Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




LatwPIAT posted:

CthulhuTech

Having looked at it, it's a generic not-very-good system.

Character creation is done through a mix of package purchases and point-buy.

There's a pretty long skill list. 45 skills, 10 of which are field skills with freeform fields. The game still mocks you for taking Hobby 5 or Trivia 5.

It has an Advantages/Disadvantages system, with the usual problems:

There are White Wolf-style Stereotypes.

It still uses Poker Dice.

Night10194 posted:

Poker dice is one of the clearest 'Look we need a clever dice mechanic, I don't care if it actually works' situations I've ever seen in gaming.'

unseenlibrarian posted:

See, I always figured it as the spiritual successor of early-mid nineties White Wolf.
I've decided that the cardinal sin most games commit is simply being derivative and boring. The hobby is full of cargo cult design. There are tons of D&D ripoffs, and ripoffs for pretty much any really successful game published pre-2000, but I think CthulhuTech fits a certain model of game design that is all over the place, but remains nameless when it's not being conflated with White Wolf's games.

The 90s and 00s produced many games that follow this basic model: Characters have Attributes and Skills, usually rated 1-5 or 1-6. There's a dice-based resolution system that combines an Attribute and a Skill for a total which is somehow compared to a difficulty number. The resolution mechanics can be wildly different between games, but they all tend to work with an Attribute/Skill divide and a low numerical cap. (Often it seems like the designers just wanted to have a unique resolution mechanic to make their game stand out, without playtesting or even thinking very hard about how the probabilities worked out. One of the few merits of these systems is that it's fairly easy to convert between them.) Bolted onto this uninspired but functional system, there's often poorly-considered Advantages/Disadvantages rules, a magic system, and a combat subsystem. If the designer isn't a lazy dolt, there might actually be a subsystem for other genre-appropriate things like car chases.

Most people will call this the White Wolf model, but West End arguably did it earlier, and a lot of the games I'm talking about are far afield from the World of Darkness as far as subject matter is concerned. You can lump Unisystem and LUG's ICON system into this model as well. Even today, they still come out, both as free games, self-published games, and high production value releases like CthulhuTech.

These games aren't necessarily bad, either. I like some D6 and Unisystem games,. But they tend to come bundled with a lot of unexamined assumptions, just like D&D heartbreakers. And just like fantasy heartbreakers, it seems the designers often did not even consider the possibility of doing things differently.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 15, 2015

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

LornMarkus
Nov 8, 2011



Lurks With Wolves posted:

I can see what you meant, in that case. Wasn't as clear as it probably should have been, but I see what you meant.

Also, on a similar note to Night's comments about Bretonnia, I really like how Legends of the Wulin handles women. You see, wuxia traditionally doesn't exactly have the best gender dynamics and it would have been really easy for them to go "this is a quasi-historical setting, things suck for women, deal with it". Instead, they had a whole section of the book talk about women in China in the time periods wuxia cribs off of and they give you a few disadvantages like "everyone thinks of me as a woman and not as a warrior" and "everyone thinks of me as a warrior and not as a woman". And if you don't take those disadvantages, congratulations, you don't have to deal with that kind of sexism because you didn't put "I want to deal with that kind of sexism" on your sheet, the same way your GM would be an rear end in a top hat if they had your character be constantly hunted by the army if you didn't write "Disadvantage: I am wanted by the army" on your sheet. It's just something that more RPGs should do.

Yup, apologies for that.

And yeah, along with having an explicit section elsewhere that says, that the Wulin community literally is a world apart from the non-martial community and has different rules. Sexism is the exception, not the rule.

Edit: To add to that, I still also really like the inclusion of the Virtues (Chivalrous and Selfish). Just a really cool way to quantify out what you're interested in doing for the DM, and even includes a sidenote that having a low Virtue doesn't have to mean that you're an awful person in that regard.

LornMarkus fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Sep 15, 2015

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



Plague of Hats posted:

I had to pause and go to the store in the middle of this episode, and it completely lost me. That usually doesn't happen with podcasts. This game sounds amazing.

It was like that reading it, too. We've had this book for months, and every time you try to read it, your brain just immediately tries to escape. It's this mix of pretentious, boring, and backwards that just scares your mind into retreat.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Mr.Misfit posted:

You forgot to tell them about the size of Wege der Zauberei.

You see, itīs not just a rules update from TDE 4.0 to 4.1. Itīs also a tool to murder people by throwing the book at them because it sits at 433 pages of a hardcover book with rather nice quality pages but big as hell.

Don't forget that the actual spells come in their own hardcover, which is 300ish pages long. And people complained about 6th edition Hero System.

As a comparison, the 3rd edition boxed set contained all the arcane and divine rules, split among two thin softcovers and two neat pocket books, all totalling 500 pages.

quote:

Also, the white mages/grey mage/black mage are more akin to "Lawful Stupid/Uncaring Egotist/Megalomaniacal", as far as I remember the Greyguild for example is not so much a collection of people that like to hang out with druids and stuff but rather people who donīt wish to follow a) all the rules (like white mages) and b) may care about people (unlike black mages). Or because the school they are coming from simply doesnīt care.

They're basically the magical hippies of the setting. Or vikings, as that one Thorwalian school is grey as well (which also explains their "screw the dress code" attitude)

quote:

And Drakonia is indeed awesome, because itīs less of a Hogwarts and more of a AVATAR-THE LAST ELEMENTAL BENDER school of kind because you get people who simply donīt know or care about the outside world (the game enforces this with handicaps which suck donkey balls) and all the elements are kind of worshipped there. Also these were the guys that basically walked out into the world after a 100 years of self-inflicted isolation into the great continental mage meetup and basically fireballed their admission into the event because they kept up magic that had been lost for centuries. Sadly, starting as one of these guys is hella expensive and as such your character will have handicaps the length of a common mafiosi rap sheet (Ok, so I have brittle bones, am a spirit receptacle, are as curious as a 2-year-old chihauha and have about the same level of phobia, also I fear several different things as if they were deadly to me, among them water and of course I have a true name handicap [meaning you can be magically controlled if someone knows] and for those last few points...oh, letīs take something really stupid....erhh.....oh, I know, I am also a couch-potato, because that is always fun with the penalties attached...)

I'm just more familiar with Harry Potter. Avatar probably does work better with all the elemental stuff.

And don't forget to add plenty of levels in Arrogance. That's at least not quite as crippling as some of the other stuff if you don't plan on being the party's face.

mycot posted:

I love your suggestion of Medieval Witch Iron Man.

And Baba Stark wouldn't even be the most batshit insane thing that has ever flown over Aventuria. I'll cover that piece of lore when I talk about my favorite metaplot NPC.

Nessus posted:

I actually think these various Mythos-huffin' mash up settings would be better if they mostly played it straight, perhaps with a suggestive fluff element or two, until the Big Encounter that starts making poo poo seriously weird. GURPS's Cthulhupunk book did this with their take on their house Cyberpunk setting, and you could just as easily do it with something like Macross or whatever. Hell, I think Macross even has such creatures around. Just start making a question of why, exactly, it is that warbling pop singers have such power...

Do Macross 7's space vampire elves count as Eldritch abominations?

unseenlibrarian posted:

Apparently the plan is to go all FFG and have a Tager RPG, a Mecha RPG and a...gently caress if I know, wizards and psychics vs. spies RPG?

Expect each of these core books to be released under a different publisher.

LatwPIAT posted:

Honestly, the adverse reaction people sometimes have to any implication of rape in CthulhuTech feels a bit like an over-reaction. The issue shouldn't be that it's mentioned, but rather that it's treated so lightly and used almost exclusively for edgy shock value. Acknowledging that, sometimes, people do horrible things in times of war - especially wars of genocide - should not really be a mark against CthulhuTech.

It's not like D&D has an entire playable race of "damaged goods" in the half-orcs. Doesn't make the CthulhuTech writers any more talented, though.

theironjef posted:



We read Fantasy Wargaming: The Highest Level of All. This one might really be the first heartbreaker. If you want something that combines long rambling speeches about the importance of nobility, casual disdain for "women's lib," and big timecubey style rules, you should rush out and buy this. It'll be around a dollar.

Hey, I've actually heard about that one before. That's a first when it comes to these heartbreakers.

Lurks With Wolves posted:

I can see what you meant, in that case. Wasn't as clear as it probably should have been, but I see what you meant.

Also, on a similar note to Night's comments about Bretonnia, I really like how Legends of the Wulin handles women. You see, wuxia traditionally doesn't exactly have the best gender dynamics and it would have been really easy for them to go "this is a quasi-historical setting, things suck for women, deal with it". Instead, they had a whole section of the book talk about women in China in the time periods wuxia cribs off of and they give you a few disadvantages like "everyone thinks of me as a woman and not as a warrior" and "everyone thinks of me as a warrior and not as a woman". And if you don't take those disadvantages, congratulations, you don't have to deal with that kind of sexism because you didn't put "I want to deal with that kind of sexism" on your sheet, the same way your GM would be an rear end in a top hat if they had your character be constantly hunted by the army if you didn't write "Disadvantage: I am wanted by the army" on your sheet. It's just something that more RPGs should do.


I think Xin does go for the "being a women in ancient Chinese society sucks balls" angle, quickly followed by "just become a knight errant and hang out with all the other cool Wuxia dudes who live outside ancient Chinese society, which more or less sucked for everyone anyways".

Doresh fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 15, 2015

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


LornMarkus posted:

Yup, apologies for that.

And yeah, along with having an explicit section elsewhere that says, that the Wulin community literally is a world apart from the non-martial community and has different rules. Sexism is the exception, not the rule.

Edit: To add to that, I still also really like the inclusion of the Virtues (Chivalrous and Selfish). Just a really cool way to quantify out what you're interested in doing for the DM, and even includes a sidenote that having a low Virtue doesn't have to mean that you're an awful person in that regard.

If only there weren't so many bits and pieces to it, I'd probably understand the game enough to run it rather than depend on a GM that'll never materialize for the game to teach it.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


A lot of this stuff sounds like I'd enjoy this Wulin game.

LornMarkus
Nov 8, 2011



Xelkelvos posted:

If only there weren't so many bits and pieces to it, I'd probably understand the game enough to run it rather than depend on a GM that'll never materialize for the game to teach it.

Yeah, I mostly managed to work it out but Chi accumulation is still a little fiddly. Oh, and Secret Arts: I basically understand nothing about all that aside from how the Warrior stuff works. Unlike Exalted, though, I really do feel like I could figure the rest of it out if I could play the game some more. Unfortunately I too lack any sort of GM and also aren't really the type for it myself.

Night10194 posted:

A lot of this stuff sounds like I'd enjoy this Wulin game.

It's an amazing game and it's actually very similar to FATE in a lot of ways, just with a fair bit more crunch and interplay to the combat. Literally the only thing keeping me from playing it often is that lack of a DM thing and not having had much luck with online games.

LornMarkus fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Sep 15, 2015

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora

It is definitely my favorite RPG. Not exactly rules-light, but consistent and everything works towards the goal of "be a wuxia game." The setting is set up so that there's bigger folks than you in the setting when you start, but no matter what direction you go you'll upset the status quo instead of trying to maintain it.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

Do I need a title?

Halloween Jack posted:

I've decided that the cardinal sin most games commit is simply being derivative and boring. The hobby is full of cargo cult design. There are tons of D&D ripoffs, and ripoffs for pretty much any really successful game published pre-2000, but I think CthulhuTech fits a certain model of game design that is all over the place, but remains nameless when it's not being conflated with White Wolf's games.

The 90s and 00s produced many games that follow this basic model: Characters have Attributes and Skills, usually rated 1-5 or 1-6. There's a dice-based resolution system that combines an Attribute and a Skill for a total which is somehow compared to a difficulty number. The resolution mechanics can be wildly different between games, but they all tend to work with an Attribute/Skill divide and a low numerical cap. (Often it seems like the designers just wanted to have a unique resolution mechanic to make their game stand out, without playtesting or even thinking very hard about how the probabilities worked out. One of the few merits of these systems is that it's fairly easy to convert between them.) Bolted onto this uninspired but functional system, there's often poorly-considered Advantages/Disadvantages rules, a magic system, and a combat subsystem. If the designer isn't a lazy dolt, there might actually be a subsystem for other genre-appropriate things like car chases.

Most people will call this the White Wolf model, but West End arguably did it earlier, and a lot of the games I'm talking about are far afield from the World of Darkness as far as subject matter is concerned. You can lump Unisystem and LUG's ICON system into this model as well. Even today, they still come out, both as free games, self-published games, and high production value releases like CthulhuTech.

These games aren't necessarily bad, either. I like some D6 and Unisystem games,. But they tend to come bundled with a lot of unexamined assumptions, just like D&D heartbreakers. And just like fantasy heartbreakers, it seems the designers often did not even consider the possibility of doing things differently.

Skill bloat, thematic element of your character being a member of this super-secret badass group, and metaplot, is also something I associate with this - a kind of concentrated 90's game design. Though I think the system-elements have survived far longer, probably because a lot of people like the elegance of limited range of numbers for skills and attributes - which is a preference that is entirely fair to have.

Plague of Hats posted:

For the most part, no, but it looks like if you cap out your stats and wheedle enough bonuses from Ads and gear, you might make it happen. Or, if you roll poorly against a vastly weaker foe and they also roll pure poo poo, since then it's about what you both rolled instead of the absolute numbers of normal tasks.

A Success happens when you roll equal to or more than 13. A Critical Success happens when you roll equal to or more than 22. A Critical Failure happens when all your dice show 1. If the test it opposed, the rules are unclear. Though they probably mean that the Difficulty is equal to what your opponent rolled, strictly speaking the Difficulty is still 13 - but if you roll more than your opponent you win anyway.

So let's see if we can get 22 on a dice roll where all the dice show 1. Since the outcome of a roll is [Skill]d[Poker Dice]+Attribute, and all 1's is a combination of equal numbers, we want Skill+Attribute to equal 22 or greater. Can we do this?

Attributes have a maximum of 10, or 11 for Strength and Agility. Skills have a maximum rating of 5. Then we can add a Specialization for +1. Some rules indicate that we can actually have three identical Specializations for +3. Then we can get the Advantage Geek, Muse, or Jock to add another +1 to Science, Artist, or Athletics. Sultry Voice for +2 to Presence skills. Alluring gives +2 to Presence skills. Keen [Sense] adds to [sense]-based Perception and Intuition tests. Rapport can add +1 to social stuff. Some Talents also add dice to skills: +1 to Intellect for alien stuff, +2 to social skills, +1 to notice things trying to hide, +1 to seduction, +1 to Intimidation, +1 to any social test, +1 to non-Scientific/Technical Intellect skills.

Oh, and Tagers can add ridiculous levels of Attributes to characters, especially when shifted. The most powerful ones are +3/+5 Strength, +3/+3 Percention, and +2/+3 Agility or Tenacity.

We can try for Presence+Seduction with some relevant specialization, Sultry Voice, Alluring Rapport, and Sexual Magnet; 10+5+1+2+2+1+1 gets us to 22 dice. Hence, a min-maxed pornomancer can have the 12 dice necessary to Critically Fail and Critical Succeed at a skill roll at the same time.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Was Weapons of the Gods the game that actually has magic chi-channeling arts so that you and your sex partners don't exhaust each other's chi?

That Old Tree
Jun 23, 2012

nah




Halloween Jack posted:

Was Weapons of the Gods the game that actually has magic chi-channeling arts so that you and your sex partners don't exhaust each other's chi?

I don't remember the specifics, but yes WotG had some sex magic in it.

Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

The Guffless Girlverine


Historically accurate sex magic, at that.

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora

Halloween Jack posted:

Was Weapons of the Gods the game that actually has magic chi-channeling arts so that you and your sex partners don't exhaust each other's chi?

Yes, and it's still in Wulin.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



That one, in fairness, is based on actual beliefs of Taoist Alchemy, which holds that (male on male) gay sex is bad not for moral reasons but because it will cause you to literally explode from having too much yang chi jammed into your body. Women, who have yin chi, are able to do it more easily because yin has infinite receptivity. (Though too much sex with someone too powerful is still a problem.)

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.




Grimey Drawer

theironjef posted:



We read Fantasy Wargaming: The Highest Level of All. This one might really be the first heartbreaker. If you want something that combines long rambling speeches about the importance of nobility, casual disdain for "women's lib," and big timecubey style rules, you should rush out and buy this. It'll be around a dollar.

I need to find the copy I got through the Sci-fi book club way, way, way back in my teens. Privileged, poo poo-at-math little-me didn't so much as blink at all the WTF brought up in the podcast and the F&F review someone did a while ago.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Mr. Maltose posted:

Historically accurate sex magic, at that.

So that's where the weirder spells in Xin come from.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




I don't want to give the impression that I'm against kung fu sex magick.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Halloween Jack posted:

I don't want to give the impression that I'm against kung fu sex magick.
It's definitely one of Red Hot Chili Pepper's best albums.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Give it a Wei?

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

The best bit in both WOTG and Legends of the Wulin, for my money, is the combo potential of one set of loresheets.

Like, being descended from the first emperor lets you eventually invent a crazy anachronistic item and introduce it to the setting; the steam engine, gunpowder, the lightbulb, whatever.

Being descended from anothe emperor lets you introduce a massive infrastructure change to the setting, like the great wall.

If you combine the two, you can invent the railroad and everyone can have kung fu fights on the back of moving trains that cross the entire country.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




LatwPIAT posted:

Skill bloat, thematic element of your character being a member of this super-secret badass group, and metaplot, is also something I associate with this - a kind of concentrated 90's game design. Though I think the system-elements have survived far longer, probably because a lot of people like the elegance of limited range of numbers for skills and attributes - which is a preference that is entirely fair to have.


A Success happens when you roll equal to or more than 13. A Critical Success happens when you roll equal to or more than 22. A Critical Failure happens when all your dice show 1. If the test it opposed, the rules are unclear. Though they probably mean that the Difficulty is equal to what your opponent rolled, strictly speaking the Difficulty is still 13 - but if you roll more than your opponent you win anyway.

So let's see if we can get 22 on a dice roll where all the dice show 1. Since the outcome of a roll is [Skill]d[Poker Dice]+Attribute, and all 1's is a combination of equal numbers, we want Skill+Attribute to equal 22 or greater. Can we do this?

Attributes have a maximum of 10, or 11 for Strength and Agility. Skills have a maximum rating of 5. Then we can add a Specialization for +1. Some rules indicate that we can actually have three identical Specializations for +3. Then we can get the Advantage Geek, Muse, or Jock to add another +1 to Science, Artist, or Athletics. Sultry Voice for +2 to Presence skills. Alluring gives +2 to Presence skills. Keen [Sense] adds to [sense]-based Perception and Intuition tests. Rapport can add +1 to social stuff. Some Talents also add dice to skills: +1 to Intellect for alien stuff, +2 to social skills, +1 to notice things trying to hide, +1 to seduction, +1 to Intimidation, +1 to any social test, +1 to non-Scientific/Technical Intellect skills.

Oh, and Tagers can add ridiculous levels of Attributes to characters, especially when shifted. The most powerful ones are +3/+5 Strength, +3/+3 Percention, and +2/+3 Agility or Tenacity.

We can try for Presence+Seduction with some relevant specialization, Sultry Voice, Alluring Rapport, and Sexual Magnet; 10+5+1+2+2+1+1 gets us to 22 dice. Hence, a min-maxed pornomancer can have the 12 dice necessary to Critically Fail and Critical Succeed at a skill roll at the same time.

While that's funny, I don't think that works because at least some of those bonuses are added to the total isntead of the number of dices rolled.

Speaking of which, no rules for what happens if you use the Cards variant and have to make a roll with more than 5 dice.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

Do I need a title?

For all that I spoke badly about CthulhuTech 2nd edition's beta, I do like how pleasant their PR person martian_bob has been in meeting concerns. I mentioned the parts about Trivia 5 and Hobby 5 mocking the players for taking them, and he replied "We're definitely not going for mockery or dismissiveness. I'll bring this up before our next editing pass for tone." Then when me and some other people raised concerns over "Seduction (Subjugation-in-the-sense-of-BDSM)" being an actual skill+specialization, he wrote "No idea why this was chosen for inclusion. You're not the only one who's concerned, we know that the eyes of the community are going to be on us especially in this area, we're making a concerted effort to stay away from the problematic depictions we had in the past."

It kind of feels like they're honestly trying to be good, and that's kind of nice?

MonsieurChoc posted:

While that's funny, I don't think that works because at least some of those bonuses are added to the total isntead of the number of dices rolled.

That actually makes it easier; because every rolled dice has to be a 1, getting +1 to total and +1d to your dice pool have the same effect on the total. Rolling fewer dice just raise the probability that they all come up 1's.

LatwPIAT fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Sep 15, 2015

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



LatwPIAT posted:

For all that I spoke badly about CthulhuTech 2nd edition's beta, I do like how pleasant their PR person martian_bob has been in meeting concerns. I mentioned the parts about Trivia 5 and Hobby 5 mocking the players for taking them, and he replied "We're definitely not going for mockery or dismissiveness. I'll bring this up before our next editing pass for tone." Then when me and some other people raised concerns over "Seduction (Subjugation-in-the-sense-of-BDSM)" being an actual skill+specialization, he wrote "No idea why this was chosen for inclusion. You're not the only one who's concerned, we know that the eyes of the community are going to be on us especially in this area, we're making a concerted effort to stay away from the problematic depictions we had in the past."

It kind of feels like they're honestly trying to be good, and that's kind of nice?

Did they get rid of Matthew Grau, the old line developer?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





LatwPIAT posted:

For all that I spoke badly about CthulhuTech 2nd edition's beta, I do like how pleasant their PR person martian_bob has been in meeting concerns. I mentioned the parts about Trivia 5 and Hobby 5 mocking the players for taking them, and he replied "We're definitely not going for mockery or dismissiveness. I'll bring this up before our next editing pass for tone." Then when me and some other people raised concerns over "Seduction (Subjugation-in-the-sense-of-BDSM)" being an actual skill+specialization, he wrote "No idea why this was chosen for inclusion. You're not the only one who's concerned, we know that the eyes of the community are going to be on us especially in this area, we're making a concerted effort to stay away from the problematic depictions we had in the past."

It kind of feels like they're honestly trying to be good, and that's kind of nice?

Remember when Exalted tried to do it?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Midjack posted:

Remember when Exalted tried to do it?

Did that edition ever actually come out, or has it been cancelled?

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Supposedly it's nearly out, they just have to remove the references to Page XX.

Fossilized Rappy
Dec 26, 2012



And lo, did Steve Jackson Games say "make something that would be kicking rad to airbrush on the side of a van." And it was so, and it was good.

I decided that with the way this thread moves compared to my actual moments of "feels like engaging in active output", it wouldn't hurt to do two reviews at once. Especially when I'm going to be in the Exodus mines for two more books (three if I decide to do the new Game Master's Guide they put out recently). So, here we are, and a shout out to the Goon who requested someone review GURPS Technomancer in the first place.


Introduction: What the Hell am I Looking at Here?
Published in 1998 by Steve Jackson Games (of course, given that this is GURPS we're talking about), GURPS Technomancer was written by freelance writer and frequent GURPS contributer David L. Pulver. Pulver is probably the quintessential example of "mad genius": capable of creating lots of really creative and interesting concepts, but also eccentric as hell. His two big loves are science fiction and anime, the former being outwardly shown in his creation of the GURPS setting Transhuman Space and the latter in the fact that sex droids and catgirls are frequent features of most books he writes. For those with weak anime constitutions, I will give the forewarning that GURPS Technomancer has both in brief quantities.

Anyway, Technomancer is set in the then-present of the 1990s, but one that diverged at the end of World War II thanks to the atomic bomb being linked to a magic ritual that would bring the paranormal into the mundane world. The result is a timeline where the Vietnam War was won by zombies, golems, dragons, and flying carpets being used by the American forces, nuclear technology is highly tied to magical formulae, and wizards got us into space. The "modern day" is a similarly twisted mirror of familiar 90s topics such as big corporations, Greenpeace, the Irish Republican Army, Hezbollah, and the Weather Underground being contrasted with factory line magic items, fast food made even faster with the use of cooking spells and enchanted tools, dragon CEOs, and sapient communist penguins.

In between every Exodus review, I'll be looking at GURPS Technomancer and Funny New Guys, a sourcebook for playing Technomancer during the Vietnam War. I'm far more familiar with GURPS Fourth Edition than I am with its predecessor, but I'll try to do my best to avoid any fuckups concerning discussion of mechanics meeting fluff and the like.

Oh, and this intro post doesn't count for moving immediately back to Exodus. We'll definitely be looking at chapter 1 of GURPS Technomancer before we get back to that!

Crasical
Apr 22, 2014

GG!*
*GET GOOD


Fossilized Rappy posted:

And lo, did Steve Jackson Games say "make something that would be kicking rad to airbrush on the side of a van." And it was so, and it was good.

I'm looking forward to how this compares with Shadowrun.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

If nothing else, Technomancer at least skips the played out "Magic and technology" are opposed" thing.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018





But Mors, you say, weren't you still doing the Warmachine/Hordes stuff and just stopped for a while-

Yes! Yes I am. But I can do that any time! Fellowship can only be done now because I have to convince you, the reader, to back the Kickstarter of Fellowship, written by fellow goon gnome7!


All potential orcs.

Fellowship is a game about a team of heroes, working together to vanquish a great evil. It is about doing good and improving the world. It is dangerous, but it is also wonderful, as the titular fellowship (that is, the party) fights the forces of the Overlord. Fellowship runs on the Apocalypse Engine, similar to Monsterhearts or Apocalypse World, but with its own take on things. It uses a mechanic called the Spotlight to keep things moving.

The Overlord (who is played by what in other games might be the GM) decides who has the Spotlight when a scene starts, and that person gets to lead what's going on. They can pass the Spotlight on as they like - but if their actions put them in danger, they lose the Spotlight immediately and the Overlord chooses who gets it. The Overlord controls how the world reacts to the fellowship and their actions, too.

Scenes come in a few types. A Long Journey is a common scene, in which every player gets to tell about an event that happened on the way, which the Overlord may frame or influence the setting of, and then another player gets to tell how they handled that event, with as much or as little detail as people feel is needed. The Overlord also gets a turn, to describe an event related to them or their minions directly and to tell everyone what the Overlord is up to right now. Once all that's done, the party reaches its destination.

A Little Downtime is usually once you've gotten to a city or town and have some time to hang out. Everyone gets to tell about one thing they did while there, and the Overlord will ask questions about it. This can go around as long as you like, but after every cycle, the Overlord gets to talk about the preparations they're making, so don't take too long!

A Proper Challenge is when the fellowship is trying to achieve some short-term goal. Everyone works together to set the scene, and new scenes continue until the Challenge is overcome. Most of the time, a Challenge is about earning the Fellowship of a community. Whenever you reach a community, they'll have some trouble, generally Overlord-related, which must be solved. The Challenge is to figure out how to fix things and then doing it. The first scene is almost always planning, after which scenes are about setting the plan in motion and carrying it out. A Challenge lasts either until it's resolved or is unresolvable.

The Showdown, however, is an interruption. It can happen no matter what's going on, and when it does, the Overlord or one of their Generals makes a personal appearance, or a Source of Power is discovered. The plot is now about this, with all old plot threads centering around the Showdown now. The new threat is asserted, the Overlord or General makes a show of power and the fellowship has to drop everything to deal with this new problem. If they're not around, a Source of Power on its own is still going to be equally dramatic and dangerous. The fellowship must be placed in danger requiring immediate action, in an extended and dramatic scene full of danger. The scene won't end until it's dealt with - or the fellowship runs away. A Showdown should always be dangerous, thrilling and climactic.

Next time: Agendas, Principles and Moves.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.




Grimey Drawer

Crasical posted:

I'm looking forward to how this compares with Shadowrun.

It's much closer to something like the Incarnations of Immortality or the Legend of Korra, I think. Magic is so thoroughly integrated it seems almost mundane, and the closest you get to that magic vs. science wank is vigorous competition between the two techniques.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007



Halloween Jack posted:

There are tons of D&D ripoffs, and ripoffs for pretty much any really successful game published pre-2000, but I think CthulhuTech fits a certain model of game design that is all over the place, but remains nameless when it's not being conflated with White Wolf's games.
Honestly I'd just call this "90's game design"? I mean there were a lot of dumb and pervasive trends that took years to finally start going away, and Cthulhutech unfortunately stands out by just doing design like that straight with little insight or innovation.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Fellowship: Look at the pretty art!



Agendas are your guidelines on how to act. The fellowship as a whole has three, and each playbook offers a choice for a fourth for the player. When you aren't sure what to do, your agendas will show you. Principles are your rules. Don't break 'em. And moves? They're what you do. Standard Apocalypse Engine stuff.



The fellowship has three Agendas that all of the members share:
  • Improve the World Around You: The fellowship exists to save the world. They do what they can with what they have. As long as they're doing what they feel is right, they're keeping to this agenda. If the other players disagree with the methods, that's okay. Stick to your guns on how you feel the world should be improved - but don't be a stubborn mule about everything. Just, don't be a doormat, either. Negotiate, and if you have to, compromise. Act like a team.
  • Tell Us Of Your People: You are the arbiter of your people's culture, lore and place in the world. When you play the Elf, you speak for all Elves. Represent them! Tell everyone else about them and bring their interests to the fore. Don't forget where you came from.
  • Be Brave, Take Risks: Adventures aren't boring. They're dangerous, and sometimes they go wrong and someone gets hurt. That's fine. Don't be afraid of the consequences. Do dangerous things. Take risks and deal with them. Don't be afraid to suffer if it'll be interesting. And hey, maybe it'll pay off!

They have ten Principles.
  • Be heroic. The fellowship is good guys. If you want to play the rear end in a top hat ruining things, that's the Overlord's job. The fellowship should be seeking out heroic things to do and being heroes.
  • Create solutions, not problems. There's enough bad things going on in the world - don't add to it. That's the Overlord's job! You don't have to solve every problem you face - some might not even be solvable, or might be better ignored if you have other options. You can call for help, too, if you need it. But at the end of the day? Fix things. Sometimes stuff will get worse because of your solutions, but that's not your goal. Don't create problems on purpose.
  • Address the characters, not the players. Your buddy over there? That's Bungo Bullroarer, not Nate.
  • Embrace the fantastic. If something sounds silly or implausible, ask yourself if the world would be cooler if it was plausible. Is the answer yes? It's plausible! Don't get bogged down by physics or realism. If you're the Elf and you decide Elves are time travellers from the future? That's fine.
  • Make a move that follows. You can only make Moves that make sense for the situation, and to do the move, you have to take actions that make sense for it. Tell what you're doing to trigger the move, then roll the move.
  • Remind us of your moves. It's not always clear what move you're trying to make in a situation - so you should definitely say which one it is, once you do the fictional thing necessary to make it. Remind everyone what choice you made, if a move gives multiple choices...and if there are consequences for not choosing the ones you didn't, mention them.
  • Always ask questions. Always answer questions. If you don't know something, ask. Not just on rules - if you want to know more about the Heir or their people, ask them! If you want to know more about the situation, ask the Overlord! If someone asks you a question about yourself or your people, answer them. If you don't know, make something up. It's true now. If you can't come up with anything good, you can ask the table for ideas, but your word is final on your people!
  • Begin and end with the fiction. Describe what you're doing and adapt to the world around you - the moves are important, but the fiction is moreso. Begin with what you do, figure out what changed.
  • Don't steal the spotlight... When someone else is doing something, let them do it. Don't interrupt or take over. Don't get in their way, don't make suggestions unless they ask. Let them play their character. Do feel free to speak up if someone hasn't had the spotlight in a while, though. Everyone deserves a chance at it!
  • ...But shine on when you have it. when you have the spotlight, use it. Do something cool. It doesn't matter what. Just do a thing.

And six basic Moves!

Overcome is used when you're trying to circumvent, avoid or survive a threat. It uses different stats depending on how you do it. (No, we haven't discussed what the stats are yet. We'll get there.) When you:
  • Draw on your pride, rage, passion or innate talents of your people, you use +Blood.\
  • Use luck, tenacity or virtue to survive, you use +Courage.
  • Use skill, talent, artistry, speed or grace, you use +Grace.
  • Use planning, rational thought, taking advantage of the terrain or relying on your senses, you use +Sense.
  • Draw on past experiences, use your words, wait for the right time or act calmly and reasonably, use +Wisdom.
  • Rely on a Companion's help or skills, use +Bonds.
On a 7+, you succeed in avoiding the danger, but on a 7-9 there's a price. On a 6-, you fail unless you pay a price named by the Overlord.

Finish Them is used when you attempt to defeat an enemy you hold an advantage over. It uses +Blood, and can only be used if you have an advantage - the element of surprise, a distraction, a good plan, teamwork, the right thing for the job, whatever gives you an advantage. On a 10+, you destroy them and tell us how. On a 7-9, you damage a stat that makes sense and lose your advantage. If an ally was Keeping Them Busy, they aren't any more. On a 6-, you lose your advantage and must face retaliation.
Also, if you Finish Them with a weapon that has ammo, you use 1 Ammo.

Get Away is used when you need to get out of reach or out of sight, and uses +Grace. You say where you're going, and on a 10+, pick two. On a 7-9, pick one:
  • You get there quickly, avoiding any harm along the way.
  • You get there quietly, drawing no attention.
  • You grab someone nearby and bring them along with you.
Also, if you have armor with the Clumsy tag, you get -1 to Get Away.

Keep Them Busy is used when you act as a distraction or buy time, and uses +Courage. On a 10+, you buy as much time as needed and keep all their attention. On a 7-9, you can only stall a short time, abd they'll retaliate when that time is up.
Also, if you do it with a weapon that has ammo, you use 1 Ammo.

Look Closely is used to examine a situation or location, and uses +Sense. On a 10+, ask three questions. On a 7-9, ask 1. When you act on the answers, you get +1 on the first roll to do so.
  • What is going on right now?
  • What is going to happen next?
  • What here is useful or valuable to me?
  • What here is a threat or danger to me?
  • What here is not what it appears to be?

Speak Softly is used to have a quiet chat with someone not in the fellowship, and uses +Wisdom. On a 10+, ask three questions. On a 7-9, ask 1. When you act on the answers, you get +1 on the first roll to do so.
  • What do they want from me or my friends?
  • What are they trying to hide?
  • How are they useful or valuable to me?
  • What should I be wary of when dealing with them?
  • What are they going to do next?

Talk Sense is used when you make a strong argument to someone and uses +Sense or +wisdom. You say what you want from them, and a strong argument is one they can't ignore because it's hard to deny, exactly what they want to hear or strikes at something they hold dear. On a 7+, you need to make a promise, which they'll tell you, and they'll do it. On a 7-9, however, a promise isn't enough - you must also pay a price, here and now.

Next time: Special Moves!

Wrestlepig
Feb 25, 2011

my mum says im cool



Toilet Rascal

Having the general "Defy Danger" move also cover combat without a specific stat and with a specific big finisher is a good way to go, with lots of room for fluff/flair and balance between classes.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.


Clapping Larry

MonsieurChoc posted:

Tyler Zann, long-lost descendant of Erich Zann.

Ronnie Van Zann his redneck cousin.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Fellowship: Make friends and influence people!



There's several special moves, some of which just codify in rules things we've already talked about :

Command Lore: When someone asks something about your character or your people, tell them. When you ask about another character or their people, they will tell you the answer. When you ask about the Overlord, they alone may choose not to answer.

Earning Fellowship: Fellowship earned through action. When you have spent some time getting a feel for a community and speaking with the people in it, the Overlord will tell you what this community needs, what they are lacking, or how the Overlord has harmed them. If you can solve this problem, you will earn their respect, their admiration and their Fellowship.
When you have earned Fellowship with a community, no matter how you earned it, the Overlord will ask you to pick one of 3 Fellowship moves. The player who picks the move is either the one most aligned to the community or the one who played the largest role in earning their Fellowship. The move you pick applies as long as you keep Fellowship with that community. Fellowship is lost if you betray them, or if you revoke their Fellowship for some reason, or if the Overlord destroys the community.

Forge a Bond: When you bond with someone over something you did or shared together, record a new Bond on your sheet, describing the connection you two now hold. A Bond is a single sentence describing how you feel about them or what you two have done together. If you already had a Bond with them, you can add another Bond, or rewrite an existing one. You can never have more than three Bonds with someone.
If you forge a Bond with someone outside the fellowship, they will join your cause as a Companion, so long as the Bond holds. You can always give something Precious to a Companion to forge another Bond with them.

The Bonds That Bind Us: When you work with another player in a way that fits a Bond each of you has with the other, you are filled with Hope during your roll. Be sure to tell us how they were helping you, or how you are helping them. When you are working together with someone you have a Bond with and they must pay a price, you may pay that price for them.

The Bonds That Break Us: When you bring harm to someone you have a Bond with (their call) and they let you know it, they remove one of their Bonds with them and you are in Despair for your next roll.

Pay The Price: When a move tells you to pay a price, tell us what it will cost you. A price you pay can be in the form of taking damage, or losing some equipment, or Using some equipment, or losing an advantage, or suffering a setback of some kind. Whatever the cost, you must pay that price immediately.

Fill Your Belly: Food's important! When you are between scenes, you may Use Food to heal one damage. When you share a meal with friends, one person may heal an extra point of damage.

End of Session: At the end of each session, answer three questions:
  • Did we gain the Fellowship of a new community, or protect a community whose Fellowship we already had?
  • Did we strike a blow against the Overlord and their minions?
  • Were we heroes?
For every yes, the group chooses one:
  • Restore up to 2 Uses of Gear among the group.
  • Heal up to 2 damage among the group.
  • The Fellowship and the Overlord each choose one player to level up. You can't be chosen to level up if you are the highest level player, but if at least two players are tied for highest, anyone can level up. (The Overlord is a player, btw.)
Levelling up is like in Apocalypse World, mostly. Increase your level by 1, mark off an option from your advancement list permanently, and do what that option says.

Recover: When you gain Fellowship with a community and spend at least a day recovering there, remove all damage from all of your stats. You also restock all of your Gear. Damaged weapons and armor are repaired, lost equipment is replaced, lost companions find their way back to you, and used up equipment is returned to full. If the Overlord has any damage, they heal one damage now. You can only Recover from a given community once.

Sharing Moves: When an advancement option tells you to share a move, choose a move you already know. The player giving the move always chooses what move is shared. The player you are sharing that move with gains that move and can use it from now on. You can't share a move you don't know, even if it's from your playbook. You can't share a move that says it can't be shared. You can't share a move from a Destiny playbook.

Damage and Healing: When you take damage, either by making a move or paying a price, choose a stat and mark it. Sometimes you won't get a choice, and a stat will be damaged for you. While a stat is damaged, you are in Despair whenever you roll that stat. You can't mark a stat that's already marked. When you heal, remove a mark from of your stats. When you take damage while all your stats are already marked, you are Taken Out.

Taken Out: When all your stats are damaged and you take further damage, you are Taken Out and no longer able to help out for the rest of the scene. Tell us how you got Taken Out. What happened to you? What is going to happen to you next? Can the fellowship save you from your fate? If so, how?
If you decide you're dying, describe Death for us. As a hero, your soul is valuable - what does Death offer you in exchange for your life? Do you take their offer? If you do, you are most certainly dead.
If you are Taken Out in the presence of the Overlord, they will make you An Offer You Can't Refuse. They may ask for services, for something you hold dear, or for the end of your life. You can take it or leave it, but if you refuse, you must roll +Courage.
If you survive being Taken Out, you will be able to continue play starting with the next scene, with all of your stats still damaged.

Next time: Stats!

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Ronnie Van Zann his redneck cousin.
"Y'all magic police, y'all been brutalizin' me, man!"

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




unseenlibrarian posted:

If you combine the two, you can invent the railroad and everyone can have kung fu fights on the back of moving trains that cross the entire country.
Actually, fights on speeding trains are incredibly overdone in Hollywood at this point.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Fellowship: Oh hey I spotted my first typo!

You have five stats: Blood, Courage, Grace, Sense and Wisdom. They range from -1 at minimum to +3 at maximum. Blood represents your strength, toughness, bloodlust and connection to your people. It's used for physical strength, combat skill and ability to harm others. Courage is your inner strength, tenacity and soul, used to tell how long you can stare down death and keep going no matter how bad it gets, as well as to inspire others and stand up for what matters. Grace is your style, skill, artistry and beauty. It's used when you want to look good, keep cool, be acrobatic, make things or show off. Sense is your wit, etiquette, logic and senses. It's used to keep track of the world around you, analyze it and reason things out. Wisdom is your knowledge, experience, tact and cultural relations. It's all about knowing the right time to act, making friends and getting what you want without pissing people off.

You can also gain secondary stats! Hope is gained in some situations. When you have Hope, you roll three dice and take the top two instead of just rolling two dice. Its opposite is Despair - roll three dice, take the lowest two. No matter how many sources give you Hope or Despair, they don't stack. If you have both, no matter how many sources give you either, they cancel out and you roll normally.

Bonds are also a stat, discussed above. Bonds with PCs and Companions are used to measure respect and trust. When a Companion is damaged and has no stats that aren't damaged, someone loses a Bond with them. If there are no more Bonds to lose, the Companion will leave you. Bonds with the enemy are the opposite. They can cause Despair or be used to put you in danger or harm your other Bonds. You usually only get Bonds with the enemy when they're forced on you by the Overlord and their minions.

Companions are friends and allies recruited to the fellowship. They aren't all people - they can be mounts, animal pets or vehicles! While you have one, all of their stats are available to you, and you can use their stats by damaging them. An Elven Archer, for example, has Perfect Shot. You can damage that at any time to have them do something helpful with a perfect shot, like tripping an enemy or blocking an attack. When you are working alongside a Companion you have Bonds with, you can always have them take damage in your place when you would take damage. If they do when all their stats are already damaged, though, you must erase a Bond with them. If they have no Bonds left, they leave - they might die or give up or whatever. Your Bonds are all that keep them going.

Companions that are in Despair can't use their stats, can't take damage for you and can't help you. Only the heroes of the fellowship, the PCs, can fight through Despair. Companions, however, are only put in Despair by effects that say so, not by damage. Every playbook can take Companions as gear. They can still be lost forever if you lose all Bonds with them. If this happens, when you next Recover, you choose: either you gain a new Companion with the same abilities, or you get a new Companion from the same Gear option.

Gear is not just stuff you have - it's the equipment that's vital to you and your cause. Every time you Recover, so does all your Gear, just like it was when you got it. You get all uses back, any damaged or lost Gear is fixed, any Companions that are Gear get healed up, returned to you or replaced. None of this applies to stuff you get on the journey that isn't Gear.

Weapons have Range tags - Melee, Ranged and Area. Pretty obvious! Melee can only be used in melee, while Ranged are dangerous to use when in melee range. Area weapons tend to be magical or explosive. Items can also have tags:

  • Clumsy: A Clumsy item is hard to use. If it's a weapon, -1 to using it unless you have proper training. If it's armor, -1 to Get Away.
  • Dangerous: This item can cause problems. When you use it without careful prep, there are always consequences - collateral damage, usually, or personal misfortune. Sometimes this is acceptable.
  • Dwarf-Made: This item is nearly indestructible, able only to be destroyed by dragonfire or the secrets known only by the dwarves.
  • Elf-Made: This item does not suffer the ravages of time. In addition, anyone holding it that is not an elf or an elf-friend will be burned, forcing them to drop it.
  • Necrotic: Any attacks with this item do not heal naturally. When a Necrotic attack causes damage, mark it twice. When you Recover, you don't heal a Necrotic wound - it needs either magic or medicinal healing. When you heal a Necrotic wound, remove the Necrotic mark, but leave the damage - it'll heal naturally from there. Any Companions or foes dealt Necrotic damage are in Despair until healed, and cannot help or harm you.
  • Orc-Made: This item is Clumsy unless wielded by an orc, and ugly to all but orcs.
  • Piercing: Armor can't be used against this item.
  • Reload: After you attack with this item, you can't use it again until you get a safe moment to reload it. Usually, this won't have limited Ammo, though!
  • Thrown: When you attack at range with this item, you can't use it again until it's retrieved.

Some items have a set number of Uses - they'll say how many. Usually, you must Use them to get access to a unique ability. Once an item's out of Uses, it's out until you Recover or use another move to get some back.

  • Ammo: Some ranged weapons have ammo. It's an abstraction - you can use the weapon as much as you like if you still have Ammo, but whenever you Keep Them Busy or Finish Them with the weapon, reduce the Ammo by 1. Overcoming never costs Ammo unless that's the price you must pay. If you have 0 Ammo, you can't use the weapon until it gets refilled.
  • Armor: When you take damage, you can spend a Use of Armor to negate that damage.
  • Drunk: When this item is used, it leaves you intoxicated for the rest of the scene. The tag will list one or two stats. When you roll those stats while Drunk, you are in Despair. If you Fill Your Belly with an item that makes you Drunk, you are Drunk in the next scene after eating.
  • Food: It's edible! To Fill Your Belly, you need Food.
  • Healing: It has healing properties. You can Use it to heal 1 damage to someone.
  • Precious: It's expensive and rare! When you offer a Precious item to someone, you can Talk Sense as if you had a reasonable argument. When you give something Precious to a Companion, you immediately Forge a Bond with them.
  • Slow: This item takes a long time to use, so you can't usually do it under pressure.
  • Useful: This represents a collection of items. When Used, it produces something helpful for the situation, limited by whatever the item is - Tunneling Gear, for example, can only produce tools and items related to tunneling, like torches or pickaxes or helmets.
  • Vigor: The opposite of Drunk. It will list one or two stats, and when you Use this item, you are filled with Hope when you roll those stats for the rest of the scene.


peep those elves

Next time: The Dwarf Playbook

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Seems like you could use Fellowship to do stuff like Dogs in the Vineyard, or Satan save us, DragonRaid pretty easily.

Has anyone ever done DragonRaid?

  • Locked thread