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HT Beck for the title. This thread is mostly for "Bridgegate", aka "Lied to Christie-gate", aka "But Benghazi", but using Sandy aid to overpay on Christie campaign commercials and the Jersey City Mayor Fulop punishment and the pipeline stuff can go here, too. Basically, anything that might cruelly rob us of future apocryphal "President stuck in bathtub" stories. Subpoenas are going to be issued tomorrow, according to a number of sources. Let's not darken too many pixels about what this means for the GOP at large or the 2014 elections etc. as that's probably a better fit in the other threads. Some "this will destroy/bypass Christie you fools" stuff is inevitable but let's keep that down to a dull roar. Timeline (doesn't include Christie meeting Sampson in early August): http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/timeline_of_the_port_authoritys_george_washington_bridge_lane_closure_controversy.html Documents released by the state Assembly: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/legislativepub/pubhearings2014.asp I've put an asterisk next to people who have been subpoenaed. Christie's -Bridget Anne Kelly*. Former Deputy Chief of Staff. Sent the "time for some traffic problems in Ft. Lee" text to Wildstein. Fired January 9th because she is an idiot and a liar. -Bill Stepien*. Former campaign manager and "enforcer". Up and comer who was going to head the state GOP. Told Wildstein that Sokolich was an "idiot". Also fired January 9th. -Charles B. McKenna*. Current Chief Counsel. Wildstein texted Baroni that "Charlie said you did GREAT" regarding his November 25th testimony, and we're pretty sure that this is that Charlie. Also pretty sure that the testimony was not great. -Michael Drewniak*. Christie's press secretary. Had dinner with Wildstein a few days before Wildstein resigned. Nicole's husband. -Nicole Davidman Drewniak*. A Christie fundraiser. Michael's wife. -Kevin O'Dowd*. Christie's outgoing chief of staff. Was going to be NJ's attorney general but that seems up in the air now. -Regina Egea*. Christie's incoming chief of staff. She got a copy of Foye's white knight email. -Maria Comella*. Deputy chief of staff for communications. -Colin Reed*. Deputy communications director. -Matt Mower*. Executive director of the New Hampshire Republican Party, former Christie aide. Asked Sokolich for endorsement. Was the college Republican's college Republican at Rutgers. -Christina Renna*. Director of intergovernmental affairs, resigned February 2nd. Didn't hear much about her until she resigned, turns out she got a subpoena too. NY & NJ Port Authority (weird transportation infrastructure organization shared by NY and NJ) people: -David Wildstein*. Former Director of Interstate Projects. Was "Wally Edge", kind of a mini NJ "Drudge" before being he got a job at Port Authority "with Christie's blessing" in 2010. He was Christie's eyes and ears and fist at the Port Authority. Went to high school with Christie, but Christie plausibly says they weren't friends at the time. Other efforts to distance himself have been less plausible, and there is a picture of Christie, Samson, Baroni, and Wildstein together on third day of shutdown aka September 11th. Resigned December 6th because of bridge "distraction". Tried to get out of testifying because some signatures didn't match and come on how can you testify under those kind of conditions. Took the 5th in front of the state Assembly panel on January 8th and held in contempt. His attorney floated immunity-for-testimony. -Bill Baroni*. Former Deputy Executive Director. Appointed by Christie in 2010. Testified November of 25th to state Assembly panel that Wildstein had ordered a traffic study. Ran interference with the press. Resigned December 12th, a few days after Foye testified that there was no study. -David Samson*. Chairman. Appointed by Christie in 2010. Met with Christie a week before Kelly sent the kick-off to Wildstein. Talked poo poo about Foye for being a rogue white knight glory hound when Foye ended the closures. Wildstein said Samson would "help retaliate" after Foye re-opened the lanes. Probably not long for his job. -Pat Foye*. Executive Director. Cuomo appointee who re-opened the lanes on September 13th. Called out the shenanigans in a CYA email; likes to say "hasty and ill-advised". Testified on December 9th that there was no traffic study, which sealed Baroni's fate. NJ Assemblymen / Special Committee / Investigators people -John Wisniewski: Democratic Assemblyman, committee chairman -John Amodeo: Republican Asseblyman, ran half-hearted interference -Reid Schar: Blagojevitch prosecutor tapped to be Bridgegate prosecutor. -Rosemary Arnold: Lawyer who filed federal class action lawsuit for six Fort Lee residents. Possible Targets -Mark Sokolich/Development Project: Mayor of Fort Lee. Slovenian, I think. Did not endorse Christie for re-election. About leaving him in the dark as the town was choked in traffic, Wildstein wrote "Radio Silence. His name comes right after Mayor Fulop", presumably another guy on the "do not talk to" list. Steve Kornacki and Brian Murphy suggested that the $1 billion mixed use development under the bridge that Sokolich is trying to sew up might be related to the closures as well. They both used to work for Wildstein when he was "Wally Edge". -Loretta Weinberg: NJ Senate Majority Leader. Her district includes Fort Lee. Rachel Maddow proposed that the timing of the closure suggests it might be related to the legislature promising to block Christie's judgeship appointments. Maybe not a perfect fit but still a possibility: http://www.seattlepi.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Rachel-Maddow-Has-A-Totally-Different-Theory-5136210.php pangstrom fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 20:32
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Does this entire mess flip the NJ governorship next election? Even if Christie's national election efforts sputter out and he looks to keep his state position, I don't see a lot of his cross-aisle support holding up or supporting another republican governor in Christie's wake.
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Jan 16, 2014 21:34
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joeburz posted:Does this entire mess flip the NJ governorship next election? Even if Christie's national election efforts sputter out and he looks to keep his state position, I don't see a lot of his cross-aisle support holding up or supporting another republican governor in Christie's wake. Christie can not run for reelection per NJ law. Its also way too early to evaluate a successor.
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Jan 16, 2014 21:40
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pangstrom posted:Possible Targets Minor nitpick: he's Croat. Also, the idea was floated in the general GOP thread that Christie staffers intentionally referred to him as other Balkans-ethnicities intentionally as insults.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:07
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Look, that's only like 8 or 9 people that Christie has direct contact with on an ongoing basis. How could he possibly have known about all this?
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Jan 16, 2014 22:23
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joeburz posted:Does this entire mess flip the NJ governorship next election? Even if Christie's national election efforts sputter out and he looks to keep his state position, I don't see a lot of his cross-aisle support holding up or supporting another republican governor in Christie's wake. Has NJ managed to hold two governors of the same party back to back in recent history anyway? Since I've been alive was what, Florio - Whitman - McGreevy - Corzine (doesnt really count since he had to jump in when McSkeevy resigned) - Fat gently caress. or D R D D R The sandy aid is an actual story, but why is this whole bridge thing such a big drat deal? Oh big woop, fort lee wound up with traffic twice as bad as usual. If he shut down like, the rail line from Newark as revenge against Booker i could see it being more of a story.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:25
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AA is for Quitters posted:Has NJ managed to hold two governors of the same party back to back in recent history anyway? Since I've been alive was what, Florio - Whitman - McGreevy - Corzine (doesnt really count since he had to jump in when McSkeevy resigned) - Fat gently caress. or D R D D R You've never been stuck on the GW in bad traffic, have you? Less flippantly, not only is a prime example of abuse of power for petty revenge, there were real-world impacts due to emergency responders being unable to get to 911 calls in time, as well as busloads of schoolkids essentially stranded for hours (on the first day of classes). This is not a nothing scandal, not at all.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:27
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AA is for Quitters posted:The sandy aid is an actual story, but why is this whole bridge thing such a big drat deal? Oh big woop, fort lee wound up with traffic twice as bad as usual. If he shut down like, the rail line from Newark as revenge against Booker i could see it being more of a story. He abused his power to extract political revenge. That is not okay.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:36
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It's always interesting to see my home state's political process laid bare to the world like this. People are so shocked that such an openly corrupt and petty political process can somehow still survive in 21st Century America (outside of Chicago). Who is that semi-mafia related guy in South Jersey who runs half the state, again? I'm surprised he isn't in prison or something. Oh, and I worked for Bill Baroni in high school! I didn't know he ever got beyond state senator. I remember having a dumb argument about gun rights with him when I was an angsty teenager.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:44
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The real question here is whether or not Christie is an enemy of Rutgers' athletics.
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Jan 16, 2014 22:58
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Even if none of this actually sticks, it really makes Christie look like a total corrupt sleaze. If I've got this all right, the current things being looked into are 1) did he close 3 lanes of the GWB for retribution against Fort Lee, 2) did he use Hurricane Sandy relief funds to backdoor fund political ads about himself, and 3) does he have some kind of list of people who he ignores based on some kind of political retribution policy. If there's anything to any of these, there will be people rolling over on him as soon as the feds issue subpoenas.Captain_Maclaine posted:Minor nitpick: he's Croat. Also, the idea was floated in the general GOP thread that Christie staffers intentionally referred to him as other Balkans-ethnicities intentionally as insults. This is some Paradox Interactive Forums level poo poo right here.
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Jan 16, 2014 23:01
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Minor nitpick: he's Croat. Also, the idea was floated in the general GOP thread that Christie staffers intentionally referred to him as other Balkans-ethnicities intentionally as insults. vv it was dumb no worries pangstrom fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 23:07
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pangstrom posted:(Yeah it was just a dumb joke) I am undone 
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Jan 16, 2014 23:09
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Hasn't Christie been floating his name as a Presidential candidate? I can't see this helping him on that road--but it's also suspicious because of that too. I'm pretty confident that all this evil is pretty apparent and that this really is a scandelous abuse of power, but I can't help but wonder if there's a larger game being played here.
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Jan 16, 2014 23:11
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Hasn't Christie been floating his name as a Presidential candidate? I can't see this helping him on that road--but it's also suspicious because of that too. I'm pretty confident that all this evil is pretty apparent and that this really is a scandelous abuse of power, but I can't help but wonder if there's a larger game being played here. That is 100% of the reason anyone cares about this outside of New Jersery/New York.
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Jan 16, 2014 23:29
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Given the fact that an elderly woman may have died because of the traffic being held up, could charges be made against anyone?
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Jan 17, 2014 00:18
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TsarZiedonis posted:It's always interesting to see my home state's political process laid bare to the world like this. People are so shocked that such an openly corrupt and petty political process can somehow still survive in 21st Century America (outside of Chicago). I lived in Florida during the time when the biggest Medicare fraudster in America's history got elected as our governor. I'm not that shocked.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:15
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TsarZiedonis posted:People are so shocked that such an openly corrupt and petty political process can somehow still survive in 21st Century America (outside of Chicago). And New York.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:16
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MinionOfCthulhu posted:Given the fact that an elderly woman may have died because of the traffic being held up, could charges be made against anyone? I wouldn't think so. What exactly would be the charge? Indirect involuntary letting a person die? I'm pretty sure when SCOTUS decided Everybody v. Everybody they overturned the butterfly statute last year.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:29
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joeburz posted:Does this entire mess flip the NJ governorship next election? Even if Christie's national election efforts sputter out and he looks to keep his state position, I don't see a lot of his cross-aisle support holding up or supporting another republican governor in Christie's wake. NJ seems to naturally switch between the parties as was noted above. I don't think it would as NJ politics are more complicated than that. Christie is aligned with legislative Democrats right now against legislative Republicans, who are led by Tom Kean Jr., the presumed 2017 GOP frontrunner. The race for Democrats has Steve Fulop and Steve Sweeney as presumed early frontrunners. Fulop actually was allied with Christie as a Jersey City councilman before he won the mayor's race last year, before pulling a complete 180 and pushing hard to the left and pretty much immediately running for Governor. He has more naked ambition than Cory Booker, if you can believe that. And yet, he's still a far better choice than Steve Sweeney, who's one of the most corrupt politicians in America, and probably will be indicted at some point. Sweeney, by the way, was accused by another state senator of trying to quash the investigation. He also has almost know chance of winning since he's widely hated among politcos, and represents a tiny part of the state. The only reason he's considered a strong candidate is because he's the #2 guy in the machine right now that has dominated state politics for the past decade. Sweeney doesn't have a chance in hell of getting the nomination, but if he somehow did, you'd have a pro-Christie, socially conservative Democrat against an anti-Christie, socially liberal Republican in Kean.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:31
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Qublai Qhan posted:I wouldn't think so. What exactly would be the charge? Indirect involuntary letting a person die? I'm pretty sure when SCOTUS decided Everybody v. Everybody they overturned the butterfly statute last year.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:34
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Christie and bridges, in happier days.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:41
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Kim Jong Il posted:Sweeney doesn't have a chance in hell of getting the nomination, but if he somehow did, you'd have a pro-Christie, socially conservative Democrat against an anti-Christie, socially liberal Republican in Kean. As an external spectator, that'd be amusing to watch. Actual Jerseyites may disagree.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:44
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MinionOfCthulhu posted:Given the fact that an elderly woman may have died because of the traffic being held up, could charges be made against anyone? Given that the call was for a 90+ year old unresponsive, the argument could be made that she wouldn't have survived no matter what. They could try but I doubt any prosecutor would want to take on such a case. They might be able to pull of a civil suit.
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Jan 17, 2014 02:45
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David Wildstein, the former Port Authority executive took the 5th when he was subpoenaed by the New Jersey Assembly last thursday, so there must be the threat of prosecution in this scandal.
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Jan 17, 2014 03:33
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Edmund Lava posted:Given that the call was for a 90+ year old unresponsive, the argument could be made that she wouldn't have survived no matter what. They could try but I doubt any prosecutor would want to take on such a case. They might be able to pull of a civil suit. "She was so old she'd probably have croaked anyway" ranks right up there with Joe Lhota's "I'd kill kittens to keep the subway running" comment as "things that may be regrettably true but for gently caress's sake don't say them out loud and expect to have a career."
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Jan 17, 2014 05:23
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Edmund Lava posted:Given that the call was for a 90+ year old unresponsive, the argument could be made that she wouldn't have survived no matter what. They could try but I doubt any prosecutor would want to take on such a case. They might be able to pull of a civil suit. I'm pretty sure the family of the deceased weren't interested in pressing charges, saying that it was "her time" anyway. In other news, it appears that Wildstein's employment at the Port Authority was based solely on being friends with Christie. In fact, his specific position at the agency didn't even exist previously. CNN.com posted:Give him a position at the top of the agency; he's a good friend of the governor. Bridge-gate aside, this is the kind of blatant political cronyism that tends to rub people the wrong way.
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Jan 17, 2014 05:26
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Bridge-gate aside, this is the kind of blatant political cronyism that tends to rub people the wrong way. Last time American's knew of crony-appointees, the goddamn president thought he was doing a "Heckuva job!"
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Jan 17, 2014 05:42
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TsarZiedonis posted:People are so shocked that such an openly corrupt and petty political process can somehow still survive in 21st Century America (outside of Chicago). ThirdPartyView posted:And New York. Local politics is just plain corrupt across the board, it's just the scale that makes it notable in big cities. Any Southern small town will put Chicago or New Jersey to shame, but when only a few thousand people are affected (and most of them are probably on board with the good ol' boy network anyway) it just doesn't draw much attention.
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Jan 17, 2014 06:00
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Local politics is just plain corrupt across the board, it's just the scale that makes it notable in big cities. Any Southern small town will put Chicago or New Jersey to shame, but when only a few thousand people are affected (and most of them are probably on board with the good ol' boy network anyway) it just doesn't draw much attention.
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Jan 17, 2014 06:07
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What's wrong with a politician using his powers in this way? I've lived in the USA for 40 years, and I thought this was normal. At least it isn't like in other countries where politicians pretend they aren't corrupt.
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Jan 17, 2014 07:27
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Qublai Qhan posted:I wouldn't think so. What exactly would be the charge? Indirect involuntary letting a person die? I'm pretty sure when SCOTUS decided Everybody v. Everybody they overturned the butterfly statute last year. Its still a crime to intentionally stop and block emergency services. Might just be a fine usually, but on this degree it could be more.
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Jan 17, 2014 07:51
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Jakcson posted:What's wrong with a politician using his powers in this way? Are you serious? You think there's nothing wrong with holding up people for nearly double-digit hours and delaying first responders in service of petty political payback? More importantly, you think that American politicians don't pretend they aren't corrupt? Are you trolling?
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Jan 17, 2014 08:00
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Heavy neutrino posted:Are you serious? You think there's nothing wrong with holding up people for nearly double-digit hours and delaying first responders in service of petty political payback? More importantly, you think that American politicians don't pretend they aren't corrupt? Are you trolling? On a more serious note, when you ask me if I think American politicians don't pretend they are corrupt, should that be considered an admission on your part that you think they are corrupt? If so, how does that invalidate what I said?
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Jan 17, 2014 08:04
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Jakcson posted:On a more serious note, when you ask me if I think American politicians don't pretend they are corrupt, should that be considered an admission on your part that you think they are corrupt? You're implying there's nothing wrong with it.
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Jan 17, 2014 08:06
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Okay this is going to be really complicated so try to follow me on this: that you're aware of rampant corruption, conflicts of interest, self-dealing and collusion within the elite and political classes doesn't mean you can't be outraged when details of such comes out, and it certainly doesn't mean that there's nothing wrong with it.
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Jan 17, 2014 08:07
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Xandu posted:You're implying there's nothing wrong with it. Historically speaking, that's pretty much how every government has done things. I know it would be nice if ours wasn't corrupt, but unfortunately, we are just like everyone else. It would be awesome if that weren't the case, but sometimes you just have to accept the fact that we are corrupt, and that we have to live within a corrupt system. I'd say there was something wrong with it, but until a government exists that is better than ours, I'm afraid I just have to be OK with it. Besides, I live in the USA. I don't want the secret police to kill me. Jakcson fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 08:11
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Jakcson posted:Historically speaking, that's pretty much how every government has done things. The proper response to corruption isn't to go along with it. You're confusing/manipulating the is/ought distinction. Just because something is doesn't mean that's how it ought to be.
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Jan 17, 2014 08:22
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Jakcson posted:On a more serious note, when you ask me if I think American politicians don't pretend they are corrupt, should that be considered an admission on your part that you think they are corrupt?
There are still some forms of corruption which the American public probably isn't willing to accept. For instance:
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Jan 17, 2014 08:37
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Jakcson posted:Historically speaking, that's pretty much how every government has done things. It's attitudes like yours that contribute to the enabling of corruption. If you're part of the problem, why should your opinion matter?
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Jan 17, 2014 08:41
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