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Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The future of crustacean-based warfare


LornMarkus posted:

Actually the names are drawn from there but the big deal is the difference in use: Callers are old style summoners while the Summoner class works like Yuna from FFX, where they're completely replaced on combat by their summon rather than just it being a much more grand spell.

Interesting. They must have taken some of these from FF5 at least though (which didn't have Viking/Pirate, but did have Berserker), and that one didn't have an English translation either. To wit, the Geomancer, Magic Knight, Chemist and Mediator don't appear in FF4 or FF6 if I recall correctly. Several of the others (e.g. Paladin, Engineer and Gambler) are of course directly from characters from one of those two.

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That Old Tree
Jun 23, 2012

nah




I remember I was in the height of my Rolemaster devotion, I loved FF, and even then I thought the major FF TRPG going around was a ridiculous mess.

LornMarkus
Nov 8, 2011



Hyper Crab Tank posted:

Interesting. They must have taken some of these from FF5 at least though (which didn't have Viking/Pirate, but did have Berserker), and that one didn't have an English translation either. To wit, the Geomancer, Magic Knight, Chemist and Mediator don't appear in FF4 or FF6 if I recall correctly. Several of the others (e.g. Paladin, Engineer and Gambler) are of course directly from characters from one of those two.

Some of them are actually also mergers of things, like the Knight which has a combination of skills from the Tactics Knight and the moves General Leo had for that short bit you got to use him in VI.

Otherkinsey Scale
Jul 17, 2012

Just a little bit of sunshine!


LornMarkus posted:

Some of them are actually also mergers of things, like the Knight which has a combination of skills from the Tactics Knight and the moves General Leo had for that short bit you got to use him in VI.

In contrast to the second edition, where they just had a class called "General" that was 60+ levels worth of abilities out of that one "Shock" command, somehow.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

Scrap Dragon posted:

Was that the one by Dust? Because I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but it certainly seems less janky...

Yep. It has jank (Destiny points need to be re-jiggered or your party hordes them and never does anything cool, some classes need a bit of retooling) but it for sure is miles better than what else there is.

Tsilkani
Jul 28, 2013



Doresh posted:

Jovian Chronicles Second Edition RPG Player's Handbook

So, I've found my stack of JC 1st Edition.



What can I say, I like mecha.

What sounds good to you guys?

  • Companion: Additional World info, extra character and tactical (vehicle) rules, and the GURPS-esque Vehicle Engineering rules. (Holy gently caress they're mathy.)
  • Mechanical Catalogs, 1&2: Vehicles and mecha. 1 is military, 2 is civilian, for the most part.
  • The Chaos Principle: The only published adventure, as far as I know.
  • GM Guide: Self-explanatory.
  • Ships of the Fleet, Vol I-IV: In-depth on spaceships. 2 are Jovian, 1 CEGA, 1 Venusian.
  • Spacer's Guide: Day-to-day setting info. They detail Spacer's Runic in here!
  • Spacer's Equipment Guide: Gear book.
  • Blue Sourcebooks: Each covers a different nation. Mercury, Venus, Earth/CEGA, Earth/Non-CEGA, Cislunar Space, Mars, Nomads, Jupiter. They also have a Solapol sourcebook, for all your space cop needs. (I don't have all of these in print, but I do have digital editions.)

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Doresh posted:

Did either MiniSix or Breachworld revert to Star Wars d6 standards where you add your entire physical attribute to melee damage, instead of only half of that like in d6 Space ? They did that to avoid situations like this o_O

D6 Space and its sisters actually had a way out of that trench: the optional hit point rules. With those, your Might/Strength only increases your hit points, not your soak, making it massed fire of weaker attacks much more lethal. Minions might become less likely to be one-shotted, but you can always adjust their hit points accordingly.

This was from a couple pages back, but I don't think it got answered. Looking at my copy of Mini Six:

* for most non-mechanical weapon attacks, you do use your entire physical attribute for damage. If you have 3D Might and 4D Axe skill and you're using an axe which is +3D, then you roll 6D for damage

* if it's a mechanical weapon such as a crossbow or rifle or laser pistol, then it's a flat amount of damage to be rolled: a rifle deals 5D damage

* normal damage rules are that your Soak score is [(Might dice * 3) + armor value + other bonuses], and then that's compared to how much damage was dealt. Your damage roll needs to beat the target's Soak score by so much to move the target up through the various wound/damage levels, which is I think was the original unhittable Wookie problem described earlier

* there is an alternative Body points rule: you have Body points equal to [20 + a roll of all your Might dice]. Your Soak score is simply your armor + other bonuses. Your damage roll needs to beat the target's Soak score (which should be much easier since Might dice no longer count), then any remaining damage is simply subtracted from Body points, and getting to 0 BP means death

Apropos of nothing, but the layout of the Mini Six book is really bad. It's like it was more important for them to cut down on page numbers rather than actually explaining things in a way that's easy to follow - if you weren't already familiar with the system, you'd have to put together assumptions and implications across multiple pages.

MartianAgitator
Apr 30, 2003

Damn Earth! Damn her!

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

The only Final Fantasy class I can recall missing from that list would be Viking (a.k.a. Pirate). Given that they dug deep enough to have Black/White Callers (which are from FF3, the Japanese one - well, actually, in that game there's one class that has both black and white versions of summons, but whatever - and if this came out before FF7, then there was no translation of that game into English yet), you'd think that would be in there.

Do they actually have good and evil summons or are they like adult Rydia who can summon and also just cast black magic spells?

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The future of crustacean-based warfare


MartianAgitator posted:

Do they actually have good and evil summons or are they like adult Rydia who can summon and also just cast black magic spells?

In FF3, there are three summoner-type classes. The first you get is the Caller, and basically whenever they use a summon they randomly get either a black spell or a white spell associated with that summon. So Shiva, for instance, randomly either casts Sleep on the enemy party or does ice damage to one enemy. Odin can either cast Reflect on your party, or attack a single random enemy, etc. Later in the game you get the Summoner, which is basically the standard summoner class from the later games. They always get the same effect, and it's always a big, multi-target spell that does loads of damage. At the very end you also get the Sage, which is just dumb and powerful and gets every Black and White spell in the game, plus every Summoner summon.

Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Feb 7, 2015

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Tsilkani posted:

So, I've found my stack of JC 1st Edition.



What can I say, I like mecha.

What sounds good to you guys?

  • Companion: Additional World info, extra character and tactical (vehicle) rules, and the GURPS-esque Vehicle Engineering rules. (Holy gently caress they're mathy.)
  • Mechanical Catalogs, 1&2: Vehicles and mecha. 1 is military, 2 is civilian, for the most part.
  • The Chaos Principle: The only published adventure, as far as I know.
  • GM Guide: Self-explanatory.
  • Ships of the Fleet, Vol I-IV: In-depth on spaceships. 2 are Jovian, 1 CEGA, 1 Venusian.
  • Spacer's Guide: Day-to-day setting info. They detail Spacer's Runic in here!
  • Spacer's Equipment Guide: Gear book.
  • Blue Sourcebooks: Each covers a different nation. Mercury, Venus, Earth/CEGA, Earth/Non-CEGA, Cislunar Space, Mars, Nomads, Jupiter. They also have a Solapol sourcebook, for all your space cop needs. (I don't have all of these in print, but I do have digital editions.)

I'm leaning towards the Companion (to see how the vehicle creation rules have changed since then) and the Spacer's Guide (so I finally know what Spacer's Runic actually is).
If i had to pick only one, I'd go for the Spacer's Guide.

gradenko_2000 posted:

This was from a couple pages back, but I don't think it got answered. Looking at my copy of Mini Six:

* for most non-mechanical weapon attacks, you do use your entire physical attribute for damage. If you have 3D Might and 4D Axe skill and you're using an axe which is +3D, then you roll 6D for damage

* normal damage rules are that your Soak score is [(Might dice * 3) + armor value + other bonuses], and then that's compared to how much damage was dealt. Your damage roll needs to beat the target's Soak score by so much to move the target up through the various wound/damage levels, which is I think was the original unhittable Wookie problem described earlier

* there is an alternative Body points rule: you have Body points equal to [20 + a roll of all your Might dice]. Your Soak score is simply your armor + other bonuses. Your damage roll needs to beat the target's Soak score (which should be much easier since Might dice no longer count), then any remaining damage is simply subtracted from Body points, and getting to 0 BP means death

Apropos of nothing, but the layout of the Mini Six book is really bad. It's like it was more important for them to cut down on page numbers rather than actually explaining things in a way that's easy to follow - if you weren't already familiar with the system, you'd have to put together assumptions and implications across multiple pages.

So they did revert the Strength bonus rules. Weird.

Standard soak score works a lot like in normal d6, except in normal d6, you roll dice instead of taking a sub-average score for simplicity (3 instead ofa d6 is often used for quick averaging in the system).

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

The only Final Fantasy class I can recall missing from that list would be Viking (a.k.a. Pirate). Given that they dug deep enough to have Black/White Callers (which are from FF3, the Japanese one - well, actually, in that game there's one class that has both black and white versions of summons, but whatever - and if this came out before FF7, then there was no translation of that game into English yet), you'd think that would be in there.

I think the Fighter class could be used to represent a Viking. They're the more "brutal" warrior class, with the highest hit die and access to just about every weapon (including axes) and the heaviest armor. Though it's the Swordmaster class who has the Provoke ability the Viking uses in the remakes. As the name suggest, they have no access to axes, but you can fix that with an advantage. Or just ask the GM nicely to swap one of the Fighter abilities for Provoke.

Black/White Callers exist in that form solely so they can do something other than casting a summon spell, as their summoning is not as in-depth as the summoner's

wdarkk posted:

That actually sounds kind of cool. I liked Yuna and how summons worked in FFX.

Just don't pick the Magus Trio as your final summon. Just like in the game, you can only give them vague commands they may or may not follow, forcing you to run down a script and do rolls for all three members.

PurpleXVI posted:

One of the problems with an FF RPG is that the settings are kind of like Dragonlance, each setting, and its components(possibly excepting the FF:Tactics setting), are pretty much made for one story and rarely have the content needed to weave another story out of. The mechanics are, mathematically, a pain in the rear end to replicate with dice and paper, and when they're not a pain in the rear end(and sometimes when they are), they require huge suspensions of disbelief and really treating the thing like a game(see: phoenix down mechanics, abilities that only work in combat, etc.).

Frankly I always found it kind of a weird thing for anyone to make an RPG based on, most FF stuff isn't a deep vault of inspiration that begs for more stories to be told with it.

This reminds me of that one FFX d20 game where they turned every protagonist into a class (sure, they have generic names like "Lancer" or "Black Mage", but that wouldn't stop me from saying "My character has 5 levels in Tidus and 6 levels in Wakka!"). And for some strange reasons, they had prestige classes for the various Blitzball teams.

Scrap Dragon posted:

Was that the one by Dust? Because I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but it certainly seems less janky...

It certainly gives you a lot more freedom, though it has some oddities. You can easily create a character that relies on just one stat for almost everything, and it's a bit weird how the game has a special attack creation system that is only really used for monster attacks and limit breaks.
Still, it's a big improvement.

And is anyone familiar with ZODIAC, the level-based point-buy game that is based more on Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy Tactics than normal Final Fantasy, and is generic enough to be used for other JRPGs? It's the FFRPG I'm most fond of (with Dust's game a close second), though I do admit it's a bit of a hassle to update your various derived attributes after every level-up. Then again, I'm kind of a math freak.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Feb 7, 2015

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable



theironjef posted:

Hopefully someone does a writeup then, since my thing is podcasts.

I am going to transcribe your podcast and print it out, obviously.

ThisIsNoZaku
Apr 22, 2013

Pew Pew Pew!


Green Intern posted:

I am going to transcribe your podcast and print it out, obviously.

Verbatim. with all the filler. Including printing lines over each other when people talk at the same time.

SisterAcacia
Feb 5, 2015


The only FF tabletop game I really remember was one where your weapon type (Sword, Book, Gun, whatever) determined the die type, and the quality of the weapon (Iron Sword, Platinum Sword, Demon Edge, Ultima Weapon) determined how many damage dice you roll. The main thing I remember about it was that the race/class options allow for a Moogle Dark Knight. That's pretty awesome, even if the FF games typically take themselves too seriously for a cutesy character that tries to be emo and gloomy and evil but fails at it. (Obviously it'd work as a side-character in FFX-2.)

I think it was hosted on a Geocities or Angelfire site. Classy stuff, I know.

On another forum I frequent, someone brought up the "How to make FF RPG" question which every forum is legally required to have. I was delighted that someone suggested just taking the "Disgaea d20" thing I made and altering that, but the main issue raised was indeed "Which Final Fantasy? Are bunny-people a race? Which special-not-exactly-human are you using? Okay so there will be Lancers, fine. Is that by taking the Lancer class or the Lancing Spheres, or the Lancer Dress Sphere? Is this the game that is so railroaded it's literally on a train? Which loving game?"

Arguably the most important thing is for the GM to download that loving victory theme onto their phone and play it after every battle. Because that is truly what makes it Final Fantasy.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Why would you make a Disgaea d20? What could possibly have convinced you this was a good idea?

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



I don't think it would even be that hard: D&D (especially 3.5) is already kitchen sink-y enough to support the vast array of weird poo poo Disgaea throws at you. Mostly you just need to take all numerical values and multiply them by x1000. ....And add an extra '0' every 5 levels or so.

SisterAcacia
Feb 5, 2015


It started with "I'm moving back to the state where my friends are, I'll run a game again."

Now, D&D Triple is the game I'm most familiar with, and coincidentally, it's also the game they were most familiar with.

I was really into Disgaea at the time (I still enjoy the games), and realised "This is going to basically be a Disgaea sort of thing in spirit - running about the Hells, beating demons up for their stuff, with demons mostly being some flavour of Irresponsible rather than Evil." D&D and Disgaea are both games about wandering around, beating demons up for disproportionate power and wealth after all.

So I figured I may as well go whole-hog - I adapted some existing classes and races, wrote up some new ones, wrote up a few example Prestige Classes (for Prism Mage and such) while explaining "Look, when you hit level five or so, just tell me if you have an idea for what would be a cool prestige class based on the kind of setting this is, and we can hammer out a custom one". So we ended up with a Nekomata Samurai/Rockstar, a Ghost Knight/Bear-Knight, and an Angel Jester/Flasked Avenger.

I suppose you could say it was less "Here is this fully complete system I am releasing to the public!" and more "Here is the custom stuff for this one game". But I've used it again a few times, and it was considered a success.

LornMarkus
Nov 8, 2011



SisterAcacia posted:

The only FF tabletop game I really remember was one where your weapon type (Sword, Book, Gun, whatever) determined the die type, and the quality of the weapon (Iron Sword, Platinum Sword, Demon Edge, Ultima Weapon) determined how many damage dice you roll. The main thing I remember about it was that the race/class options allow for a Moogle Dark Knight. That's pretty awesome, even if the FF games typically take themselves too seriously for a cutesy character that tries to be emo and gloomy and evil but fails at it. (Obviously it'd work as a side-character in FFX-2.)

I think it was hosted on a Geocities or Angelfire site. Classy stuff, I know.

You're thinking of Returns, yup. Daggers are d6s up to Greatswords at d12. Interestingly, despite being one-handed (and thus dual-wieldable) standard Swords were a d10 and thus the destination for munchkins that wanted the insane starting punch of dual-wielding without losing in the long run on their ability damage.

Also, the mention of that Moogle Dark Knight does remind me of one of the most interesting discussions I saw go on in the games forums: a massive multi-page argument about a guy who wanted to make a Tonberry Paladin of Hatred. For reference, Tonberries are those little green lizard guys in the robes with the kitchen knives and the lanterns that murder the poo poo out of anything they hit. FFXI gave some context to a society for them and it was based around worshipping pain and all that evil sort of stuff. So guy wanted to make a Tonberry Paladin of Hatred, because culturally to the Tonberry devoting yourself to hatred and murder is the noblest of goals. And all kinds of people got insanely pissed off about it, ranting and raving about how he had to be a Dark Knight because good and evil aren't culturally relative, and the fact that Paladins deal a lot of holy damage means their powers can only come from good deities and so forth and so on.

Probably somewhat old hat for people who hung around DnD forums but it was interesting for me to see for the first time there and in that exact context.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



All this talk of adapting video game systems makes me wonder if anyone's ever done a hack for Monster Hunter. D&D4e would be near perfect for it out of the box--combat already revolves around tactical positioning, and there's an entire class of enemies designed to be a challenge for a full party by themselves. All it really needs is a system for called shots and location damage. Though you'd want to restrict it to Martial characters or it becomes a Dragon's Dogma hack instead.

edit: actually, some of the arcane strikers would fit pretty well as bowgun users with some reflavoring.

Rangpur fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Feb 7, 2015

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


A roleplaying system supporting the kind of in-depth monster slaying like Monster Hunter (and to a lesser extend Shadow of the Colossus, seeing how Monster Hunter 4 seems to pick up the "Climb on monsters" idea) would be amazing

Rangpur posted:

I don't think it would even be that hard: D&D (especially 3.5) is already kitchen sink-y enough to support the vast array of weird poo poo Disgaea throws at you. Mostly you just need to take all numerical values and multiply them by x1000. ....And add an extra '0' every 5 levels or so.

It's not a proper Disgaea roleplaying game unless it has full epic-level support all the way to level 9.999 :colbert:

LornMarkus posted:

You're thinking of Returns, yup. Daggers are d6s up to Greatswords at d12. Interestingly, despite being one-handed (and thus dual-wieldable) standard Swords were a d10 and thus the destination for munchkins that wanted the insane starting punch of dual-wielding without losing in the long run on their ability damage.

That's why Ninja are overpowered. They can dual-wield d10 katanas right out the gate without having to pour skill points into the dual-wield skill.

(Yes the game has a skill system with weapon skills increasing your accuracy. Guess what everyone will keep maxed out)

Two-handed weapons really blow a bit in Returner. Their little extra damage is not worth the loss of a shield slot. Legendary-tier weapons can be a bit OP, but that's true for pretty much all weapon types.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Rangpur posted:

All this talk of adapting video game systems makes me wonder if anyone's ever done a hack for Monster Hunter. D&D4e would be near perfect for it out of the box--combat already revolves around tactical positioning, and there's an entire class of enemies designed to be a challenge for a full party by themselves. All it really needs is a system for called shots and location damage. Though you'd want to restrict it to Martial characters or it becomes a Dragon's Dogma hack instead.

edit: actually, some of the arcane strikers would fit pretty well as bowgun users with some reflavoring.

It was brought up a few months ago but there's a goon in the Dungeon World thread that is putting together a skin for MH. He was looking for play testers.

Babe Magnet
Jun 1, 2008


Doresh posted:

It's not a proper Disgaea roleplaying game unless it has full epic-level support all the way to level 9.999 :colbert:

D&D is better, in that you can even get to level 10.

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The future of crustacean-based warfare


LornMarkus posted:

And all kinds of people got insanely pissed off about it, ranting and raving about how he had to be a Dark Knight because good and evil aren't culturally relative, and the fact that Paladins deal a lot of holy damage means their powers can only come from good deities and so forth and so on.

Depending on the setting, they kinda have a point. A lot of RPG settings have this really kind of rigidly defined good/evil dichotomy where you really can be objectively good or evil, and the campaign book is very clear that this is case and which gods are objectively good and whcih are objectively evil. And when you have a class that's defined as (objectively) good in nature, then of course you can't also be evil and be that class. That being said, I much prefer paladins that are just defined as "champions dedicated to some deity" without specifying exactly what that deity is, what it cares about, and what powers it grants. I don't see any problem with a paladin of an evil god that ends up essentially fitting the "dark knight" archetype merely by virtue of those being the domains associated with that god, and thus also the domain of the paladin's powers, but that has to be in a setting that doesn't outright define paladins as a force of good, period.

Doresh posted:

Two-handed weapons really blow a bit in Returner. Their little extra damage is not worth the loss of a shield slot. Legendary-tier weapons can be a bit OP, but that's true for pretty much all weapon types.

Hey, at least it's true to the source material! :v:

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora

Gonna talk about Monster Hunter-like RPGs and not talk about a game obviously inspired by MH. Shameful.
http://tinyurl.com/LastStandCollection

LornMarkus
Nov 8, 2011



Hyper Crab Tank posted:

Depending on the setting, they kinda have a point. A lot of RPG settings have this really kind of rigidly defined good/evil dichotomy where you really can be objectively good or evil, and the campaign book is very clear that this is case and which gods are objectively good and whcih are objectively evil. And when you have a class that's defined as (objectively) good in nature, then of course you can't also be evil and be that class. That being said, I much prefer paladins that are just defined as "champions dedicated to some deity" without specifying exactly what that deity is, what it cares about, and what powers it grants. I don't see any problem with a paladin of an evil god that ends up essentially fitting the "dark knight" archetype merely by virtue of those being the domains associated with that god, and thus also the domain of the paladin's powers, but that has to be in a setting that doesn't outright define paladins as a force of good, period.


Hey, at least it's true to the source material! :v:

Yeah, I don't disagree though I do generally feel it makes for a better experience when you play in something closer to real world morality. Mostly I characterized it like that because it was literally the one guy going, "I think it'd be fun to play this character," and everybody else flipping their poo poo at him.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Lynx Winters posted:

Gonna talk about Monster Hunter-like RPGs and not talk about a game obviously inspired by MH. Shameful.
http://tinyurl.com/LastStandCollection

Hey, that game isn't inspired by Monster Hunter! It's Monster Hunter *AND* EDF.

Emong
May 31, 2011

perpair to be annihilated




With all this talk of Final Fantasy TTRPGS, I'd just like to bring up that I really like Retro Phaze for doing video game fantasy stuff. I'd do a proper write-up on it but I'm way too lazy.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


There's also Super Console, which is probably the silliest of the bunch.

Babe Magnet posted:

D&D is better, in that you can even get to level 10.

Dammit, I forgot. We Germans use commas for decimals and dots to format large integers >_<

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:


I would have had this up earlier this week but then the Star Wars Humble Bundle happened and I've been spending the past week palling around with Darth Bindo. Let's continue.


Skills and Feats
So, the Profession(Military Commander) Skill allows you to issue orders in mass combat. But it's of limited usefulness, because apparently soldiers are stone dumb and don't even know how to move if you can't succeed on a DC20 check, and you can use your BAB+Cha Modifier or your Diplomacy or Intimidate skill with a -5 penalty.

Feats

A new type of feat introduced in here is the Commander Feat which give bonuses to people who view you as your commander. Meaning that they A: Have to follow your orders at all times, if you ever give them an order and they do not follow it you stop being their commander. and B: can only have one commander at a time. So only one person in a party can take these feats and they don't do them any good. They also have incredibly small ranges. Meaning that they only benefit the mass combat group you're standing in.


Balanced Command(Reflex +3), Determined Command(Will +3), and Steadfast Command(Fort +3) give your allies within 10 feet a +1 morale bonus on reflex, will, and fortitude saves.

Beloved Commander gives your allies within 30 feet a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls a +1 bonus on damage rolls and a +2 bonus on will saves for 1+cha rounds whenever they see you incapacitated.

Courageous Command gives your allies within 20 feet a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.

Ruthless Command(Cha 13) gives your allies with 5 feet a +1 morale bonus on damage rolls with melee weapons. Note: according to the mass combat rules the 5 foot radius is actually too small to affect anyone.


Bull's-Eye:(BAB +4) Bull's-Eye gives you a single die of ranged sneak attack with one ranged weapon in which you are proficient. Meaning it has to be within 30 feet and denied it's dexterity bonus. That's not really worth a feat.

Control Magic:(Ability to cast Dispel Magic) When you counter a spell that summons creatures with Dispel or Greater Dispel Magic you may instead gain control over the creature. Devour Magic gives you 1d4 temp hit points when you dispel an active spell. Thankfully they had the foresight to make this spells not work with wands and scrolls.

Drop Cut:(Tumble 8 ranks, BAB+3) lets you do 'falling charges' by landing on top of a creature you deal double damage and an additional 1d6 damage for every square fallen over 10. However, you must take full damage from the fall, you can't tumble to lower it, and you can't use this feet with falls of over 100 feet because 'it takes too long to reach the ground'. No I have no idea how that works.

Evasive Maneuvers:(Ride 8, Mounted Combat) Lets you gain a dodge bonus to AC if you do nothing but move(but not run) in a round on a flying mount. This is apparently instead of fighting defensively.

Exotic Weapons Proficiency: Siege Weapons(BAB +2) is self explanatory. Without it you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls.

Expert Flyer:(Ride 10, Mounted Combat) lets you spend a standard action to improve your mount's maneuverability by one class to a maximum of "good".

Fan of Knives:(Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, BAB+6) as a full-round action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity you can throw one throwing weapon at each enemy within one range increment. All weapons thrown must be of the same type (javelins are given as an example) and all attacks take a -2 penalty, you know, just in case you thought that this feat was even marginally worthwhile.

Find Weak Point: Lets siege weapons you operate ignore 10 points of hardness.

Improved Mounted Archery:(Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat) reduces the penalty from using ranged weapons while your mount is double moving/running to 0/-2.

Howl of Terror:(BAB+4) As a move action you can howl, forcing opponents within 30 feet to make a Will Save(DC 15+Cha) or be shaken for 1+cha rounds. You can use this once a day per four character levels.

Initiate Self Destruct Sequence:(Craft Tech 6, Disable Device 6) If you have full, uninterrupted access to a vehicle's engine for 1d6 minutes you can make a DC 30 minus Malfunction Rating Disable Device Check, if you succeed the device explodes 'horrendously' after a length of time determined by your degree of success. 0-5 is "right now", 6-10 is 1d6 rounds. 11-15 is 1d6 minutes. 16-20 is 1d6X10 minutes. and 20+ is 'your choice'. So, yeah, this feat is loving terrible for various reasons. primarily amongst them that you need to succeed at a dc45 check at minimum to be able to choose when it explodes. If you roll too well but not well enough you could be waiting an hour for your magnificent plan to occur, and if you succeed but just barely congratulations you are now eating an explosion. The damage for the explosions is really anemic too. 5d6 damage + 2d6 for each size category above large. Meaning that if by some wonder of wonders you do succeed you get to be out damaged by a fireball.

Plummet Attack:(Ride 10, Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge) if you charge against a target 45 degrees below you while on a flying mount you deal 3x damage, 4x with a lance.

Ranged Cleave:(Rapid Shot) Unlike Arrow cleave, this one is probably actually useful. If you down someone with a ranged attack you can make another ranged attack against someone in the same range increment with the same weapon, at the same BAB that downed the previous creature.

Ranged Disarm:(Dex 13, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot) You can (maybe) disarm from a distance. Except probably not, because the feat is worded badly. See, you don't attack their arm, or the hand holding the weapon, you attempt to knock the weapon out of their hands by shooting it with your gun or arrow. Arrows are size Tiny, bullets are Diminutive or Fine (probably), and they get a +4 bonus for each different in size category between their weapon and yours, and an additional +4 bonus if they're wielding it in 2 hands.

Ranged Sunder:(Str 13, far shot) You can deal full damage to objects with ranged weapons, though they still get their hardness bonus.

Ricochet Shot:(Dex 13, Trick Shot, BAB +4) If you hit a target with a thrown bludgeoning or slashing weapon. you can make a second attack against a target within 5 feet of the original target by making another attack at a -4 penalty, and it deals half damage. With a moonglave you can ricochet again to a 3rd target with another -4 penalty and deal 1/4th damage. Not really worthwhile except for Ricochet Whirlwind:(Ricochet Shot BAB+8) You can now make a bounce equal to 1+Dex Mod targets, and each attack takes at maximum a -4 penalty on attacks and deals a flat half damage of a regular attack. You can also just bounce it back and forth between two creatures. Moonglave just gives you 1 extra bounce.

Siege Cleave:(EWP:Siege Weapons, BAB+3) When using a siege weapon against creatures(Not buildings) you can send it careening through the enemy ranks. After killing a creature the missile continues onward to hit the creature behind it. Great Siege Cleave( SC, BAB+5) lets you use it an unlimited number of times per round. Giving me this hilarious mental image of a giant boulder smashing through one peasant like wet paper, but then being completely stopped by the second until the person working the catapult figures out how physics work.


Spellbreaker(BAB+8, cannot be able to cast spells of any kind) You can spellbreak. As a full round action, attack a spellcaster with a melee weapon and deal damage as normal. If you deal more than 10 damage you can destroy one of their spell slots of their choice. 10-19 destroys a level 1 slot, 20-29 destroys a level 2 and so on. though I have no idea how you'd even touch anything higher than a level 3 slot unless you're super lucky on a crit(Or have Stand at Death's Door). Feedback(Spellbreaker, BAB+8) deals an extra 1d4 damage per spell level destroyed.

Stand at Death's Door:(Con +15, Cleave, Toughness, BAB+7, 20 or more HP) you deal extra damage with melee attacks equal to 20-current hit points.

Steal Magic:(Able to cast Dispel or Greater Dispel, any 2 metamagic feats)When you dispel a spell you can apply it to yourself instead of dispelling it if you succeed on a DC 15+spell level caster level check. If you fail the check then the spell is somehow retroactively not dispelled and remains on the initial target. Transfer Magic lets you transfer a spell to a target within 5XCL feet.

Taunt: Lets you spend a full round action taunting a target within 30 feet with an intelligence of at least 6. You must also not have more than half concealment and cover. You and the target make opposed charisma checks, and if you succeed the target spends his next turn doing everything in his power to kill you. If you fail he becomes immune to your taunts entirely for one day. Why the gently caress would you ever take this feat.

Vehicle Weapons Expert:(Vehicle Proficiency) You get a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 bonus on damage rolls with any vehicle mounted weapons on vehicles you are proficient in.

Weaken Structure: When using a siege weapon, every 10 damage you deal over an objects hardness lower its hardness permanently by 1

And that's everything that's worth talking about in the book. The next chapter is just a 'where are they now' describing what the various factions were doing during The Frozen Throne, and the chapter after that is all about mass Combat.


There are eighteen pages worth of tables.
I'm not going to subject either of us to that.

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003



Rangpur posted:

All this talk of adapting video game systems makes me wonder if anyone's ever done a hack for Monster Hunter. D&D4e would be near perfect for it out of the box--combat already revolves around tactical positioning, and there's an entire class of enemies designed to be a challenge for a full party by themselves. All it really needs is a system for called shots and location damage. Though you'd want to restrict it to Martial characters or it becomes a Dragon's Dogma hack instead.

I've been of the opinion that GURPS would be a great system for Monster Hunter, because of the crunchy combat and fairly detailed hit location and wounding rules. Called shots, disabling a giant spider one leg at a time, that kind of thing.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN


ForkBanger posted:

Right, where was I?


Oh.

Last time we looked at the not-at-all-convoluted time travel mechanics of Transdimensional TMNT. The obvious follow up is...

A (Time) Wizard Did It

Time Lords! They hang out in the 79th level of Null-Time, where they work together to deal with serious threats to the time stream, threats from outside dimensions, or threats to the 79th.



So the BBC went as far as to trademark the design of old blue police boxes, but they're cool with Eastman and Laird and Palladium throwing around all these Time Lords?

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


Hyper Crab Tank posted:

Depending on the setting, they kinda have a point. A lot of RPG settings have this really kind of rigidly defined good/evil dichotomy where you really can be objectively good or evil, and the campaign book is very clear that this is case and which gods are objectively good and whcih are objectively evil. And when you have a class that's defined as (objectively) good in nature, then of course you can't also be evil and be that class. That being said, I much prefer paladins that are just defined as "champions dedicated to some deity" without specifying exactly what that deity is, what it cares about, and what powers it grants. I don't see any problem with a paladin of an evil god that ends up essentially fitting the "dark knight" archetype merely by virtue of those being the domains associated with that god, and thus also the domain of the paladin's powers, but that has to be in a setting that doesn't outright define paladins as a force of good, period.

It does depend on the setting, but plenty of FF games don't really say or do anything to suggest that access to holy power is limited to good people. I mean, Exdeath in FFV can cast Holy on you in battle, and he's about as far from being good as you can get (he's even weak to Holy himself).

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

kaynorr posted:

I've been of the opinion that GURPS would be a great system for Monster Hunter, because of the crunchy combat and fairly detailed hit location and wounding rules. Called shots, disabling a giant spider one leg at a time, that kind of thing.

GURPS has a line of books actually called Monster Hunter that's based on that theme, although not AFAIK explicitly based on that game

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora

Monster Hunters is based on shows like Buffy and Supernatural and is about hunting vampires/werewolves/zombies. It has basically nothing to do with the Capcom game series.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



That's the one where the default assumption is 400 character points I believe (equivalent to a small superhero).

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Thuryl posted:

It does depend on the setting, but plenty of FF games don't really say or do anything to suggest that access to holy power is limited to good people. I mean, Exdeath in FFV can cast Holy on you in battle, and he's about as far from being good as you can get (he's even weak to Holy himself).

Then you got Kuja who can also cast Holy - and general access to both black and white magic spells. Holy and White Magic is definitely not 'good people only' as a general rule in the FF multi-verse

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Kurieg posted:

And that's everything that's worth talking about in the book. The next chapter is just a 'where are they now' describing what the various factions were doing during The Frozen Throne, and the chapter after that is all about mass Combat.


There are eighteen pages worth of tables.
I'm not going to subject either of us to that.

Wow, I think that's a record when it comes to d20 mass combat addons. I think there are a couple proper tabletop wargames that use fewer tables o_O

I think that's because they use the Cry Havoc rules, which have you create a "Damage dealt based on unit members left and margin of success"-table for every unit.

kaynorr posted:

I've been of the opinion that GURPS would be a great system for Monster Hunter, because of the crunchy combat and fairly detailed hit location and wounding rules. Called shots, disabling a giant spider one leg at a time, that kind of thing.

Hero System could also work. You could probabl come pretty close to emulate the various weapon types, the Bestiary has expanded rules for creature hit locations and climbing on big critters, and there's a lot you can do with those martial maneuvers.
Most likely more crunchy than GURPS, though.

Kurieg posted:

Taunt: Lets you spend a full round action taunting a target within 30 feet with an intelligence of at least 6. You must also not have more than half concealment and cover. You and the target make opposed charisma checks, and if you succeed the target spends his next turn doing everything in his power to kill you. If you fail he becomes immune to your taunts entirely for one day. Why the gently caress would you ever take this feat.

I dunno, I've read several complaints regarding d20 about how tanks don't work because they have no real way of raising their threat/priority/whatever, or really anything that stops the enemies from just rushing past them, eating an AoE and murdering the squishy wizard who's actually dishing out the damage.
And then Pathfinder released a similar feat that apparently nobody uses because it's broken. Weird.

Mind you, this whole problem seems to be largely based around both the players and the GM treating RPG combat very video-gamey, or at least the GM ignoring stuff like the opponents intelligence, morale or general unwillingness to just run past the overmuscled freak wearing a ton of plate armor and wielding a giant sword that's on fire.

Jovian Chronicles Second Edition RPG Player's Handbook


Now it's time to find out how to create our very own Amuros and Chars!

(I'll only go over the OGL stuff if it's weird or funky.)

Chapter 4: Character Creation

This chapter doesn't have the full SilCORE chargen rules, since those ar ein the core rules book. This chapter does however do things differently than in the core rules, to give Jovian Chronicles are more of an anime feeling. There also seem to be some expanded carryover from JC's Mekton days, where your character was either a talented, but inexperienced rookie or a seasoned veteran who will probably get killed off at the halfway point of the campaign.

SilCORE is a point-buy roleplaying game whose chargen uses two separate point pools (one for the 10 attributes, one for skills). Attributes act as a modifier to skill rolls and range from -3 to +3 for humans (with one exception). The attributes are:

  • Agility (AGI): Your dexterity and reflexes
  • Appearance (APP): Your bishounen/waifu power level
  • Build (BLD): Your overall mass and size. This one actually goes from -5 (little child) to +5 for humans (just below 250 kilos).
  • Creativity (CRE): Essentially your mental agility.
  • Fitness (FIT): How tough and muscular you are.
  • Influence (INF): Your raw diplomatic and leadership skill.
  • Knowledge (KNO): Your education and memory.
  • Perception (PER): Your awareness.
  • Psyche (PSY): Are you more like Shinji Ikari or Kamina?
  • Willpower (WIL): How badass you are. This is separate from PSY because even mentally unstable trainwrecks like Shinji don't chicken out all that often.

(Quite a lot to pick from, huh?)

Jovian Chronicles hands out 50 Character and 70 Skill Points, placing it firmly in SilCORE's "Cinematic Game" power level, the highest of the three available. This helps simulating how guys like Amuro Ray can just sit inside a mech and curbstomp enemy grunt pilots who actually had years of training and experience.
Though if you like, you can always downgrade PCs down to Heavy Gear levels of grittiness, or even lower than that.

The first step of JC chargen involves picking a concept, with a couple helpful question to flesh the character out.
The 2nd step involves picking your "race", which in JC means "In what kind of gravitational environment did you grow up?". I'll be noting the nations/places where each race can be found, because the book doesn't really do that for you.

Grounder/Colonist: In places between 0.8 and 1.2 G, you're an ordinary human. This includes Earth (of course), Venus and those big O'Neill Cylinder stations who can create their own gravitation through rotation.

Lightworlder: These guys come from places that have fewer than 0.8 G. This includes the Moon, Mars, Mercury (for those guys who live underground), Titan and those smaller orbital stations that can't quite reach higher Gs. Lightworlders are pretty tall (with an average of 1.8 to 1.9 meters), but have a much lighter muscle and bone structure, gimping their max BLD and allowing their FIT to go all the way down to -5. On the plus side, they're can be more agile than normal humans and get the first level of the Survival (Space) skill for free because that one's kinda important for them.
The OGL conversion gives them +2 Dex and -2 Con.

ZeeGees: Being raised in a gravity below 0.05 G makes you a "ZeeGee". This includes everyone from an non-rotating orbital station or asteroid with little to no gravity. ZeeGees are like Lightworlders, except their max BLD is even lower. They also have higher PER due to being used to 360 awareness. They get the Zero-G and Survival (Space) skills for free.
Under the OGL, they have +2 Dex, +2 Wis and -4 Con. Ouch.

Overall, nothing too fancy. The OGL conversion stats are a bit overkill, as SilCORE races just adjust your minimum and maximum attribute score. Most of the time, these 3 sub-races will fall within the same attribute range - especially since low BLD makes you very squishy and attributes beyond +3 are pretty darn expensive. Though I guess you could make a min-maxed ZeeGee mecha pilot who looks about as fit as Oetzi if you really want to.
There is however a slight change from the SilCORE rules where I don't know whether this was an oversight or a deliberate choice: As you modify a race's attribute limits, you can end up with races that don't cancel out their limit shifts (as it is the case with Lightworlders and ZeeGees, whose decrease in BLD and FIT outweights what their benefits). In this case, you are supposed to transfer points from your Attribute pool to the Skill pool or vice versa, depending on whether you get a net loss or gain (to encourage you to actually have a lower/higher attribute average). This isn't actually the case here. I suppose this was done on purpose to note that these are all still normal humans (and future medicine keeps those low Gs from having too big of an impact on their body), though I'm not entirely sure.

Next up, it's time to pick your stereotype, which is something normal SilCORE doesn't have. This is the most Mekton-ish part of chargen. You don't have to pick a stereotype, but they're quite interesting, giving you unique benefits and limitations, as well as a unique "anime power", most of which can only be used once per session and cost an Emergency Die (which are similar to Action/Hero/Fate points and are most often used to get additional dice during a skill roll, hence their name). Not picking a Stereotype has you start the game with 5 additional Emergency Dice.

(The OGL stuff only does a bit of prebuild stuff using 2 levels of a d20 Modern base class)

  • The Rookie: The typical mecha protagonist. You start of with fewer Skill Points, but gain twice the XP, which really helps you in the long run. Your anime power is "Beginner's Luck", which allows you to turn a negative modifier positive or the other way around, allowing you to do the impossible and break the unbreakable.
  • The Veteran: The opposite of the Rookie. You start with more Skill Points, but gain only half the XP, so you better concentrate on your important skills. Their anime power is "Voice of Experience", which grants someone a +3 bonus or have him succeed automatically in a pure roleplaying scene. This effect can be delayed, so your advice of "Do a barrel roll!" can be cashed in anytime during the same session.
  • The Expert: A tough jack-of-all-trades who doesn't quite get along with everyone else and likes to play the rival - that is before he starts warming up to everyone else. Very tsundere. They have fewer Character Points available (resulting in lower attributes), but their skills' Complexity (a new feature in SilCORE that determines your breadth of knowledg in a skill) is always considered to be 1 higher than it actually is. Their anime power is "Survival Instinct", wich gives them a pool of "Survival Points" that increases after each session and can be spend to reduce an opponent's skill for the duration of the scene or combat.
  • The Specialist: The opposite of the Expert. These guys and girls are insecure and have overspecialized in a particular field. They start off with more Character Points, but they must pay for that with Flaws (aka Disadvantages). This the only time Advantages or Flaws are mentioned in this chapter, so I guess other JC characters don't have those?
    Their anime power is "To the Limit", giving them a temporal boost to their equipment's stats (though this only really applies to vehicles and weapons).
  • The Curiosity: Usually female weirdoes like Rei Ayanami. They start off with fewer Character and Skill Points, and they must have an APP of at least +1 because female weirdoes in anime must be attractive. Their anime power is "Charm", which they can use to fascinate people (so a failure makese them quite suspicious). They are also encouraged to get a bit of a special GM treatment, with special equipment or convenient implants and stuff. It's a bit like having "GM's Girlfriend" as a class or something.

Next up, it's Archetypes. They're templates representing typical members of a certain profession, though they still leave some unspent Character and Skill Points for customization. They also come with starting equipment and salary, possible variations and some subplot ideas. They also give you another anime power, this one being generic enough to be used as-is for both SilCORE and OGL.
As with Stereotypes, you can choose not to pick an Archetype and get yourself 5 Emergency Dice instead.


The Pilot: The default mecha anime archetype. They pilot either fighters, spaceships or exo-armor and like getting into rivalries. Their anime power is "Sixth Sense", which allows you to negate a surprise attack and get an opponent off your tail.


The Soldier: Apart from the typical soldier, this is also for guards and the police. Their anime power is "Bruiser", which allows them to completey ignore damage from a single attack.


The Technician: These are you computer specialists, engineers and whatnot who keep everything running. Their anime power "Miracle Worker" is like the Soldier's "Bruiser" except it only affect vehicles and equipment and only last for the duration of the scene or combat.


The Scientist/Medic: These guys come up with new toys and keep everyone in shape. Their "Startling Discovery" allows them to accumulate "Research Points", which they can spend to make important discoveries or pimp out vehicles or equipment.


The Reporter: These are always out for a good scoop. By "Just Askin' Questions", they can blend into the crowd and ask people with drawin suspicion, which is handy in restricted areas.


The Official: Your diplomats, business personell and spies. They can use "Distract" to draw attention to or away from them.


The Spacer: Nomads, scouts and similar persons. "Spatial Awareness" allows them to ignore penalties related to bad lighting conditions, and they always know where they are instide an installation, building etc.


The Supplier: Merchants, basically. With "Requisition", they can use their connections to get just about any non-military item.

With that, you spend the rest of your remaining points, note down your equipment and flesh out the character's backstory.

Next time: Living in Space, aka lots and lots of technological stuff. Oh boy, this will probably be a long one.
(And I don't know how much of it is a reprint of the 1st edition Spacer's Guide)

Doresh fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Feb 8, 2015

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Doresh posted:

...ignoring stuff like the opponents intelligence, morale or general unwillingness to just run past the overmuscled freak wearing a ton of plate armor and wielding a giant sword that's on fire.
Ignoring the doof with the sword is, I think, fairly reasonable considering that the old lady behind him can plausibly kill everyone in the room with a handful of bat poo poo and some arcane gestures. :v:

Come to think of it, many games spend basically zero time talking about how this or that enemy behaves in combat, beyond vague generalizations like "ettins pick on the weak" or "kobolds are cowards". An adventure module might lay out some guidelines, but people who prefer to make their own or roll random encounters are kind of on their own. A lot of games drop a pile of guns and bombs and voulge-guisarmes on the players and the special abilities to go with them, but I haven't really seen a whole lot of support for the GM to make really interesting tactical scenarios around those tools. Most of the stuff is just boilerplate "oh just put in some environmental gimmicks like lava or something" when you could spend pages and pages on how different monsters' abilites combo in interesting ways, how to design good battlemaps and all that sort of miniatures gamey crap. I think someone made variant monster moves for Dungeon World that followed the pattern "when X, do Y". Those were pretty cool, and I'd love to see that sort of design space explored more in games that want to include that tactical combat element.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Doresh posted:

The first step of JC chargen involves picking a concept, with a couple helpful question to flesh the character out.
The 2nd step involves picking your "race", which in JC means "In what kind of gravitational environment did you grow up?". I'll be noting the nations/places where each race can be found, because the book doesn't really do that for you.

Huh. No Hoffmanites? I suppose tech isn't yet advanced far enough for colonizing a heavy-G world.

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


Glazius posted:

Huh. No Hoffmanites? I suppose tech isn't yet advanced far enough for colonizing a heavy-G world.

I'm not sure where you'd find a heavy-g solid world in our solar system.

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Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Siivola posted:

Ignoring the doof with the sword is, I think, fairly reasonable considering that the old lady behind him can plausibly kill everyone in the room with a handful of bat poo poo and some arcane gestures. :v:

All the more reason to try arrows and stuff. You don't wanna get to close to the big guy and the crazy witch.

quote:

Come to think of it, many games spend basically zero time talking about how this or that enemy behaves in combat, beyond vague generalizations like "ettins pick on the weak" or "kobolds are cowards". An adventure module might lay out some guidelines, but people who prefer to make their own or roll random encounters are kind of on their own. A lot of games drop a pile of guns and bombs and voulge-guisarmes on the players and the special abilities to go with them, but I haven't really seen a whole lot of support for the GM to make really interesting tactical scenarios around those tools. Most of the stuff is just boilerplate "oh just put in some environmental gimmicks like lava or something" when you could spend pages and pages on how different monsters' abilites combo in interesting ways, how to design good battlemaps and all that sort of miniatures gamey crap. I think someone made variant monster moves for Dungeon World that followed the pattern "when X, do Y". Those were pretty cool, and I'd love to see that sort of design space explored more in games that want to include that tactical combat element.

A shame. It's mostly about buffing up and optimizing your DPS. Or if you're really lazy, have the caster alpha strike everything and then rest.

Glazius posted:

Huh. No Hoffmanites? I suppose tech isn't yet advanced far enough for colonizing a heavy-G world.

wdarkk posted:

I'm not sure where you'd find a heavy-g solid world in our solar system.
True. Our only planets with higher gravity just so happen to be gas giants.

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