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Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





Prototypes suck please no more protos.

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



George Zimmer posted:

Just out of curiosity, why do you not like them?
Its a spec that purposefully excludes privateers and has the straightest money = win path in all of major motorsports.

Plus the new energy recovery systems and fuel flow limits to try to keep the "we're developing roadcar tech!!!" myth going are a) dumb and boring and b) going to punish drivers who actually want to drive their racecars, which is just total horseshit. LeMans is going to be a 24 hour fuel conservation stint with the overall win never in question in all likelihood, kill me dead.

Seriously, I think P2 is a better spec in every measurable way and I wish the rest of the manufacturers would move to it like Honda and Mazda have.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


Fag Boy Jim posted:

Didn't GT1 rules require like, one model, and enough cargo space to carry a briefcase (which Toyota got around by saying that you could put one in the fuel tank)


(there was also the question of "evolution" models that sort of killed things- Everyone loves the Sierra RS500, but it absolutely murdered Group A by turning it into a spec Sierra cup)


That's faulty upkeep of the rules more than anything. That's usually what kills homologation when it's included in racing, after a few years they let specials in and it fucks everything.

Mandate a hard and fast rule, like "500 models must be produced for both the American and European markets meeting all road safety standards for a total of 1000 models".

I feel like homologation is a better way to control costs then spec stuff like Indy or NASCAR use. If you want the series to be bleeding edge fast, make the homologation number something dumb, like 10. Want the cars slightly faster than GT cars? Make it something dumb, like 5000.

e- also I wouldn't care if the homologation was just a sideskirt to making factories sell cars to privateers only, the cars making it to the street are irrelevant

Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at Jan 13, 2014 around 22:40

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


Alfa also killed Supertouring by making a road-going model with air dams and spoilers- which turned the series into an aerodynamics arms race with higher costs, and worse racing


the lesson here is that all good touring, GT, and proto rules have a shelf life of like three years before they go to poo poo. Will be interested to see how long TUSC goes, though BOP is probably going to be a loving issue

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


Yeah, you can't let a homologation rule sit for years. Every two or three years you have to tweak the formula.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Thats my ultimate fix for F1. Every 3 years, you gather all the chief designers in a way-too-hot high school gym in the middle of nowhere, and pull the rules randomly out of a hat. Then the designers get 24 hours to hand draw their cars for the next 3 years, and they cant leave the gym or use anything but a calculator.

*rustles in a smelly old NHL hat*
Oookkk... carbureted V16s
*rustle rustle*
9 feet wide
*rustle rustle*
Movable aero pieces
*rustle rustle*
24in wheels... GO

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe




Yes, please.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011

Step 3: I re-examine my personal biases



Lipstick Apathy

Group C rocked before the FIA killed it.

George Zimmer
Jun 28, 2008


Cygni posted:

Its a spec that purposefully excludes privateers and has the straightest money = win path in all of major motorsports.

Plus the new energy recovery systems and fuel flow limits to try to keep the "we're developing roadcar tech!!!" myth going are a) dumb and boring and b) going to punish drivers who actually want to drive their racecars, which is just total horseshit. LeMans is going to be a 24 hour fuel conservation stint with the overall win never in question in all likelihood, kill me dead.

Seriously, I think P2 is a better spec in every measurable way and I wish the rest of the manufacturers would move to it like Honda and Mazda have.

You're right, it is a money race, but that's kinda what makes it cool. The manufacturers pouring in millions to make the most cutting edge sports cars they possibly can has created alot of incredible designs. I also like the whole "marque vs. marque" aspect of it. It's a test of a manufacturer's ability to make a sports car, and a drat good one.

I'm not big on the new tech regs either, but that's more FIA being stupid than an inherent flaw in the P1 class.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

Cygni posted:

Thats my ultimate fix for F1. Every 3 years, you gather all the chief designers in a way-too-hot high school gym in the middle of nowhere, and pull the rules randomly out of a hat. Then the designers get 24 hours to hand draw their cars for the next 3 years, and they cant leave the gym or use anything but a calculator.

*rustles in a smelly old NHL hat*
Oookkk... carbureted V16s
*rustle rustle*
9 feet wide
*rustle rustle*
Movable aero pieces
*rustle rustle*
24in wheels... GO

The best idea in the history of all Something Awful auto racing threads, right here

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





The FIA GT1 rules in 2010 (?) were such an awesome, platonic ideal for like one season. Every make has four cars split on two teams (thus justifying investment and allowing for a "works" and "customer" split too) and if memory serves they were also performance balanced a little bit too. And ideally I think the rules were set for four years, or at least planned to be.

Stability, variety, and equality in balancing the cars. It was what you'd draw up on paper. Shame it didn't survive. Now they've moved on to having GT3 machines be the top spec (right?) and those are about as good, if just a little slower.

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect


VikingSkull posted:

That's faulty upkeep of the rules more than anything. That's usually what kills homologation when it's included in racing, after a few years they let specials in and it fucks everything.

Mandate a hard and fast rule, like "500 models must be produced for both the American and European markets meeting all road safety standards for a total of 1000 models".

I feel like homologation is a better way to control costs then spec stuff like Indy or NASCAR use. If you want the series to be bleeding edge fast, make the homologation number something dumb, like 10. Want the cars slightly faster than GT cars? Make it something dumb, like 5000.

e- also I wouldn't care if the homologation was just a sideskirt to making factories sell cars to privateers only, the cars making it to the street are irrelevant

Man road safety standards are a political black hole but I always loved the 50 off production vehicles for racing.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


harperdc posted:

The FIA GT1 rules in 2010 (?) were such an awesome, platonic ideal for like one season. Every make has four cars split on two teams (thus justifying investment and allowing for a "works" and "customer" split too) and if memory serves they were also performance balanced a little bit too. And ideally I think the rules were set for four years, or at least planned to be.

Stability, variety, and equality in balancing the cars. It was what you'd draw up on paper. Shame it didn't survive. Now they've moved on to having GT3 machines be the top spec (right?) and those are about as good, if just a little slower.

That set of rules was good for about one year before the series went to poo poo. I remember liking it, but the BOP stuff left a funny taste in my mouth. Like, I pretty much dislike BOP in all sportscar racing- if I wanted equal cars, I'd watch Spec Miata, or some poo poo. I suppose I don't mind it in touring cars so much, but GTs and Prototypes being performance-balanced just leaves a funny taste in my mouth.

AceFace905
Feb 27, 2007


harperdc posted:

The FIA GT1 rules in 2010 (?) were such an awesome, platonic ideal for like one season.
That really was the perfect way to do things. Also, I loved it for that bad-rear end track in Argentina

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


VikingSkull posted:

Honestly the first thing I think of when I combine Caesar's Palace and motorsport is broken bones.

Caesar's Palace GP is in contention for the worst F1 circuit of all time.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


Fag Boy Jim posted:

Didn't GT1 rules require like, one model, and enough cargo space to carry a briefcase (which Toyota got around by saying that you could put one in the fuel tank)


(there was also the question of "evolution" models that sort of killed things- Everyone loves the Sierra RS500, but it absolutely murdered Group A by turning it into a spec Sierra cup)

It's very vague. Nissan built 2 R390s, I'm not even sure if they were ever sold to the public. There are 3 road going Longtail McLaren F1s, one GTR, and 5 LMs. The best Homologation car though is the Dauer 962 Lemans.

Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at Jan 14, 2014 around 20:43

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003



FIA GT1 was such a resounding success that the rules changed every year and then they abandoned it when it turned into GT3 sprint...

The homologation rules for early GT1 changed from having to make a handful of cars to only having to produce one, as I remember things, probably between 1996 and 1997. By 1998 we were definitely at the stage of companies making a single 'road car' that was basically hopeless on the road and which would never leave the company archive (looking at you, Toyota TS020, Porsche 911 GT1 evo, and so on).

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


That's on the sanctioning body, though. It's like Communism, in theory it's awesome but then idiots implement it.

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003



I tend to agree with Fag Boy Jim about balance of perfomance but I look at how well it's working for GT3 and the fact that you can enter a car into national or international races with a multitude of organizers all of whom can refer to a BOP table but don't have to take any flak for doing the actual balancing and I wonder.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Some Dakar spoilers if you are behind:

link

gently caress X Raid forever. They are consistently the worst whiners, sponsor poachers, etc. 3 days left, what a joke.

UnionCarbide
Apr 17, 2005

D:

Some of the stages at Rally Monte Carlo are loving terrifying. Here's Meeke/Nagle on SS03:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vclbcO8ncEg

poo poo gets real around 6:00 when it goes from bog standard wet tarmac to a nightmare of frozen rain, ice, and slushy snow.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





Cygni posted:

Some Dakar spoilers if you are behind:

link

gently caress X Raid forever. They are consistently the worst whiners, sponsor poachers, etc. 3 days left, what a joke.

Wow. I know Dakar is dangerous but literally telling your team to give up when they're only 2 minutes behind is insane.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

Roma got a puncture on stage 12, so now Peterhansel is leading by 26 seconds. The last stage is tomorrow.

Team orders or not, tomorrow is going to be miiiiiiiiiiiiiiighty interesting.

BMB5150
Oct 24, 2010

2018 Indianapolis 500 Winner



Entry list for Rolex 24 is at 67, Nissan bailed to get a mid season thing going otherwise we would've had 68 cars.

Anyways not surprised Hinch is in the Mazda but don't expect them to really compete. Kind of sad McNish isn't in the Starworks for a one last try at Daytona. But oh well.

http://media.racer.com/documents/60...tters_14836.pdf

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011

Step 3: I re-examine my personal biases



Lipstick Apathy

Not every day you can say you have CART, IRL, Formula 1, V8 Supercars, NASCAR, Bathurst and Le Mans race winners in the same field.

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.


LordPants posted:

Not every day you can say you have CART, IRL, Formula 1, V8 Supercars, NASCAR, Bathurst and Le Mans race winners in the same field.
Don't forget a certain three times WTCC Champion is in there too.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011

Step 3: I re-examine my personal biases



Lipstick Apathy

Pablo Bluth posted:

Don't forget a certain three times WTCC Champion is in there too.

How did I forget Andy Priaulx

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.


Nobody remembers the WTCC.

ellspurs
Sep 12, 2007
Kappa :o

This is all I think of when someone mentions WTCC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2nPhRoctYQ

Note: you may wish to mute the sound.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



I cant believe the finish of Dakar somehow got even WORSE than the bullshit from a few days ago...

CAT INTERCEPTOR
Nov 9, 2004

MY WOLRD IS FIRE AND GO TEAM VENTURE

UnionCarbide posted:

Some of the stages at Rally Monte Carlo are loving terrifying. Here's Meeke/Nagle on SS03:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vclbcO8ncEg

poo poo gets real around 6:00 when it goes from bog standard wet tarmac to a nightmare of frozen rain, ice, and slushy snow.

That's one of the best incars I have ever seen.

BMB5150
Oct 24, 2010

2018 Indianapolis 500 Winner



Alex Zanardi thanks to that DTM test over a year ago is getting that itch again to race. Not in Indycar but in the Blancpain Series in a Z4 GT3.

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.c...ckpit-for-2014/

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

BMB5150 posted:

Alex Zanardi thanks to that DTM test over a year ago is getting that itch again to race. Not in Indycar but in the Blancpain Series in a Z4 GT3.

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.c...ckpit-for-2014/

I think he'll definitely have a leg up on the competition this time around

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect


BMB5150 posted:

Alex Zanardi thanks to that DTM test over a year ago is getting that itch again to race. Not in Indycar but in the Blancpain Series in a Z4 GT3.

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.c...ckpit-for-2014/

Does anyone drive with throttle controls on the wheel in single seaters? I'd imagine it'd be pretty hard to jam all that poo poo in there unless you had a big budget.

IceAgeComing
Jan 29, 2013

pretty fucking embarrassing to watch

He was able to drive a ChampCar in 2003 at the Eurospeedway and test a BMW Sauber in 2006, and I'm guessing that if there was a problem, they wouldn't have let him do that...

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3kXXtJKKPE - first 10 minutes or so)

I've always thought the biggest problem with someone with disabilities with Zanardi and single seaters would be making sure that they could safely get out of the car, but that must have been considered if they let him drive them at speed - apparently, his speeds running practice laps the day before would have been good for fifth on the grid, so he was certainly gunning it!t

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


As far as I know, the only racing organization that mandates a specific exit time from a burning car is the SCTA at Bonneville, etc. Is there any others out there that specify you have to get out of a car unassisted in a certain amount of time or else you aren't cleared to race?

AceFace905
Feb 27, 2007


VikingSkull posted:

As far as I know, the only racing organization that mandates a specific exit time from a burning car is the SCTA at Bonneville, etc. Is there any others out there that specify you have to get out of a car unassisted in a certain amount of time or else you aren't cleared to race?
F1 I believe requires you be able to get out of the car in 10 seconds unassisted.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





It's probably the weight and added complexity of those devices that kept him away. It's easier to package and hide the weight in a touring car or GT car versus a single-seater.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



IndyCars also don't have power steering, which can be pretty wild on the bumpy streets, and have some serious g-loads on the high banks. Your hand slipping on the wheel a bit and getting fatigued is a much bigger deal when your brakes are attached to it. Sounds more stressful/difficult than worth it.

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



I AM CYGNI, CRUSHER OF DREAMS

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