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Cultural Imperial posted:I asked this question in the newbies finance thread so apologies in advance if it's not appropriate for me to ask again here. Let's say I'm making 100k as a permanent employee. What salary do I need to ask for if I were to go into contracting? What does insurance and assorted overhead cost in the US?
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Mar 27, 2014 23:44
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Cultural Imperial posted:I asked this question in the newbies finance thread so apologies in advance if it's not appropriate for me to ask again here. Let's say I'm making 100k as a permanent employee. What salary do I need to ask for if I were to go into contracting? What does insurance and assorted overhead cost in the US? The rule of thumb is to divide your annual salary by 1000 and use that as your 1099 hourly rate; in your case, $100 an hour. This is because of all the expenses you'll have to pay yourself, as swenblack mentioned.
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Mar 28, 2014 00:19
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I received an offer today from a company that I'd really like to work for, but the offer was lower than I thought. I currently make $50k, they said that the position they're offering usually starts at $36k, but that given my experience they would be willing to go "significantly higher". The benefits are about the same and its 2 blocks from my house, so even if they could match my current salary (honestly a little less even) i'd be happy. Should I ask for $55k and see what happens or just say its lower than my current range. The offer was via email and I have a negotiation interview next week, should I reply via email with a number or wait until the interview to discuss?
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Mar 28, 2014 00:43
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Ethanfr0me posted:I received an offer today from a company that I'd really like to work for, but the offer was lower than I thought. I currently make $50k, they said that the position they're offering usually starts at $36k, but that given my experience they would be willing to go "significantly higher". The benefits are about the same and its 2 blocks from my house, so even if they could match my current salary (honestly a little less even) i'd be happy.
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Mar 28, 2014 01:16
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swenblack posted:I think you forgot to post the actual offer. Do you know what your skill set is actually worth in your market? Letter reads: We would like to schedule a meeting on X to discuss salary and finalize your employment. Typically, this position has a starting salary of $36,000 per year with annual raises of 10%. Given your qualifications, we feel that we can begin significantly higher. If you can provide us your current salary, we can use this to best determine your salary at X company *Health & Dental Coverage. *Vacation of (2) weeks per year: 1st Year: (1) week unpaid / (1) week paid 2nd Year and beyond: (2) weeks paid. *Sick Leave: (5) days per year. *Profit Sharing: Annual Bonus typical (2) weeks – (1) month salary per year depending on profitability and growth. *Food Plan: Lunch provided by company up to three times per week + Espresso bar. *personal purchases at 10% over cost I am a logistics manager, I would be moving from a 30 person corporate company to a 6 person small business. I know that $50k is in the middle of the scale in my area but I also have 5.5 years experience. I want to negotiate 2 weeks paid vacation / clarify holidays off the bat as well and iron out the medical / dental plan details.
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Mar 28, 2014 01:59
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Ethanfr0me posted:Letter reads: The old show us your current salary is one of the oldest tricks in the book to undermine your negotiating position.
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Mar 28, 2014 02:21
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Yeah, what you need to do is frame that around your expectations, not your current salary. They've given you a number (albeit one that they've said they'll go higher on), so you need to shoot back with your actual (inflated) expectations.
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Mar 28, 2014 02:24
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Xandu posted:Yeah, what you need to do is frame that around your expectations, not your current salary. They've given you a number (albeit one that they've said they'll go higher on), so you need to shoot back with your actual (inflated) expectations. Should I wait until the interview to fire back a counteroffer or send an email along the lines of "with my experience / talents I would expect to be in the $50-60k range, I'd like to get a better understanding of the overall compensation at our meeting, confident that we can reach an agreement, etc."
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Mar 28, 2014 03:13
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Don't give a range. Give your high point.
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Mar 28, 2014 03:44
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Ethanfr0me posted:Should I wait until the interview to fire back a counteroffer or send an email along the lines of "with my experience / talents I would expect to be in the $50-60k range, I'd like to get a better understanding of the overall compensation at our meeting, confident that we can reach an agreement, etc." Don't say you're confident until you are. It sounds like you aren't really sure of yourself, so that meeting is for them to put the full court press on you and get you to sign on. I'd reply enthusiastically and state your number.
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Mar 28, 2014 05:19
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Fiedler posted:It's me again. Here's where things stand: Definitely nothing to sneeze at, but if it's your first round with D then you definitely have the option of going back and I don't think you're risking losing the offer unless they've said that it's a final offer. You can say that including cost of living increases, their offer is in-line with competing offers. If they increase by X% they will be a clear winner and you will accept; that's usually a good way to get an extra notch. Ethanfr0me posted:Should I wait until the interview to fire back a counteroffer or send an email along the lines of "with my experience / talents I would expect to be in the $50-60k range, I'd like to get a better understanding of the overall compensation at our meeting, confident that we can reach an agreement, etc." Echoing the last few posts, you need to be friendly but firm. Don't go into that meeting without giving them a target to shoot for. Don't start at the middle of the range for your area, start at the top and let them pull you down. If the number is (say) $60k, start there and if they go below that it gives you leverage to get the soft increases like PTO etc. Use the prompt letters from a few pages back for the kind of wording to consider using, and as a reminder, include all the terms in the letter - package deal, not itemized. That way when they get you in a room and try to gang up on you hopefully you're close to an acceptable deal. Btw, if you want some ammo to support higher numbers, consider taking their starting pay, applying your years of experience to the raise percentage and starting pay they quoted so 36,000 X 1.1^5.5 or ~$60,000. This calc shouldn't be in your response, keep it in your pocket for when they try to come back at you in the final negotiation.
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Mar 28, 2014 08:01
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Definitely nothing to sneeze at, but if it's your first round with D then you definitely have the option of going back and I don't think you're risking losing the offer unless they've said that it's a final offer. You can say that including cost of living increases, their offer is in-line with competing offers. If they increase by X% they will be a clear winner and you will accept; that's usually a good way to get an extra notch. Since I have a negotiation interview scheduled, should I wait until then to fire back or email them a counter offer? I've heard that it might be easier to gauge their reaction / negotiate in person rather than start the conversation via email when the purpose of the forthcoming interview is to discuss salary.
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Mar 28, 2014 15:21
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Ethanfr0me posted:Since I have a negotiation interview scheduled, should I wait until then to fire back or email them a counter offer? I've heard that it might be easier to gauge their reaction / negotiate in person rather than start the conversation via email when the purpose of the forthcoming interview is to discuss salary. If you don't reply back in advance, you will only be able to negotiate up from their 'anchor' (the initial number they threw out) in person and of they are pressuring you this could be difficult. You would be much better served by responding with a letter to communicate your expectations on what a package would look like. I'll write a prompt response here with square brackets as this to fill in. You can of course change whatever you want: Dear [hiring manager], Thank you for your offer. I enjoyed my interview with [you and your team] and I'm interested in the opportunity but would like to clarify a few points in advance of our meeting on [date]. The points I would like to raise are as follows: 1. Salary: as you noted, $36,000 would not be an attractive starting place based on my experience. My expectation for a salary offer for this position would be [$X where x is determined as noted in the posts above] 2. PTO: given my experience, I would want to have two weeks paid leave per year immediately, rather than over time. 3. [Any other points you want to counter and/or clarify from their offer. Remember, you lose most of your negotiating leverage once you accept a a salary so of you forget to mention health benefits or whatever you will likely need to take what they give you] I look forward to hearing your response on these points and to the opportunity to work at [company]. Regards, [You] --------------------- Again, it's really important you don't go into that meeting without having made a counter offer. Among other things, if you try to counter with a number they weren't expecting, they will have to jump the mental hurdles to paying you that while you're sitting there and may not make it. Providing them your expectation in advance gives them time to consider the idea and also gives you a position to negotiate from that you aren't introducing in the meeting. Ideally, you will get a counter offer that is very close to what you want in advance of the meeting, and you should consider asking for one. Your face to face negotiations will go much better should you be relatively close and just be hammering out the short strokes in person.
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Mar 28, 2014 17:56
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Otto Skorzeny posted:Are there any CoL calculators out there that can get the math right for living in one state and working in another? Just do it twice, once from where you live for the costs, and one from where you work for the salary differential.
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Mar 28, 2014 18:10
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Ethanfr0me posted:Since I have a negotiation interview scheduled, should I wait until then to fire back or email them a counter offer? I've heard that it might be easier to gauge their reaction / negotiate in person rather than start the conversation via email when the purpose of the forthcoming interview is to discuss salary. If they won't at least match your present salary then you probably can save you and them the trouble of in person negotiation. Go ahead and email them back with what you want. If they totally balk you can save yourself time.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:24
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:If they won't at least match your present salary then you probably can save you and them the trouble of in person negotiation. Go ahead and email them back with what you want. If they totally balk you can save yourself time. I sent in my counter offer of $52,000 (up from their offer of $36,000), and they responded saying "that range is acceptable taking into account the total compensation in regards to healthcare benefits" So now i'm going to go in and hammer out the details. They are offering basic BCBS PPO and Delta PPO coverage, which looks like they probably spend $250 a month total for both in Northern California, or about $3k per year (correct me if i'm way off.) The minimum salary i'd be willing to except is around $46k, currently i'm making $50 but I would save around $3500 in annual commute costs since the new company is 2 blocks away from my house. They are also offering lunch 3x a week (another 1k or more), and the culture is so much better than my current company (i'd also be working about 5 hrs less each week which is awesome). All those things have a real value, so i'm going to stick with $46k as my absolute minimum and only as a last resort. I meet with them in person early next week.
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Mar 29, 2014 02:23
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Ethanfr0me posted:I sent in my counter offer of $52,000 (up from their offer of $36,000), and they responded saying "that range is acceptable taking into account the total compensation in regards to healthcare benefits" So now i'm going to go in and hammer out the details. They are offering basic BCBS PPO and Delta PPO coverage, which looks like they probably spend $250 a month total for both in Northern California, or about $3k per year (correct me if i'm way off.) The minimum salary i'd be willing to except is around $46k, currently i'm making $50 but I would save around $3500 in annual commute costs since the new company is 2 blocks away from my house. They are also offering lunch 3x a week (another 1k or more), and the culture is so much better than my current company (i'd also be working about 5 hrs less each week which is awesome). All those things have a real value, so i'm going to stick with $46k as my absolute minimum and only as a last resort. I meet with them in person early next week. Good to hear you set a firm point, that they'll work with it, and that you've got your opening and threshold numbers worked out. Stick to your guns, be fair, and be ready to win. Good luck!
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Mar 29, 2014 03:10
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I didn't get the job offer and now I am sad  I guess I'll have to wait until next time before I can put my negotiation tactics to the test.
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Apr 1, 2014 07:06
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Definitely nothing to sneeze at, but if it's your first round with D then you definitely have the option of going back and I don't think you're risking losing the offer unless they've said that it's a final offer. You can say that including cost of living increases, their offer is in-line with competing offers. If they increase by X% they will be a clear winner and you will accept; that's usually a good way to get an extra notch. In other news, Company A ended up filing Chapter 11 bankruptcy a few days ago, after I had declined their offer. I knew their financial situation was problematic, but I didn't anticipate seeing my concerns verified so quickly.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:40
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Good to hear you set a firm point, that they'll work with it, and that you've got your opening and threshold numbers worked out. Stick to your guns, be fair, and be ready to win. Thanks everyone for the help, I went in for the negotiation interview today and I got more than I anticipated! High salary point, no lapse in medical coverage, 2 weeks paid vacay right off the bat, and bonus / profit sharing to boot!
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Apr 2, 2014 01:10
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Whoop! Care to elaborate for the sake of others looking to do this?
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Apr 2, 2014 01:26
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Hand of the King posted:I didn't get the job offer and now I am sad  I too got a recent rejection for a new job. I guess "overqualified" really does exist.
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Apr 2, 2014 01:27
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corkskroo posted:Whoop! Care to elaborate for the sake of others looking to do this? First, I read 60 seconds and you're hired, which is a great book for anyone going to an interview, negotiating, etc. It helped me especially because it shows you how to distill your talking points into a "60 second sell," which is a great method for people (like me) who tend to ramble during the interview process. It basically talks about having 5 key points illustrating your strengths tailored to each job, and when you are asked a question, to use one or all of the points to succinctly answer the question in a memorable way, because honestly, most of what is said in an interview is forgotten by both parties immediately afterwards. http://www.amazon.com/Seconds-Youre-Hired-Robin-Ryan/dp/0143112902 Second, once I was sent an offer letter via email, it was a little lower than I thought, so after getting advice from this thread (and my own friends / associates) I sent in a counter offer. This was based on researching my market salary, my own salary goals (i.e. not making less than I did in my last job) and the fact that I was the best out of ~10 interviewees so it meant that they wanted me pretty badly. I think the biggest problem I had was constantly undervaluing myself. I was so excited to get a new job offer that at first I almost would have accepted anything. After I made the decision that it would be better for myself and the new company to get what I wanted, it was pretty simple. They accepted my counter in totality, it was modest but fair. In all honesty, I could probably have asked for more, but i'm happy with where we stand so it's all good. I also wasn't afraid to keep looking if it didn't work out. In summation: 1. Distill your talking points for the interview, repeat them as much as possible in different ways so they stick. 2. If you aren't satisfied with the initial offer, ask for what you want (don't be afraid!) 3. Getting what you want (or as close to it as possible) is important for both you and the employer. They only want to hire someone for the job once, it's better if everyone is happy. If they won't meet you halfway, don't be afraid to keep looking. Ethanfr0me fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 2, 2014 01:55
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This thread is the best thread.
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Apr 2, 2014 09:28
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Goons helping goons
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Apr 2, 2014 10:25
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Yeah I'm loving this thread and glad to see people are both helpful and getting the help they need. It's making me excited for my next opportunity to negotiate.
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Apr 2, 2014 12:40
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Ethanfr0me posted:First, I read 60 seconds and you're hired, which is a great book for anyone going to an interview, negotiating, etc. It helped me especially because it shows you how to distill your talking points into a "60 second sell," which is a great method for people (like me) who tend to ramble during the interview process. It basically talks about having 5 key points illustrating your strengths tailored to each job, and when you are asked a question, to use one or all of the points to succinctly answer the question in a memorable way, because honestly, most of what is said in an interview is forgotten by both parties immediately afterwards. This is awesome, you are awesome, this thread is awesome. Congratulations!
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Apr 2, 2014 17:13
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I will be graduating from nursing school shortly and entering my first hospital job sometime this summer. Because I have very limited clinical experience (mainly my clinical rotations at the hospital I hope to be employed by), I fully expect to be offered close to the very bottom of the pay scale. I do have one point of negotiation leverage and I would like some feedback on how to play it. The unit I would like to work on is considered an entry level unit and many people who are hired onto that unit leave after they get one year of experience so that they can transfer to their preferred unit (which usually don't hire inexperienced new grads). The average cost to train a new nurse is in the ballpark of $60-80K. I happen to like the fast pace and patient diversity of this unit and plan on sticking around for quite some time, but I also know that if I get hired at the bottom of the pay scale that my market worth is going to quickly outpace my salary, as a nurse with 3-5 years experience gets paid quite a bit more than a nurse with no experience. My question is how should I phrase that starting me at a higher rate than they usually start new grads would be mutually beneficial? I won't leave the unit/hospital if I'm making market value, which saves the unit/hospital from the costs of training a new nurse, the hassle of the hiring process in general, and keeps my experience and expertise on that unit. My concern is that if I bring up market value, it'll lead to the conversation that the best way to get your market value is to jump ship and then I'll be tagged as someone with one foot out the door if I don't get the pay bump before I've even finished the interview. The other thing going for me is that I am well liked by a majority of the nursing staff on this unit and they have highly recommended me to the unit manager.
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Apr 6, 2014 16:05
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Epic Doctor Fetus posted:I will be graduating from nursing school shortly and entering my first hospital job sometime this summer. Because I have very limited clinical experience (mainly my clinical rotations at the hospital I hope to be employed by), I fully expect to be offered close to the very bottom of the pay scale. I do have one point of negotiation leverage and I would like some feedback on how to play it. The unit I would like to work on is considered an entry level unit and many people who are hired onto that unit leave after they get one year of experience so that they can transfer to their preferred unit (which usually don't hire inexperienced new grads). The average cost to train a new nurse is in the ballpark of $60-80K. I happen to like the fast pace and patient diversity of this unit and plan on sticking around for quite some time, but I also know that if I get hired at the bottom of the pay scale that my market worth is going to quickly outpace my salary, as a nurse with 3-5 years experience gets paid quite a bit more than a nurse with no experience. There was some talk of BATNAs (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement) in this thread. Your BATNA is truly awful--you're unemployed and every month you're without a job makes you less likely to find one. But it gets worse, you'll also have a strike against you, because everyone will wonder why the hospital where you have connections refused to hire you. Their BATNA is strong--they hire another unproven nurse just like you. Given your lack of clinical experience, I'd just tell them what they wanted to hear, i.e. "I'm excited for the opportunity!" and build some experience. If the offer is significantly lower than what your friends are offered, you can make a counter, but I'd suspect the entry level nursing positions are treated as a commodity and as a way for the hospital to find good nurses for other units. This reply is already getting long, but I figure it warrants an example. There's a particular office at my workplace where all the new hires go to start. If they prove competent and get along with everyone, they get a fairly large raise and a transfer to a different office. Otherwise they get let go. If a new hire said they wanted to work long term in that situation, I'd think there was something wrong with them and they were desperate. Also, everyone who gets hired into that office gets an offer. We don't lowball them, but we have 20 or 30 talented applicants for every position, so we don't bother dealing with negotiations and counteroffers. We'd actually improve productivity in the short term by getting rid of that whole office, but that would be cannibalizing our future.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:14
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I had a feeling this was the situation. I guess the game plan will be to get a couple years of experience under my belt, shop myself around to other hospitals in the area, and then renegotiate with my improved BATNA position. Thanks for the input.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:31
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In something like nursing, you're always going to be in a fairly rigid bracket based on your experience and qualification, so don't worry too much about it.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:32
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I'm about to interview for a job where it says on the app: "The hiring salary for this position will begin at $38,000 and is negotiable and commensurate with skills and experience." I currently make $30,000. This job is a public sector job, so I am actually able to look at the salaries of everyone else working there. There is one person getting paid $38,000, and the rest are making about $45,000. I meet most of the "preferred qualifications" but I would be the only person there without an MS degree. I have two years of experience in the field and speak two foreign languages (relevant for this position). I'd be super excited if I actually started at $45,000, but it seems like a stretch. The job is in downtown Denver and the cost of living in higher than where I live now, so the number I'd really like is $42,000. Should I highball an initial number? Like if I follow the advice in the thread and let them throw out the first number, and they say, "Since you're new we will start you at $38,000," should I counter with like $48,000, or would $45,000 be more appropriate? I think after I have completed the interview I'll have a better picture of how valuable I might be to them, but I'm trying to get prepped for negotiation now so that I don't gently caress it up and kill my potential earnings.
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Apr 11, 2014 16:58
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The advice I stick to is to start with a high, but defendable number. In this case you can point to their own salary data to say 'i think I have experience / extra qualifications like these people, pay me that' even if you don't have 100% of what they have. Hard to justify much higher than that based on what you've written down. You also have a clearly defined floor at $42,000 which is good. If they don't hit it you can make the legitimate threat to walk, although hopefully not an issue.
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Apr 11, 2014 17:14
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Not as experienced in negotiating as others, but I've always been told that you counter with a number higher than the number you would actually settle for as they will either accept that (thus giving you more than you anticipated) or they will be closer to the number you actually want. I felt the same as you did, and Dwight and a few others in this thread set me straight: you've done your research, you know what you're worth even without all of the qualifications, so don't settle for less than what you want. The fact you're bilingual gives you a good advantage too. A lot of people underestimate how advantageous it is to be able to speak a second language, which can give you even more of an edge depending on the language.
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Apr 11, 2014 19:46
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systran posted:I'm about to interview for a job where it says on the app: Public sector jobs usually have a pay range/pay band associated with them, much like the Federal Government's GS system. You want to familiarize yourself with them so you know where you can negotiate. Without knowing specifics, I'll give a general example and associated advice. [url= http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/671/documents/Pay/PayRanges&JobTitles.pdf] Here[/url] is the City of Denver's Pay Ranges and Job titles doc. Say the job you're applying for is assigned pay grade 614, sal plan A, which starts at 38,174 and maxes out at 55,734. Everything goes well and they make you an offer at the 2nd quartile, 42.5K, you could try to negotiate to the mid range or a little higher by pointing out your qualifications and experience. As long as your request is reasonable and in the pay band, they should go for it if they want you bad enough. Do negotiate though, unless you get promoted, public sector work doesn't have many opportunities to increase your pay outside of the regular annual salary adjustments, if you're lucky enough to get that. Your starting pay at this job will have compound ramifications on your retirement accounts, future earnings, etc. Vacation/Paid Time Off may be negotiable as well. I know where I am they instituted a policy of giving new hires credit for years of private sector work towards vacation and sick time accrual. They can't attract good talent with only offering 8 days off a year to start or whatever the number is.
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Apr 11, 2014 21:35
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I just got an offer from a company I really like! I've never negotiated before, and it's a small startup with less than 10 employees. I'm 100% sure this company's gonna stick around for the next few years, based on how the last two years went. I've never had a non-hourly job and I'm not sure if I should even negotiate, being that they're so small. They're offering $42,000, which is actually more than I anticipated, but they're not offering insurance. Do you think it'd be rude to counter with 48,000 using that as a reason? Again, I'm super inexperienced when it comes to this stuff, and don't wanna miss out just cause I'm being polite. Edit: I also live in LA, if that gives anyone a monetary frame of reference.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:14
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What are you doing? Are you a receptionist or a programmer? That will make a big difference.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:35
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Spermy Smurf posted:What are you doing? Entry level Game Designer - so somewhere in the between, I think. Upon research the average salary for that position is $50,000 at a AAA company and about $45,000 or less at an indie company, so looks like either way I could stand to ask for a bit more. Just not sure how much. Lieutenant Dan fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 15:58
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Lieutenant Dan posted:Entry level Game Designer - so somewhere in the between, I think. What you ask for is ultimately up to you but you've done he right research. I'd ultimately start by asking something above the median for small cos, with your floor at the median, but if you like he company and ultimately are just trying to get experience you might take lower than that and then re-evaluate once you're no longer in that tough bucket of having little to no experience. Don't be defensive, just stick to the facts. Something like "thank you for your offer and I'm excited to work with you, although based on my research, a market salary for this position would be [your high end], particularly considering that I will need to purchase my own health insurance. Could you also please provide additional details on [pto and other benefits they might not have clarified]?" As has been said above, your BATNA is not that strong as a green employee so keep in mind that the answer may simply be 'no' and decide in advance whether you're OK with that.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:01
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If it's a startup with less than 10 people, are you in a position to demand some equity? It won't be much most likely since you're entry level, but it's something you can put on the table if they can't go much higher on salary. Might be more useful to you than paid time off if you think this company has a real shot of sticking around.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:53
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