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#### Kurieg posted:

I see you down there Foglio, don't think I don't see you.

Isn't that Phil of Phil and Dixie?

#### Pope Guilty posted:

Isn't that Phil of Phil and Dixie?

Phil Foglio has glasses, Phil from Phil and Dixie doesn't. Other than that... yeah, they pretty much just look the same.

Part 1
Part 2

“Any time a PC takes an action that involves a risk, requires concentration, or grace under pressure, it is considered a maneuver and thus requires a Maneuver Roll”

A Maneuver Roll is this game’s term for a skill check/ability check, or any other basic building block for performing a task.

There’s the standard note that dice rolls should only be called for if the task being attempted is dramatic and/or has something valuable at stake.

There are two kinds of Maneuver Rolls: All-or-nothing or percentage rolls.

All-or-nothing is just that - the player rolls 1d100, adds their skill bonus, adds their stat bonus, and wants to get a 101 or better to succeed.

A percentage roll is when the margin of the success or failure can be variable: if the player gets a result of 101-110 when haggling with a merchant, the Maneuver Table describes a +5 bonus, so the GM might say that the player gets a 5% discount. If they get a result of 151-170, the bonus is +30. Similarly, anything below 101 starts imposing a penalty, such as a result of 51-60 resulting in a -25 penalty.

This also applies to rolls where one player might be trying to help another. If Bob wants to, say, use their Trickery skill to try and distract a merchant while Jess uses their Pick Pockets skill to filch the merchant’s coinpurse, the GM might call for Bob to make a percentage roll of their Trickery. Bob gets a 171, which corresponds to a bonus of +40, so when Jess makes their Pick Pockets roll, they can use that +40.

In that example I just made up, Trickery is actually classified as an All-or-nothing skill, but depending on the context, it can also be made to apply as a percentage.

Percentages is also where the “open-ended” feature of their die rolling mechanic comes in: if the die roll is a natural 96 to 100, then the player adds that to a running total and rolls again, and keeps on rolling and racking up the running total as long as they keep rolling 96 to 100s. The Maneuver Table describes roll results of up to 301+ for this.

As I mentioned before, the GM can also apply circumstantial modifiers: +60 for a “routine” task, +40, +20, then a -20 penalty for a “hard” task, -40, -60, -80 for “sheer folly” and -100 for “absurd”

The game also supports using skills “untrained”, which simply imposes a -25 penalty if you attempt a skill that you have 0 ranks in.

Tasks that are unsupported by any skills/raw ability checks can be rolled for by using twice the stat bonus of the stat being tested. So if our example character, Athan, with his 79(+6) Strength, wanted to push a boulder out of the way, the roll would be 1d100+12. It seems like this would be quite difficult though without circumstantial bonuses as a large proportion of the climb to 100 is done via the skill bonuses.

There are also a couple of “GM’s Option” sidebars here:

* Round off any numbers to the nearest 5 to make the math easier
* If a roll just misses succeeding by 10 or less, like a 98, the GM can allow a second roll with a +20 bonus with a small expenditure of additional time/round
* If the roll is a natural 66, the result should be special/exceptional/unusual

Opposed rolls and basic spellcasting

The classic opposed roll is the someone sneaking and someone trying to detect them. In this game, it’s a 2-step look-up on the Maneuver Table:

1. The sneaker makes a Stalking & Hiding roll, and it produces a corresponding Resistance Roll to beat. A result of 31-40 will give an RR of 75, a result of 81-90 will give an RR of 100, and a result of 151-170 will give an RR of 160.
2. The victim could then make a Perception roll, and they need to beat the RR number to detect the sneaker.

Spellcasting works the same way: the caster makes a roll using the corresponding skill of their spell, that produces an RR number that the target must beat with a roll from their Resistance skill.

As an example, Arcane Bolt is a spell that deals 1d10 damage to a target if they fail their Magic Resistance roll. If Athan had 4 ranks in that and tried to cast it, he’d roll a 1d100+20 (Athan’s Self Discipline and Reasoning have a +0 bonus, so it’s just +20 from 4 ranks). He gets a 26, which on the Maneuver Table corresponds to an RR of 70. His target then makes a 1d100 + Magic Resistance skill roll and needs to get a 70 or better. If they don’t, they get hit for 1d10 damage.

This is why the skill section recommends at least 1 rank in all the Resistance skills, because otherwise you get hit with a -25 penalty in trying to resist anything.

It’s a bit more complicated than the basic resolution, but if I’m not mistaken Chaosium uses a similar kind of “Resistance Table” for comparing the relative skill numbers of any two opposing characters to give you a single target number to roll under, so it’s not unprecedented. The game does tell you to take photocopies of the Maneuver Table’s page so that everyone can do look-ups.

With regards to “utility” spells, or what we might call buffs, you need a minimum spellcasting roll of 71 or better for it to be cast correctly/effectively. However, if you get 151 or better, then you get a “Double” result and you can double either the range, duration or number of affected targets for free. 201 or better and you can double two of these properties. 261 or better than one of these properties can be tripled. So if you were to cast Minor Healing and you got a 265, it would heal 75% of your target’s damage instead of just 25%.

Failure and Fumbles

1. If you’re making an all-or-nothing Maneuver roll and you get a modified result 100 or less, you fail.
2. If you’re making a percentage Maneuver roll and you get a modified result of 10 or less, you fail and impose/receive a hefty penalty
3. If you’re casting a Utility spell and you get a modified result of 70 or less, you fail. The Power Points are expended, but the spell fizzles and nothing happens.
4. If you’re casting any other kind of spell (such as an attack spell) and you get a modified result of 10 or less, you fail. Even an 11 would go off, even though the Resistance Roll would be just a 65.

Now, if you get a natural 0 to 10, then it is a Fumble. There is a Fumble table where you roll a 1d100 and cross-reference it with the kind of activity/skill category you were attempting. Some examples:

Influence skill fumble - you accidentally make a high pitched noise as you try to begin
Combat skill fumble - you give yourself a minor wound. Take 1d10 hits. Remember, the pointy end faces the enemy!
Mental skill fumble - In the words of a great philosopher, “Doh!” Not only do you not remember anything pertinent, but you actually spout off incorrect information without realizing it!
Spellcasting fumble - Wow! You just invented the x-ray! Unfortunately, you also knock yourself out and take a 1d100 on the Electricity Critical Table from the magical energy feedback.

And this is where the RoleMaster influence really starts to shine - there’s a footnote at the bottom of the Fumble table:

#### quote:

Note: It is important to tailor the fumble to the event. While a fumble is unfortunate, it is not necessarily certain death.

And while I don’t know (yet) if such a similar caution exists in actual RoleMaster, at least they’re cognizant of the whole “an improbable series of die rolls leads to a character dying of a head wound all because they wanted to ride a horse” that the system is infamous for.

The section then covers rules on

* Breaking objects
* Light and vision
* Movement rates across various kinds of terrain
* Blind-fighting and fighting invisible targets (the play example demonstrates the player throwing a bag of flour to partially discern an invisible assassin, the GM awarding a bonus to the player’s Perception roll because of it, then a percentage Perception roll determining the bonus or penalty to the player’s attack)
* Fighting in darkness, fog, rain and other limited-visibility situations - what amounts to a penalty on all attacks and Maneuver rolls: -20 for starlight, -5 for light rain, etc
* Falling damage
* Traps
* Swimming and drowning
* Quicksand
* Starvation and thirst - take an RR 100 Stamina Resistance roll if you’re starving or dehydrated, or take two if both. A failure imposes a cumulative -10 penalty on everything, and you’re dead by -100
* Extreme heat and cold - you start taking damage past 54 degrees Celsius, or below -18 degrees.

There’s also a section on Death and Dying, but I’ll tackle that when we get to the Combat section, which is up next!

Next: Combat rules!

#### Pope Guilty posted:

Someone please fix that robot. Her torso is sliding off!

It’s my understanding that in RoleMaster, they have look-up tables down to the individual weapon, and that the tables are much much larger/specific/potentially lethal.

Correct.

It's been called "Rulemaster" for a reason.

That said, it's not as bad as it looks. IIRC, the columns represent the armor type of your opponent (where 1 is unarmored and 20 the maximum) and the rows are your modified to-hit roll.

Suppose you hit someone wearing heavy leather (Armor Type 10), and your modified attack roll is 97. Cross-referencing your roll with the '10' column you get the result "14CK", which means the guy you just hit with your two-handed sword takes 14 hits as well as a C-type Krush critical hit.

(Crits are rated from A to F, with F being the most severe. They're also further classified into damage types, slashing, piercing, crushing, etc. Can't recall why they used a K instead of a C for crushing, but it might have to do with not confusing the damage type with the crit severity.)

Been years since I attempted to play RM, so I might have missed a step or two.

Comrade Koba fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Aug 17, 2015

 gradenko_2000 Oct 5, 2010 HELL SERPENT Lipstick Apathy That's certainly something. The other thing I've heard of is that RoleMaster began as just that "Arms Law" book, and that it was supposed to be a ... replacement? for the combat system of other RPGs (read: D&D). Is that true? Were there people who actually did that? # ? Aug 17, 2015 14:41

(Crits are rated from A to F, with F being the most severe. They're also further classified into damage types, slashing, piercing, crushing, etc. Can't recall why they used a K instead of a C for crushing, but it might have to do with not confusing the damage type with the crit severity.)

Been years since I attempted to play RM, so I might have missed a step or two.

That's pretty much it, but not quite on the crit ratings. Crits are typically rated A to E, from least to most severe. All the crit tables reflect this, all of them. Except, of course, wizards can go ~off the charts~ and inflict F, G, H, I and even J, crits. These superior, wizardly crits inflict the top-level E crit, then one or even two additional crits rising in severity from A to D based on the original crit's severity.

It's not particularly hard to get I crits, either, because it's just the normal top 150-result from a wizard attack table, and your Offensive Bonus for those grows roughly on par with non-wizards' weapon skills. The main barrier is just getting the right spell, because your standard Fire Bolt caps out at normal E crits, Ice Bolt only goes up to like a G, but Lightning Bolt is where it's at, because once you hit 111+ on your attack it's mostly F and G crits and it goes all the way to J. Plus these spells are nearly all ranged, so your target can't parry them for poo poo, which is the main tool everyone has for avoiding death.

EDIT: This combines well with how they overhauled spell acquisition and magic points in later editions of Rolemaster, where you get more and easier. Just like D&D!

That's certainly something.

The other thing I've heard of is that RoleMaster began as just that "Arms Law" book, and that it was supposed to be a ... replacement? for the combat system of other RPGs (read: D&D). Is that true? Were there people who actually did that?

Pretty much. They had most or all of a whole system rewrite because that's how they rolled, but it was a mound of house rules in their closets or wherever they kept it. The first products they released were Arms Law, Claw Law and Spell Law to replace, well, all the most important parts of D&D, but there were already elements of the baroque skill and GM systems peeking out.

The original crit tables were entirely hand-written and then photocopied for layout. Whoever did those had pretty good penmanship, considering.

EDIT: On the topic of HARP, I like a lot of what they seemed to be reaching for, but it was close enough to Rolemaster without having the fun crit charts that it was mostly a sad D&D-alike for me. The way they did spell-boosting options for more MP was really cool, though I don't remember if that was in the core or the Colleges of Magic supplement.

That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Aug 17, 2015

 gradenko_2000 Oct 5, 2010 HELL SERPENT Lipstick Apathy The spell boosting options are in the core book, and there's a "Hack and Slash" supplement that has more RoleMaster-y look-up tables: # ? Aug 17, 2015 15:16
 That Old Tree Jun 24, 2012 nah Yep. There was also a middle-child Martial Combat supplement that I think made everyone slightly depressed. Hack & Slash came out way after I passed on the system. # ? Aug 17, 2015 15:19

#### Plague of Hats posted:

EDIT: On the topic of HARP, I like a lot of what they seemed to be reaching for, but it was close enough to Rolemaster without having the fun crit charts that it was mostly a sad D&D-alike for me.

This, I think, is why HARP never got very popular. It's essentially Rolemaster Lite, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing, I doubt that the concept attracted many players. The ones who enjoy extensive crit chats and detailed descriptions of exactly how your foe gets mutilated stick with Rolemaster, while the ones who don't probably just keep playing D&D.

MERP, the "predecessor" to HARP, at least had Middle Earth and all the Tolkien-based lore going for it. HARP has...a decent system and a pretty nice core book, but that's about it.

EDIT: While we're on the topic, maybe someone could write a post on the history of Rolemaster and its various editions? From what I understand both the system and the publisher have been through some rough times.

Comrade Koba fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Aug 17, 2015

EDIT: While we're on the topic, maybe someone could write a post on the history of Rolemaster and its various editions? From what I understand both the system and the publisher have been through some rough times.

This might be fun to do. (And if it's a single post I might actually finish it! ) Also, it might just be me paraphrasing Designers & Dragons with some added color commentary. (Do not let this expressed interest stop anyone else more motivated/qualified from doing it first.)

#### Plague of Hats posted:

This might be fun to do. (And if it's a single post I might actually finish it! )

Sweet.

I don't think more than a single post is called for. A short history of ICE and RM would be perfectly adequate, no one's expecting a detailed Let's Read of every single edition.

Sweet.

I don't think more than a single post is called for. A short history of ICE and RM would be perfectly adequate, no one's expecting a detailed Let's Read of every single edition.

Oh yeah, no. Still, I would want to be relatively thorough, plus I have ~opinions~ about some things.

#### Plague of Hats posted:

plus I have ~opinions~ about some things.

Wouldn't have it any other way.

 Hostile V May 31, 2013 Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice. IOU looks pretty neat and is shaping up towards being my default engine if I ever run a China, Il. game. # ? Aug 17, 2015 16:42

Part III: Pirates and Imperial Armada.
Welcome back to this F&F of Freebooter's Fate: Deep Jungle. Today, I'll be talking about the new crew options for the Pirates and the Imperial Armada – there's a lot less here now than there was in the initial book, so I'm going to try and cover two Crews per post now. So, let's see where the storyline has gone.

The Pirates have had a banner year – they've successfully taken over Longfall, kicked out the Empire, and have been living well off of their new city. Unfortunately, tensions are running high as the individual Captains attempt to set themselves atop the new status quo. There's also the trouble of all the Amazons showing up and keeping them from hitting the Empire in their jungle fallback point, so things aren't perfect for the crews. So, with all that said, let's talk about the new Leaders the Pirates have available.

Regicide Alvarez is introduced aboard her ship, the Sierpe alongside her crew. She's just purchased a new gun, and when some seawater gets into the mechanisms, she decides to fix it herself. When a new crew member asks why everyone is suddenly nervous, he's enlightened as to Regicide's rather heated temper – various stories of the mechanical devices that have succumb to her wrath are legendary among the crew, and anyone dumb enough to try and get her to calm down is pretty much suicidal. The list of things that piss her off is quite extensive – including people mispronouncing her name, which has led to quite a few barroom deaths. The best option is to find something to fight, point her in the right direction, and pray that the loot is good enough to improve her temper.

Pictured – anger.

As far as leaders, she's the standard Pirate – good toughness, skilled in melee and at range, and capable of handing out orders. Until she gets injured, that is – when that happens, she gets to recheck morale if she fails a test, gains strength and toughness, and is generally a horrifying monster in melee. She's pretty middle-of-the-road, although having a plan to get her closer to the enemy before she takes an injury is a good tactical idea.

Barco Malcaduco is the other leader available to the Pirates. If Regicide scares people with her anger, Barco scares people because he's a half-dead wreck of a man who was so notorious his crew was scared to finish him off when he was set on fire, lost an arm and an eye, and was crushed under a heavy rock, instead choosing to maroon him on an island. Rather than waiting for death, he chose revenge, and hunted down the mutineers before reclaiming his ship, his crew, and his hat.

Not a fan of the sculpt or the official paint-job, but a pretty cool concept.

Barco has replaced his missing hand with a giant pistol – closer to a rifle in stats, mind – and is terrifying in melee and at range. Due to his injuries, anyone getting into melee with him has to resist the urge to flee from the apparently half-dead spirit of vengeance bearing down on him, but as a disadvantage, he loses access to the Aim action, thanks to his missing eye. He's also so well-known among the scum of Longfall that any crew can hire an extra specialist or mercenary beyond what they'd normally be allowed.

Now, let's talk Specialists. The pirates get two this time around.

Ex-Captain Jack is a living symbol of why Pirates shouldn't get old. Half-blind, missing both legs, and carrying a mummified parrot on his shoulder, he's only got a tenuous grasp on reality, the things happening around him, and frequently believes that he's dealing with people who have been dead for a long time or may never have existed in the first place. His introductory fiction shows him barreling through a wall, angrily confronting the hapless dockworker he believes to be at least three different people over the course of the conversation, and then wandering off again, leaving only a shattered wall and a dockworker swearing that, no matter how much rum it took, he'd drink enough to forget this had ever happened.

I love this crazy bastard.

Ex-Captain Jack can barely move – relying on random distance every time he wants to move, can randomly be controlled by your opponent, and may suddenly gain the ability to actually be effective in combat. He's got a heavy pistol, which he's not particularly good with, but at the same time, he's cheaper than most Deckhands to hire, so he can be a decent choice to fill out a crew if you're desperate.

Casimeere Flynn is the perfect image of a gentleman pirate. Always impeccably dressed, freshly groomed, and courteous to a fault, he's like something out of a terrible romance novel, especially given his tendency for theatrics. He's managed some ridiculous feats – stories tell of him managing to take a whole passel of noblemen's wives hostage with just some charm, and he's avoided pissing off the numerous male pirates who would normally eat a prissy boy like Flynn for lunch. In the fiction introducing him, he's joining the crew of Blanche Pascal, who notes the favorable effect he has on her crew and even considers taking advantage of him. It's the classic ”Roguish pirate” from the golden days of Hollywood brought to the table.

This is a terrible sculpt. I'm not really a fan of the concept art either, but it's just so stiff and awkward-looking.

While he's a bit expensive for his abilities, he's got the standard pirate loadout of a sword and a pistol, along with some average abilities. Notably, however, is his ability to Parry – remember the combat resolution mechanic? Well, if your opponent manages to get a hit, Parry allows you to force them to randomly replace the hit with an unused location card, making it a lot easier to keep him alive in melee.

That's it for the Pirates, so let's talk about the Imperial Armada. They're in dire straits these days – they've been forced into the jungles, and their best Captains are still trying to rejoin the main forces. Fortunately, there's some help from the mainland, as some new equipment loadouts and troops have been sent to retake Longfall, but it may be a case of too little, too late – the wars on the mainland are occupying most of their time. With that said, let's see the new Leader for the Armada.

Jarrõno is what Pratchett would refer to as ”God's gift to the enemy”. He's the Gobernador's nephew, a righteous fop who was sent to Leonera for a chance to get his first taste of command. He's not exactly this generation's finest tactical mind – being one of the many signs that the Empire's insistence that officers come from the finest of noble stock, the sum total of his military education is distilled thusly:

#### Deep Jungle 42 posted:

“So, what did you learn at the Academy?” the Gobernador asked, desperate to find some shred of evidence that the decision he was being forced to make could be justified.
“Oh,” said Jarrõno, eyes alight at the mention of a topic which obviously was dear to his heart, “a lot of useful things, actually. Where to find the best drinking establishments, which boutiques carried the latest fashions, how to dress like a proper gentleman, how to deal with servants, how best to recover from a radishing when you’ve lost a bet. And, of course, how to get lucky with the ladies. Fnar fnar . . . Oh, there were some stuffy men talking about militar whatnots and pushing little men around in sandboxes and stuff. One did not pay any attention to them, that kind of thing was strictly for oiks and peasants.”
I love this guy. Finally, his uncle dismisses him, as Jarrõno, ”the walking accident in a lace doily and watercolour factory,” plans to design his new uniform.

For stats, Jarrõno is a first amongst leaders – he's got no authority whatsoever. If he's part of a crew, you'll need lieutenants or sergeants to handle the actual giving of orders and inspiring of the troops – he's just too important for all that stuff. He's got a parrying sword, a dueling pistol, and the ability to bestow his personal favor on one of your troops in the form of a well-made weapon. Because of his familial connections, he can also afford to outfit an Honour Guard – Marines gain the Parry ability for an increased hire fee. He's basically a joke leader, but makes room for hiring specialists and deckhands.

I loving love his concept art – seriously, look at that pug!

I'm also including his concept art, because it's amazing and it's a goddamn crime that the pug wasn't included on his official miniature. If he came with the pug, I'd be running Imperial Armada under Jarrõno all the time.

The new Imperial Specialists are Ahondaros, who apparently come from the game's version of Australia, spending most of their time smoking, cooking meat, drinking beer, and digging incredibly complicated fortifications with criminally unsafe amounts of gunpowder. Thanks to their skill at turning bits of the jungle into rather less jungle and the quick building of fortifications, they're a little outside the usual field of discipline, to say the least.

While they're not exactly super-useful in a fight, having only their pickaxe to work with, they let you destroy one item of scenery after everything's been placed, replacing it with a pile of rubble. They can't destroy anything that's scenario-specific and, as a further clarification, refuse to destroy anything that might be a pub. They can also place terrain on the field, erecting barricades out of whatever's handy (typically: debris, cursing, and dirt), letting you build on-the-fly terrain on the field. They're drat useful pieces for ensuring you've got good cover for your gunfighters.

The Imperial Armada also gains a new Deckhand – the Asatores, whose weapons have been modified with a bayonet and sawed down slightly for better handling in the jungle. They've gained access to the Assault Shot skill, can make a rather damaging charge with their bayonets, and can shoot nearly as far as an Arquebusier.

That's it for the Pirates and the Armada. Next time, I'll cover new crew for the Goblin Pirates and the Brotherhood, both of whom gain some cool new options,as well as the sole Mercenary made available in this book.

 Bieeanshee Aug 21, 2000 Not keen on keening. Grimey Drawer It always amused me that IOU's 'No Insurance' disadvantage was basically a reskin of the equally silly 'Terminally Ill' in its worst form, which meant your character was going to irrevocably die really goddamn soon. # ? Aug 17, 2015 18:05

#### Bieeardo posted:

It always amused me that IOU's 'No Insurance' disadvantage was basically a reskin of the equally silly 'Terminally Ill' in its worst form, which meant your character was going to irrevocably die really goddamn soon.

"No Insurance" is worth -100 points, and "Super Luck" is worth +100 points, sooooooooooo...

 Bieeanshee Aug 21, 2000 Not keen on keening. Grimey Drawer Ah, but Super Luck only fires once a real-time hour! ...which means you'll have to entertainingly filibuster rolls, hide people's dice, and keep the GM distracted until the next time you can use it! # ? Aug 17, 2015 19:04

#### Bieeardo posted:

Ah, but Super Luck only fires once a real-time hour!

...which means you'll have to entertainingly filibuster rolls, hide people's dice, and keep the GM distracted until the next time you can use it!

And that is IOU as gently caress.

#### Plague of Hats posted:

The tables have spoken.

It's been called "Rulemaster" for a reason.

"Rollmaster" might be a nother candidate.

(I'm surprised there is no modifier based on the exact length, mass and weight distribution. Though maybe there is.)

#### Doresh posted:

(I'm surprised there is no modifier based on the exact length, mass and weight distribution. Though maybe there is.)

Depending on the edition and specific rules you're using, you can get almost all of that going on. There are reach modifiers for both the attack roll and for initiative rolls, charging can switch things up, and I'm pretty sure one of the Rolemaster Companions had poo poo about hand placement. There's also a fan supplement from the ancient mid- or late-90's internet where some dude went absolutely crazy with adding even more detail, and action points and splitting five-phase combat into individual percentages of activity per phase and oh my god

 Halloween Jack Sep 12, 2003 La morte non ha sesso I've never given Rolemaster more than a glance, so pardon/correct me if the following complaint doesn't apply: The problem I have with most "tactically detailed" combat rules is that they are rarely very tactical. As in, they don't give you much in the way of choices to make in combat, as opposed in preparation for combat. You can design combat rules where weapons vary in reach, initiative, base damage, critical damage potential, armor penetration ( and specifically against different types of armor), modifiers to parrying (and specifically against different weapons), and so on. However, I notice most combat rulesets make it impractical to change your weapons and armor in the middle of combat. The result of this is that players will spend a long time reading the books, and consider very carefully what weapons and armor to take with them when they go adventuring. But when fighting breaks out, the optimal "tactic" is to hope you win initiative, then just hack/blast away and hope the other guy drops first. Again, depending on the game, this also holds true for rules about dodging and finding cover, unless your goal is to run away. I first got a taste of this in Shadowrun (2nd and 3rd editions). When deciding what weapons to take with you, the tradeoff was between stealth and stopping power. Once combat started, the best gun was the one currently in your hand. On the other hand, D&D 4 has very detailed rules for combat, but none of it is in service to anybody's notion of realism. It's about having tactical choices, sometimes at the expense of physics-engine notions of realism. # ? Aug 17, 2015 22:10
 theironjef Aug 11, 2009 The archmage of unexpected stinks. Speaking as someone who own the Palladium Compendium of Contemporary Weapons, I can agree that a book that has 200 guns is basically just a Where's Waldo minigame to find the one gun that matters. # ? Aug 17, 2015 22:13

#### theironjef posted:

Speaking as someone who own the Palladium Compendium of Contemporary Weapons, I can agree that a book that has 200 guns is basically just a Where's Waldo minigame to find the one gun that matters.

I remember both the original Spycraft Modern Arms Guide and the D20 Modern Modern Arms Guide are basically a parade of 'This pistol does 2d8 damage but we swear it's different mechanically from the other 80 pistols of its caliber that all do the same damage with the same range.'

#### pkfan2004 posted:

IOU looks pretty neat and is shaping up towards being my default engine if I ever run a China, Il. game.

I love IOU, but if you ever get serious about it, I have a few suggestions;

• Combine skills a la Science!. Have Social Studies! or English! or whatever. It makes handling classes easier and reduces the skills your characters have to take, which is nice.
• Go easy on combat. GURPS combat has like six steps per attack, so cut out everything that's unnecessary; no combat effects except maybe Knockback, damage types removed, remove Active Defenses, stuff like that. Make combat as simple and cinematic as possible to fit the theme
• Don't follow GURPS damage rules exactly, that poo poo is unnecessary. Did Brunhildulon the Space Valkyrie fall off a building? According to the core book, you need to calculate velocity and mass to get your fall damage, complete with a calculator to handle the square roots. Just handwave anything that you can't recall from the rules. You might want to just do this anyway, though.

I could go on, but I think I'm just going to recommend you convert it FATE or a similar system instead of houseruling the system into oblivion. I love GURPS to death (it's how I got into RPGs), but it's the wrong system for IOU.

 Comrade Koba Jul 2, 2007 Speaking of Rolemaster, it has the best illustration of the Bard class ever created: # ? Aug 17, 2015 23:23
 Bieeanshee Aug 21, 2000 Not keen on keening. Grimey Drawer FAE or PDQ works really well for IOU, in my experience. GURPS basically gives you an excuse to pile on obnoxious disadvantages, which is its own fun in setting. I'm guessing TOON would be pretty hand-in-glove too. # ? Aug 17, 2015 23:26

Speaking of Rolemaster, it has the best illustration of the Bard class ever created:

Huh. I know I've seen that artist's stuff before but I'm damned if I can remember the name.

#### Night10194 posted:

I remember both the original Spycraft Modern Arms Guide and the D20 Modern Modern Arms Guide are basically a parade of 'This pistol does 2d8 damage but we swear it's different mechanically from the other 80 pistols of its caliber that all do the same damage with the same range.'
Twilight:2000 did that too. A half-dozen fully illustrated weapons catalogs, where you could choose between dozens of assault rifles that did the same damage at the same range, with slightly different weights and magazine sizes.

 Pope Guilty Nov 6, 2006 The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty. I like GURPS IOU and GURPS Illuminati, and I like some of the strictly fluff/creative work that's come out of SJG, but I hate, hate hate the GURPS system and think it's crap. Universal systems are a terrible idea IMO. # ? Aug 18, 2015 00:10

#### Pope Guilty posted:

I like GURPS IOU and GURPS Illuminati, and I like some of the strictly fluff/creative work that's come out of SJG, but I hate, hate hate the GURPS system and think it's crap. Universal systems are a terrible idea IMO.

Could you please elaborate a little? I like GURPS because of the sheer flesibility it promises and the detail and work put in the supplements, but I must admit I have not played it enough to be' sure that it delivers.

Different opinions are good for the brain.

paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Aug 18, 2015

#### Pope Guilty posted:

I like GURPS IOU and GURPS Illuminati, and I like some of the strictly fluff/creative work that's come out of SJG, but I hate, hate hate the GURPS system and think it's crap. Universal systems are a terrible idea IMO.

Absolutely this with the GURPS hate. I am an old school grog (I have a Scarlet 'G' as my avatar to prove it) and I loath the GURPS ruleset. It is horrible to run and cumbersome to make characters. The sourcebooks on the other hand are fantastic as gaming reference.

Could you please elaborate a little? I like GURPS because of the sheer flesibility it promises and the detail and work put in the supplements, but I must admit I have not played it enough to be' sure that it delivers.

Different opinions are good for the brain.

For IOU, at least, it's far too finicky and dense and anti-cinematic to really work for proper goofiness and weird poo poo. IMO, GURPS is at its best when you really want to be tracking nitty-gritty details.