
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Jan 2, 2014 06:04
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