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Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



I like the way 4e handled it. At level 11, everybody gets one, that runs alongside your existing class.

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Zereth
Jul 9, 2003




Note that this is extremely close to the cover of the Slayers movie:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Waffleman_ posted:

Why wouldn't it be?
I just wanted to make it very clear to people not familiar with Slayers.

After actually comparing them I'm honestly shocked they're as different as they are.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



The goal isn't "Have an RPG which handles Flatland well", it's "Test Kromore to destruction". :science:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Kavak posted:

Does she get praised as a super-duper warship but participate in almost nothing but losing battles, fire her guns at another ship exactly once, then get sunk as Japan is losing the war having accomplished nothing of note?
I'm going to guess yes, except without everything after and including the "but".

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Ah, that must be in Glorantha.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Hyper Crab Tank posted:

It actually isn't - but you're right that that's where the ducks are from. Yes, aside from the system, the one thing they decided was worth cribbing was the goddamn ducks.

They are consistently drawn as Donald Duck, too.
Oh wait yeah, I think I remember hearing about this game before.

I don't remember its name or anything about it other than "Donald Duck Style Ducks", though.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



FMguru posted:

Seriously: lava eleves
Man, elven abilities to settle in a place and take a generation or two to pick up location-specific adaptations doesn't really have a limit on what kind of environment it'll work on does it.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



LornMarkus posted:

You won't have to work hard for it, as it's my understanding their most recent world book for it was "Native American Stereotype land," and people were not happy about this.
Native American Stereotype Land that, from my understanding, they did just enough research for to make it even more offensive than you'd expect from that description.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



theironjef posted:

Yeah, I'd say the failing of the book is that it presents itself as a cartoon with real consequences for the foes but not the heroes. If they had genuinely adapted to the cartoon level, you could turn your classmates into frogs all day, because they pop back into being a human while the scene changes. If they had adapted it as a moral swamp, you could kill the bullies you encounter on the street, but then you're going to magic prison and poo poo, so don't. Instead, it's this weird middle ground where it's implied they just wander around killing people on a whim and no one says anything or does anything. It's especially notable since you're supposed to be playing people that are currently learning magic, which means there's experts out there way better than you, and the book is so adamant about not addressing adults that it doesn't even take a brief digression to say "Hey, your principal will straight up strip your magic powers if you use them wrong" or anything.

Honestly it's closer to Harry Potter than it wants to admit. Potter had a structure of laws and rules and poo poo, but it was all conveniently ignorable about 75% of the time, leading to students just trying constantly to kill each other, and teachers teaching them how, generally with no more serious repercussions than some bullshit house points.
And as such, it's presenting a setting where the witch hunters/anti-magic government agency/whatever else there was in the antagonists chapter are firmly in the right. These people are dangerous psychopaths and need to be stopped.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Forums Terrorist posted:

So basically I should run a game set in the Harry Potter books using Dark Heresy.
I meant Witch Girls but there's some dangerous poo poo being thrown around fairly casually in the Harry Potter books last I checked too.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Doresh posted:

Mmh, how do I delete posts? Stupid dodgy internet connection <_<
You don't.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Lurks With Wolves posted:

Well, or you can get your poo poo together and stop being obsessed with a show that's been cancelled for five years. You won't be a videomancer any more, but at least you can act like more of a human.
I feel like the sort of person who would become a videomancer would not be capable of doing that.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



theironjef posted:

I'd say most of the time the best stories you ever hear about gaming would still be great stories if the system had been the DM flipping a coin. It's exceedingly rare to hear a story that captures how the rules of the game were super awesome one time. And most of the time when you do, it's just some random chance thing that could have occurred anywhere. You'll see "D&D is the best! I was playing this campaign and I rolled two natural 20s!" Occasionally you see a story by a group of people that are gleefully breaking the bad stuff about a system and having a great time like "Well because the high end of this chart wasn't well thought out, my space marine threw the rest of the party and then himself to the base on the moon!"
One of my favorite gaming memories is the time I was playing (reskinned to be something modern-day but without affecting the mechanics) 4e and I Wizarded a big scary monster so hard it never got to attack. Which, since our Striker hadn't made it to the session that day so we were down a lot of damage potential, meant I had to do this for a while.


... the rest of my good gaming memories boil down to "And then I rolled well" or "And then a thing unrelated to the mechanics happened" though yeah. :v:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



theironjef posted:

If it helps Changing Breeds is currently being discussed again, for bad RPGs are a flat circle.
Yeah that very topic (snakes = music) just came up again in fact.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Ah, but they're gods because of the Darkness Devices! So, naturally, you need to separate them from those and destroy the things, thus rendering them vulnerable!

Except last I checked the Darkness Devices are indestructible, can gently caress you up and teleport away and poo poo on their own, and so on.

Did they ever release an adventure where you finally get to take out a High Lord?

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Green Intern posted:

It really sounds like the Torg writers didn't want the players to win.
I think it's more that the Torg writers didn't realize how loving difficult actually pulling off required things in their adventures would be.

The intro adventure in the core book, even if you teleport past the pirate skeletons to the thing you need to defuse, realize you need to defuse it instead of just smacking it, and so forth, requires you to draw specific types of cards for the purpose of the dramatic resolution system, which you have a pretty high chance of simply failing to draw them all in the right order in time, let alone make your skill rolls. And the penalty for failing at this is "Earth is pretty goddamn hosed globally".

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Evil Mastermind posted:

And yes, there are Torg-ian rules for martial arts styles.
Oh jesus I have to see this. Strap in for Nippon Tech I guess.

Drakyn posted:

Living Land because dinosaurs and also mocking the bizarre inability of people to produce anything interesting with dinosaurs.
And since it's apparently so tiny you'll probably be done pretty quickly and won't have to worry about getting bogged down in ninety pages of IngenNet pablum :v:
No no we should save the worst for last.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Evil Mastermind posted:

I'm actually getting very interested to see how people will react to the actual book given what everyone seems to be building it up to be.
I really want to see how TORG mishandles martial arts, so I'm not really building poo poo up here.


Evil Mastermind posted:

Technically no, because even though Nippon Tech has a tech level that allows for things like flying cars, laser rifles, and cloning, the computer tech is ridiculously underwhelming.

Sneak preview!


Tech predictions will never not be funny.
Oh man a floating-point co-processor. Man that's so impressive.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Cythereal posted:

Also, it's a recurring theme that mortals simply can't understand the mad super-science of the Inspired. Their stuff simply doesn't work by the rules of the normal world and shouldn't work at all. It's the power of Mania and Inspiration that makes these impossible wonders work - that tesla gun, that super-suit, that cybernetic rig... so yeah it's magic for all intents and purposes but dressed up as science.
Does it still work if the 'Genius' hands it to a non-wizard and leaves?

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Cythereal posted:

No, that triggers Havoc. You want to keep mortals as far away from Inspiration as possible. Mortals who get access to Wonders will quite reasonably point out all the ways it simply cannot work according to the laws of science, which in turn tends to make the Wonder explode or fall apart.
So it's not science. Even a little.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



If it was obvious that it shouldn't work and was patently insane, but just sat there doing its thing no matter what onlookers thought of it the "Geniuses" would actually have a claim to be mad scientists. They're just weirder more hosed up wizards! :argh:


Tulul posted:

It's stupider then that, because literally touching a wonder causes ParadoxHavoc. If a Genius' robot attacks you, just punch it and it might go haywire.
I just realized this actually kinda fits in a pulp adventure way. The stalwart good-hearted hero gives the robot a good, solid punch and it flips out and falls apart because the mad scientist was, you know, crazy and didn't build it properly.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Mors Rattus posted:

The closest nWoD has to an Illuminati is the God-Machine, which is basically just an infinitely old weird poo poo generator that does strange and terrible things for no reason anyone can fathom.
Note that this applies even to its own agents. They don't know what its goals are (just what it wants them to do right now), and it certainly doesn't apply to the agents which break free of it. It's a matter of some debate if the God-Machine even has a goal, or self-awareness for that matter.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Nessus posted:

To play Girl Genius: Modern.
Which doesn't work because in Girl Genius the only thing non-Sparks have the problem with is understanding the creations. They can use, maintain, even build things designed by Sparks fine.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Kai Tave posted:

In Feng Shui's case the problem with the Buro juncture was less a case of metaplot-armored NPCs stomping on the PCs' faces forever and more that the Buro juncture was kind of a dull place to visit in general.
Which is especially bad since, as the futuremost Juncture, it holds little strategic value in the Secret War, while victories over important sites in past junctures affect all future ones. And I'm not convinced "Mad Max Cyberapeocalypse" is much better there.


Carrasco posted:

If I remember correctly, there are, but if you don't do it just right then everyone within range of them just dies.

You had to inspire people (by doing awesome poo poo, in a specific mechanical manner which may or may not actually be an awesome thing, then brag about it with lots of rolls) as I recall, and the way the Nippon Tech juncture works appears to make that hard to impossible since nobody gives a poo poo about anything except money.

EDIT: Which does seem like it has interesting story potential, in that you need to get 3342's Darkness Device from him, and adjust the world until it's possible for people to care enough about thins to survive the transition except wait they're sapient and malevolent and would not go along with this at all

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Evil Mastermind posted:

And that brings us back around to the idea someone had upthread of making Baruk Kahh the insane crossbreeding guy who's growing super-dinos and grafting other dinosaurs to them
Clearly your cyber-arm with a gun in it should turn into a dino-arm that shoots acid-coated bone darts or something like that in that zone.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Cythereal posted:

Uh, if you're talking about Genius with regards to axioms, there's no real difference between organic and non-organic wonders. Making life is the preserve of Automata, which can make robots or living creatures as you prefer. Making godzilla/zerg/kryptonians is entirely doable with Automata. With anything else, you're free to say you're making a wonder with genetically engineered plants or are chopping up stray dogs for parts to make your wonder.
They're clearly talking about Torg? :confused:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Evil Mastermind posted:

Tharkold is actually pretty well done, but has so amazing poo poo that I can't wait to talk about because it's gonna make the whole thread uncomfortable. It's :biotruths: squared.
Uh oh.

FMguru posted:

Most of the Torg cosms are "like escapist genre X, but with a twist". The pulp world was mixed with ancient Egypt, the cyberpunk world was mixed with corrupt medieval papacy, the other cyberpunk world was full of Hellraiser demons, the sci-fi world uses giant tree-ships to travel between stars, and so on. The fantasy world stood out for how generic it was, compared to the others.
Ancient Egypt stuff doesn't seem out of place for normal pulp stuff to me, honestly.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Cythereal posted:

And yes, geniuses are for all intents and purposes mages. The book even points out that it's very, very difficult to tell the difference between the two and posits a genius/mage liaison group that exists to take care of newly awakening mages and geniuses mistaken for the other.
What arguments do they make for how they're not actually the same thing, only with extra crazy on the Genius side?

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Evil Mastermind posted:

There's also the factor that magic in games like UA, 13th Age, Mage, Dungeon World, and so on isn't an auto-success. In those games casters have chances of failure and/or consequences for screwing up a spell.

D&D magic isn't just an "I Win" button, it's an "I Win" button with no downsides or risks.
Sometimes it's expensive!

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Evil Mastermind posted:

Did anyone ever actually have casters track somatic components?
You're thinking of material components, and I was thinking of the ones which have actual money cost listed.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Kavak posted:

On that note, what was the inspiration for the spellcaster supremacy besides nerd wish fulfillment? Gandalf casts very little actual magic in LOTR, Elric's main weapon is a super sword, Conan slaughters wizards and sorcerors, etc.
I believe wizards in Chainmail were artillery units. Like, literally, they were the same category as catapults and trebuchets and such. Then they got utility spells too. And then feature creep happened, and also "every special ability is a spell", and the rest is history.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Night10194 posted:

I read a lot of it was that the playtesters played their wizards like 2e Wizards, using them as blaster artillery instead of trying out Save or Suck spells, and they never really caught on to how powerful those were until people who hadn't played 2e got their hands on them and realized you could effectively one-shot people with them with good odds.
Yeah, they changed how saves work massively, from a set table for your class/level, with the possibilities of bonuses or very rarely penalties. To wizards being able to stack modifiers to make their saves really hard. And then choose from a wide variety of "gently caress you" spells that target all saves to exploit their target's weak save. Which was usually easy to tell from the general type.


Meanwhile for divine casters, buffing yourself and loving things up was a better option than buffing the Fighter, plus druids could turn into a loving bear or something and still cast spells thanks to one simple feat.



RandallODim posted:

One day I'm going to make a fighter focused on grappling who gives out atomic wedgies and power noogies. His dream is to one day deliver a cosmic swirlie to Boccob.
Try a 4e Brawler Fighter.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



FMguru posted:

There are actually three different sets of stories in Dying Earth, with different magic systems. The original stories gave us classic "Vancian" magic, where people could memorize up to 4-6 spells which they would forget when they cast them, and they'd all have very precise and repeatable effects (it was implied that this magic was essentially a remnants of a long-lost branch of mathematics). Because you could only carry a handful of one-shot spells in your head at once, the magician-protagonist characters in those stories were loaded up with magic items and armor and were also very handy with swords, completely unlike D&D's "98-pound weakling in his bathrobe" conception of a wizard.

Wasn't it not really practical to bring spell tomes with you, too? Like an individual spell was contained in a large book, by itself, or something, so you loaded up with spells at your library, then you went out to do whatever you were planning on, and if you wanted more spells you had to drop everything and go all the way back home?

quote:

Vance's final series of DE stories involved a conclave of archmages who spent all their time scheming against each other (and inviting themselves to dinner) when they weren't flying their magic palaces to other galaxies or suchlike. They did very little actual magic - instead they bound these powerful djinni-like creatures (called Sandestins) to their service and forced them to do incredibly powerful things for them (like stop time, or fly my magic palace to a distant galaxy, or similar). The Sandestins would get back at their captors by scrupulously obeying their instructions to the letter while trying to subvert their spirit.
Seems kind of accurate for high-level 3.x wizards, really! :v:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Cythereal posted:

I remember the quite thorough reviews of the setting being enjoyable, but also a player going "So, uh, what are we supposed to do with this high seas swashbuckling pirate stuff when there's no Caribbean, no search for gold, etc?" and Wick going "You're supposed to emulate Chinese river piracy, duh."
... the ships were like the ones from the corresponding era of real history, right?

You know, absolutely not designed to fit in rivers?

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



The Lone Badger posted:

Would Dr. Dinosaur be a good example of an Unmada? He spouts crazy bullshit that is obviously nonsense but... somehow isn't, and makes elaborate nonsense machines that can do anything if it involves crystals.
There's a decent chance he's just lying.

EDIT: I mean, he's openly admitted at least once to putting a thing in a machine that had no purpose other than to make it look cooler.

EDIT: In fact, here it is:

Zereth fucked around with this message at 16:10 on May 15, 2015

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Covok posted:

Just because your simple mammalian brain cannot contemplate the superior machinations of his reptilian genius does not mean you can make slanderous propaganda like this!

Do you forget when his
Hm. I think I'm behind, actually. I don't remember reading that one!

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Covok posted:

Fallout: Equestria? Really? Really!?

...Why? Just, why?
Because nerds.

Xand_Man posted:

What happens if the GM ignores THAT rule?
Your book bursts into flames. How did you think I got these scars? :confused:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



oriongates posted:

Now, there's one big limit on Tilts: every element you use can only be used once and never again. Speak your name aloud to represent yourself in the ritual? Well, that won't work again for any Tilt ritual you ever perform. Similar elements can work (for instance using a nick name, writing your name instead of speaking it, using your first name and last name separately, etc) but you can never re-use the exact elements for any Tilt ritual.
So ideally you want your element you're using to boost your Tilt to be 100% specific to the Tilt in question? If you need to represent yourself, represent yourself in a way that applies to the Tilt you're doing, and only that tilt?

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Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Institutional "Demons" aren't Demons. They're God-machine tools. That are probably tended by Angels (which can turn into Demons, ad thus PCs) but they're not Angels, any more than a mundane factory is a factory worker.

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