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Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Alien Rope Burn posted:

... like I said, it was easy to break.
Absurdly easy. Really, once Mutants & Masterminds 2e came about BESM was basically done (er, ignoring all the horrible business ideas that dragged GOO under anyway). There was basically nothing it could do that BESM couldn't, except it used a familiar rule system and had much tighter balance. Which... says a lot, since M&M is really easy to break too (ESP and perception-range attacks? Summoning multiple minions or other force multipliers?). BESM3e piling on even more complexity with limited balance improvements and its limited print run sealed that deal.

Not that I'll ever really hate BESM. 1e was a charmingly clunky rules-light game, and 2e had the "price skills by how useful they are in the genre of the campaign" thing that more universal systems really, really needed to copy. Although I guess we haven't seen many of those recently, have we? I guess the 90's were the heyday of those... :ohdear:

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Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Alien Rope Burn posted:

so that'd have to be a dusty-rear end copy he'd have been hanging onto if that's the case.
Knowing Siembieda, this is perfectly plausible.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

Part One: An RPG history lesson

It's been a while since I've done an F&F review, and like my prior few I'm going to go into the history of roleplaying games. Before, this involved reviewing games and supplements from the early 80's that most people have long since forgotten, but this time we'll be traveling into the exciting 90's! There's just one small problem... the game I'm going to be talking about never actually got released.

To explain a bit, we'll need to give some history of White Wolf and Mark Rein·Hagen. Forgive me if this is incomplete, since I'm going off memory and what little remains on the web these days. Rein·Hagen and Jonathan Tweet (and later, Lisa Stevens) founded Lion Rampart in 1987, where they co-wrote and produced Ars Magica, a well-received game with several interesting game mechanics, such as players controlling multiple characters. Still, Lion Rampart struggled a bit like a lot of small RPG companies tend to and merged with Stewart Wieck's White Wolf Magazine, forming White Wolf Game Studio in 1990.

The company still struggled for a bit until they released some small game that started a certain game line that apparently had some modest success. :v:

In 1998, after the World of Darkness was well-established, Rein·Hagen began work on a sci-fi RPG titled Exile. Here's where it... gets a bit strange. He actually started a non-profit organization called the Null Foundation to own the rights. To be honest I'm not... entirely sure what the point of it was, but at the time there was a bit of financial trouble at White Wolf and less than a year later Rein·Hagen left the company and took Exile and the Null Foundation with him*.
*If anyone does have more information/gossip about what was going on behind the scenes, please feel free to elaborate.

An interesting thing about the Null Foundation is that it had a rather large web presence for when it came out. For the kids in the audience here, 1996 was the era where you were probably connecting through dual-up to America Online or Compuserve, and the Google search engine wouldn't be released for another two years. So it was a pretty prominent presence! Of course, considering this was almost twenty years ago there's not much sign of it left, but archive.org still has a copy of the Null Foundation website if you want to give it look. In addition, the company had an official MUSH to RP in the setting (a text-based chat server, somewhere between a MUD and IRC chat), and in what's most important for this review, they actually put playtest rules up on their site to freely download.

For various reasons that are mostly lost to history, the Exile RPG never actually got released. My suspicion is that Rein·Hagen had big expectations that were impossible to meet, considering the website notes they were looking for partners for a "computer-generated animated series", there's constant mentions about a Null Cosm implying that they were hoping for a WoD-style success, and other such... poor business decisions. Despite the RPG never getting a release, the Null Foundation eventually got folded into Rein·Hagen's new company "Atomaton, Inc" and in 2001 they released Z-G (as in, "zero gravity"), a game very loosely based on the concepts and setting.

Specifically, a "collectible action figure game" which let you snap pieces onto the figures and collect... power cards and stuff to use them in not-quite-miniature gameplay.



Honestly, it wasn't a horrible idea... but considering it came out after the initial CCG rush when stores were already loaded with unsold merchandise it just didn't have a prayer. Not helping matters was the rise of collectible miniature games like Mage Knight that offered much more value for the money. To the best of my knowledge the company only ever released the initial two figures and the card booster pack, and Atomaton finally folded in 2003.

So what the hell was Exile?
Luckily, archive.org makes this part easy. :toot: Quoting the website...

null-f.org posted:

Design Precepts
We have a number of design precepts in ExileTM, which we have used to give us focus and direction. They describe what makes ExileTM different from TravelerTM, Star WarsTM, and any other Space Opera. This is a wild and crazy nearly endless series of worlds, where the imagination is the only real limit for what you might find. Here's how we're going to hold it all together.
  • Conspiracy. The mood of Exile TM is that of layers of conspiracy so thick the truth can never be known. The question that always arises is who is really in control, how much power do they really have, and what are they up to?
  • Suspense. More than anything else, this has a mood of film noir, shadows and fog. This is not clean-cut science fiction, ExileTM possesses the fuzziness of the unknown. The universe is vast and most of it is still a mystery to us.
  • hard-core Science Fiction. Though things get pretty far out, everything (in the end at least) makes sense, both scientifically and rationally. All explanations for scientific phenomena, when we provide one at all, must be presented in a logical formal manner and make coherent sense in terms of scientific principles.
  • Role-playing with an edge. Your character represents and must deal with issues fundamental to the human condition. Ultimately this game needs is about the Self, and the triumph over despair.
  • Unique Presentation. Whatever we do, this game cannot resemble any aspect of the Storyteller system. We want to reach a new audience, reminding them as little as possible of Vampire et al. The style and mood of the cover and graphics should be a something completely new in the industry. The art should be realistic looking, enigmatic, and perhaps use the medium of modified photographs (which can be created in-house).
  • Eerie Familiarity. In order to give this setting a contemporary and somewhat eerie feel, I want to make many aspects of it parallel things in our world.
  • Immortality. There are people in the Hegemony, powerful senators and such, who are effectively immortal. How this affects politics and intrigue can easily be seen in Vampire, from which we will take a few thematic elements (for later games at least, initially we won't focus much on Diadar or Trinary).
  • Clones. Cognates are a major political factor, and these clans of clones plan a major role in the society and political structure of the Hegemony.
  • Historical Connotations. The setting of the Hegemony is loosely based on that of the age of conquest mixed with the British Empire and a liberal dose of Asian cultures (mostly third dynasty China) mixed in. This multicultural mix should pull us away from the purely western POV so common to so many SF settings.
... or to put it simpler, something akin to Transhuman Space crossed with Vampire: The Masquerade's politics and aesthetics. There's also a fair bit of, well, anime throw in there as well. For example, the only art that was ever released for Exile (and Z-G) was by Joshua Gabriel Timbrook, perhaps best known here for the iconic splat characters in the first and second edition WoD games. I personally rather liked his work, but in some ways it was a poor fit for the WoD. Unfortunately, a lot of Exile's art has been lost to the barren craters of Geocities and its fallen free web hosting ilk, but a few pieces survive off archive.org.

To put it charitably, it's clear Rein·Hagen was going for what could be described as-

Art Guidelines posted:

Space Suits - Forget the bulky 'bubble head' space suits you always see. The Ulsters used in Exile are skin-tight, highly flexible and nearly untearable second skins. Think black latex fetish gear, painted with all sorts of wild and personalized designs.
... yeah, pretty much pure 90's technofetish, showing a bit more of that WoD influence. :whip: This will get even more obvious once we get into the game itself.


(These were huge images on an 800x600 CRT display, really)

You said something about a playtest draft?

quote:

*** Cover: Imagine a 7 X 10 spiral bound book book (sic) (bound on the short side) with a black plastic cover. Imprinted on it (or perhaps a holographic sticker attached to it) it the exile petroglyph and the word: ***
:allears:

As mentioned earlier, the Null Foundation had a fairly large web presence for the era, and they tried to take advantage of this by offloading editing and playtesting allowing fans access to the development process. I'm not sure how many iterations there were, but it wasn't... many, and they would have been lost to the aether if not for archive.org. If you want to get a look, go ahead and give the html draft a look. There's only one problem... the playtest drafts there are woefully incomplete. Luckily for you, I found a dusty CD-R when I was throwing things out bravely archived a PDF version of a different draft that has more of the setting information and rules in it, and I'm going to attempt to go through all these available sources and give as complete an overlook as I can manage.

Of course, it's important to keep in mind that the Exile playtest drafts can only be charitably be called a "complete game", and I'm pretty sure they're not actually playable as written. But this isn't a game review and it's something more of a history lesson, and as one of the handful of people who remembers this thing even existed I'm going to do my best here!

Asimo fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 20, 2014

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




All I recall of Ironclaw was that it was a perfectly mediocre and completely forgettable fantasy heartbreaker... but with furry races and art. If it weren't for that latter part it would have been forgotten a decade ago.

Okay, and also the hilariously copyright-infringing original cover. That was hard to forget.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Really, when you have a game that focuses around "and that spirit animal inside you is reeeeal (also bestiality is cool and natural)" it's kind of silly to think it wouldn't attract a certain... audience, regardless of whatever mythic themes you wanted to present.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Ah, huh, I must have missed one then. :v: Well, it was over a decade ago and I don't own any of it anymore, so was working off my feeble memory. Most of the sources for Z-G sort of vanished off the internet a while back.

I will never stop boggling at the progression of "transgressive adult sci-fi" to "collectable action figures", though.

EDIT: Some further digging turned up another old review page for it though. More Timbrook art there.

Asimo fucked around with this message at 05:35 on May 21, 2014

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




That makes a worrying amount of sense yeah, and I vaguely remember hearing something similar.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

Part Two: Too many goddamn :words:



Where we left off, I was talking about how Exile almost came about and the weird history of its development at White Wolf and the Null Foundation. Today, we'll be going through the playtest documents and looking at what was actually look at the setting information and introductory materials. When I quote the material, I'll try and mention whether it's from the HTML playtest stuff on archive.org or from the PDF draft.

PDF Draft posted:

This early version of Exile is an incomplete rough draft and contains limited setting information (with none at all on the Grange). This is simply a first edition of the rules and character creation.
Well we're off to a good start, since this isn't really true. There's some setting information in that draft! And a lot more in the HTML draft too. Even some introductory fiction, as pretty typical for White Wolf books... despite the claims in the prospectus that Null-F was trying to avoid doing Another Vampire, there's still some similarities here.

We open with a form letter...

HTML Draft posted:

Dear Madam or Sir,

The Immigration and Census council of the Hegemony regrets to inform you that you have been selected for Relocation. We urge you to embrace this fact as an opportunity to achieve greater advancement in your life. Though life is certainly pleasurable here in Trinary, we have the utmost confidence that you will find success beyond this system.
Makes sense really; the game wouldn't be called "Exile" if the characters weren't... exiled. The letter goes into some detail on how long the newly-Exile has until they're forcibly relocated, and there's mention of resources being set aside to make the "transition" simpler... but it's abundantly clear that this is going to be a one-way trip.

The draft goes on with a second letter from a presumably sympathetic source, noting that the setting information is done in-character as a "Manifesto" for characters who are newly Exiled. There's some differences between the drafts here, but the idea is gotten across simply enough. The first is that "Trinary" is effectively a paradise, and you've been kicked out of it. And...

HTML Draft posted:

In the Grange, Books are not so uncommon. Here, they are neither illegal nor burned. We trust books over the Artifex because they do not tell us what we want to hear, they only record what others have spoken. That is why we have chosen this medium to pass on our ideas to you.

PDF Draft posted:

Possession of this book inside the Hegemony will result in your immediate Banishment. If you are not already an Exile, read this at your own risk. Do not open this within sight of any type of T-fex, whether its your Valet or your Drudge. If you are captured, delay revealing who passed this on to you until they have a chance to escape.
... regardless of that, it's also a totalitarian dictatorship where thoughtcrime is taken quite seriously, and deportation to the hostile depths of space is the gentle punishment.

Like most White Wolf games, that there's a fuckload of jargon that you're expected to internalize before RPing. :v: The drafts diverge a bit here... the HTML draft starts with the glossary, and for the sake of sanity I'll drop it here first before we delve into the rest.

HTML Draft posted:

Grange-Argot
We have our own language out here -- the faster you learn it, the faster you fit in. Slang changes quickly out here, so words go in and out of style all the time.
  • Breed -- The particular mutation of homo sapien you are...
  • Dreug -- shipmate, close companion.
  • Nob -- Someone who still honors the ways of the hegamony and actively supports and serves their syndics. A fighting word.
  • Wreck -- To kill someone. "I'm going to wreck him."
  • Slag -- Ruined machina and artifex of any kind. Also used as a swear word for humans, "What a Slager"
  • Baba -- Familial term of endearment. Friend. "Hey Baba, whats up?"
  • Vibe -- Trancer term for party
  • Cretchen -- Someone from Diadar. Because they were born and raised in a cretch
  • Gaunch -- Slang for looser. Originally, execution by impalement, the favored mode of execution out here on many colonies and waysations. Subjects of the Gaunch are typically left up for a week or more as a reminder to the local population as to the rule of the Viceroy.
  • Flame Job -- Stardiving, typically coming out of a star, not going in.
  • Primates -- Slang for exotics, any non hegamony human stemming off from the classic Homo form.
  • Null-Cant -- The every evolving pidgin tongue used by many in the Grange, a polyglot amalgam of many languages first brought together by star traders hundreds of thousands of years ago and in constant evolution ever since.
  • Exarch -- A Hegemony big shot
  • Roaches -- Primates that have escaped their planet and joined civilization, and somehow manage to live aboard ships and waystations.
  • Skin-II's -- Slang for an Ulster, the protection gear you'd better get used to wearing all the time when you're in space.
  • Horde -- the common name for the barbarians who plague civilization
  • Scourge -- A nanotech plague, which has destroyed entire worlds. It plagues the barbarians and is the source of innumerable plagues.
  • The Rack ñ Nickname for the RDIS cleansing system that most waystations use t clease all those who enter to prevent infection.
  • Tellurian -- A human from and still on earth, or anything of and from earth.\
  • Go Tactical -- You get aggresive in combat, turn off your navifex and go into manual mode.
  • Quotha -- A rediscovered anarchic slang, "indeed"
  • Proxy -- A standin for someone who has been exiled. In returned of being exiled in their stead, they are given considerable sums of money.
  • Looper -- An explorer or surveyer. Someone who explores systems and planets surface in search of salvage, history or in preparation for a colony.
  • Outlander -- An oldtimer who habituates the outer grange and is rarely seen in the near stars.
Honorifics
While the ancient honorifics are still used here in the Grange, few of us them in the traditional style.
  • Qua -- Though some still use Qa at the end of the name of an elder, it has been bastardized to use to call someone you don't know.
  • Ba -- Still used by many when speaking with their peers, Ba has muted into the colloquial term, Baba.
  • Nuen -- Few in the grange still use Noune with their inferiors, because out here, no one considers themselves inferior. Don't use Nuen unless you want to get into a fight.
Got all that? No? Sorry. Especially since the PDF draft has a different and slightly more useful list. :geno: For brevity I'll omit the ones that are already in the other draft.

PDF Draft posted:

• Hegemony — The galactic government that controls humanity within the inner worlds.
• Exile — One who has been ordered out of the Hegemony and forbidden to return.
• Trinary — The three star system at the heart of the Hegemony. Viewed as the hub of civilization.
• Diadar — The paradise world that serves as the capitol of the Hegemony.
• Hegamon — The leaders and politicians of the Hegemony. Rulers of the worlds of Trinary.
• Godhead — The huge central processing matrix of the Hegemonic administration.
• Solon — The highly advanced robotic servants of the Godhead.
• Stardiving — Hyperspace travel accomplished by diving into stars.
• Star Spires — The huge stardiving spaceships of the Hegemony that transport smaller ships through stardives. They still operate but are not as vital as they once were due to the discovery of the Icarus Drive.
• Null-Space — The mysterious time and space between stars during a stardive.
• Pactum Weal — The ancient treaty that is the basis for the Hegemony.
• Syndics — Groups and Affiliations that hold power and influence in the Hegemony and beyond.
• Artifex — The robotic servants of humanity. Often referred to as T-fex.
• Lode — The robotic brains of the Artifex.
• Cule — Artifex data storage spools.
• Prelate — The highest political office in the Hegemony. Chairperson of the Hegemonic council.
• Consul — Second highest political office in the Hegemony that deals with treaties and the military.
• Lemmings — The small ships that attach themselves to the stardiving vessels just after they begin their plunge and in so doing piggyback through the hyperspace travel. While some ships have defence systems to thwart this, it is difficult to ward off Lemmings once a dive has begun. If too many ships attempt to Lemming, all will be destroying in the fires of the sun, including the Stardiver.
• Ulster — Spacesuit. Your second skin in space.
• Diaspora — The colonization of the galaxy by humanity... Also the term for the collective sum total of all the colonies and all of humanity about the galaxy.
• Horde — The common name for the barbarians who plague civilization and tear at the Hegemony’s borders.
• Parsec — A Parsec is considered to be the distance between two Suns, the distance jump technology can take you. Sometimes multiple Parsecs are required to reach certain locations. Hence, distances are referred to as four parsecs distant or six parsecs off.
• Grange — Our home. Your home. The so called Frontier, beyond the great barrier, beyond the borders of the Hegemony and beyond the reach of their oppression.
... Yeah, there's almost no overlap between the two. :suicide: I think the PDF draft is a later iteration, which makes some sense; there's a lot of terms that come up often (like "ulster") that don't show up in the earlier glossary. On the other hand it has a lot less setting information... well, anyway, try and remember both of these when I quote other sections I guess!

In addition to the glossary, the PDF draft goes into some terminology on the robots and computers of the setting, giving them a few paragraphs of explanation. Artifex are robotic servants, specifically the sentient sorts. The text helpfully goes on to mention that their lives are horrible and they struggle to find some sort of unique identity. Lodes are essentially the AI computers, complicated enough that only the Hegemony can create them. They come in seven grades, with the seventh being almost as intelligent as humanity. Cules are hard drives and memory banks, but in spaaaace. :shrug:

Next time: Something that's more than just copy-pastes of dumb jargon!

Asimo fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 21, 2014

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Halloween Jack posted:

Thank you for doing Exile. I remember the announcement in InQuest magazine, which gave it a short blurb declaring that the creator of Vampire was making a game where you travel through space in a gimp suit. I remember seeing some HTML and PDF documents floating around the web and skimmed them, but I could never tell if these were official, seriously-for-real designer notes, or some fan collaboration to make a playable game with only a basic concept to go on. I suppose both are true!
At this point I'm not quite sure if the PDF drafts I have were altered/edited later. The draft on archive.org doesn't really have much in the way of rules, but there are some actual basic chargen and playtesting stuff that I know I saw back in the day, so I can definitely say most of it is actual work by Null Foundation. It's easy to see why you'd think it was a fan effort though. Big public playtests like this just weren't really done back then, especially in the era of webrings and dial-up.

Also, now I miss Inquest. :smith: I think it also got a brief mention in Arcane, or whatever that short-lived British gaming magazing in the 90's was.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Young Freud posted:

I'm starting to notice a lot of similarities to Greg Saunders' In Flames, particularly the "kicked-out-of-a-posthuman-paradise" premise.
A little bit! It's not a unique idea in sci-fi, even if I can appreciate the idea of transhumanism not being all wine and godhead. I'm mocking bits of Exile here and there, but to be honest the premise to the game was fairly clever and there was definitely room for a storygame-style sci-fi outing in the late 90's.

I'm not sure about the company politics going on at the time, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Aeon/Trinity directly or indirectly derived a lot from Exile's development, if only in giving the WW staff some motivation to try a sci-fi game. They're rather different games mind you, having almost nothing in common in theme and setting, and completely different rulesets (Trinity using a storyteller-spinoff, while Exile having a new ruleset)... but the "black-covered spiral-bound corebook" thing in the Exile draft is almost identical to the initial Aeon print run, and the game came out in 1997, not too long after Rein·Hagen split with the company. :tinfoil:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

•Part Three: The Great Splats Syndics•



It should probably go without saying that a late 90's game being developed by White Wolf staffers divides the important players of the setting into high school cliques character classes specific political groups with their own goals and special stats and powers. Why should Exile be any different? While the HTML draft has a lot more setting information presented before this, I'm starting with the Syndics here. It's probably more interesting than some of the rest, and it helps give a good idea of the sort of themes we'll be looking at here. The three we'll cover here are the exotics, basically genetically engineered or alien subraces, while the rest we'll get into later are there careers for people who don't have scrambled DNA. They're all considered "Syndics" in character generation though.

•Androgynes•

HTML Draft posted:

We used to see the beautiful people of the Androgyne on Diadar, lounging in the gardens, performing on the spool dramas, officiating at the Ceremonies. They were the creatures of artifice and desire, genetically engineered for elegance and sensitivity -- arguably, the most wondrous of the Exotic species. Their very faces entranced us, disturbed our sleep with strange, hot dreams. More beautiful, more desirable than human.
Short version: they're the Toreador, but genetically engineered to intersex or sexless. They originated as a sex slave race for the elite in Diadar society and were only liberated a few centuries ago. They soon joined mainstream society, and focused heavily on charisma, manipulation, and appearance the social fields, and "they have excelled, earning renown as arbitrators, diplomats and performers."

PDF draft posted:

Apart from their roles as mediators; a talent that can possibly be attributed to their exceptional communication skills and obvious physical beauty, the Androgyne spend much of their energy in artistic pursuits. As objects of beauty themselves, they hold art in all its forms in high regard. The most famous media stars, models and actors have all been Androgyne.
Naturally, as ~beautiful socialites~ they're also a bunch of treacherous backstabbers and spies, but aside from a bit of distrust nobody really minds because they make such beautiful works of at. Oh yeah, they also have limited shapechanging and addictive pheromones. :stonk:

PDF draft posted:

Anyone who has had close contact with Androgyne can attest to their natural allure. As part of their physiology, they produce a wide array of complex pheromones that they use to carefully manipulate the emotional states of those around them as well as accentuate the reactions their appearance engenders in others. There has been much evidence to support the theory that their pheromones possess an addictive quality. The more you time you spend with an Androgyne, the more time you wish to spend with them. They are doppelgangers of a sort, yet their shape-shifting abilities are limited to sexual characteristics and minor appearance changes. They can intuitively and subtly alter their appearance to more closely resemble their target's conception of the perfect mate. This often leads to almost sacred bonding between mates.
I've mentioned I find it rather hilarious that this setting was eventually twisted into a collectible action figure game aimed at kids, right? :v: Well. Moving on...

•Sark Saron•
Only mentioned in the PDF, so maybe excised in the later setting drafts? In any case,

PDF Draft posted:

On the distant world of Sarkon, the Sark'Saron were born, the result of a genetic experiment to create the perfect soldier. The Sark'Saron are the oldest of the exotics, their birth lying far back in the dim reaches of perhaps the second aeon. No records are known to exist that detail the earliest creation and implementation of the Sark'Saron, but the evidence of their origins can be found in their DNA: they are a genetic construct, an uplifted race derived from some long lost reptilian species. Who created them and how they were made remains a mystery.
Uplifted lizard-people. They're big and strong and work in mercenary groups. They're driven by the "need to survive", and it's mention they've survived multiple genocide attempts in the past through sheer stubbornness. They also have a drive for self-sacrifice towards their family and kin that "borders on martyrdom". They also have little influence in or interest in politics, and have a "strong devour the weak" sort of ethic, as a passive demeanor or injury can awaken their predatory instincts. But they have earned the respect of even rabid anti-exotics due to being violent and scary their renowned ferocity.

Overall, a pretty :effort: race.

•Starborn (Reisir)•

PDF Draft posted:

There are few Exotic races within the Hegemony that elicit as much speculation and wonder, as the Reisir: the Starborn. Possibly the natural evolutionary outcome of humanity's expansion into the stars, they have become especially suited to an extra-planetary existence. Starborn musculature is light, yet highly flexible. Their skeletal structure has been replaced with cartilaginous tissues but, they are considerably more durable than their slight frames would suggest. They are so well adapted to the rigors of space that they are capable of enduring exposure to hard vacuum for up to ten minutes with their reflective skins being temperature withholding and radiation resistant. They have hairless, smooth skinned bodies with long limbs and large eyes, resembling in many ways pearlescent skinned children.
They've evolved/been genetically engineered to handle space and low gravity pretty well. This works out good for them considering most of the setting takes place in space and all, so they have access to large amounts of orbital mining and other lucrative enterprises that give them wealth and influence in excess of their small numbers. While they handle space well, they need gravity harnesses and ulsters to handle normal planetary gravity. They have low fertility and a weak immune system, and often live nomadic lifestyles.

Yeah, there's some overlap with Mass Effect's Quarians there, but there's still a few differences. For one thing, everyone in the setting gets fetishwear space gimpsuits they almost never take off! :downs:

Anyway, they're initially descended from a single lineage and tend to consider each other family, and have a procedure that can change most human races into Starborn if you wanted to be a pearl-skinned space kid. For some reason they also have wide rage of speech, and...

PDF draft posted:

Their names are long intricate songs of ancestry and heraldry, combining their ultra and sub-sonic speech with coruscating colour patters radiated from the sacs of bioluminescent organelles located on either side of their head.
... they're probably really weird to talk to. They also have "peerless tactical skills", as demonstrated when the alien Bak’Sakusa species attempted to wipe them out, which went rather poorly for them. The Reisir seem to hold no grudge for it, but the Bak’Sakusa definitely do.

Next time: More Syndics! Do you want a job?

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Halloween Jack posted:

Is "wine and godhead" tramshumanism really much of a thing in gaming, though? Eclipse Phase is very much concerned with horror and the parts of its setting that aren't post-scarcity, Shock is, I suppose, more about getting along in an egalitarian society. I can't think of any games off the top of my head that concern themselves with epic-scale transhumanism where the technology is so advanced that it's indistinguishable from magic, like the Dancers at the End of Time, Lord of Light, or Jodorowsky's work. (There's a Metabarons roleplaying game, but you don't play as the Metabarons.)

I only skimmed the alpha document of Exile, but I got the impression that the PCs were booted out of a godlike science fantasy paradise, but that unlike the protagonists of an Eclipse Phase game, they're very much free to explore the vast reaches of space relying on their Artifex to automagically nanofabricate what they need.

I like JG Timbrook a lot, by the way. The official clan illustrations that replaced his in the V20 book are awful.
It's not something that comes up often in RPGs, no. Not even that often in fantasy gaming, except for the occasionally explicitly evil super-powerful empire thing that the PCs are allied against rather than refugees from. I was actually really, really annoyed when Exile never panned out, since I've always thought sci-fi gaming needed to pull more from Foundation than from Star Wars, and White Wolf's Trinity was ultimately a far more conservative, "safer", and frankly less interesting game. Honestly if it was worked on in the early naughts rather than the late 90's it might have fared a bit better, both for the game industry being in a different place but also by being able to better leverage its heavy web presence to build a fandom. But, well, so it goes.

theironjef posted:

Like, imagine if it was called "Gay Pirates" and had a picture of the SS Manhandler on the cover, and the subtitle was "Gay Adventures in the Swashbuckling Age of Gay Piracy." Well I'm bi myself, and a lot of the characters I play in games are gay. But if I was going to be playing a game called "Gay Pirates" I'd want to get special powers for being a bear as opposed to an otter, because holy crap, it's the whole point of the game! Just like in Furry Pirates, where I would want special powers for being a bear, as opposed to an otter.
This is the best analogy.

Asimo fucked around with this message at 19:01 on May 22, 2014

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Really, I'd be more willing to assume they're just bad game designers rather than having some exploitative intent, yeah. Occam's razor, etc. :geno:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




LeSquide posted:

Sadly, that book didn't do it particularly well.
Part of this was it coming out, what, a month before 3.5 hit while still using the 3e rules? If I remember there were some basic conversion stuff in it, but there were just enough differences between the rules to make most of the stuff in Savage Species broken or unusable.

Also the usual grognard hate for things that are different or experimental, but well. :v:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Ryuujin posted:

Don't forget that Sean K. Reynolds, aka must nerf monks whenever I can, apparently had something to do with the book. And has more or less gone on record of saying that he purposefully made options terrible so that no one would actually play as monsters.
Yeah, pretty much. There was really no reason to ever play most monster races with ECL considering what you give up in class levels, let alone the ever important caster levels.

Ironically this is something Basic handled a lot better thanks to the "race=class" thing and much simpler rules. The Gazetteers and Creature Crucibles added all sorts of exotic options that weren't horribly imbalanced due to this.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Bieeardo posted:

I've been thinking of doing the Crucibles for F&F, maybe starting sometime next month. Sea Giant PCs always struck me as particularly weird because, not only did they start off far below Normal Monster hit dice and potency, RAW they were children. 'Burst into tears the first time you get hit for damage' was a roleplay suggestion somewhere in the book, which didn't help. Nothing that rewriting them as callow adolescents about to hit a Hell of a growth spurt wouldn't fix.

I think someone took the class/level titles a little too prescriptively. I've always wondered if that's why 1st level BECMI clerics didn't get spells.
That would be pretty awesome, yeah. I pondered doing them myself, but I haven't played Basic in fifteen years or so, so I'm not sure I could do the rule writeups justice. I like doing writeups for stuff that are older or more forgotten anyway; the history of RPG design and the industry is pretty interesting, but doesn't come up that often.

Count Chocula posted:

Is there a game based on Ian M Banks Culture books yet? The premise is tailor-made for gaming. You play Special Circumstances or Contact agents, either genetically superior posthumans or sentient AI drones, and you're sent on missions outside your posthuman paradise.
Not... to my knowledge yeah, at least nothing with a specific setup like that. There's always a bit of a problem with getting people interested in high-concept Sci-fi settings too. They tend to be very interesting to read, but often hard to play in since you need to get everyone involved together on a very esoteric sort of page. You can see some of this in the early complaints about Transhuman Space, where people had no idea what to do with it in practice despite there being an excess of potential plot hooks.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Count Chocula posted:

The Culture books handle that, though. There's a whole organization that recruits people or AI with interesting talents (the PCs) and sends them on missions to make contact with more primitive civilizations. There's your game.
Yeah, but it's still an intimidating sort of setup. I mean, part of the reason D&D and most fantasy heartbreakers do so well is everyone who's even vaguely a geek knows how "generic fantasy" works, what sort of tropes exist, what sorts of characters fit, and so on. Sci-fi doesn't really have that sort of cultural focus. There's a large number of specific settings people know (Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc.), but they're all very different from each other thematically and even more diverged from a lot of literary sci-fi that a game like that would pull inspiration from. It's not an insurmountable problem, but there's still a reason why most of the successful sci-fi RPG properties have been the licensed games or ones that intentionally mimic a popular property.

Would still be a fun game though, definitely.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

•Part Four: Yet More Great Syndics•



When we left off before, we were talking about the Syndics, the major factions and power blocs in the setting that also convenient double as player character groups. This time we'll be going into the careers, the Syndics that focus around who you're working with rather than what you are.

•The Armada•

HTML Draft posted:

The Armada is the most ancient of all the Syndics, a legacy that is upheld with the most intense commitment.

Defenders of the Hegemony's borders, the Armada sees itself as the most powerful and disciplined fighting force in the galaxy, dedicated and untarnished guardians of the Republic. Their massive fleets have stood watch at the Barricade for eons, protecting the Hegemony from the ever-circling barbarians and other invaders.

<<< Legend has it that long ago the Dreadnoughts imploded all the suns at the Hegemony's borders so that invaders couldn't launch an attack through them. The Armada still patrols this Barricade of brown dwarves, but now forays beyond them as well, into the Grange. >>>
The space navy. :911: Rather than a force of enlisted volunteers, they're almost more like a social caste; entire families are born into the Armada and become soldiers or officers when they become of age, repeating the process throughout the centuries. They have an aristocratic white man's burden expectation of honor, politeness, and efficiency, and many Hegemonic positions are held by Armada members. They aren't often Exiles but they still have a great deal of interaction with them by virtue of being found at the edge of Hegemonic space, defending its borders.

The fleets of the Armada are focused around the (four or seven, depending on the draft) Dreadnoughts, massive vessels capable of smashing entire planets to rubble or destabilizing a star. While effectively invulnerable, the ability to construct these dreadnoughts has been lost to history, and is one of the few overt signs of the creeping decline of the Hegemony. They also employ numerous smaller ships, and these are the ones most often seen in the Grange as the Dreadnoughts themselves are usually pressed into service against the alien Horde instead. The public doctrine is that the war will be over shortly and the aliens are outmatched, but it's been running for over seventy years now and the Exiles know that it's effectively a stalemate. But the resources and matériel surplus being fed into the Armada is one of the things that keeps the Grange supplied and economically sound...

The drafts actually take different routes with the enemies the Armada are fighting. The html draft focuses more on the Horde being "barbarians" and aliens who are resisting the Hegemony from outside, while the PDF draft offers some other threats...

PDF Draft posted:

A particular branch of the Navy, not as well known as it's associate branches, who's true purpose remains a closely guarded military secret is the Substellar Corps. Mistakenly referred to as the Submariners, they have the highest casualty rate of all the Navy branches, both physically and mentally. Their sleek, heavily armed, specially designed Null-Ships ply the pathways of Nullspace. What their mission is and what they face the Navy refuses to elaborate upon. Rumours abound of encounters with an extra-dimensional alien presence somehow related to black holes. Of all Naval branches, the Substellar Corps has the largest concentration of Voidians.

•The Vanguard•

HTML Draft posted:

*** The Vanguard uses "bug icons" -- beetles, mantises, ants -- in its ship and uniform designs, and these should be used as the Micrographics. Ulster helmets are stylized bug heads consistent with their division. These designs aren't as ornate as the Armada; more functional style than a concerted effort to look imposing. ***

Brash, violent and coarse, Vanguard Legionnaires are both feared and respected in the Grange. They pride themselves on being the premier close combat personnel, and out here where deeds hold more weight than words, that pride is justified. They constantly save entire systems from Horde incursion -- and worse -- and never admit fear. Still, their unmatched zeal and determination has given them a reputation for being relentless and bloodthirsty.

<<< They're as likely to tear through an independent colony or subjugate an Exotic world "on orders" as help against the Horde menace. Many of their atrocities are committed under orders from Praetors commanding Vanguard forces (and a lot of them are petty despots using Legionnaires to enforce their vision of order). >>>
If the Armada is the space navy, the Vanguard are the space marines. :clint: ... er, not in the WH40K sense, but there's still a bit of that in there too. Still, while the Armada is elegant and calculating and probably all talk with sinister British accents, the Vanguard is aggressive and emotional. They're the ones who do the fighting planetside, with the equivalents of modern infantry and armored vehicles, often landed through dropships.

They have a bit of a rivalry with the Armada, thinking them effete ivory-tower sorts while the legions of the Vanguard does all the actual work. They have less political power due to being recruits rather than hereditary officers in close with the Hegemony leadership. But the Armada has the ships, and everyone knows it'd probably be the Vanguard putting dissidents against the wall, so everyone plays nice. Mostly.

•The Diplomatic Service (The Interior Ministry)•

HTML Draft posted:

<<< If information is power, then the Diplomatic Service is power, for there is little that happens in the Hegemony that the Interior Ministry does not know about or is not directly involved in. >>>

The Interior Ministry exists as part of a mundane political office attached to the Hegemonical Council, charged with performing duties of diplomacy in the name of the Hegemony and providing advanced information services for the state. Their influence reaches far beyond the limits of their public activities. They have existed as a shadow power behind the Hegemony since its birth and have endured radical political change from century to century. The Diplomatic Service, in one form or another, has survived every major episode in the growth of the Hegemony, from coups and revolutions to pogroms and purges.

<<< Forget all you ever heard that was good or just about the DS. Remember all the rumors and stories you heard whispered. >>>
They're the space spies and secret police, one part James Bond and three parts KGB. :commissar: In addition to the overt diplomatic services with the Grange governments, factions within the Hegemony, and outside races, they also take a very active role in Hegemony affairs and effectively function as a shadow government. The Diplomatic Service organizes coups, presents propaganda, arranges pogroms of undesirables (like most of our Exile PCs), and otherwise engages in large scale social engineering and terror programs in order to preserve the status quo of the Hegemony. They're arguably the most powerful Syndic simply due to the political clout they can call to bear in other to make the other Syndics do what they want, and their unlucky enemies get "vanished" into secret prisons or shallow graves rather than the relatively gentle punishment of exile.

•Bak' Sakusa•

PDF Draft posted:

The Bak’ Sakusa cannot be underestimated on any degree.
The spiritual warriors of the Bak’ Sakusa both enlighten and confuse on many levels. They are fierce fighters, yet their poems and art praise peace and harmony. They embrace war, and yet desire serenity. A Bak’ Sakusa war party unleashes a wild orgy of destruction and violence, yet their society is highly controlled through strict moral codes.

HTML Draft posted:

*** B/G graphic: The glyph of the Bak'Sakusa is a wheel with anunusually wide hub and four spokes which extend past thecomparatively narrow wheel rim, becoming weapon blades. Ingeneral, think of Indian and Arabic iconography for the -- forthe glyph, for example, think of Krishna's Wheel of Karma,Buddha's Wheel of Suffering, Gandhi's spinning wheel -- and coveras much surface as possible with ornamental details like "Arabic"script or fine carving or lathework. The weapon blades juttingfrom the spokes should look particularly nasty and baroque --keep the Asian motif with curving or wavy lines, but also feelfree to add barbs, hooks, and weapon-catching blades. They should look razor-sharp and alien, making the wheel as a wholereminiscent of some kind of Clive Barker chainsaw. If detailpermits, hub may be "etched" with the caste mark of theMawwachadi [see sketches]. Color: (all in subdued tones to allow for text to run across) rim and hub are gold, each spoke iscolored differently: green, blue, red, gray.
Space barbarians! ... We'll politely ignore the connotations of rampaging oriental hordes. :eng99:

A millennium ago, five fanatical and feuding tribes were exiled from the Hegemony, thrown onto a planet at the edge of known space with the expectation that they'd kill each other and keep their problems out of Hegemon politics. This almost worked as planned, as the families murdered each other for centuries... until eventually and finally they were united under a single warlord, and became Bak’ Sakusa, the “Five Families”.

PDF Draft posted:

Caste and your position in it determine everything from monetary gains to sexual roles(where Caste determines who the aggressor is sexually). This often leads to problems with other cultures since the Bak’ Sakusa consider themselves "above" all non-Bak’ Sakusa.
Having internal peace didn't make them not dicks, though. And yes, yet more questionably rapey material. :what: Their aggressive culture has only gotten more focused in their centuries of exile, and while they focus on challenges of art and sport among their own kind, but go right back to aggressive conquest with outside groups, with conquered peoples being turned into literal slave labor. They've long since broken away from their planet of exile and are building their own empire to try and match the Hegemony; it was only the unified effort of the other Syndics that kept the Grange from getting overrun. They have the largest military force of any Syndic except the Armada and Vanguard, and the Diplomatic Service quietly suspects their production capacity will outpace the Hegemony in only a few years.

The only saving grace is that they're nominally still members of the Hegemony, and haven't blatantly tried attacking the core worlds. This is small consolation to the Exiles in the Grange of course, and basically the Bak' Sakusa are assholes who nobody really likes. But they're available as a PC option! :downs:

Next Time: Even more Syndics! There's a lot more of these than I remembered...

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

•Part Five: The rest of the Syndics•



Like I mentioned before, there's sure a lot of these. :toot: It's probably for the best anyway... Exile looked like it could have been a rather big setting, encompassing a large region of space, so it's good to have a lot of character options. And a lot of factions to cause trouble with...

•Common Weal•

PDF Draft posted:

The Syndic of the Common Weal is a dedicated adherent to the founding treaty of the Pactum Weal. This collection of worlds has upheld the standards and ethics of the Pactum Weal even after the disruptive rise of the Pax Republica.
The Common Weal has existed for millennium, and has prospered; flourishing on a large number of worlds, becoming in their time, the greatest colonialists of the Hegemony. Unfortunately, their belief in large families and multiple brood births has lead to their worlds overpopulation.
Mentioned but not given a writeup in the HTML draft, the Common Weal are, well, space nobility. The Pactum Weal was the original treaty made millennium ago that brought the assorted Syndics together into the Hegemony, and they take great advantage of being one of the "old" power groups. While the actual population of the Syndic stretches all the social strata, in theory everyone under it is part of a massive interconnected noble family, even the serfs and paupers in the street. Not that this does much for them beyond an insufferable ego. Of course the actual "Aristos" live in isolated worlds to themselves, mingling with the common people only on rare occasions. Even within the Hegemony politics and innuendo are still weapons, and a public blunder can quickly sink the fortunes of Aristo. Also...

PDF Draft posted:

The Aristos pursue lives of comfort and pleasure, valuing wealth more than glory. The practice of taking multiple spouses and lovers is practiced by both males and females in the Weal. While it is illegal for anyone of the underclass to have more than three spouses, this law is difficult to enforce.
Ah, White Wolf Null Foundation. :geno: In any case, you can probably figure out how the rest of this goes. Arrogant, aristocratic, and somewhat inbred... there's a lot of connections between them and the leadership of the Armada as well. Their greatest secret is that they harbor a small population of Virago - individuals who received extensive treatments to become effectively immortal. This is in flagrant violation of Hegemony law, and it's only their political clout and closeness to the Armada that keeps them from falling under suspicion. Although it's quite possible many of the other Syndics are controlled behind the scenes by the Virgao as well, and help deflect suspicion...

•Pax Republica•

HTML Draft posted:

This relative newcomer to Hegemony politics was born during the Ongzer Rebellion almost 200 years ago. Organized by youthful intellectuals and idealists among the head count of Trinary, the revolution shook the Hegemony to its very foundations and resulted in sweeping changes throughout the galaxy.

The Ongzer Rebellion found its roots in the oppressive Virago oligarchy which ruled the Hegemony for millennia. The rebels rose up as one and executed every last immortal and royal official they could get their hands on.

Though in danger of crumbling at any moment, the rebellion was sustained by its leaders' cleverness and passion. Word and ships spread quickly to nearby systems, frightening the existing gerentocracies into flight. Brutal but decisive victories placed the revolutionaries in the position of Syndic founders in a few weeks. By the time these rebels-cum-diplomats arrived at the Hegemony Senate on Diadar, they represented nine star systems.

<<< It's amazing such widespread bloodshed was not stopped by the Hegemony's military forces. I can see something like that out here, but there in the Core Worlds? Just goes to show that the Hegemony isn't as omnipotent as a lot of folks think. >>>
If the Hegemony is an ancient oligarchy, the Republicans were and are the rebels who attempted to shake the foundations of civilization and rebuild it in a better form. :ussr: While they didn't really succeed the plot was effective enough at its main goals; the immortals who ran the Hegemony were executed and the Hegemonic Council was forced to pass laws that banned anti-aging treatments. While the revolution gained them a great deal of respect from the underclass, it didn't last very long... toppled within a few years by a new revolution, and again, in bloody purges. Eventually, the Republica that remained in control became a corrupt ruling class themselves, and while they have traditions of equality there's a lingering hypocritical power-mongering controlling bent in the leadership of the Republica. While they're still a strong power in the Hegemony, most of the other Syndics consider them dangerous and murderous idealists.

•The Consortium•

PDF Draft posted:

Trade and Artifex are the engines of the Hegemony; the blood and bone that bind it together. All Syndics engage in trade in one form or another and almost all utilize Artifex, but no other Syndic has become as integral a part to Hegemony finance and well being as the Consortium.
The Consortium has become such a key figure in the galactic economy that if it were to fall, it would most likely take the entire Hegemony with it. By being the primary loan agency to a vast majority of the great Syndics and producing over 60% of the manufactured goods within the Hegemony they can exert great influence over the Inner worlds and beyond.
The Consortium owes this dominance to its intimate relationship with Artifex. Among all of Humanity, only the Consortium are fully qualified to manufacture Artifex. Only the Consortium understands the many layers of robotic nuances and the exact processes required to create new Artifex and lodes.
Too big to fail investment banking... in space! :homebrew: Instead of being cunning and greedy sorts (see the Cartel in a moment for that...), the Consortium are typically precise and calculating, working together in careful organization rather than risking individuality, sort of high frequency trading in social form. Part of this is their closeness to the Artifex, the intelligent machinery ubiquitous to the Hegemony, but also because almost all of the Consortium is staffed by engineered clone lines. There are still individual variations, but the different lines and families are created with specific traits desirable to their intended business function, and every member of the Syndic is implanted with a Super Ego lode in their forehead, a gem-like device that shares their experiences and memories with their peers, allowing for rapid and unified response.

Despite this, there's still a lingering drive for individuality. The dress codes and regulations in Consortium regions are strict, but members often go out of their way to adopt unique appearances and demeanors when off duty, and tend to follow chaotic fashion trends and hedonistic hobbies.

•The Cartel (Versa Componae)•

HTML Draft posted:

<<< These individuals do not appreciate being called, "The Cartel". Instead they refer to themselves as the "Versa Componae" meaning , "Silent Family". >>>

Two things form the basis of the Versa Componae, greed and fear. Greed is for the members, fear is for those who are not members.

Greed.

In order to understand the "Cartel", you have to understand money. What must always be remembered is that we are, at heart, business people. In many respects we resemble the Consortium, loaning money and minding legitimate businesses. But, our desire for wealth surpasses the lust of any other Syndic. Our members will take advantage of every opportunity to increase their monetary wealth and crime is a justifiable means to an ends. In our world, money is power. And power is life.

Fear.

This aspect is simply about control. Who has it, and who doesn't. Fear is merely a tool to achieve control. Without control there can be no money. Without money there can be no power. And without power, life is worthless. Therefore, we must use fear if our efforts and our lives are to be preserved and rewarded.
One part Ferengi, one part La Cosa Nostra. Another major financial Syndic, but a far smaller and far less... reputable one. While theoretically honorable, this really only applies to other members of the Cartel; people in other Syndics can be cheated, threatened, and murdered as necessary. Their focus is more shipping as opposed to the Consortium's banking and construction, except it's heavily supplemented by ferrying contraband to and from the Grange, as well as the typical protection rackets and assassination schemes an organized crime group tends to get involved with. Mostly still a political power in the Hegemony due to the pretenses of "legitimate business"... as well as infiltrating most of the other Syndics behind the scene, giving them a spy network second only to the Diplomatic Service.

•Zae Zarandt•

PDF Draft posted:

Of all the religions of the Hegemony, few are as far ranging and widely accepted as the monks of the Zae Zarandt. Once a faction of philosophers on Diadar, they abandoned the linear logic of their fellows and sought their own path; a path of spirit and introspection intended to elevate them to the next step of spiritual evolution.
They equate the concept of spirit to life itself, seeing a complicated web of connectivity between all living things. They study this theoretical pattern in the form of a game of glass beads known as Quo. Through Quo the Zae gain wisdom and insight into human behaviour. To many, Quo seems to be nothing more than a confusing ritual, a game with no perceptible beginning or end. The game is studied intently by many throughout the Hegemony, especially among the Consortium who seem hard pressed to completely understand its nuances. In actuality, Quo is a working model of the evolution of life, from it's most basic levels to it's eventual outcome: the spiritual epiphany of humankind.
The Zae say the first game of Quo ever played, has never stopped, that the game continues on through time, on through the Zae Zarandt. Much of the Zae Zarandt life revolves around the game. It is a mental exercise and a tool for meditation. Great spiritual revelations can be achieved when contemplating the movements on the board.
Space monks, with non-deific meditation as religious philosophy. :catholic: Considered eccentric by most of the other Syndics, the Zae Zarandt welcome new acolytes... though few actually make it through the torturous physical trials of Zae-Dun, their martial meditative art. They also forsake personal wealth, the use of drugs and intoxic-

PDF Draft posted:

Many bodily needs can be met through the Zae's deep meditations; fasting, metabolism control, or auto-erotic sexual release.
... :ughh: Well, anyway. They also avoid the use of technology wherever possible, with many only ever using ships to travel infrequently, or grudgingly making use of an Ulster to survive on a station. Due to their reclusive and meditative habits, the Zae Zarandt are actually well-respected by the other Syndics, if mostly because they don't pose any appreciable political risk. Adherents are spread across the Hegemony and the Grange, and it's not clear if there's any real leadership at all.

•Voidians•

HTML Draft posted:

<<<The stars are alive, after their fashion. You and they share a common origin, the Void. See the seed of the stars within you. See face of the Void swimming under the Deep.>>>

Self-described as purveyors of mystery and the unspeakable, the Voidians defy attempts to classify them simply. Depending on who you talk to, they are scientists and priests, witch doctors and cosmologists, charlatans and oracles. On starships everywhere, the Voidians lead their inscrutable ceremonies, providing themselves and their crews with the enigmatic truths of !space, the map of stellar threads, and the unimaginable commandments of the Void Itself.

<<<VOID: a complex philosophical concept which is rarely defined and is usually represented as the primal, incomprehensible vastness of empty space, nothing and everything. Center of the Voidian religious system. See also: universe, universal unconscious, It.>>>
Creepy cultists obsessed with the darkness of empty space. The religion dates back almost into prehistory, during the initial diaspora of humanity into the cosmos. The specifics have changed over time, but it's almost entirely made up of people who've spent the majority of their lives in space, regardless of origin and profession. A worrying number of the Armada follow their esoteric dogma, for example.

Rather than being overtly religious, the Voidians hide their spiritualism in scientific terms, with strange math and unusual quantum physics equations that point to "stellar threads", lines of space-time that twist connect the stars and create an elaborate three-dimensional megastructure that the adherents consult for navigation... and prophecy. They believe that attempting to perceive the truth only distorts it further, and terrible secret of space the mysteries of the Void will be forever unknown. They consider Suns to be gods or angels, and black holes to be demons, giving reverence to both as they hold ceremonies in open space, garbed in ceremonial Ulsters.

They have little direct political power as a group, but it's nearly impossible to work within the grange without meeting adherents. Something about working in the far reaches of space seems to draw people to their way of thinking... :tinfoil:

•Trancers•

HTML Draft posted:

We are the Trancers. We are the future.

Despite the best efforts of the authorities, our music has become the voice and mind of the young. We shape and we form the minds of tomorrow into our mind. The mass mind. The One Mind.

We were born upon Diadar less than eight years ago through the marriage of Pseudo Sensory Technology (Trancer Caps) and Trance music. Ours was a generation captured by purity and sound. Our music and visions spread quickly throughout the Hegemony from the highest minds to the lowest hearts. We burned too bright, such startling popularity was bound to draw the attention of the authorities. When questions of the potentially subversive nature of our Vibes arose in the Hegemonical Council, our founders were banished and our Gear was outlawed.

Many do not survive the Grange. Yet we have done more than survive, we have flourished. That which was meant to destroy us, has only made us stronger. Banishment validated our image as rebels thus enamoring the next generation with our ideals. Now our tide is felt throughout all worlds.
A small and recently formed Syndic, less than a decade old, that incensed the Hegemony enough that the entire movement was outlawed and Exiled. Maybe they just didn't like space ravers? :shrug: The Trancers inspired people to question the doctrines of the Hegemony, and some suspect they've done more to push the idea of rebellion more than the centuries-old purges of the Pax Republica ever did. They hope that through hedonism and spiritualism that people will be inspired, and that humanity will reach a new Renaissance that shatters the status quo.

A few Trancers remain on Diadar, but the ones in the Grange were into it before it was cool. :smug: As an almost purely Exile movement, the Trancers have no power in the Hegemony but are a major cultural force within the Grange, even if they have few actual allies outside a few sympathetic members of the Pax Republica and Cartel. And yeah, this is pretty much pure peak-90's Anarch-style White Wolf non-faction, but it actually kinda fits into Exile well especially considering the Hegemony's relatively tight control on culture and information.

Next time: We're done with the Syndics! But there's a whole lot of other setting information to go!

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Yeah, that pick in terminology was particularly baffling. Does make me wonder if there's more going on there that was unexplained, since the whole concept basically screams "we'll make a splatbook for this a bit later on", but at this point who knows.

And yeah, it's pretty clear from the assorted docs that Rein·Hagen expected the Null Cosm to be a "thing" like the World of Darkness, with different games focusing on different elements of the setting. So Exile coming first, then something about the Hegemony proper, and so on. This obviously never panned out.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Halloween Jack posted:

Maybe I need to read over the Exile updates more closely, but it seems to me like it's starting with a great premise but then nullifying it step-by-step. If the theme of the game is "You're exiled from a not-so-paradisal space empire, go explore this vast space frontier," why all the emphasis on Hegemony politics and factions?
Prrreeettttty much, yeah. :v: Granted, the drafts are very, very much incomplete and i'm trying to piece it together while admittedly skipping a bit here and there to cover later. Focusing on the syndics and their politics makes some sense since presumably the Exiles were part of all that before being exiled... but yeah, the infighting and politics really undermines the core themes of the hegemony having tight social and information control, and feels a bit like trying to mimic Vampire's politics without making sure it really fit.

There's also a lot of "life in the Grange" material I'll be covering next that fleshes out that side of things too.

Asimo fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 24, 2014

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

•Part Six: The world(s) of Exile•



While the Syndics are a major part of the setting, defining the political blocs that influence the Hegemony and the Grange as well the origin and skill sets of player characters, it obviously takes a lot more than that to make a setting. Unfortunately, there's a lot of differences between the drafts here, but I'll try and put forth something presentable and coherent. :v: Also note the quotes from the drafts in this review have a lot of spelling errors... which, you know, makes sense. I've only edited them where there were words stuck together or it's otherwise difficult to read.

•The Pactum Weal•

PDF Draft posted:

The Pactum Weal is the ancient treaty between the Syndics that lead to the formation of the Hegemony. This union of Syndics is the largest government in the galaxy. The Hegemony is comprised of over 700 star systems, and nearly 2,000 inhabited planets. The total population has never been calculated, but is assumed to exceed 100 trillion people.
As mentioned earlier, the Pactum Weal is essentially the foundation of the Hegemony. It covers a lot of space, a lot of people, and has existed in a roughly consistent form for thousands of years now. Almost all the Syndics that founded it have since changed, disbanded, or been destroyed over the millennium, and it's likely the current Syndics will die before the Hegemony does.

•The Hegemony•

PDF Draft posted:

In the fourth Aeon, the Hegemony is supreme amongst Humanity. It is both government and culture. A way of life and a stabilizing force. The Hegemony is the shining light of civilization that shields its citizens from the nightmares of space. It nurtures, it protects and it commands.
The center of the setting... in a very literal sense, even if the actual game takes place on its edges. In theory the Hegemony is a Republic; the government is run by a council of Hegemons, with each member world appointing a single Hegemon, and each Hegemon having a single vote. In practice since worlds are almost invariably owned and run by Syndics, the council is more like a collection of political parties that tend to vote in unison. War between worlds and Syndics within the Hegemony is allowed, but only as long as it's local and doesn't stabilize the stability of the Hegemony itself.

Almost all the Hegemons are individuals of fantastic wealth, personal power, and political might, as befitting someone who controls the entire population of a planet. 1700 years ago, the Hegemony adopted a policy that required Hegemons to relocate to Diadar in order to separate them from their people, bathe them in the opulence of the capital, and ensure their loyalty to the Syndics and the Hegemony.

•Diadar•

PDF Draft posted:

The crown jewel of the old regime is a modern paradise. Every want is granted, every hunger sated. There is no poverty, no crime, no hunger. Money is pointless, on this, the richest of worlds. An exotic and bountiful resort planet, Diadar is breathtakingly beautiful, endlessly entertaining and populated by slaves who seek only to serve your desires. It is the pinnacle of existence for mortal mankind.

There is no disease and no sickness on Diadar . There is no death on Diadar. At least no lasting death. Temporary death is remedied by squadrons of medical Artifex who are never more than a few scant minutes away. Duelling, while sanctioned within the Hegemony, is forbidden upon Diadar itself.
Named after the hero Jhakob Diados, the founder of the current Hegemony. It's amazing. And you're not allowed there anymore. Sucks to be you.

•The Virago•

HTML Draft posted:

<<<(Monzon Ezut speculation) We know that life extension and even immortality are theoretically possible, but if the artifex remember how it's done they won't tell us. Are there springs of strange, irradiated water, as the legends say? Are there ancient "miracle machines" buried somewhere in the ruins that will ensure immortality? Do you have to make a deal with the Scourge or the Anathema? Historical evidence that Diados's "invulnerability salve" really can introduce benign nano processes into a living organism (or could before Diadar was terraformed) indicates that there's a precedent for stranger things.>>>
For most of the Hegemony's life, the richest and most powerful were effectively immortal due to now-outlawed technology. While officially every last Virago was executed, several still survive and continue to subtly influence the Syndics behind the scenes. The most powerful and cunning have lived for a millennium or more... which presents a certain problem. The anti-aging treatments are quite effective but not quite perfect, and the surviving Virago are getting very old, a little senile, and very, very desperate.

•Cognates•
Clone "families" within Trinary. Some have hundreds or even thousands of members derived from the genetic materials and memories of a single individual, and many survive for centuries at a time. The process is of questionable legality, but having a clone line is how many of the wealthy achieve effective immortality while circumventing the anti-Virago laws. It's possible for individual clones to achieve legal independence, either voluntarily, or... you know, through that Exile thing.

•The Godhead•

HTML Draft posted:

You've heard of it your whole life, as both the all-knowing benevolent father of the Hegemony and the boogy man who knows all your secrets. The truth is, it's all that and more. The Artifex form a huge network of information. And constantly exchange data, both when we're looking and when we're not.

Bibliotechs are at the hub of it here in the Grange, but there are huge clusters of lodes on every Hegamony world where massive information exchanges take place daily. The true Godhead may be on Diadar, but its eyes are everywhere. Your Fex are constantly watching you, and you never know what they'll talk about with other fex and what will eventually get back to the Godhead.

<<< If your going to discuss something important, unplug your fex. >>>
The absolutely immense computational network at the heart of the Hegemony. The entire bureaucracy does all its work through the Godhead's systems; almost every network in the Hegemony runs through the Godehead; the entirety of mankind's history, media, and knowledge lies within its databases; and even the memories of thousands of the greatest heroes and scholars have been uploaded into its cores to guide it.

The name isn't entirely White Wolf melodramatic terminology. The Godhead is sapient.

Not in the way a human would recognize, mind you. It has thousands of individually intelligent cores, each in instantaneous sync. But it has a single will, and through it the Hegemony is run, regulated, overseen, and controlled. Even the Syndics probably do not quite realize the full scope of its information control, as the only individuals who ever communicate directly with it are Solons, the most advanced and intelligent Artifex.

•Citizenship•
Service guarantees citizenship. :patriot: The majority of people within the Hegemony are not technically citizens and lack assorted legal rights such as "cannot be summarily executed by the authorities for no reason at all". Slavery is legal as well, though slaves are almost invariably pulled from the underclasses or the Grange. Naturally, citizenship is a rather coveted sort of position.

•Exile•
On the downside, if a citizen fucks up really bad the authorities could do this instead of the execution thing. It can happen to non-citizens who only gently caress up a tiny bit, or who get unlucky enough to piss off the wrong sort of person.



•Space Travel and Null Space•

PDF Draft posted:

Travelling between solar systems is accomplished by plunging spacecraft into stars. This risky process is known as Stardiving. The combined effects of extreme amounts of energy and gravity allow for hyperspace travel. The actual experience of Stardiving has been described as a hyperlight stage of total mindwarp in which the illusion of reality is often shattered by your own consciousness. There are bizarre reports of unexplainable phenomena that pop up only to be suppressed by those who know better than to believe such foolishness. Whatever you believe, no one ever forgets a dive.
Thousands of years ago, the Hegemony sealed its borders through the destruction of thousands of stars, blockading the rest with the massive fleets of the Armada. Only their Star Spires were capable of traversing the lightless gap, and the Grange - the worlds outside the Hegemony's borders - were mostly ignored. But then fifty years ago, someone had to go and invent a new means of FTL. The Grange was no longer a place full of nothing but barbarians and Exiles, and a new Diaspora of humanity has begun.

While jump drives are not exactly the most unique sort of setting conceit, traveling between the stars with an "Icarus Drive" is a unique type of... harrowing, seeing how it's works through literally plunging into stars. :black101: However, FTL requires slipping through Null Space, the cracks between the stars that exist somewhere outside of space and time. In some ways it's as much a spiritual experience as a physical one, and only human pilots can successfully stardive. Even with Hegemony technology, Artifex and other automated systems cannot successfully complete the journey.

While stardiving is the quick route, there's more traditional sorts of travel as well. Ion drives, Toroidal Fusion Thrusters, and other sorts of engines are commonly used in the Grange, and they can reach relativistic speeds in only a few hours. These aren't really practical for anything more than in-system travel, or short jaunts of a few light years.

Combat in space happens on fairly "realistic" levels, typically with high powered lasers at rather long distances since ion weapons are too easily deflected by magnetic fields and even the best railguns have too long a travel time hundreds of kilometers out. The usual tactic is that the weaker ship attempts to get close in order to maximize the power of its weapons or to try and find the angles where the enemy can't bring most of their weapons to bear, while the strong ship attempts to keep their distance. All ships typically mount magnetic shields in order to deflect debris, but warships can be found with far more potent variants that can absorb and deflect energy weapons as well. Of course, these also tend to contain the heat of the engines inside them too...

•The Ulster•

HTML Draft posted:

Your Ulster is your friend. There is nothing, nothing at all more important that it when you are in space. Your priorities are: 1. Breathing and 2. Know Thy Ulster.

(...) Your Skin2 lets you keep your warm wet animalness alive pretty much anywhere, and it has an infinite number of clever functions as well. The Skin2 is literally that: it coats you like a layer of paint. A flexible, extremely tough paint that recycles your waste, blocks cosmic radiation, super thermo-insulates against heat and cold, performs basic first aid should you need it, and can play host to an endlessly diverse number of accessories from strength-boosting exo-skeletons to built-in entertainment systems, to weapon holsters and mounts. (Don't let an Artifex find out what that plasma-thrower hardpoint is for though -- they'll 'fix' it trying to look after your best interests.)
The super space fetishwear suits that everyone in the setting has by necessity. They come in all sorts of models and variants, and many ships and stations don't even bother with life support systems in order to save power and supplies; it's rare for an Exile to get the chance to take theirs off unless they get the chance to go planetside. Naturally, most Exiles heavily modify theirs in functional (maneuvering jets, additional limbs, built-in medial tools, etc) and cosmetic (paint, lights, different shapes and colors) ways. Ulsters can theoretically be worn indefinitely, but can have negative health consequences (like "sloughing off your skin") if worn for more than a few years at a stretch.

•Way Stations•

HTML Draft posted:

Oases in space, the Waystations are the centers of civilization and commerce in the emptiness of the void. Be glad they're there because you'll be spending a lot of your time at Waystations. They run the gamut from megalithic asteriod clusters, to converted derelict spacecraft, or the vast cylindrical orbitals of the Hegemony. They serve one primary purpose: trade, serving as the center for interstellar commerce above a colonized world, but large numbers can be found alone in a barren system. Star-faring peoples such as the Starborn and the Trade Guild factions of the Consortium rely on the Waystations to do their business and resupply after years spent plying the starways.
The centers of civilization and commerce in the void. Millions of Exiles a year pass through them (a large number... but pretty small in comparison to the trillions that live within the Hegemony). The setting would probably take place on or around one of these, and how wealthy and well-maintained they are varies quite a bit with how close they are to the Hegemony's borders.

HTML Draft posted:

There are a huge variety of Way Stations in the known Galaxy. Most in the inner worlds are the terminus of Umbilicus, but many in the Grange are little more than shantytown collections of ships and asteroids bound together with cable and flextunnels.

•Terminus -- These Way Stations are the official domain of the Hegemony, and are protected with the might of the Navy and guarded by elite members of the Legions. Security is very tight, and some ships may be quarenteened from anywhere for a week to 6 months. However, supplies are plentiful and usually inexpensive, and most of the Franchises are represented.
•Ports-o-Call -- Owned and controlled by the Syndics, these Ways Stations typically served as colonial capitals in the Grange. They are often the headquarters of a Viceroy, and the home port to many merchants, privateers, and battle cruisers of the Syndic. Though all ships are welcomed at Syndic station,
•Favellas -- Sometimes owned by no one, this ragtag collection of vessels is often the only way station to be found in the Grange. All are welcome at these Stations, as long as they have mass to spend or trade.
Newly Exiled often have little in the way of support, and even less in the way of experience. Most of the ports closest to the Hegemoony are set up to exploit these victims as heavily as possible; only a little over a quarter of Exiles survive their first year.

•The Freeworlds•
Not everyone in Exile is forced into it. Sometimes groups of colonists accept it voluntarily, trading away the benefits of Hegemony life and Syndic membership in order to have freedom or speech or religion on their own private utopia. Freeworld groups are often wealthy and well equipped, and not against co-oping any local population into their particular government.

Of course, the majority of such colonies typically collapse into feudalism or violent anarchy within a few decades, and often have their fertile and promising worlds recolonized by a later group. The few Freeworlds that survive are usually the ones with colony groups that focused on escaping the Hegemony in desperation rather than following some untenable political ideal.

•Indigenous Cultures•

HTML Draft posted:

Don't forget, you aren't just facing Hege outcasts; the local population out here can be truly twisted. It's best not to go messing with the locals unless you can at least identify their type. You might want to avoid them altogether, as many of the gene-twists out here are far less natural than plain exotics.
While the Exiles of the Hegemony are a large population of the Grange, there are groups and civilizations out there from the first Diaspora. Rovers are nomads that travel around a system, mining or scavenging what they need. Naturals are groups that have forsaken Artifex and other advanced technology, while some (intentionally or involuntarily) live in pre-modern agrarian societies. Mysterians are groups devoted to religious worship, of "mainstream" faiths or more... exotic sorts, such as worshiping Artifex or ecstatic cults focused around local hallucinogens.

•The Anathama•

HTML Draft posted:

This is all as it happened. I am the veteran of seventy years and until forty-eight hours ago I believed that I had seen death in all its forms. As a Bak-Sakusa I feared nothing, yet the beings that lurked in that devastated Horde base, the ones that blasted the minds of our scouts and poured out of the depths into my men... I knew fear for the first time. Never have I heard screams like the ones I heard then -- I turned and boosted myself towards the dock bay exit in a frenzied panic.

My retinas were filled with the transmission of my men's tactical holography. The images revealed nothing, they were fighting with shadows that struck like monoblades. Each was enveloped in blackness just before their screams ended and the telemetry cut off. In the darkness warriors fought each other in their panic. I tried to gather as many men as I could and made a course for the cargo bay airlock.

Though I will attempt a complete description of what I saw, Council, I must admit that I am loath to recall it. Pouring out of the access hatches onto 400 seasoned fighting men were abominations that twisted my mind with terror. The things moved with a translating translucent slickness, invisibly stretching their ridged and wet forms onto more dimensions that we ever see. They engulfed my terrified men who tried in vain to damage them with their weapons. In the instant I was transfixed by the nightmare vision I realized though the blades and coherent light had no effect on the horrors, particle beams did drive them back temporarily.
Mysterious and hostile... things that exist beyond the Grange. :cthulhu: Not human, and more important, never were human. Possibly not even native to this universe. They're not officially acknowledged by the Hegemony, but because they were mentioned as rumor in the corebook we can safely assume they're real and will probably try to murder the PCs.

•The Rest•
There's a... lot of detail in the HTML draft about the sort of lives Exiles lead, little customs and terminology, assorted Exile holidays and popular entertaining, ways to select a crew and maintain a ship, and other things that I'm not quiiiite sure how to translate for a review here since much of it's done in conversational tone and often only up a sentence or two long. In any case there's a lot more than I really have room for here, but I figure if you're interested in the game you can just check that out yourself, and if you're not then there's no reason to just copy-paste walls of text here. Sorry. :shobon:

Next time: Rules! There are actually some, really!

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

•Part Seven: The Rules of Exile•



Interestingly, while the HTML draft has a lot more in the way of setting material and fluff, it doesn't actually have any rules beyond a brief section of equipment with stats. The PDF draft on the other hand has summarized playtest rules, but the setting material is much briefer and stated in direct OOC phrasing. I get the suspicion that they were actually different potential parts of the same final book; a lot of White Wolf games have the first half be IC-style setting description and the rest be stating things in frank terms to the players and GMs, and this seems to fit the pattern. The only trick that comes in is that the two seem to be from different stages of development, with a few changed or contradictory pieces of information. Ah well.

In any case, every quote here will obviously be from the PDF draft.

•The Game System•
Good news! Exile doesn't use the Storyteller system! :toot: Thank loving god, it was still a bit of a wreck in 1997. The default assumption is that characters succeed automatically on most tasks. For tasks ("challenges") where a roll is necessary you still get to put those piles of d10's to the task... but thankfully, as d100's instead. You need to roll under the target number, usually the trait in question, but the higher the roll is without exceeding the target number the better you succeed in what I shall dub the "Price is Right" mechanic. Since Null-f inherited White Wolf's hatred of intuitive probability, particularly complex challenges may require you to roll against two (or more!) different traits. If you only succeed at one roll, the success is halved (or thirded, or what have you). If you lack the appropriate skill, the target number is your base stat times ten, and the game master narrator by assign a 10-30% penalty to difficult rolls.

Also,

quote:

All traits in this game have a percentile rating from 1 to 100. A characters score can be considered the percentage of human maximum they possess in that particular trait. For instance, a character with an 84% Reason, can be assumed to be in the top 16% of individuals in regards to raw intelligence.
That seems like an unnecessary detail, but whatever. :shrug:

In any case, when you succeed you take the "tens" digit of the roll and have that many success points, giving people with higher traits much better successes as well as better chances. If you get exactly the target number you get a critical success and can roll again, combining the total success points (if any extra; the second roll can't harm you). You can burn success points to...

quote:

• Movement: you are allowed to take some sort of simple extra physical action, such as walking or running, in addition to your basic action. . Cost: 1 to 3 pts. You define what you want to do, and the Storyteller tells you if you succeed.
• Defence: You can apply your successes to your own defence in combat, thereby taking away the successes of one attacker by the same amount.
• Special FX: You use your successes to make your action special in one way or another, anything from striking your enemy between the eyes to scoring a particularly salient political point in a debate.
• Add to Next Roll: You always have the choice to save your action pts till your next roll. If you make the roll, add up all the action pts, however, if the next turn you fail your roll, all the successes you saved are lost.
Rolling 00 is a "Null", which represents unprobable luck. The narrator basically gets to describe something that is "memorable", "quirky, odd, and definitely strange", basically giving open excuse to make poo poo up. If you roll below your Exhaustion or Malaise score (we'll get to this in a moment) you get a critical failure, with the narrator encouraged to make your life difficult and painful pending mentions of botch charts that don't actually appear in this draft.

Overall, these basic mechanic aren't... that bad? A little more complex than they need to be, but at the same time they seem to be a lot simpler than Storyteller and have a wide range of potential results without being too difficult to interpret. I'm not really sure the game needs that range of results, but I've certainly seen worse.

•Exhaustion and Malaise•
Exhaustion comes from physical fatigue and harm; if it reaches 10 you pass out, and it goes away as you rest. Malaise comes from metal stress and fatigue, or when you use your Memes (... we'll get to those a bit later); if it reaches 10 you basically have a mental collapse, and it's removed by meditation, carousing, and other cathartic activities.

Character Generation

•The Troupe•
In other words, the party. Basically it goes into a little detail about how the group should be connected in some thematic way, either by Syndic, by Family (or Cognate...), by background. Pretty obvious stuff, but good to reiterate I guess?

•Character conception•
Finally, chargen. :woop: To begin with, you need to pick through a few different things. An origin (a family outcast, an orphan, the clone of a hero, etc.), a background (an aristocrat, a bureaucrat, a famous celebrity, etc.), and the reason for your banishment (a crime, being framed for a crime, a personal disgrace where your family/Syndic just wanted you out of their sight, or just being of low status and picked at random to "support colonization efforts"...)

•Affiliation•
Here's where the Syndics come in! The important thing with Exile is that it isn't a binary choice like a Clan or Tradition, but rather you pick five different Syndics, having a different sort of affiliation with each, and each type of affiliation having a different affiliation score. These are Champion (50%), Enemy (40%), Initiate (30%), Spy (20%), and Contact (10%), all fairly self-explanatory.

Honestly this is probably a bit overcomplicated, but it definitely explains why there's a wide variety of Syndics, why they often have overlapping members and goals, and why some of them barely qualify as "Syndics" at all. In addition...

quote:

NOTE: When you record your Syndic score, roll one ten sided die — the result becomes the one digit. Combined with the base index for each affiliation you create a percentage score from 11% to 59%. (you’ll do the same for Skills later on).
•Attributes•
Like the Storyteller ones, they're rated from 0-5, though 0 usually isn't found on player characters. You get 18 points to divide between the

quote:

• Vigour: A general rating of physical stamina and strength. Applications of endurance and sheer physical force. Body tone and general physical health.
• Coordination: This trait describes the fine control a subject will have over his actions. Eye-Hand coordination, agility, and general dexterity can be ascertained by the use of this Attribute.
• Presence: The characters general appearance, demeanour and charisma — their social aptitude.
• Expression: The characters skill to communicate ideas and influence others.
• Reason: The pure strength of mind a Factor possesses, and the deductive and inductive intellectual powers which they can employ. Also Reason is the technical aptitude of the Factor. This describes his skill to deal with complex mechanical and/or technical tasks and situations.
• Intuition: This attribute describes the creative thinking and general sanity of a character. The degree to which they are aware of their surroundings is rated by this attribute. Also describes creative insights.
If they didn't have Coordination in there they could have gotten away with a sweet VIPER acronym. Once more White Wolf ignores critical gameplay concerns! :argh:

•Skills•
There are some! The level of affiliation with a Syndic tells you how many points you can spend in its skills (from 5 to 1, basically divide the base affiliation score by 10) and what skills you can choose from. Like with affiliation score you roll a die to get the ones digit of the final score. In addition to the stuff listed above you can burn successes on, you need to spend a certain amount of successes to define how well you succeeded at a skill check. In general 1 is "barely succeeded" and 5 is "I am the Moon". If the roll is contested, whoever gets the most successes wins. No, there's no mention of how to resolve ties.

•Memes and Drives•
Memes are "the clusters of ideas, ethics and visions of each Syndic which describe what hold them together as a group." You get three, picked from the lists of your various Syndics (yes, including the enemy one). These are something like a combination of Merit and Power, but also indirectly defining an aspect of personality kind of like how Nature and Demeanor did in V:tM. Every Syndic has three examples in the draft, but presumably the final book and any supplements would have had more. Some examples are...

quote:

• (Androgyne) Follow Your Bliss — Do all that you can do, experience everything available to you. Live Life to the Fullest. You get 1 extra experience roll each story.
• (Armada) Born to Lead — You believe that some people are born to be leaders and you are one of the destined. Indeed, you have a voice of command, and can double your successes on any Leadership roll by taking a Malaise point.
• (Consortium) Trust Your Cognate — The group is always paramount over the individual. You believe in this absolutely, and still consider yourself a full member of your cognate. Because you have faith in your
family, they still protect you and you will be granted one rebirth. When you die a new clone body will be provided free of charge.
• (Common Weal) The Will to Power — You have a powerful drive to survive, and seek to have life eternal. When you take a wound that would otherwise kill you, you can make a Vigour roll, and each success takes away a damage point. However each success always keeps you comatose for one day.
• (Trancers) Tune in, Turn on, Trance out — Join with the community, become one mind with the trancer caps. By wearing a trance cap and attending a Rave you can reduce your Malaise. Make a passion roll, the successes indicate how many Malaise Points you lose.
A character will also have the derived Temper (Vigour+Coordination), Passion (Presence+Expression) and Pride (Reason+Intuition) traits. You get these by taking the two scores and assigning them to either the tens or ones digit as you prefer (so a 3 and a 5 could be 35% or 53%). There's some advantages to both high and low scores, thus the option.

•Indulgences•
The "stuff" you start with. Being Exiled doesn't mean you're totally bereft of possessions, and even the disenfranchise can scavenge up or be granted some basic resources (it's exile after all, not a death sentence, and the Hegemony wants to give at least the pretense of a fair chance). You get seven rolls to represent the seven days you have left on Diadar before your exile, basically picking a skill or attribute and rolling a challenge against it as you try to get resources from your syndics. The narrator is encouraged to make each of these rolls a scene as you try to justify your challenge, but honestly that sounds like it'd get to be a colossal hassle in practice for a group of any size.

You get successes like usual and can burn them to buy stuff from the appropriate Syndic's list, like spacecraft, estates on a Grange world, a military commission, and other assorted things that will make your life significantly easier. However, a roll of 01 is a botch; normally this means forfeiting any remaining rolls as you're unexpectedly deported the next day, but at the Narrator's discretion you can just die it's a combat roll. There's a bit of Traveler in here after all! :v:

•Logos•
Basically the freebie points from Storyteller chargen, stuff spent at the end to boost stats and such to make each character a little more unique. You get 20 points to start, and can spend them on...

quote:

Attribute - 5 Logos points per point (max 5)
Syndics - 1 Logos point per roll
Skills - 1 Logos point per level (any skill)
Memes - 1 Logos gives you 1 extra meme
Indulgences - 1 Logos point lets you re-roll, or take 3 successes
Drives - 1 Logos points per roll (can be used either up or down)
Hit Points - 1 Logos point lets you add one hit point to one hit location
Note: A roll indicates you get to roll a ten sided die and can the result to your index.
... and yeah, like with WoD chargen some of these are clearly more valuable than others. A big example would be hit points and Memes; there's no way to add those through experience later, at least in this draft, and Memes are fantastically cheap for their effect. I can't say I'm a fan of the random elements either, but eh. :geno: You can also save Logos for post-chargen, but I'll cover that in a moment.

•The rest•
Your Pathos is a d10 roll, although it's kind of a vestigial trait since it's mentioned solely in this note and in a single Meme. Your Reputation is 0, but is definitely a vestigial trait since literally nothing else mentions it. Your age is anywhere from 10 to 100 (people tend to live a long time in the Hegemony even without anagathic treatments), though most Exiles are young.

Naturally, there's a bit list of syndics, skills, memes, and all that sort of stuff in the draft. I'm not going to bother transcribing that here.



Game play

•Acuities•
Super-normal abilities available if you have the certain Memes of certain Synddics. Basically a sort of limited psychic ability; it doesn't work on Artifex or other mechanical or overly logical entities, for example. There's one tied to each attribute. Some examples are the Meditation of the Zae that lets you ignore the need for rest, food, or water on a successful roll (and possibly on consecutive days...), or the Diva of the Trancers that lets them erase malaise points if they lead a trancer event.

•Logos•
The good news: Exile has a "hero point" style mechanic. You can spend Logos to reroll a challenge (but only once), to add three successes to a roll, and similar things that help to mitigate the bullshit of random chance. You can also spend a point to do some dramatic editing of the scene, pretty much identical to similar mechanics in other games (like the later Adventure!). This is pretty nice!

Only problem is, Logos is lost when it's spent; you don't really have a regenerating pool of it. Fortunately you can gain more by following the intent of your Memes, but if you were saving some after chargen instead of buying permanent traits you probably fell into a pretty big chargen trap. But in fairness it is 1996 here, people were still experimenting with these types of mechanics.

•Drives•
The personality traits. Generally self-explanatory; Temper is how angry you are, Pride is how strong your self worth is, and Passion is how emotional you are. These play a big part in Reaction Checks; in cases where you need to make an immediate, gut response, the Narrator might have you make an appropriate Drive check. These can be good or bad; a fearful moment might be a Temper challenge, with success letting you fight bravely and failure forcing you to flee, but if something that makes you enraged you'd only retain control if you fail the check.

In addition, successful use of social skills (Seduction, Leadership, and the like) on you can force you to make a challenge of the appropriate drive, again with positive or negative outcomes on success depending on the skill and circumstance. Succeeding on a Pride check after a Leadership roll means your fear is reduced, but succeeding on a Passion challenge after a Negotiation roll means you get greedy and give in to their offer, for example.

In any case, if you don't like the result you can take a Malaise point and roll a different Drive to try and counter the result. Allies can use skill checks on you similarly with no Malaise cost.

•Combat•
I'm nooot going to go into full detail here. Basically, every combatant gets to make a skill roll and take an action, and can take the action even if you fumble the roll. Everyone also gets three free successes they can spend on Initiative, Movement, or Defense, giving people who've failed their rolls some tactical options. And yes, Initiative is decided by how many successes you spend on it, and actions are decided at the start of the turn and counted down from highest initiative to lowest, so there's some trade off in how soon you strike versus how well you strike. There's also a whoooole lot of things to spend combat successes on, including basically all the fancy maneuvers (grappling, suppressing fire, etc.) that most games have. I think it's a pretty elegant means of handling these compared to the additional checks or unnecessary subsystems a lot of games have.

With damage, characters have health levels... although unlike Storyteller, it's divided between six locations, the head, torso, and all four limbs, each with different numbers of health levels; an arm has three, the torso has seven, and so on. The defender chooses where they're hit unless the attacker spends successes on choosing a location, and damage is determined by the weapon used (a flat non-random number) and is reduced by any armor or force fields. A limb reduced to 0 is disabled, and you're unconscious if the head or torso hits 0. If you're unconscious, any additional damage means a death challenge against vigor or fortitude.

Overall... it's not that bad really. No worse than Storyteller, but there's a lot more fiddly tactical aspects and it it doesn't have the same sort of death spiral effect.

•Experience•
These rules are... uh, incomplete. There's a few places where concepts are cut off mid-sentence, like some mentions of spending Logos for stuff but not saying how. :v: In any case, the Narrator hands out 1 to 7 experience points, and you pick which traits to use them on, getting a roll for each point spend. If you succeed, you gain 1%. If you fail you can 2%, and an exact success gains 3%. I'm not a big fan of random chance rolls for character advancement since it can lead to long term imbalance, but this is a pretty elegant way of handling it; the better a trait is, the slower it increases. The section mentions "watching the levels of your drives" but there's no mention of how they'd ever decrease, and it also notes that Syndic affiliation can only be changed with RP.

Final assessment
Overall? The system is rather sparse but there's definitely enough to play a game with here if you really wanted, at least with some willingness to add extensive house rules to trim vestigial stats and make rules for edge cases. It's nothing exceptional, but moving to percentile dice removed a lot of the wonkyness that Storyteller had with its dice pool probabilities. The real problem that I can see (admittedly, without ever actually playing with it in practice) is that in many cases you're going to have a 50% or less chance of actually succeeding at all on a roll in a skill you haven't focused on, and that's just going to be frustrating a lot of the time. The early encouragement to have the Narrator only force rolls when it's absolutely necessary helps a bit, but in practice I don't see it helping this improving the situation in most games. The upside is that when you do succeed you usually wind up with multiple success levels to play with, and in most of the systems where constant failure would be problematic (like combat) you're given some automatic successes to distribute. Combat is very, very different from Storyteller due to this; it becomes a bit more tactical in how you plan your actions and spend your successes. In any case it's hard to really say how well the game would work without some actual playtesting; I suspect it's not a bad concept, but you'd want to tweak the chances of overall success versus success levels granted to even it out a bit.

As for character generation, I think that it's... functional but mediocre? It's kind of like Storyteller in that it's not horribly complex and there's a fair bit of flexibility in how you make a PC, but there's way too many random elements. Obviously that comes down to personal taste, but the rolls just seem to add unnecessary complexity and potential imbalances between PCs. There's also the Storyteller style problem of a big disconnect between chargen and experience costs... but experience is done differently enough that there isn't the compounding costs problem that lead to the dumb builds of early Storyteller games.

Next time: Closing thoughts!

Asimo fucked around with this message at 23:37 on May 26, 2014

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




:siren: Mark Rein·Hagen's Exile :siren:

•Part Eight: Final thoughts•



•The Text•
To be honest, it's hard to really give a fair review about Exile. What we have available is basically a first draft that was maybe total seventy or eighty pages at the most, clearly far less than the 200+ the final book would have clocked in at. The rules are very rough with several unused traits and a lot of character options given only basic examples to test with, and the setting was still being changed and expanded between the drafts. So with that said, I'll try to look at the good parts of the game and try and ponder how what's broken or missing could have been improved, since it's impossible to say what the final product would have included.

On the whole... I actually really kind of like Exile. It's full of 90's thematic conceits and some design that would be out of place these days, but I loving hate classic Storyteller and for all of this system's flaws it's at least a lot more transparent. The overall setting themes are much "higher concept" than a lot of the sci-fi games that had been released until then too. It's not quite as heavy on transhuman themes as Transhuman Space would eventually be, and it lacks the sort of relatively hard sci-fi that something like Traveller had, but it's this odd mix of harder sci-fi themes, creatively done softer themes (I still love the "stardiving" conceit for FTL), and a sort of pervasive spirituality in the backdrop of an ancient but slowly decaying civilization that seems to get its influence from Frank Herbert or Larry Niven more than George Lucas or Gene Roddenberry.

The problem with the Exile drafts however is that, as mentioned earlier in the thread, they're very interesting themes but the setting information is focused on the wrong areas for the game. There's far, far too much attention given to the Hegemony itself and the Syndics, and once the prelude (and scrounging up your Indulgences...) is done the characters, pretty much by definition, won't exactly be interacting with it again directly. It's probably an inevitability of seeing the game this early in development; the Null Foundation wanted to make an entire game line out of the setting, and the characters ultimately would have lived the start of their lives in the Hegemony, so it only makes sense to give the core of the setting a lot thought and early attention to detail.

If you're only working with the draft though you're going to have to make up most of the setting for the Grange. The HTML draft has a lot of information on lingo, and small-scale customs and behaviors and the like, but it just doesn't give you enough information about politics in the Grange, major stations or political powers, and other stuff that's sort of critical to crafting a campaign. I'm not entirely sure this is something that would be sufficiently resolved in the final game too... it's quite telling that there's only two Syndics (the Bak' Sakusa and the Trancers) that are explicitly Exile-focused. Still, the fact character traits are defined by their interactions between multiple Syndics (and by extension, elements of the setting) is a really interesting way of handling traditional splats that I wish more games did.

I actually rather like that Null-F didn't see to include a "power" system like basically every White Wolf game had. The Memes (and the Acuities... which are bought through Memes) are maybe the closest equivalent, and even those tend to be a bit more subtle and focused; the closest equivalent in a contemporary White Wolf game would probably be the knacks from Adventure!, for example. There's a lot of ways to break characters, both good and bad, but overall everyone is on a roughly even level. Of course, a lot of attention is given to the Ulsters and spaceships and other essential technology, and everyone having powered exoskeletons does reduce the need for personal power crunch too.

As I mentioned last post, like the overall idea behind the rule system... percentile dice are pretty easy to work with, and the potential number of successes scaling with the chance for success makes for an interestingly escalating competency at higher skill levels despite the flat roll. Most of the problems really come down to how successes scale, since as it is many players would be looking at 50% or less chance of success on a particular roll, but that may have been something that the playtesting would have changed.

•Would I play it?•
Yeah, probably. It's incomplete and I pity the GM who'd have to flesh things out for the campaign, but there's a whole lot of worse themes and systems around, and if anything the 90's "spacepunk" concepts and visuals seem almost charming now.

•So what about Aeon/Trinity?•
This... is really the biggest piece of the story, and one of the things I know very little about. As I mentioned in the first post, Rein·Hagen left White Wolf in 1996 and took Null Foundation with him, while Aeon came out less than a year later in 1997. It's pretty clear that White Wolf was going to do a science fiction game one way or another, but at this point it's impossible for anyone but the people involved to say whether it was an argument over control over the game line, a break in creative intent, or personal company politics. Similarly, it's hard to say whether Aeon came about due to White Wolf making a game in their own style while trying to piece together scattered drafts and unused ideas, or whether Aeon was actually intentionally rushed in order to undercut Null Foundation. Whatever the case, Aeon actually got released while Exile didn't.

There's a few things that help to give some hints to the behind the scenes development. One is how the first edition of Aeon had almost the exact same esoteric printing format that the draft wanted for Exile; a spiral bound, black-covered book with only a logo prominently displayed. It's clear it inherited a bit of Exile's intended design there, but that may just have been the affectation of some particular staffer who remained at White Wolf after Rein·Hagen left. Then there's the Null Foundation itself... my sneaking suspicion is that Rein·Hagen wanted a lot more creative control or felt the company wasn't working in his interests, and having the game done in a "non-profit" organization in his name let him keep the rights when he finally left. It's telling that the organization got converted into a for-profit company a few years after Rein·Hagen split from the company, even if Atomoton only made a single failed product before closing.

Whatever the politics, Aeon/Trinity was ultimately a... very different game. I can't speak for everyone, but for a while there Exile was kind of a big deal in the online gaming/usenet community due to being "the next big White Wolf thing" even if the interest eventually fizzled once it became clear the project was going nowhere. Considering those expectations for a high-concept setting, Aeon was kind of a poor substitute. It's not a bad game but it definitely was much smaller in scope, quite a bit less experimental, and had very little in common thematically.

For those who aren't familiar with it, a quick summary would be that the player characters are the psychic agents (Psions) of one or more government or corporate organizations during the rebuilding after a catastrophic world against cosmic-powered superhumans (Aberrants). It's almost entirely focused around Earth and the solar system (to the point that the warp-capable psychics have fled for... reasons before the game begins), society is in an overall state of regrowth and rebuilding rather than a decline, and the characters are generally presumed to be well-supported and well-trained agents rather than outcasts and, well, exiles. It used a variant of the Storyteller system (probably the initiator of the branch that Exalted would later use, rather than the later NWoD's), the characters are tightly tied to their single splat (to the point that it's incredibly difficult to use powers from other splats), and where Exile kept to a lot of WoD themes while drastically changing the mechanics and metagame, Aeon changed a lot of themes while being very conservative with the mechanics and overall design.

If I had to pick between the two, I really sort of wish Exile had got completed instead. On the other hand, Aeon eventually lead to Adventure! which I'd argue is the best game White Wolf ever did and one of the best RPGs in history, so it's hard to really hold too many regrets.

•The Art•
I'm not gonna lie, I love Timbrook's stuff and I'm kind of sad the game never released with more proper finished art rather than low-resolution concept sketches. I used a lot of the Timbrook pieces that were up on archive.org throughout the review, but I didn't get to use the majority of pieces. Most of these sketches are unusably low quality these days, but it's still some design work that would otherwise have been forgotten and helps to get across a bit of the feel of the characters and technology, so I threw it all the images I could find into an imgur gallery. Enjoy!

http://imgur.com/a/ILkzi#4

•The PDF draft•
What, you thought I'd leave you hanging? Between this and the playtest draft on archive.org you'll have everything I know of that still exists from the playtest. Yeah, I guess it's technically :filez: but it's for a publicly released document for a game that never got released by a company that no longer exists, so I'm pretty sure nobody will care.

The downside is I'm not quite sure of the best way to share this, so here's a bunch of file sharing links for places that hopefully aren't too virus-ridden. :v: You're probably best off trying the onedrive one first, though I have no idea how long that will last. If they're all dead in a month or two just give me a PM or something and I'll just email it to you.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=99F84081DB0CDCC!1056
http://www.filedropper.com/exile11stdraft
http://www.freefilehosting.net/exile11stdraft
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2ysdhv
http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/87350767/file.html




:woop:•Thanks for Reading!•:woop:
If anyone does actually own one of the Z-G figures and the related cards and accessories, could you do a quick review of the material for the thread? I recall it having almost nothing in common with Exile beyond the theme of the Ulsters, but I vaguely remember the small rulebook having some basic setting information and I'm curious just how much was actually kept. Also, if anyone really liked or had problems with the review, PM or let me know; the ones I've done in the past have either been rule-free books or comparatively simple games, and if I do another in the future I want it to be as good as possible.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Kai Tave posted:

Say what you will about Gygax but at least the very first iteration of D&D was laser-focused, knew what it wanted to be, and got the equivalent in stress testing that maybe no RPG since has ever had. Later Gygax would go on to do stuff like AD&D2E and Lejendary Journeys or whatever it was, but at least Gygax can lay claim a game that wasn't just a huge kludgey mess. Even if you pare Rifts down to nothing but the core rulebook it's still kind of crap.
Well it's important to keep in mind that Rifts was something like the sixth or seventh iteration of the "palladium system". If you go back a ways, Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game was actually a relatively streamlined and passable-but-forgettable AD&D heartbreaker, especially compared to its contemporary competition. The problem was that it was written in 1983 and the system hasn't really been refined or changed since, just had more stuff cut off or bolted onto it like ARB mentioned. It's a thirty year old system and feels every creaking decade of it.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Davin Valkri posted:

Did proper mechanically-backed genre emulation really only happen in the 2000s? It feels weird hearing about stuff like that Indiana Jones example in an age where Apocalypse World, Monsterhearts, Leverage, Atomic Robo, and Double Cross are all readily available.

(Not saying those are the only ones, but they've all been noted, here or elsewhere in TG, as being very good at thematic reinforcement.)
There's been attempts at genre emulation through the years, but mostly on the sidelines of gaming or in ways that didn't quite succeed. The oldest explicit example I can think of offhand (but I'm sure there's older) is 1984's TSR's Marvel Super Heroes, which tied XP ("Karma" I think it was?) to doing "heroic" things and let you spend XP on rerolling checks and some of the things now considered "dramatic editing". (And contrary to unseenlibrarian's comment, MSH predated Ghostbusters by two years. Even if GB's take is a bit closer to the modern one). There were games like Teenagers from Outer Space and Toon that attempted to play loose and light to keep with the feel of the source genres, with pretty good success. Even into the 90's, things like the oWoD's humanity/morality mechanics were an attempt to enforce a genre, just with mixed success.

Just as has been already mentioned, there was sort of a sea change in the late 90's/early aughts where people really started to look at the "metagame" of and started more actively making mechanics and designs that would naturally guide players towards RPing within the theme of the game. It's not surprising that this has a pretty heavy correlation with the downfall of "generic" systems like GURPS.

Evil Mastermind posted:

Of course, that had just as much to do with WEG not understanding what makes things funny, which killed a few of their game lines.

Evil Mastermind posted:

I think I talked about this a thread or two ago when we were discussing Paranoia 5th Edition, but when it got right down to it WEG's writers didn't see the difference between dark comedy, intelligent comedy, or slapstick. Everything got dumped into that category eventually.

There's a Paranoia 5th module that I swear to god reads like an episode of Family Guy.
I will never get the love for WEG that still lingers in the RPG community. Having played a lot of them back when they were contemporary, their games were always horrible. I guess a slick presentation, excellent presentation, and big-name licenses go a long way.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Evil Mastermind posted:

WEG got a lot of leeway because they had the Star Wars licence (and the game was good for it's time), Paranoia (which is where all the good writers they had were focused), and Torg (which was very different from everything else available at the time).

Of course, when they lost the Star Wars licence and all the good Paranoia writers left, that's when things started falling apart.

FMguru posted:

Yeah, WEG was really two companies: the 1980s WEG which made excellent boardgames (Tank Leader! RAF! Web and Starship! Junta! Tales of the Arabian Nights!), Paranoia, Torg, and Star Wars 1E, and 1990s WEG which spiraled down until it was shipping junk like the $30 hardback RPG supplement for Star Wars "The Truce At Bakura", Paranoia 5E, and RPGs based on the Species and Tank Girl properties. Oh, and one of the strangest, least-loved RPGs ever - Shatterzone.

Actually, there were three companies: I forgot that guy who bought out their IP in the 2000s and tried to relaunch it, only to become the dictionary definition of a nerd with a dream and a line of credit but less than zero business sense. What a trainwreck that was.
Yeah, that's fair enough. I'm a little biased because I've always hated their system work, but at least when the company was new it was making interesting things. I'll still cut anyone who says WEG Star Wars was good though, it was a broken game that poorly modeled the genre and was full of enough spergy bullshit and god-NPCs. Even people playing then realized it, it was just less a concern at the time.

Evil Mastermind posted:

I think it's not so much generic systems as 90's generic systems, which were more about modeling EVERYTHING you might conceivable want to do mechanically. You still see lingering bits of that mindset nowadays, though, in things like crafting skills or people worrying about the difficulty in moving up a hill.
Yeah, this is more what I meant. The lingering "generic" games are either ones that came out over a decade ago (and yes, Savage Worlds was... 2003 I think?), or are things like FATE where the system is incredibly loose and/or you explicitly change the mechanics and character generation a bit to make a campaign that better matches your chosen setting. Compare that to the classic example of 90's GURPS where they expected you to do gritty fantasy, modern horror, super heroes, and far-future sci-fi with characters that were theoretically point balanced between. It's not like there's been some hard transition point, but it's still a pretty clear long term trend.
Why has that not been reviewed yet? :colbert: (I'd have done it, but I haven't played GURPS since like 1997 so I wouldn't do it justice.)

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Off-brand not-Vault Boy continues to be absolutely and unintentionally hilarious. :allears:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Lina the Inverse

original character do not steal

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




GimpInBlack posted:

I believe TSR's Top Secret was the first game to use "luck points," but I could be wrong.
Ghostbusters (WEG, 1986) and Marvel Super Heroes (TSR, 1984) are other contenders for the earliest use of inspiration/luck point mechanics there depending on how you want to define them. Top Secret would probably predate both, but I haven't seen the original versions, just the Top Secret/S.I. one from '87, so I can't say personally.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Alien Rope Burn posted:

I was weirded out by that too, is it really that hard between all the magical girl franchises, especially with ones like Precure that drop a whole new set of faces yearly?
Spoiler: the people who wrote the book are middle-aged male nerds and not actually the target audience for magical girl shows yes I know don't link the precure age graph so they're just going off what generic rough stereotypes from whatever the most well known series are in pop culture they might have watched an episode or two of and then adding on other archetypes that vaguely kinda match because nerds fundamentally do not understand how themes in media work. :ssh:

The Lone Badger posted:

Does Brucato find a way to cram bestiality into every third paragraph in his other work, or is it only in Furry: the Yiffing?
It's a bit less frequent in other lines.

... But only a bit.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Halloween Jack posted:

Nightbane appears to give the PCs clear story hooks, factions to join, and enemies to fight and does it better than some actual White Wolf games.
In fairness (and kind of going back to the themes thing), Nightspawnbane is really a very different sort of theme and setting than the World of Darkness, with a much stronger emphasis on more traditional adventuring and conflict than the sort of internal struggles and politicking that the WoD theoretically revolves around. Since most games in practice tend to wind up being about beating up the bad guys anyway, and a not insignificant number of people who played WoD at the time basically used it as a superhero-in-trenchcoat kludge, Nightbane really does work better as a game than WoD in a lot of ways.

Except, y'know, the part about being tied to the Palladium house system and Siembieda's editing. :geno:

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I know, I'm crazy to think before you barf out 431 pages of magical girl material, you might want to at least do basic research on the genre.

It's a peculiar malady indeed.
Your optimism is refreshing. :haw:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Alien Rope Burn posted:

It was a massively broken game even by BESM standards, I remember just giving a gently caress off to point levels or balance, because who wants to worry about mathing poo poo in what's a short-run comedy (ish) game?
Wasn't Tenchi Muyo! the RPG just like BESM 1.5 or so? Or maybe 2 with a few changes? I forget the release timeline there. In any case it wasn't really any more broken than BESM in general... it's just that every edition of BESM was always pretty horribly broken and didn't make even vague attempts at balancing traits or powers or pretty much anything at all. If the GM wasn't paying attention it was trivially easy to wind up with a character that could blow up the earth or be made of infinity combining robots or a wide assortment of game breaking fuckery. :downs:

Well, maybe 3e was alright, but by the time it finally got released I already had Mutants & Masterminds 2e which could handle the same sort of powered action genres in a much more elegant and balanced manner so I never really tried it much. And M&M itself is pretty easy to break, so that says a lot...

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




It helps to remind that for the majority of Palladium's run, and definitely when those books were written, Siembieda was doing editing by cutting and pasting. As in like, with a knife, and paste, because his equipment was just that old and he had no interest in learning about those newfangled "computer" things. :geno: It really explains so much about the editing and the layouts.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




unseenlibrarian posted:

That's one of the things they changed in 4E that made people super-mad. 4E Driders were blessed servants.
Yeah, it was revised in the 4e MM so that driders were those who were especially sinister and reverent and blessed by Lolth, instead of the other way around. Which made a lot more sense, but somehow pissed a lot of people off even if it was a meaningless change. Kind of like removing gnomes from the PHB. :v:

theironjef posted:

I for one am so glad that 4e added lizard boobs to the pile of secondary sex characteric gripes that the stick in the mud fanbase of D&D can gripe over.
For all the nerd complaining about the verisimilitude of lizardboobs, I've heard some fairly convincing arguments from friends that breasts are one of the obvious ways to make a silhouette clearly female by human standards, and if the guys playing can have idealized super muscled masculine dragonguy then why can't they have a clearly female dragonlady? It makes a certain sense, and it's pretty harmless to have. But it does show a lot of the pitfalls involved with choices like that too.

Asimo fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jun 12, 2015

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Regarding HOL, it's critical to remember that it is aggressively mired in the horrible mid-90s RPG and iron age comics trends (I think it came out in '94?), and part of the joke of it all is taking those grimdarque thematic trends and cranking them up to 11 to show just how absurd and excessive it all was. Now this doesn't make it a good read or a functional RPG or anything like that, but a lot of the content makes so much more sense in that context. A good two decades of distance makes it easy to forget just how staggeringly puerile a lot of nerd media was at the time.

Kai Tave posted:

I don't really get it either myself, but a number of vocal Blue Rose critics really latched onto the Golden Hart as a representative symbol of everything wrong with the game. I'm still, to this day, not really sure what it is that they object to so strenuously about it.
I think a lot of it came down to being a rejection of typical masculine "power is authority" fantasies. It doesn't matter if you were king badass of twink mountain, it was that magic deer picking some random farmgirl or something instead who decided who had actual power. It meant that having narrative control meant actually interacting with people and your characters having relationships and all that, and this is something that basically went against everything your antisocial awkward nerds stood for.

Okay and there was also a staggering amount of implied homophobia in the complaints too, but. :smith:

Asimo fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jul 23, 2015

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Young Freud posted:

I think Asimo really meant to say "Dark Age Of Comics", i.e. the '90s era of comics that came after stuff like Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, where everything was super gritty and bloody and sexualized. Sin City, Spawn, that sort of thing.
There's a bit of overlap but yeah pretty much.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Bieeardo posted:

IOU still occupies a warm place in my circulatory system.
It's one of the few GURPS books I still own. I've been tempted for ages to do a write up of it myself, but I haven't played GURPS in 20 years so I wouldn't be able to give it good commentary.

I might be jumping the gun a bit here, but the artist for it should be familiar to everyone here I suspect. :allears: Also, notably, it isn't Dan Smith who did basically every piece of interior illustration for almost every goddamn GURPS book in the 90s.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




chiasaur11 posted:

I think my favorite gag there is "Godiva: Fashion design".

If the whole thing has this kind of early Mad Magazine joke density, I think one or two misfires won't be a problem under the sheer mass of gags that work.
Yeah. I'm not sure how funny the game is in terms of actual laugh out loud comedy, but it's just absolutely packed with pop culture references, non sequiturs, in jokes about SJG staff and folks from their BBS, and other such stuff that it's still just kind of adorably corny to read through. Especially when you consider that this was when the internet was still sort of small scale and super nerdy so a lot of the jokes and absurd concepts hadn't run their course yet.

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Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Halloween Jack posted:

There are tons of D&D ripoffs, and ripoffs for pretty much any really successful game published pre-2000, but I think CthulhuTech fits a certain model of game design that is all over the place, but remains nameless when it's not being conflated with White Wolf's games.
Honestly I'd just call this "90's game design"? :shrug: I mean there were a lot of dumb and pervasive trends that took years to finally start going away, and Cthulhutech unfortunately stands out by just doing design like that straight with little insight or innovation.

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