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sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Ancient Enemies! It's complete fuckin garbage!

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sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Cardiovorax posted:

The whole thing was handled more or less with as much tact as I think an RPG sourcebook is capable of, but I still really don't understand why anyone thought something like this needed to exist. Was it really necessary for someone to sit down and seriously think about how your game experience would be enriched by background fluff on what happens to the murdered ghost babies of Holocaust victims? I don't really think so.

I have a weird blend of distaste and respect for Charnel Houses. As a thing I still pretty well stand by my original thoughts on it of 'hey this doesn't need to exist really' but at the very least if it's going to happen you absolutely have to treat it right, and to their credit they did. I still think it has zero place in the game, adds nothing but a way to make players uncomfortable (hey hot tip for all you GMs, if you say 'hey we're gonna run a game involving the spirits of holocaust victims' and someone goes 'oh cool', that person is probably a Nazi!), but considering the last book these guys did involving my heritage was loving Gypsies that made me want to punch the writers at the very least this one left me going 'alright, good on you for taking this poo poo seriously at least'.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Saguaro PI posted:

So it seems like you could salvage the concept of the Beast (sexually repressed person who turns into a cobra when they let go) by sorting out the central move and building from there. Maybe something like this (warning, below is probably bad)?

-When someone turns you on, you may instead negate the result and take the condition Feral. The next time you successfully lash out physically or shut someone down while Feral, pick an extra option and remove Feral. If someone successfully turns you on while you are Feral, pick one of the following:


You mostly retain your human shape
You mostly retain your human intelligence and personality



The intent here is that you get an element of choice, you get some form of benefit (you become really good at being a jerk when repressed) and is still complicated (you need to be a jerk while repressed) in a way that will make other PCs sometimes avoid you but also sometimes create interesting experiences (I really need someone to get up in this NPC's space, better go flirt with cobra boy).

Yea what really 'bugs' me about Skins for the Skinless is that a lot of them have good ideas that MH did legit overlook. Like you said the whole base concept of 'super repressed sexy teen that can't handle themselves when they finally let go' is a classic trope of stuff like this, but they gently caress it up pretty bad by making it an incest cobra face instead of just playing with the basic idea of 'ok what if we made a thing like the werewolf but from the different angle, instead of being all wild and primal at heart it's trying to keep the 'animal' inside'. They try too hard to go beyond the classics sometimes, and MH is really a game of classics with a dark twist.

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Sep 8, 2011

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Night10194 posted:

So, do any of the Skins for the Skinless actually have a teenage analogue or are they all 'X Cool Monster Does This!'?

The decent ones do, it's usually how you can tell the good from the bad, if they spent like ten seconds to think of high school drama tropes to fit their 'cool monster idea' it's usually at least ok.

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Sep 8, 2011

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ZorajitZorajit posted:

Wait, Monsterhearts does involve actual, verifiable, supernatural events? I've been under the impression that all of it existed on a magical realism level of metaphor and the characters strictly exist as normal teens that are just being described as movie creatures. Although, now that I say this, I'm pretty sure the answer is "you can play it either way, stupid cis-het."

I'm a feminist and a straight-ally, but I feel like I am so very not the audience for Monsterhearts. I'd never decry a work for pushing a medium in a new direction, but I just don't get anything about this game. But the quantity of content its seen here, and the praise its received elsewhere suggest that I've been doing a disservice by sticking to the tired old murderhobo games I and my group enjoy. I'm just not sure how I could pitch to them, "Okay, so, instead of being swashbuckling Space-Outlaws, we're going to be transgender Frankensteins."

You know how lots of people have written about how Twilight and the general supernatural romance poo poo as a whole usually involves some hosed up concepts RE abuse and addiction and danger, and then other people write about the deep conceptual meanings behind the assorted monster mythos and how these stories have common cores to them beyond the spooky vampire poo poo?

Yea those two people had a baby and it's Monster Hearts. You are actually a Teen Wolf but the point is when you literally snap at your girlfriend and shove her across the room you're...well a loving a monster and when she goes 'oh it's ok he was just angry at me' it's a really hosed up thing you should kinda be ashamed of.

It helps that my group long ago accepted I'm a big gay stereotype and a couple of them joined me in many a True Blood or Teen Wolf or Buffy marathon/hate watch depending on the season, so when I said 'hey wanna play this fuckin crazy unironic conceptual RPG' most all of them went 'yea gently caress it we'll give it a go'. Like already said it makes a nice kinda intermission between stomping Orc skulls or shooting space robots.

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Simian_Prime posted:

I want to run a Monsterhearts game set in the Monstergeddon universe. How do I make this happen? Dare I play the ultimate teen-angst genre RPG for laughs?

EDIT: How crap, just realized... you got the MonsterHearts version of The Hunger Games! Genius.

Do this please, I would so play.

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Bliss Stage needs like...not a full on trigger warning but there has to be a gap between when you start talking about it and when you actually say the name.

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I've always liked Gargoyle, but yea we always fold in the 'you can wake up early if someone's at school or just take a little damage to do it' into the core move.

Also in fairness I think the 'rival team, lovely board member, or child molester, they're all enemies' thing was meant to be more like 'you treat the first two as if they're as bad as diddling kids' rather than 'or EVEN a child molester, crazy right!?'

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I always loved After the Bomb because it was a good trump card to use whenever old nerds would harumph and whine about how the cartoons and all made the turtles silly.

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To talk about the OTHER passive aggressive monster recently...I actually like the Harpy. Like yea, it's on the nose, but that's a good thing for a concept like that. I think the pathos is there, the sex move shows they literally are unable to complement anyone, even the ones close to them, unless they're willing to weaken themselves pretty strongly, and their bonus to attack stuff shows them being monsters is actually way more on the surface than most any others, I kinda see what they're going for there. They're monsters, and it pisses them off. They're not sexy vampires, they have too much humanity left to avoid being consumed by a hunger or something, they're just beings with a full awareness that they're horrible creatures that no one really has any positive things associated with. Like, their name is literally an insult at this point. They're good at hurting people because they literally can't stop hurting people, and instead of being depressed they got angry.

I kinda want to play a Harpy to be honest.

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Yea I just wanted to call Wick a passive aggressive monster really.

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I dunno, obviously I'd give my group a heads up of 'hey this skin basically involves me being a horribly emotionally abusive dickbag to the point of poo poo like self harm and all, that cool?' but I don't think I, the player, would feel too bad playing a character like that. I just think that the skin fits the supernatural creature well, and being on point should be a good thing for this stuff considering how much we've had to wade through that boiled down to 'the writer kinda didn't understand the concept they're going for here'. I hardly think it's my favorite skin ever or think it's really even top three or whatever, but I can dig the just unrepentant 'yea I'm going to make everyone around me hurt' in a game where emotional manipulation and abuse is already A Thing.

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Davin Valkri posted:

Shouldn't bait-and-switch games be done with eyes open? I mean, I would expect a game with evil Jedi to at least give a heads up like, say, "we'll be using some assumptions from KOTOR 2 about how the Jedi aren't as great as they make themselves out to be, so make your characters along that lines."

Yea basically. You don't have to say 'ok guys heads up in this game Mace Windu actually fell to the dark side as some feared and has been slowly corrupting the Jedi order from his position of power into a more martial and authoritarian order than they were meant to be' but you should give a heads up of 'ok just as a heads up in this game we'll be going with the view on Jedi that they have some dark stuff bubbling under their zen monk stuff'. And yea, if the answer is 'yea, we'd like to try to fix the order then' maybe the best thing to do is to shift gears into less 'the Jedi slaughtered a planet and now there's a civil war!!!!!' and more to 'you found some hosed up poo poo being planned, now you have to try to appeal to your allies to prevent this'.

Twists are fun, and can be great in storytelling, but there's no real fun about smugly going 'and you were WORKING FOR THE BAD GUY THIS WHOLE TIME BUAHAHAHAHA' when you haven't even hinted at that before. Like yea, no poo poo, the guy who's playing the entire world has the ability to declare the shining noble paladin conclave you've been helping Actually The Real Monster, he still has to make it kinda interesting.

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I legitimately will never understand why GMs like Wick think they 'win' in these stories. Like, you control the world, that's the entire point of your role in the story, no poo poo you can declare a woman...sorry...girl who plays in your game A Villain and taunt her about it because she failed a dice roll...you did that thing. Like, you're not watching a program play out, you did a thing in a situation where you had ultimate power and you made someone go 'ugh poo poo'.

If one day I hide my dog's treats and then laugh while he's sniffing around trying to find them again I didn't 'beat' my dog at anything, I just hosed with something that has no power to stop me beyond going 'gently caress this I quit' and walking away.

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Green Intern posted:

I'd like to imagine that if the one woman did use the Villain Point, Wick would have no idea what to do because they weren't following his master plan.

I have no doubt he planned a way where she'd succeed but hurt/kill another player because she's so bloodthirsty and evil and heartless Because Wick Said So.

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Halloween Jack posted:

Wow. It's so much to take in. The awful stuff here isn't the most awful, but there's so much of it.

In the old movies, the "mummy rot" is just a trace of mold that the mummy left on his victims when he killed them, and the tana leaves are a recurring plot point that are not about healing wounds. Combined with a "Deck of Many Things" Move and a "Brew Potion of Cure Serious Wounds" Move, this Skin totally feels like a Dungeons & Dragons character.

Royal Decree actually makes me angry. It's a swap move, with no flavour, that is also effectively +1 Hot. It's just flat-out better than other swap moves, and any Hot+ character would want to take it. Stop writing Moves that are just better than everyone else's Topher. Stop trying to win at teenage monsters, duder. You're missing the point.

Yea as a fan of the old Mummy stuff I gotta say don't feel bad about your mummy rot joke being wrong because this is super more D&D than you expected I guess.

Hilariously the only time I remember tana coming up was when in one movie they were literally just a way to lure the mummy out because they were sacred and him feeling them being brewed in the right context made him all 'arg get away from my poo poo' and in the other their sole purpose is to wake up mummies and keep them from crumbling to dust. Making them into healing potions is really neutering the whole 'this ancient and powerful rite' thing.

And yea the 'rot' was just 'oh, yea this centuries old dude has weird spores and junk we don't see anymore, so when he straight up choked a man he left them behind', the whole 'horrible fungal infection' is a D&D trope taken from the urban legend that the original mummy tomb explorers all got like, anthrax or some other poisoning from the tomb or something?

I know sperging about 'arg this doesn't match the movies from my grandpa's days at all' is silly but one thing I like in MH is that even though it's clearly based on Twilight/True Blood/Teen Wolf stuff, the skins do a good job paying homage to the common cores of the assorted monster myths involved. Nothing 'mummy' really survived in that skin, it's just a D&D monster mash with a lovely 'you're a king and ergo a huge cock' that really many skins could claim as a non character defining trait and be less insufferable.

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Yea Wyrm is pretty great for the trope of 'cool and in control manipulator who just LOSES THEIR poo poo when things go bad'. If I remember right it's a pretty solid skin all in all, too.

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Yea when you can go snake monster and the other option for what that condition describes is your desire to kill them you can totally just chomp down on Jimmy if you Lash Out hard enough. Probably a poo poo move to do to another PC but NPCs basically exist to be props in these stories half the time.

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A non zero amount of bad MH ideas are victims of 'I like this as a non interactive, solo, media concept, WHY WOULDN'T I WANT IT AS AN INTERACTIVE AND MUTLI PERSON GAME?!'

A good amount of general RPG failures are, really.

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Mr. Maltose posted:

It was perfectly serviceable except for Marche's unending desire to recripple his younger brother.

Remember all those the times the hero of a story was enraged that his younger child brother desperately wanted to cling to a world where he was not only not a cripple but an active and respected part of 'normal' society for the first time in his life, and constantly demanded his child brother face the facts that he'd always be a gimp shunned by society?

Then he did the same to a girl his age who I don't remember if she was like abused or whatever but she clearly had something going on to make her feel life wasn't living as it was and while that's not an awesome place to be literal escape into a real alternate world that you're eager and willing to be a part of isn't the same as just reading fantasy books all your life and never doing anything or whatever.

All those heroic stories.

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I stand for Cyberpapacy

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Kurieg posted:

My favorite is the Sniper using the stock on her rifle as a shoulder mount.


I chose a different path. I chose, MARS!

Speaking of obtuse furry bullshit. I'll be done with the first book of Warcraft d20 very soon (there's only enough non-lore material left for about one and a half updates) so I'm planning for the next book to review and I just realized that theres a very important book that Daeren never finished.

So what should I do next
A bunch of races and mass combat rules?
A new caster class designed around punching things and rules for even more mechanized bullshit.


or


We rehired a guy that we fired 6 years ago for being a creep who thinks he's a literal satyr to write a book on anthropomorphic animals, how were we to know it would be full of animistic bullshit and furries?

Changing Breeds is insane but Alliance/Horde is a clusterfuck, go with that.

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Huh I thought you guys were just so used to lovely fetish RPGs you'd call anything furry and not totally retarded good but...yea Ironclaw looks interesting! Well done, Ironclaw people, aside from some dumb pictures (not the species art works, all those rule) you seem to have made a furry RPG that doesn't make people cringe! A rare feat!

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I wouldn't say I'm a 'simulationist' in the sense that I feel a game NEEDS simulation qualities to be good, I love me some crazy fantasy/sci fi bullshit plenty, but I can ENJOY simulationist games that are done and run well. I think there's a place for the hardcore 'no this what it'd REALLY be like in this world' games just the same as there's a place for 'gently caress YOUR PHYSICS I AM A WIZARD'.

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I was really glad when I was linked a cool D6 based FF fangame that actually worked because it meant my group could literally burn our big rear end copy of the Returners with houserules and poo poo in a binder.

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Scrap Dragon posted:

Was that the one by Dust? Because I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but it certainly seems less janky...

Yep. It has jank (Destiny points need to be re-jiggered or your party hordes them and never does anything cool, some classes need a bit of retooling) but it for sure is miles better than what else there is.

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Bacchante posted:

And as my friends played it, you resolve this issue by having an all Psyker party. What could possibly go wrong?

My group did this once too. I thought it was a blast. We were basically the Imperial suicide squad, they sent us after cultists and poo poo fully expecting us to die of head explosions slash self-nuking slash demon bites but we just kept (barely) surviving.

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Yea like the rear end in a top hat in me wants to giggle at a few of those ideas, and the nerd in me wants to legitimately hear about other people's take on gaming and their unique styles on it.

Considering I'm like 99% rear end in a top hat and nerd I'm for this.

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Plague of Hats posted:

With ASIF I get the impression that they wanted you to be able to build Jaime Lannister or Hodor right at character creation, and they didn't really care that in the D&D-ish system they were using that Hodor is an incredibly poo poo character. And then they put out that setting supplement where even the kids have inflated stats and Jaime himself has ridiculous loving numbers all over him.

I actually like a lot of little things in the game, and they did a pretty good job of trying to represent all the stuff people would want to recreate from the books. Then their system was BMX Bandit + Angel Summoner, plus there's the whole reprints/errata clusterfuck, which still wasn't resolved before I stopped paying attention literally years later.

My group likes the game, it kinda has a special place in the shelf of 'this is not a great game but we make it very fun so who cares' games, but yea BMX Bandit and Angel Summoner is the best way to describe it. Like, last time we played we kept things 'simple' by just playing a small group of members of a small noble house trying to keep their heads down and survive the wars and poo poo. We still wound up with one of us playing a house knight that was able to solo most everything we encountered and another guy playing a Maester who knew a lot of neat things. Both of these characters were very useful in their own ways but, ya know, when one was helping the other was just kinda going 'yep, good job' and if the 'help' was something like 'you need to hold the bandits off' or 'the lord is gravely ill and you need to figure a cure out' it wound up with a couple people just sitting on their hands.

We had fun making jokes and table talking and all, and it WAS a good representation of the books, but yea, in the books you don't care when there's a whole chapter about Jamie being a cool guy knight while Tyrion isn't mentioned because Tyrion isn't sitting at the table next to you as you read the chapter waiting for Jamie to be done being a cool guy.

On the other side of things, the Doctor Who game by Cubicle 7 that was mentioned actually does the whole 'this is a story about people with very different skills coming together' fairly well because of how things are resolved and unless you just make a soldier type who has LITERALLY no skills but 'I murder things good' even Jimmy Jarhead can help The Doctor try to settle a dispute between alien families without coming to blows and poo poo.

sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Mar 31, 2015

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Yea I'm so glad IKRPG proper stayed true with it because that's the most Iron Kingdoms solution to magic being dangerous.

"I need a powerful magic weapon to fight my enemy."

"Sorry man making that would probably make my eyes melt or some poo poo."

"Ok, make me four small magic weapons and strap them together then."

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Mors Rattus posted:

The thing about doing 7th Sea is that just doing the core book could never do it justice, for good or ill, because of all the insane reveals and crazy poo poo that came later, both good and bad. Like, from the core it's just some goofy, silly swashbuckling thing with bad rules.

It would later become a goofy, silly swashbuckling thing full of aliens, supertechnology and body-snatching robots.

7th Sea gets my respect just for the balls it takes to say 'actually this high seas swashbuckling fun we pitched you is about body stealing clockwork robots and an alien invasion SUCK IT'.

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I wanna prestige class into Imp

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Fatebinding, as a concept, was really really cool and in my group we loved using it.

Of course we had to take a knife to it, like with most Scion things, because as said before, great concept, terrible use.

Using 'fate' as a way to say 'the GM is allowed to just gently caress you' is terrible, but the core idea of 'no myths and poo poo not only are real but there's a vast cosmic force that runs through all of them that binds these powerful gods of death and life and poo poo to the world they're a part of no matter how strong they are'. It avoids Dr Manhattan syndrome by straight up shacking Zeus to his world and holding him accountable. The whole 'play your role' thing was also interesting, it gave 'divine' actions weight when you had to actually put some thought into stuff like your grudges and all. Spend three sessions obsessively trying to kill this rival demigod? Clearly he's your divine rival then, guess what now he equally hates your rear end and is trying to take you down too. If you summon a blast of lightning in your hand in the middle of a major city then yea probably you're going to get some guys going 'oh well that's clearly a god, cool hello new religion' regardless of if you're trying to or not.

The issue is, as said, making it hard and fast rules rather than a nebulous thing for story purposes. Hilariously, tying fate to random dice roles is probably the worst thing possible in stories like this.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Gnome-Titan Fighters have the potential for a lot of fun. Pixie-Fairie thief is pretty great too.

My group has a genuine, unironic, love for Hackmaster, it's got some clunk in there and yea 4e hid waaaay too far behind 'no it's a joke see' but there's this really good blend of actual love for old style D&D and also an utter contempt for many of the kinds of players old style D&D forged.

Also, while it's not F&F material really (I don't think) the 5th ed monster manual is probably one of my absolute favorite monster books period. It has the normal stat blocks, then it has a quick reference 'stat rose' with all the important stuff (DR, attack bonus, etc) and even a block for Monster Hunter style harvesting the corpse including medical, edible, and just straight up trophy 'loot' along with the obvious 'dragons have mad gold' stuff. Plus there's little asides from 'experts' for fluff and little details like pictures of tracks and poo poo. This is what I mean when I say there's actual love for the product, these dudes are clearly 100% into their concept and that's just really important in these heartbreaker type things.

sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 21:20 on May 24, 2015

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Fsmhunk posted:

It's actually pretty awesome, except the orc parts where they specify that they 'brutally rape' women, and that they'll die if you rescue them.

I super blocked that out I guess, gross as gently caress.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Night10194 posted:

Pathfinder SRD
As seen by civilized races, half-orcs are monstrosities, the result of perversion and violence—whether or not this is actually true. Half-orcs are rarely the result of loving unions, and as such are usually forced to grow up hard and fast, constantly fighting for protection or to make names for themselves. Half-orcs as a whole resent this treatment, and rather than play the part of the victim, they tend to lash out, unknowingly confirming the biases of those around them.

Pathfinder's pretty clear on implying it, though.

Yea hilariously Pathfinder is the only D&D version to actually take the 'orcs rape to make half-orcs' path, the rest were actually fairly good about 'nah we're not gonna go that route because that's dumb'.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Yea I really can't think of an RPG that works well if your party can take a nice leisurely nap every couple encounters when in 'adventure mode'

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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I need this game in my life

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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That, in my opinion, is why WFRP always worked for my group. Yea Charcoal Burner and Rat Catcher and all were joke jobs, but they weren't entirely useless, they had these weird angles where the rat catcher is secretly fighting Skaven in the sewers and poo poo like that. Plus there was this weird almost balance where yea even though Jimmy the rat catcher probably was gonna eat poo poo in combat...Mike the knight probably could too. The high lethality and all really unified characters and provided times like the knight going down and the poo poo farmer having to pick up the sword and kill the monster because gently caress you the lethality went both ways.

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sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

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Hostile V posted:

I like the angle that somewhere along the line, the shitfarmer learns chemistry and how methane and nitrates work and begins the journey from shitfarmer to medieval demolitions expert because they stepped up to test themselves and make a difference.

Yea hard to get more of a feeling of growth than going from a dude collecting twigs to burn into a guy dual wielding pistols taking on orc warbosses purely because you're one of the rare idiots who goes adventurous and lives.

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