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That Old Tree
Jun 23, 2012

nah




Plague of Hats posted:

You guys are a little poo poo at top-of-the-head dates anyway! :v: That one just stuck out to me 'cause you usually at least get the right decade.

And this is the kind of quality that made me your first Patron. Everyone else should consider pitching in.

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theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



Plague of Hats posted:

And this is the kind of quality that made me your first Patron. Everyone else should consider pitching in.

I know, perfect timing! We'll continue making podcasts where we drunkenly assert that 90s movies came out eight years later for years to come. Man, I sure remember how bad Spawn was in 2005. At least the soundtrack was neat.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Why settle for the 90s? I certainly can't wait for that Avengers movie that comes out in a few years.

Jovian Chronicles Second Edition RPG Player's Handbook


Chapter 6: Weapons & Equipment

Living

This chapter starts of with something I think might've been better for the last chapter about living in space: taxe rates and the costs of a living quarter.
The average taxe rate ranges from 5% for cowboy Mars and up to 50% for East Germany Mars. Earth and Jupiter are at 35% and 15%, respectively.
Living quarters are pretty standardized, and the base "models" don't even have a bathroom or kitchen (you have common rooms for those). The absolute minimum you can get are "coffin rooms" (a tube just big enough to sleep in and store stuff) and "square holes" (just big enough for up to two people). Basic quarters are twice or four times as big and can be further pimped out with stuff like bathroom and storage areas (though that can get very expensive very fast). If you're really wealthy, you can get yourself fancy quarters big enough for proper couches and beds and all sorts of decorations.

Food is processed and comes from optimized greenhouse modules on the station. "Normal" food can be found in restaurants and is quite expensive. We also find out that Mars is really big in wine.

There's a bit on clothing and uniform colors for the various nations. Basically, natural fibers are only used on Earth. Everyone else makes clothes out of artificial carbon fabrics with traits similar to spider webbing. People in space also prefer form-fitting clothes because they are less prone to get stuck on things (not to mention that skirts, coats and robes don't really work at low Gs).

Space Suits

Since PCs will spend a good chunk of their time in space, space suits get their own section. They're a lot like current space suits, but of course more advanced, with improved self-sealing capabilities and a myomer layer to support the wearer's movement. They're still pretty stiff and uncomfortable, but its up to the GM whether to adress this or just treat it like normal clothing whre you can just slap the helmet on and be ready for space action.

Space suits come in two general categories. The most common are "soft suits", which are your typical anime spacesuits that may or may not actually replace our current space suits in the near future. They're still a bit bulky, though, with the exception of pilot suits (which trade air supply and protection for flexibility) and mars suits (because Mars' atmosphere is pretty tame). Also included here are emergency space suits, which are very puffy suits with a plastic helmet that can be folded into a suitcase.
Hard suits are more like what we're using today. They're big, bulky and stiff. They offer the best protection against radiation and possible damage, which comes in handy for construction workers and researchers. The military is also quite fond of armored suits, which is about the closest thing this book has to space marine armor.

Space suits are also highly moddable, with every type coming with several slots. This includes stuff like a HUD display, a food dispenser, light sources, magnetic gravity boots and thrusters.

Tools

Nothing too out of the ordinary here. There are some tethers for quick travel in Zero-G, a couple sheets and nets to keep your stuff from floating around, and people in colony stations apparently prefer parafoils and bicycles for personal transportation.
As Earthlings aren't as experienced in Zero-G environments as the other guys, they tend to use the "Abraham Microgravity Assistant", a spherical drone you hold on to. Some of the more playful models are apparently similar to Haro from Gundam.

Medical Technology

Just a bunch of medical kits, drugs and vaccines.

Communications

A list of various devices for communications and recording by various companies, with the most lightweight being a combination of a headsat and a wristcom-band. The most interesting is probably Masuo-PANet's VR goggles. They also have VR suits, though the tactile feedback hardware makes those quite heavy. No mention of any sort of game consoles though.
There are also datapads, but unlike Star Trek PADDs or modern-day smartphones, these things are just glorified data storage devices that can't actually do anything unless linked to a proper computer.
For all your espionage needs, there are microcameras, voice/signal scramblers, repeaters and boosters, as well as Subvocal Microphones that let you talk really, really quietly.
If you're a bit paranoid, you can get yourself a "discretion device" used to disable various spy toys.

Survival Gear

Goggles, gas masks, ropes backpacks, and even some wannabe Capsule Corporation pods that fold out into small emergency shelters. There's also a bunch of survival suits for whatever environment you can think of, including desert and diving suits. Of particular note are vaccuum suits. These are different from space suits in that they only protect against vacuum. Good for ships and stations without life support, a bit risky for outer space, what with the lack of insulation. Since they're also skin-tight, I'm pretty sure they won't be used for some fanservice later in the book.

Fire Fighting

Fire's pretty darn dangerous in space, so if just cutting the burning section off of air is out of the question, you can use funny stuff like foam bombs.

Structural Repair

If your ship's hull is breached or otherwise damaged, you can go for a temporal fix, like a polymer sheet or some good old reinforcing beams. There are also "sealant bombs" that work a bit like foam bombs, just with some kind of polymer super glue instead of foam. Thankfully, there are solvents around for the hilarious case of someone getting hit by one and being sealed to the nearest wall.

Search & Rescue

Lots of neat stuff about docking onto and cutting into hulls, as well as getting people out of there ASAP. Of particular note is the "Emergency Amtosphere Generator" (fills a vacuum with a temporary atmosphere) and "Oxy-Life" (pumps oxygen directly into your blood stream, though usage for more than a couple minutes can get dangerous)

Weapons

Generally, everyone in the solar nation can get himself some personal sidearms, but most people are a bit wary of people parading weapons around (excluding military and law enforcement).

The first list is all about archaic melee weapons, which still see use inside ships and stations because they are far less likely to cause hull breaches or system damage. Things start of a bit weird with the pictures used in this section:



Why did nobody notice the spelling error that is Nanginata? And what is an ASP?
Though I guess these questions are superfluous as only the sword, axe, tonfa and knife actually appear on the weapons list (unless you treat the naginata as a pole axe). It appears this picture is from a more extensive book from the last edition. In fact the whole table might also be from said edition, as it doesn't list the parry modifier that I think was introduced in this edition of SilCORE.

Since humanity never grows tired of making up new deadly weapons, we also have a couple hi-tech ones. These are "hummers" (vibro-weapons, available as knives, machetes and katana) and electric weapons, which are no new weapons but rather archaic melee weapons that shock their target on impact. The intensity is variable and can be set from "light tickle" to "pretty much guaranteed knockout with a good chance of frying". Pretty dangerous to an unprepared target.

There's also this picture:



Why are the knife and axe "vibro-" if the JC term for this is "hummer-"? Why is there a Vibro Axe if there is no HummerAxe? What is a snap blade? Is this picture from a Heavy Gear book or something :psyduck: ?!

(At least the stun stick is kinda obviously an electric tonfa, though those can do far more than just "stun" people.)

Moving on, ranged weapons start of with bows (but no crossbows; you'd think they would be there if we go that oldschool) and goes through a lot of firearm variations. There are 10 different handguns, and most other kinds of firearms have at least 3. Might be a bit much for some, but I think SilCOREs Range Bands and Damage Multipliers allow for slight performance difference without bugging everything down with too many statistics to keep track of.
Notable firearms include:
  • Holt Exterminator Pistol: A ridiculous CEGA handgun that deals almost as much damage as the strongest sniper rifle. Its recoil makes it a rare sight outside of Earth.
  • Gyrockets: A sub-category of firearms using rocket-propelled bullets (a bit like Warhammer 40k bolters). Useful in Zero-G environments as they don't cause recoil, but they deal noticably less damage at short range because the bullets need a while to reach maximum velocity.
  • Gaussian Weapons: Another sub-category, these are your typical coilguns propelling their projectiles with magnetism. There's a gauss shotgun, but that one's more like a machine gun in that it shoots a precise stream of pellets.

Beam weapons get their own table. They consist of lasers and masers (microwave guns), with a special police sidearm that combines a laser with a sonic stunner. All beam weapons have different settings like in Star Trek, and they all gain an accuracy bonus (because every beam weapon has a built-in laser targeting sight, which is just the normal fire mode on its lowest setting. Not quite sure how this works with masers, though.). They also have the advantage of most types of armor only offering partial protection against them.

Non-lethal ranged weapons includes the classic taser and the sonic stunner, which shocks targets with subsonic waves.

Heavy weapons are the big guns. They're only available to the military and help infantry deal with exo-suits and -armors (though the latter will probably still curbstomp the infantry). The list is pretty much what you expect: machine guns, chainguns, mortar, rocket launchers and of course heavy versions of those futuristic firearms (plus a particle cannon). Of particular note is the "Armageddon Gun", a CEGA favorite that is essentially a machinegune with a built-in grenade launcher (every action hero's wet dream).

Explosives & Grenades list has all the usual suspects, with only maser grenades (aka microwave grenade), night glue grenades (blinds and is sticky) and glue solvent sticking out.

The list of special ammunition also comes with a lot of expected stuff like armor-piercing and tracer rounds. More unusual ammo includes energy-homing and guided (both for missiles and mortars only), as well as recoilless rounds tha turn an ordinary firearm into a poor man's gyrocket weapon. For beam weapons, you can get military-grade high-capacity power cells, which provide more energy at the cost of a possible surge.

Weapon accessories have a lot more interesting stuff. You got your silencers, optical and laser sights (the latter doing nothing for beam weapons as they already have that), but you also have smart sights (which display the exact point of impact after a proper calibration), stabiliziers (keeps the gun stable at all costs, which does make hitting mobile targets pretty hard) and a bunch of special holsters, including quickdraw holsters and snap draw holsters you hide in your sleeves.
For fans of the movie Aliens, there's the harness system (essentially carries weapons for you) and the much more advanced Heavy Weapon Exo-Skeleton that doubles as armor and gives you an effective Strength of +2 (which in SilCORE is a secondary attribute, calculated by averaging your Build and Fitness), making this useful for all but the strongest soldiers.


Game over, man.

Defensive Systems

For protection against possible attacks, an increasing amount of ships and stations install defensive systems. These are anti-missile systems (shoots down missiles with automated guns or lasers) and anti-laser aerosol (covers the area with laser-disrupting gas).

Also in this category is armor, which makes sense I guess. You've got your low tech armor like leather and composite armor, as well as hi-tech armor made up of various "dura-" materials. There's also reflec armor against lasers and an interference screen suit against masers. As these two only protect against these damage sources (with reflect providing partial protection against masers), you have the much better option of incorporating their benefits into normal armor.
The armor is listed as a full set (without helmet), with a modifier depending on whether you only use part of the set or add a helmet. Simple and elegant.

There's some pretty nifty stuff in terms of shields: the assault shield (a heavy SWAT shield big enough for two), the protective case (a suitcase that transforms into a shield; very popular with bodyguards) and the stun shield (a riot shield that can shock people).

Similar to space suits, you can pimp your armor with electronic and stealth systems.

Sadly, the armor section only comes with one picture, though that one manages to be both badass and kinda adorable:


I call her Stormtrooper-chan.

The section ends with OGL stats for all the equipment (minus stuff you can already find in d20 Modern or Future). Seems to be basically taking OGL equipment as the base and scaling things around. Said scaling has been done linearly, as opposed to the "Damage and armor increases exponentially"-mantra used by SilCORE which doesn't really translate to actual in-game effects anyways, so it's fine.
And of course, as soon as the players have more than a handful of levels, weapons will be significantly less lethal as in SilCORE, where not getting hit in the first place is the best option, as everything that can get through your armor will hurt. A lot.

Next time: The heart of every mecha anime (sort of): Giant robots and spaceships!

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



Doresh posted:

Why settle for the 90s? I certainly can't wait for that Avengers movie that comes out in a few years.

The Avengers came out in 2006. Remember, it had Uma Thurman and some sort of Fiennes.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Doresh posted:

And what is an ASP?

It's meant to be an collapsible baton, which are prominently manufactured and sold by Armament Systems & Procedures aka ASP.

Doresh posted:

What is a snap blade? Is this picture from a Heavy Gear book or something :psyduck: ?!

In reverse order, yes, and a snap blade is basically wearable Wolverine claws/that thing from Assassin's Creed that come in a forearm bracer that you can wear under your sleeve.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


theironjef posted:

The Avengers came out in 2006. Remember, it had Uma Thurman and some sort of Fiennes.

Oh, I of course meant "Avengers Assemble". Rumors say it has a flying aircraft carrier.

Kai Tave posted:

It's meant to be an collapsible baton, which are prominently manufactured and sold by Armament Systems & Procedures aka ASP.

...

In reverse order, yes, and a snap blade is basically wearable Wolverine claws/that thing from Assassin's Creed that come in a forearm bracer that you can wear under your sleeve.

So the book provides pictures of two different extendo weapons without actually listing them anywhere :psyduck: ?

And those snap blades sound pretty snikt.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Feb 17, 2015

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Doresh posted:

So the book provides pictures of two different extendo weapons without actually listing them anywhere :psyduck: ?

My hazy memories of later Dream Pod 9 products is that the editing tended to suffer, especially since I believe it was around SilCORE that their staff and freelancer pool had shrunk rather significantly.

Pussy Cartel
Jun 26, 2011





Lipstick Apathy

DP9's editing started out just fine, but around the early 2000s it went into a seriously sharp decline, and hit its low point around the time they started dual statting things for OGL, and Heavy Gear 3rd ed and Jovian Chronicles 2nd ed came out. I clearly remember Life on Utopia being full of references to page XX and contradicting itself multiple times throughout the book, not to mention referring to things it had never mentioned or explained with the assumption the reader already knew what was going on.

I think it was about a year or so before DP9 decided to drop games altogether and become a movie production company(?).

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



Pussy Cartel posted:

I think it was about a year or so before DP9 decided to drop games altogether and become a movie production company(?).
They couldn't edit a game book properly... so they decided to go into film making? How'd that work out for them?

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




They licensed a couple of video games to Activision starting in 1997, and in 1999 they "hit it big" when Sony optioned Heavy Gear and produced an animated series. They had more reason than most companies to believe that their financial future was in licensing the franchises they had developed.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





And now they're back to games, having concluded a Kickstarter for Heavy Gear Blitz miniatures last year, except that I guess they decided they needed more money because they're soliciting funding on one of the even shadier crowdfunding sites.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:


Halloween Jack posted:

They licensed a couple of video games to Activision starting in 1997, and in 1999 they "hit it big" when Sony optioned Heavy Gear and produced an animated series. They had more reason than most companies to believe that their financial future was in licensing the franchises they had developed.

The animated series was.. bad. I'll let wikipedia explain

quote:

The Dream Pod 9 creative staff had very little input in the series' content, and the animated universe differs significantly from the game's. The show was aimed at an audience much younger than the one the property had previously targeted. The producers' original intent was to start the series with a mecha-combat tournament held between the villainous Vanguard of Justice and the honorable Shadow Dragons (representatives of Terra Nova's Northern and Southern armies respectively), but after the resolution of the tournament storyline rising tensions would lead to war between the North and South, which would in turn be followed by an invasion from Earth trying to reconquer its old colony planet, forcing the North and South to join forces for their own survival. Worries that having the villains from the early episodes (the Vanguard characters) suddenly working with the heroes, and shifting from a tournament-styled competition to all-out mecha warfare, would have been too confusing for their targeted age group led to a decision to not use the war storyline. What ended up happening on the show was that they ran the tournament storyline as planned but even though the tournament had been 'won' within the first dozen or so episodes, the two teams just kept having exhibition matches and the like for the remainder of the 40 episode run.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Even taken on its own merits the show wasn't all that good either, so there's that too!

Man, DP9's history is kinda sad in that "nostalgic about elfgames" way. Heavy Gear came out during a time when anime wasn't entirely unfamiliar to US audiences but it wasn't near as commonplace as it is these days so it kind of had this mystique to it, and you could tell that they were super into this setting because they wrote like a billion words on it in sourcebooks that covered like every single Terra Novan nation and multiple "Jane's" style books on the mechs and vehicles and aircraft and stuff, even space combat got a book, and unlike Battletech which was all about these massive robot knights slugging it out as kings of the battlefield Heavy Gear straight up told you "if a tank shoots you then you will die" and it was true.

And then after that you had Jovian Chronicles which was "Gundam meets Top Gun, only extremely boring" and it felt more by the numbers and lacking some of that crazy passion, then you had Tribe 8 which was kind of crazy but definitely different and garnered a fanbase for itself, then there was Gear Krieg which was the most lackluster "WWII with robots and poo poo" setting ever that I think lasted all of three books? And then came SilCore and CORE Command which promised to be like Mass Effect by way of Lensmen with personal sidearms that could destroy starships and poo poo and it pretty much got universally panned both for mechanics issues and an incredibly boring setting that didn't do justice to the concept. It was like they just gradually petered out.

Pussy Cartel
Jun 26, 2011





Lipstick Apathy

Rangpur posted:

They couldn't edit a game book properly... so they decided to go into film making? How'd that work out for them?

Hopefully someone else knows more about DP9's history and can fill the gaps in, but...I was a huge fan of Heavy Gear back in the early 2000s, and then around 2004 they made this big announcement about how gaming was dead and they were going to change directions to instead help with movie and TV production. They even had a new logo for the company and everything and showed it off on the DP9 website, and this is about when I stopped paying attention since I figured they were done for. Fast forward a few years and around 2007 or 2008 they were back with a new edition of the Heavy Gear mini game, Blitz.

And that's been about all they've done ever since, despite repeated promises to release a new edition of the RPG that never end up panning out. Christ, at one point Steve Jackson Games was supposed to be working on a new RPG edition, but that fell through after years in limbo. They've got a new company working on it now, but all that's been done so far is a rerelease of the oldest published HG adventure.

Kai Tave posted:

Even taken on its own merits the show wasn't all that good either, so there's that too!

Man, DP9's history is kinda sad in that "nostalgic about elfgames" way. Heavy Gear came out during a time when anime wasn't entirely unfamiliar to US audiences but it wasn't near as commonplace as it is these days so it kind of had this mystique to it, and you could tell that they were super into this setting because they wrote like a billion words on it in sourcebooks that covered like every single Terra Novan nation and multiple "Jane's" style books on the mechs and vehicles and aircraft and stuff, even space combat got a book, and unlike Battletech which was all about these massive robot knights slugging it out as kings of the battlefield Heavy Gear straight up told you "if a tank shoots you then you will die" and it was true.

Yeah, HG was crazily detailed, and they went all out in describing the cultures, histories, and societies of the different human colonies. They even had everyone's favorite 90s RPG feature, a metaplot, which was being covered by their storyline books. A bunch of changes in DP9's staff pretty much hosed over their metaplot, though, as a bunch of people left without ever telling anyone else how a number of plot threads were supposed to work out. When DP9 eventually released Heavy Gear Blitz they just rebooted the setting and rebuilt the metaplot from the ground up.

Still waiting on those Jotenheim and New Jerusalem sourcebooks, guys. And an Earth book that isn't a horrifically edited mess.

Pussy Cartel fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Feb 18, 2015

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Kai Tave posted:

My hazy memories of later Dream Pod 9 products is that the editing tended to suffer, especially since I believe it was around SilCORE that their staff and freelancer pool had shrunk rather significantly.

Pussy Cartel posted:

DP9's editing started out just fine, but around the early 2000s it went into a seriously sharp decline, and hit its low point around the time they started dual statting things for OGL, and Heavy Gear 3rd ed and Jovian Chronicles 2nd ed came out. I clearly remember Life on Utopia being full of references to page XX and contradicting itself multiple times throughout the book, not to mention referring to things it had never mentioned or explained with the assumption the reader already knew what was going on.

Yeah, that "fun" is about to start with the next chapter. Suffice to say, it's good to have fan-made errata for the writeups around.

And does anyone know how many errors the Gear Krieg Player's Handbook has? I can't find any errata for that one.

Kai Tave posted:

Even taken on its own merits the show wasn't all that good either, so there's that too!

Man, DP9's history is kinda sad in that "nostalgic about elfgames" way. Heavy Gear came out during a time when anime wasn't entirely unfamiliar to US audiences but it wasn't near as commonplace as it is these days so it kind of had this mystique to it, and you could tell that they were super into this setting because they wrote like a billion words on it in sourcebooks that covered like every single Terra Novan nation and multiple "Jane's" style books on the mechs and vehicles and aircraft and stuff, even space combat got a book, and unlike Battletech which was all about these massive robot knights slugging it out as kings of the battlefield Heavy Gear straight up told you "if a tank shoots you then you will die" and it was true.

That's definitely the biggest draw of Heavy Gear. I like all sorts of giant robots, and it's good to know there's some down-to-Earth stuff around for when I've had enough of Super Robots.

Not even Japan itself seems to have much love for these gritty mecha after that period of Real Robot shows that formed the design base for BattleTech. Code Geass kinda sorta started out grounded, but then you had flying mecha shenanigans everywhere.

Kurieg posted:

The animated series was.. bad. I'll let wikipedia explain

If the kids where all busy watching Goku team up with a demon snail guy and a mass-murdering space invader, I think they can take having two arena groups join forces.

And I guess this is a point for the BattleTech cartoon, which was about Mechwarriors form rivaling houses having to work together to fend off the Clan invasion.

Pussy Cartel posted:

Yeah, HG was crazily detailed, and they went all out in describing the cultures, histories, and societies of the different human colonies. They even had everyone's favorite 90s RPG feature, a metaplot, which was being covered by their storyline books. A bunch of changes in DP9's staff pretty much hosed over their metaplot, though, as a bunch of people left without ever telling anyone else how a number of plot threads were supposed to work out. When DP9 eventually released Heavy Gear Blitz they just rebooted the setting and rebuilt the metaplot from the ground up.

Still waiting on those Jotenheim and New Jerusalem sourcebooks, guys. And an Earth book that isn't a horrifically edited mess.

At least the writers of Tribe 8 were kind enough to info dump the entire metaplot in the GM section.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 18, 2015

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Hey, I just remembered that Exosquad existed. Good job, Jovian Chronicles!

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Halloween Jack posted:

Hey, I just remembered that Exosquad existed. Good job, Jovian Chronicles!

You should always remember Exosquad. :colbert:

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.


Clapping Larry

Gear Krieg is a fascinating and flawed game. I don't like the term '-punk', but it is diesel to the core.

Pussy Cartel
Jun 26, 2011





Lipstick Apathy

I always got the impression that DP9 had meant to do something with Gear Krieg along the lines of JC and HG, but it never materialized and was just left as a somewhat incomplete-feeling game.

Mile'ionaha
Nov 2, 2004



Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Gear Krieg is a fascinating and flawed game. I don't like the term '-punk', but it is diesel to the core.

And now I'm having flashbacks to playing Ring of Red. Which is basically the game you described: fascinating and flawed and diesel to the core. And Looooong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuizKom-bjo

Mile'ionaha fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 19, 2015

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.


Clapping Larry

I have Ring of Red! Yeah I love the diesel aesthetic and I want to run a WWII-ish alien invasion setting where humanity is basically trapped in giant submarines while the invaders control the surface.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!


So, looking at the F&F Wiki, we DO have an Eoris review, but it's listed as "abandoned" despite getting a decent distance into the text. I'm thinking of giving it a try, because what we DID get sounded crazy as hell.

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003




PurpleXVI posted:

So, looking at the F&F Wiki, we DO have an Eoris review, but it's listed as "abandoned" despite getting a decent distance into the text. I'm thinking of giving it a try, because what we DID get sounded crazy as hell.

That's me. Basically, I realized I'd screwed up the rhythm by covering most of the rules during chargen so there wasn't a great deal left except for the initiative rules - which I couldn't make any sense of - and Primordial Clay, which lets you make new species. Also I had gotten to the point where opening the books was guaranteed to bring on a headache, since you have to basically scan and memorize the whole thing to know that you're not missing something elsewhere at any given moment. By all means pick it up though.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Humbug Scoolbus posted:

I have Ring of Red! Yeah I love the diesel aesthetic and I want to run a WWII-ish alien invasion setting where humanity is basically trapped in giant submarines while the invaders control the surface.

My issue with Ring of Red is that it takes place in the '60s. While I can understand that there's plenty of WW2 surplus running around at that time, it would seem like a Korean/Vietnam scenario in Japan would be major flashpoint and you'd see '60s era tech running around. If they wanted to keep the WW2 tech along with a Cold War atmosphere, they should have set it sometime in the late '40s, early '50s, concurrent with the Korean War.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!


hyphz posted:

That's me. Basically, I realized I'd screwed up the rhythm by covering most of the rules during chargen so there wasn't a great deal left except for the initiative rules - which I couldn't make any sense of - and Primordial Clay, which lets you make new species. Also I had gotten to the point where opening the books was guaranteed to bring on a headache, since you have to basically scan and memorize the whole thing to know that you're not missing something elsewhere at any given moment. By all means pick it up though.

Well, was there enough missing that there's actually anything new I could cover? Or would I basically just be repeating your words with more swearing and crying?

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003




PurpleXVI posted:

Well, was there enough missing that there's actually anything new I could cover? Or would I basically just be repeating your words with more swearing and crying?

There was certainly some new stuff to cover. You could actually try to play it instead of just making a character, for one thing.. :)

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!


hyphz posted:

There was certainly some new stuff to cover. You could actually try to play it instead of just making a character, for one thing.. :)

Oh, hell, I'll give it a shot. I need something to pass the time until Desborough releases his loving Gor RPG, anyway.

Bacon In A Wok
Jan 27, 2014


PurpleXVI posted:

Oh, hell, I'll give it a shot. I need something to pass the time until Desborough releases his loving Gor RPG, anyway.
Hey Purple, any interest in the near future in going back to look at the Night[noun] adventures for the Hollow World setting? If you're not interested anymore, I may give them a once-over, because WOW are they early 90s adventure design.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!


Bacon In A Wok posted:

Hey Purple, any interest in the near future in going back to look at the Night[noun] adventures for the Hollow World setting? If you're not interested anymore, I may give them a once-over, because WOW are they early 90s adventure design.

I remember the Hollow World stuff didn't really catch me much when I read it, so go right ahead.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


It's the final chapter, everyone! Let's go out with lots of pictures!

Jovian Chronicles Second Edition RPG Player's Handbook


Chapter 7: Mechanical Catalog

Now on to one of the most important chapters for an RPG based on a vehicle-centric tabletop wargame: The vehicles!

Exo-Armor and Spaceship Basics

Things start off with a description of exo-armors. They originally started out as combat space suits and became gradually bigger as developers slapped more and more stuff on them. They exist in tandem with spacefighters, who play second fiddle because exo-armors are tougher and nimbler. You'd think this would be the other way around, what with fighters being more compact and all.
Exo-armors have much fancier cockpits than you see in most Gundam continuities. The pilot is surrounded by screens giving him a full view of the surroundings (almost like in BattleTech), and the exo-armor is controlled through a combination of joystick input and the "linear frame", an exo-skeleton in which the pilot is suspended that allows the machine to mimic his every move.

Mechanically, the typical exo-armor has a Size between 11 and 13, with a mass of 40 or more tons and a height of around 16 m. This puts them in about the same mass category as a light tank or a fighter plane, and slightly below most Mobile Suits
Their movement modes are of course Walker and Space. Since Jovian Chronicles uses the realistic Space movement rules, they only have to use their thrusters to change velocity and facing, both of which drains their "Burn Points" (BPs), an abstracted value that keeps track of their space fuel.
Though they don't have a dedicated amtospheric flight engine, they can still fly with their thrusters, though that's not very cost-efficient as they have to constantly cancel out the local gravity and burn their BP fast. They can also use it as a jumpjet, which probably gives them more distance for their BP, especially if they use it to boost their normal jumping distance.

Spaceships range from robust and complex designs to simple modules slapped together with an engine at one end. To provide gravity with their fusion thrusters (aka "plasma drives"), they are rarely not accelerating or decelerating, with the switch happening at the half-way point of their journey. As this creates gravity towards the engine, the layout of a spaceship is closer to a building than a plane.
Most spaceships are not built to enter or operate in an atmosphere.

Everything bigger than a spacerfighter is built using the modular design approach, slapping together sections built separately, with at least one requiring the actual engine output to carry the rest. This requires more bookkeeping than just creating the ship as one vehicle (that may or may not be built on an entirelly different scale from everything else), but it makes for a much better integration with exo-armor and other smaller vehicles as those now actually stand a chance to damage it at least partially.

Spacecraft Maneuvers

These are a couple new rules for spaceships with realistic space movement (SilCORE also supports the cinematic "Thrust? What's that? Everything flies like a plane in space!"-route). Not inlcuded are JC's iconic Lightning Strike rules (the kind of split-second combat that occurs if two ships fly towards each other or one suddenly stops), as those are covered in the main SilCORE book.

  • Fuel Skimming: Scoop atmosphere gases to replenish your tank. The rules are sound, but the quality editing mentions the mysterious "page XXX" of the SilCORE book twice, and it talks about a "Size-to-Mass table" that does not exist (SilCORE just has a formular for both ways). This starts off rather promising.
  • Aerobreaking: Temporarily enter an atmosphere to quickly lose velocity. Can cause heat damage, especially if your ship was not built for atmospheric entry.
  • Coasting: For those pilots that either can't afford or don't want to accelerate for an extended time, here's a formular to quickly calculate travel time based on how much thrust you're willing to apply.
  • Gravity Whip: A popular maneuver for probes in which you use a planet's momentum for fuel-efficient acceleration or deceleration. A bit hard to use as you need to know the planet's speed (though that's one Wikipedia search away), and because the "angle multiplier" table you need to use omits the actual multiplier. Whoops.
  • Hyperthrusting: Overclock your engines to double their thrust, though this burns fuel much faster and has a good chance of damaging the engine.
  • Using Thrusters as Weapons: Usually ignored in most pieces of modern fiction, any engine capable of accelerating several tons of mass for interplanetary travel (or even faster) makes for a very nice weapon, though it quickly loses its bite over distance.
  • Remote Control: Some rules for drones, which later found its way into the SilCORE FAQ file.

Space Terrain

Here are some rules about realistic space hazards and terrain. This includes planetary rings, radiation belts, shadows (anything blocked off from the sun is pretty darn cold and dark), extreme temperatures and vacuum. Lots of neat stuff.

And now onto the actual vehicles! As exo-armors tend to have all weapons be either handheld or mounted on hardpoints, they can be easily customized. Some of the more iconic exo-armors come with a list of official variants.

These writeups are also where you see the most errors in the entire book, which is a bit embarassing for a company that's all about vehicle-centric tabletop wargames.
For starters, most exo-armors don't mention their sensor and ECM system's range and quality (though the range is listed under the OGL stats made with d20 Mecha). And the weapon lists seem to omit to not the "Hardpoint" and "Handheld" perks.
The writers also didn't include the Threat Value aka point cost of the vehicles, deeming those unnecessary for the RPG part of JC. Admittedly, the main book tells you that you can just ignore the points and just build your vehicles, but then the OGL stats come with both point and credit costs :psyduck:

Pathfinder


This is the poster mech of the entire franchise, making it the setting's Gundam - though it's also the setting's Zaku as it's one of the oldest designs, making up a good chunk of the Jovian exo-armor forces.
After that surprise visit by an hostile invasion fleet, the Jovians decided to crank out their military production, resulting in the Pathfinder to get upgraded for better performance and easier mass-production.

As a light exo-armor not meant to be a main combat unit, the Pathfinder is lightly armed and armored. Its main weapon is a particle cannon, and it has 2 missiles on its left shoulder for when you need a heavier punch. If things get desparate, it can use two plasma lances for close combat. For a better utility role, the Pathfinder has an advanced sensor system in its massive forehead (which kinda reminds me of an EVA-01 still growing up) and a radar dish on its right shoulder.

Variations include:
  • Pathfinder CT: The command version of the Pathfinder, trading the particle cannon for an improved particle rifle, with more fuel, better thrusters and communication systems on top. The only downside is that the rifle has ammo, while the cannon can shoot all day.
  • Pathfinder RC: The recon version, trading the missiles for a more efficient engine and a beefed-up sensor array.
  • Pathfinder ST: The sniper version. This one replaces all weapons with better sensors and a long-range massdriver rifle. Despite being a sniper weapon, it does not have the sniper modification that gives a hit bonus at long ranges, though I guess this is not mandatory. Then again, this is the only mecha sniper weapon in the book that does not have this modification.

Retaliator


The Retaliator is an interceptor exo-armor who packs quite a mean punch for its size, though it is comparatively lightly armored. Aside from 2 plasma lances, it carries a railgun and a total of 10 missiles.

Vindicator


The strongest mass-produced exo-armor there is, and one of the newest models in the Jovian military. It's not very fast, but it is heavily armored, with an anti-missile system, a railgun/laser combination (though the lasers are weaksauce backup weapons) that is not shown on the picture and a crapton of missiles that are very spammable.

(Though I'm starting to wonder why those shoulder-mounted missiles count as a single missile system with 10 shots. Looks more like 10 one-shot systems. Makes the missiles harder to take out, and the pilot could launch, something mecha pilots love doing. Or if you want to keep things simple, at least give that one missile weapon some ROF so you can launch multiple missiles.)

Stormrider


This ridiculous fellow is based on a configuration (aka Mekton Command Armor) for the Prometheus prototype exo-armor. Still more or less a prototype itself, the Stormrider has nevertheless shown some promising results.
If the huge particle cannons and the massive thrusters are any indication, the Stormrider's main purpose is that of a fast assault unit. It also comes with a chest-mounted scatter launcher aka shotgun, a ton of missiles (though I'm pretty sure that puny Damage Multiplier of 10 is an error; they typically have 16-30), and a point-defense laser system.
Overall, it doesn't really hit harder than the Vindicator, but it does so faster. Though I was honestly expecting more oomph from those oversized guns (they actually just have improved range over the saner models).

Lancer


The primary Jovian spacefighter, this interceptor carries a giant, rocket-shaped weapon pod around for quick and easy weapon swapping. The standard loadout consists of various missile types, with options for a laser, more missiles or rockets. It also comes with counter measures.
It also has some weird antennae that give the whole design a rather alien/insectoid look.

Syreen


This CEGA creation is the result of the Earthlings freaking out about all those fancy mecha used by everyone else, so they quickly cobbled together this slightly humanoid rocket. Still, despite its cheapness, it has some neat stuff, like a laser system that automatically hits any enemy that comes too close. Though since this was a rush job, the system has a tendency towards friendly fire.
Other than using said laser system manually at range, it has a lot of missiles.

Wyvern


Since the Syreen couldn't keep up with the lastest Jovian models, CEGA built a proper exo-armor (based on an older exo-armor model they got from Mars) in the form of the Wyvern, aiming to best the Jovians with superior firepower and armor. It comes with an anti-missile system and two head-mounted anti-infantry massdrivers (making it more Gundam-ish than the Pathfinder), along with a bazooka, shoulder-mounted missiles and leg-mounted rockets.

Like the Pathfinder, it comes in several variants:

  • Wyvern Command: Like the previous command variant, this is one is s straight upgrade from the standard model, with more speed and better sensor and communication systems. It also trades the bazooka for a much meaner automatic rifle.
  • Wyern Marine: This one has additional armor plating and comes with both the bazooka and the rifle. It also gets a hummer knife, though there are no stats provided for it (though those appear on the next model, who also has the knife).
  • Wyvern Bomber: The missile spam version, ditching the bazooka for additional shoulder missile launchers and a handheld rocket pod.

Cerberus


The newest CEGA model, created with Venusian help. Its name comes from the shoulder-mounted radar and ECM systems, which do look a bit like heads.
The Cerberus combines high speed with very heavy armor, though that leaves very little in terms of weaponry: It carries an automatic sniper rifle, Gundam vulcans, a knife and a plasma lance.

Fury


Taking a cue from the Dragonstriker prototype, this exo-armor is a straight upgrade of the Syreen. It comes with a more advanced laser system geared more towards missile defense than autonomous firing. The shoulders come with 8 hardpoints, making the design very flexible.

Since the standard Fury has lots of empty hardpoints, they fall into one of 3 variants, which are named after the three furies of Greek mythology:

  • Alecto, The Unceasing: The recon model, with better sensors and stuff and recon drones.
  • Megaera, The Grudging: The default model, comes with a shoulder-mounted sniper railgun and missiles for the shoulders.
  • Tsiphone, The Avenging: This one's used to take down ships. It has plenty of room for torpedoes, and it comes with two extra-powerful plasma lances that go through ship hulls like a hot knife through butter.
Sadly, you can't actually use the drones and torpedo bay without the "CHAOS" book.

Wraith


CEGAs old interceptor fighter with a two-man crew. Has some flexible hardpoints, and the standard loadout consists of two particle cannons and a missle bay.

Brimstone


The shiny new Mercurian exo-armor. Heat-resistnt, fast and maneuverable, it suffers from a lack of fuel and serious firepower. Nevertheless, it's popular for protecting merchant ships and helping out with the cargo.

Ryu


The most recent Venusian toy, still kept very secret (the current Venusian main mech is the Oni, which is pretty much a Wyvern). It comes with two plasma lances, shoulder-mounted missiles and a rifle, with possible options including heavy missiles and particle cannons. It also has a sort of Gundam vulcan on its head, though this one fires laser beams.

Minotaur


A goofy-looking CEGA exo-suit, with a height of 2.8 meters. It's pretty much oversized power armor, making boarding action in more cramped ships and stations pretty hard. It comes with a hummer blade, grenades and one of two rifles.
As an exo-suit, it's not really a threat for exo-armor, but it makes short work of infantry.

Falconer


The main Jovian exo-suit. It's smaller than the minotaur (2.2 meters) and more geared towards speed than endurance. It defends itself with a plasma lance, missiles and a rifle.

Bricriu-Class Corvette


The Bricriu-class (a very hard to remember name) is quite old, but still servicable ship design in CEGA use. It's a bit cramped like a submarine, but you can't have everything, can you?
The ship is made out of 6 sections in total: The main section with the point-defense systems, 4 turret sections (each with either 3 kinetic kill or beam cannons), and of course a drive section.

Tengu-Class Escort Carrier


CEGA's main exo-armor carrier, and quite the succesful and spacious design. Aside from the main section, it has 2 missile tubes, 2 vehicle bays and 2 drive sections.

Athena-Class Destroyer


The newest Jovian destroyer, quite fast and maneuverable for its size. Apart from its main section, it has 2 drive sections, 2 kinetic kill sections and 2 wing sections with oversized laser cannons.

Valiant-Class Strike Carrier


Jovian's most recent carrier ship, this one has comes with a main section, 2 habitat sections (making it quite comfy), 2 kinetic kill cannon sections and 4 drive sections.
And of course, it being a Not-Yamato of sorts, it has a spinal laser that takes a long while to charge up, but has a good chance of one-shotting just about everything it manages to hit.

Ebiiru-Class Cargo Ship


A very old and pragmatic cargo ship, it's essentially a bunch of cargo pods stuck on some crew modules and an engine.

Inari-Class Cargo/Liner Ship


A much nicer looking ship than the Ebiiru, this one carries both cargo and passangers, usually both at the same time because you gotta multitask to make profit in space.

Mule-Class Bulk Tanker


Your standard tanker ship. They're mainly meant for the heroes to protect or destroy.

And for some fanservice, here are female exo-suit pilots in vacuum suits:

Shouldn't the Jovian Falconer pilot have the white suit? That's kinda closer to their general color scheme.

Generally, the designs aren't too shabby, especially the stylish Ryu, the Lancer fighters and those freakish CEGA rocket mechs that are probably some of the most sensible giant robot designs out there (who needs legs in space, anyways?). The Pathfinder is a simple and elegant design, but the Jovians seem to suffer from a serious lack of design variety, as all their exo-armors here look almost identical. And in the end, most exo-armors can't quite keep up with the more interesting/badass Gear aesthetics of DP9's main flagship setting.
And of course, the error-prone writeups leave something to be desired.

That's about all for the book. There's a short Appendix, but that's just a random adventure generator for stereotypical mecha anime episodes. Thankfully, the book is clever enough to note that these are just guidelines.

Overall, the setting's rather servicable as a totally-not-Gundam setting. It however loses some points for painting the factions with too much black and white after starting off talking about grey areas, and Mars really doesn't sound too interesting as they're mainly concerned with their "Cowboys vs East Germans" sub-setting that doesn't offer much synergy with the rest as Mars doesn't have a real military presence in space. It looks like if this cold war turns hot, they'd be at the mercy of whoever has currently the most warships in orbit. Oh well, at least the Venusians are lulzy.
Oh, and the quality of the scan is a bit meh. The pages apear bleached out, at almost every picture has some slight scanlines going on (or whatever you call that).

So, what do you want to see next? Do you wanna see CORE Command, the result of DP9's last RPG staff trying to build a setting from the ground up (without previous editions to copy stuff from)? Or do you want to see something else?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Doresh posted:

Jovian Chronicles Second Edition RPG Player's Handbook


Chapter 7: Mechanical Catalog
Stormrider


This ridiculous fellow is based on a configuration (aka Mekton Command Armor) for the Prometheus prototype exo-armor. Still more or less a prototype itself, the Stormrider has nevertheless shown some promising results.
If the huge particle cannons and the massive thrusters are any indication, the Stormrider's main purpose is that of a fast assault unit. It also comes with a chest-mounted scatter launcher aka shotgun, a ton of missiles (though I'm pretty sure that puny Damage Multiplier of 10 is an error; they typically have 16-30), and a point-defense laser system.
Overall, it doesn't really hit harder than the Vindicator, but it does so faster. Though I was honestly expecting more oomph from those oversized guns (they actually just have improved range over the saner models).

Fury


Taking a cue from the Dragonstriker prototype, this exo-armor is a straight upgrade of the Syreen. It comes with a more advanced laser system geared more towards missile defense than autonomous firing. The shoulders come with 8 hardpoints, making the design very flexible.

Since the standard Fury has lots of empty hardpoints, they fall into one of 3 variants, which are named after the three furies of Greek mythology:

  • Alecto, The Unceasing: The recon model, with better sensors and stuff and recon drones.
  • Megaera, The Grudging: The default model, comes with a shoulder-mounted sniper railgun and missiles for the shoulders.
  • Tsiphone, The Avenging: This one's used to take down ships. It has plenty of room for torpedoes, and it comes with two extra-powerful plasma lances that go through ship hulls like a hot knife through butter.
Sadly, you can't actually use the drones and torpedo bay without the "CHAOS" book.

I guess their artist was a fan of Stardust Memory. The Stormrider up there reminds me of the Dendrobium:

And the Fury resembles the Neue Ziel:

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

The reason that exo-armors are portrayed as "nimbler" is because the linear frame system allows them the pilot to adjust their facing without expending reaction mass by shifting their center of gravity.

Kenlon
Jun 27, 2003

Digitus Impudicus


I've always wanted to do a "Red Storm Rising" sort of game with Jovian Chronicles. The asymmetry between the two major factions lends itself very well to that - the Syreen, iirc, is significantly more competent than it is portrayed in the fluff, and the same goes for the Wraith, providing a perfect place to put unlikely heroes. . .

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Midjack posted:

I guess their artist was a fan of Stardust Memory. The Stormrider up there reminds me of the Dendrobium:

And the Fury resembles the Neue Ziel:


So that's why the Fury looked kinda familiar. I need to watch more Gundam.

And it's a shame East Germany Mars doesn't have a bigger space presence. Every mecha setting can only be improved by grammatically dodgy German.

Kai Tave posted:

The reason that exo-armors are portrayed as "nimbler" is because the linear frame system allows them the pilot to adjust their facing without expending reaction mass by shifting their center of gravity.

Like they do in Gundam? Sure, it saves fuel, but a fightercraft bound by neither humanoid nor aerodynamic design restrictions can be designed to optimize mass and thruster distribution.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Feb 21, 2015

Nullkigan
Jul 3, 2009


The linear frame thing is stupid as gently caress anyway - I think it was one of the technologies The Doctor invented, with the thought-control system being the next extension. I think the Gundam of the setting, the un-statted Prometheus which debuted in the final battle of the Odyssey, was originally the linear frame test bed, which was later ret-con'd to give most current exos linear frames / a reason to exist at all? Older exos still have the same controls as a fighter.

I believe that at one point the reasoning behind exo armour being superior to fighters is that, as a humanoid fighting machine, human reflexes and behaviour are better suited to take the machine to the limits. So crazy martial arts manoeuvres are actually expected of all pilots. You can't reflexively Char Kick in a fighter shuttle. But then there's a nod to harder sci-fi with the CEGA Syreen/Fury and Jovian-Trojan Hephaestus(?) which get rid of legs because legs are stupid in zero-g. In one of the books they explained (and alluded to in one of Doresh’s earlier posts) that the reason exos exist at all is that the Jovians had lots of the big worker suits and retrofitted them for military purposes (Zaku I stlye) when CEGA started to show up – not because the technology was actually any good, and it works only because CEGA’s pilots are mostly earthlings and not used to fighting in space.

Mechanically, Silhouette and SilCore prefer units that don't get hit to ones with armour, especially if you house rule rolling dodge once and letting it stand against all attacks that turn. The net result is that fighters, which can go really fast and thus be hard to hit, are actually pretty good despite having manoeuvrability/dodge penalties.

(All of this is just coming from my horrendous memory, I haven't managed to find my books)

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Jovian Chronicles takes the position that pound for pound the fastest things in a space combat are dedicated fighter craft, but for crazy 3-D maneuvering shenanigans exo-armors are where it's at.

Pussy Cartel
Jun 26, 2011





Lipstick Apathy

Doresh posted:

It however loses some points for painting the factions with too much black and white after starting off talking about grey areas, and Mars really doesn't sound too interesting as they're mainly concerned with their "Cowboys vs East Germans" sub-setting that doesn't offer much synergy with the rest as Mars doesn't have a real military presence in space. It looks like if this cold war turns hot, they'd be at the mercy of whoever has currently the most warships in orbit.

Funnily enough, Chaos Principle (the only Jovian Chronicles adventure published besides the old Mekton books they made) actually covers the whole Cold War gone hot angle, and shows exactly what happens when two mostly-planetbound powers with spacebound allies get into a real fight.

Christ, that adventure was poo poo.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Super happy orbital bombardment time, I guess?

Nullkigan posted:

I believe that at one point the reasoning behind exo armour being superior to fighters is that, as a humanoid fighting machine, human reflexes and behaviour are better suited to take the machine to the limits. So crazy martial arts manoeuvres are actually expected of all pilots. You can't reflexively Char Kick in a fighter shuttle. But then there's a nod to harder sci-fi with the CEGA Syreen/Fury and Jovian-Trojan Hephaestus(?) which get rid of legs because legs are stupid in zero-g. In one of the books they explained (and alluded to in one of Doresh’s earlier posts) that the reason exos exist at all is that the Jovians had lots of the big worker suits and retrofitted them for military purposes (Zaku I stlye) when CEGA started to show up – not because the technology was actually any good, and it works only because CEGA’s pilots are mostly earthlings and not used to fighting in space.

I would wager that adding more abstraction to the Linear Frame's movement data output can give you those human reflexes on a vehicle that does not have to be able to flip the bird and kick stuff. A bit like contemporary motion controls, only much more advanced.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Ironically enough this is basically one of the lines of discussion that led to the Jovian Chronicles mailing list being 90% comprised of people working to "de-mechafy" the game. "This not!Gundam game would be even better/make much more sense without all the not!Gundams, just repurpose the technology and make better fighters."

Like, obviously any justification for giant robots is going to fall apart when you push on it short of actual literal space magic, the problem becomes then that if you can't get over that hurdle then welp, I guess you're not gonna have a giant robot game then. Compounding the issue in this particular instance is that if you strip mecha out of Jovian Chronicles what you're left with isn't honestly all that interesting on its own...the two cold warring superpowers are A). kind of bland and B). separated by long months, if not years, of travel time which means that if you stick to the game's hard sci-fi premise that the whole "cold war goes hot" scenario seems increasingly implausible, and the rest of the game's locales aren't much more exciting. So outside the promise of getting to have robot fights the whole thing feels very "wait, why are we even doing this again?"

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Nullkigan
Jul 3, 2009


Kai Tave posted:

So outside the promise of getting to have robot fights the whole thing feels very "wait, why are we even doing this again?"

I think that this, in addition to the loving awful copy editing, is why I ended up not liking Jovian Chronicles. If the balance of the material produced hadn't decided to meander between hard and soft sci-fi it would have probably bothered me less. This is despite my enjoyment of most things Giant 'Real' Robot.

Even though the Gears are still a little odd from a physics point of view (let's not get started on land ships) and the history factions/politics are a cheap pastiche on the 1920s-1950s, I really like Heavy Gear because I never noticed them really contradicting themselves over the use of Gears.

Core Command is the Gunbuster one, right? Where Heavy Gear = VOTOMS, Jovian Chronicles = Gundam. I've never seen Gunbuster so I'm guessing.

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