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I've been involved in salary negotiations on both sides of the table and here are some thoughts: Your negotiating strength is dependent on your alternatives, or specifically on your BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Alternative). In your case, you stated that you're reasonably comfortable with your current position and expect your current employer to counter-offer (this is your BATNA), so you have literally no reason to feel pressured by the other company. You didn't mention how senior the position you're applying for is but I'm guessing a bit above entry-level. You have some leverage here but if it's not for a "lead" or other specialist role of some sort frankly there's a large pool of software engineers out there who could essentially do the same job, regardless of whether there's a regional shortage. $10K covers moving costs so it's not that big a barrier and can be amortized over the life of an employee. The takeaway is don't over-play your hand. You didn't describe the culture of the company you're applying to. If it's a behemoth like (say) IBM, you will have a much harder time dicking around and their interviewers will be much better trained. If it's a small outfit you're much more likely to be dealing with someone who spends 2% of their time on stuff like this and isn't necessarily well versed. The answer to this question will determine how aggressive you are in your positioning. I would do this (on the assumption that you have roughly a medium level of negotiating leverage vs. a relatively untrained negotiator): On your own, write down a continuum of what your current salary is, absolute minimum increase to switch, what you think your current employer might re-raise to, and what your dream salary would be, with reference to glassdoor or another service. It's fine if the services over-estimate as you're going to be setting a goalpost, but just make sure the number you're looking for is realistic for the size of the company. If, hypothetically, you were applying to an indie game developer their capacity to pay would be much lower, regardless of capability, than an established company although you could possibly get non-cash comp like revenue sharing or equity. If they've explicitly asked you for a salary you can't ignore the question without seeming disingenuous, but you can say no, and lying is a terrible idea as well as there are lots of ways to find this out. You have the option of fishing for an offer from them, but this has a risk of "anchoring" the discussion around a number that you're uncomfortable with in the event they low-ball you. I would probably prefer to tell them your salary expectations phrased something like "I'm interested in your position but don't think my current salary reflects the benefit I would bring to your organization. I'd be prepared to consider an offer from you at [your dream number]." If you're lucky, they will be under-informed and will take your offer. Rather than being disappointed that you low-balled yourself, you should be thrilled as you're making your dream salary! If you're unlucky, they will take some time to reflect, look at the same sources you looked at, and come back to you with a number somewhere in the fair range. At this point, you need to read their tone to decide whether there's additional room or if this is a firm and final number. If you're really unlucky, they'll be flabbergasted by the amount you asked for and try to put it back on you to undercut your own offer. DON'T EVER DO THIS. You've already determined what the bar is for an acceptable number - if this is their reaction, they need to prove to you that they can jump over it before you spend more time on them. If they try this tactic, politely but firmly decline to re-bid yourself, and if it continues, be willing to end the discussion and walk away. If they like you anyways, they will suck it up and come back with a proposal that they can work with. If not, you were never going to get to where you'd be happy and they're probably shitheads. In terms of the decision, it's then pretty easy - if the number you get is above your floor but below what you think your employer will re-raise, go back to your employer and see what they do. If they don't re-raise, you can still accept. If they do up, you can go back to the company you're applying to and see if they're willing to step up. If not, stay where you're at (subject to social issues). Keep in mind that you can really only pull this trick once at any given company (within a reasonable amount of time) so make sure it's worthwhile and that you're really going to be happy staying there another several years. If the final offer is below your minimum acceptable increase, gently caress'em and keep looking. Hope that's helpful. e: cleaned up, highlighted, clarified Kalenn Istarion fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 02:06
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johnny sack posted:Bring in copies of them but use a big Sharpie over most of the significant digits. Like, if your W-2 says you earned 45,000 for the year, cover over the 45 portion and tell them that your accountant advises you not to share that information. Do the same for the taxes portion, so they can't easily derive your income. Just tell them you thought they wanted to verify employment history and leave it at that. Personally I would avoid this as it just begs the obvious and awkward question of what the number is. Personally I'd just say that they can verify your employment history as part of their background check once they've made the decision to hire you, and that you don't think it's appropriate to share personal documents of that sort. Alternatively you can say you're subject to confidentiality obligations to your former (current) employer in respect of compensation, which is often true, and can't share on that basis. I posted earlier in the thread about how best to position yourself in this sort of discussion.
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Feb 11, 2014 05:55
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spwrozek posted:This is somewhat true though if you stay at the same company for a long time. If you do a bad job negotiating and make 5-10k less than another guy at the same position it will be very hard to catch up with similar performance. The short answer for how to fix this is to be willing to leave. Do your research, come up with a position based on evidence (internal or external salary references and/or job offer) and present it to your manager. If they aren't willing to adjust, it's time to get out of there. A company that isn't willing to pay you fair value for your time isn't a company worth working for. Details of how to position this discussion are similar to negotiating for salary at a new position, but you need to take into account the rapport you have with your current company. If it's good, you can position the discussion as collaborative.
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Feb 15, 2014 06:40
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Zarin posted:Yeah, my buddy is in Purchasing, and we've had some long sit-down conversations about what he does, strategies, BATNA, etc. It's all very, very interesting. Put zero in for salary. They probably won't filter for it, it's used solely for negotiating later.
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Feb 16, 2014 10:27
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Zarin posted:You think $0 would be more correct than "Private"? Ah, I thought from what you said it was validating for numbers. Private is fine if not.
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Feb 17, 2014 07:40
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Spikes32 posted:So turns out I had no bargaining power because they are only hiring at one salary. Oh well, that just means at the six month mark I'm either going to get a raise or really look for another job (not that I won't start again at the 4 month mark anyway). Interestingly the HR lady informed me that for contract positions like this they don't draw up the job offer letter until there has been verbal acceptance. Is this normal? Your leverage for this sort of short-term contract job is pretty low, so the outcome is not particularly surprising. Many firms will look to you to verbally commit because it creates a moral obligation to swallow the written terms of the offer. If you want to take the job I would suggest you say that you are happy to accept subject to there being no onerous or unusual terms in the written offer. This leaves you the option of backing out if they've misrepresented or failed to mention anything. As a general comment, you should in the future consider carefully how much detail you provide about whatever personal situation caused your job performance to suffer. You're perfectly in your rights to say 'I was dealing with some personal issues at the time which impacted my job performance. I've moved past those issues now and am prepared to fully commit my skills to a new position.' And leave it at that. If they push, you need to think hard about what kind of company is pushing for personal and potentially discriminatory information about your personal life. Also, If your prior employer is going to poo poo on you there's literally no reason to use them as a reference and if they are called on an unsolicited basis and provide negative feedback that isn't strictly factually based they can actually be legally exposed. If this is the case you should actually consider requesting that they provide only factual information such as confirmation of dates of employment etc.
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Feb 28, 2014 21:38
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Would never suggest you lie and vein up front about why you left is the best tactic by far. Glad to hear she's a good reference, wasn't clear from your post that it was the case. Good luck in the new job!
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Feb 28, 2014 22:31
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Evil SpongeBob posted:I'd love to hear stories or advice on negotiating benefits as opposed to salary. Like relocation, hiring bonus, etc. Assign a number to everything: what's it worth to you, and what do you think it's worth to your potential employer. That's what they're doing. It all comes down to total cost of employment from their perspective and they'll probably amortize any signing bonus over your expected term in job (or total employment period) if they're worth anything. Health benefits are worth to you what your actual expected costs are, or the cost of desired coverage. If their coverage doesn't match up to what you want, ask for increased salary to allow for you to buy supplemental coverage to make up the difference. The post above has a few good thoughts on vacation - if you want 3 weeks and they give you two, make it up with an extra week of pay. Relocation and signing bonus are sort of in the same bucket - they're a payment to you to reduce your risk of transition. As I mentioned above, this bakes into your total comp / cost calc so if you're getting a really exceptional pay package you might need to be willing to give on this (and vice versa). Key to negotiating all these pieces successfully is to treat everything as a package deal. Don't let the company get you pinned down on pay before you know what the benefits package is like, for example. This allows you to use the tactic I noted above where you trade off increases in one area of total comp for unwillingness or inability to increase in other areas. If you get settled on pay before you know benefits, you lose a lot of the leverage that you might otherwise have.
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Mar 5, 2014 07:47
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Sounds like they're just trying to anchor to your current pay. Just tell them to make you an offer. It's up to you to decide once they've offered it whether it's sufficient. I don't live in the states but from discussion here and elsewhere I understand it to be fully in your rights to say no to giving them a W2.
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Mar 7, 2014 00:54
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Zarin posted:Cross-postin' a bit from the Accounting thread, but is tangential to this thread as well: I don't know accounting salaries that well, but if you've done your research and are confident in the salary range then stick to it, particularly since you're already in a job that pays nearly as well. A lot of places will market jobs that are essentially book-keeping or data entry as accounting so you need to be really careful about what they're asking you to do. Have you considered going to CPA route? You need to spend some lovely years getting your letters but once you have it your options open up considerably and the salary range goes up noticeably as well.
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Mar 7, 2014 03:59
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One of these was a fluffed-up payables/receivables position, so I don't really count that one. But one was a full-on Accounting position, and another was a Revenue Analyst position (which is pretty close to accounting, kinda).
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Why not talk to HR at your current shop to see if there are any spots open to make the move?
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Mar 7, 2014 05:25
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Beast of Bourbon posted:I have a phone interview for a position on Wednesday, and my friend who works there briefed me. It's a small company, and he said they're going to ask me straight up what my salary requirements are, as they did to him. It's not with HR, it's with the head of the department who would be my boss. Apparently they just want to know what you expect to make. This is also pretty close to a 'dream job' for me. I would consider even taking a pay cut for this job, it's closer to home, they have catered lunch and dinner, subsidize public transportation, etc etc. They even do a 401k and in my industry that's actually kind of rare. Also stock options! My current job has no 401k, no stock, and is an hour commute. If they're generous on benefits they usually won't be lovely on pay, although it is possible. I would take your target salary (not your minimum acceptable salary), add 10 or 15% and start there. You never know, they might shoot for the high end of the market for a reason. If they're smart, they will apply the value of their off-market benefits to your total comp calculation in their counter-offer so you need to figure out what that stuff (plus the dream job value) is worth to you to derive your minimum acceptable total comp: - what's daily lunch and dinner cost for you * 260 - fuel savings from shorter commute or value of transit subsidy if you take transit - tax benefits of 401k and any employer matching Add all that to the salary they give you in their counter-offer and compare that number to what you're getting paid now and what an external source says salaries in your industry are.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:02
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To Vex a Stranger posted:So I have a verbal offer from a large company, which I received yesterday, and an email from them with "offer Components". It's a consulting firm that deals mostly with Microsoft technologies. I referred a friend to this company by way of a recruiter who had emailed me about the same position 9 months ago (at the time I wasn't interested in moving.) Doesn't hurt to wait for the second offer to see what kind of options that gives you. If it's better pay you have the option of accepting or using it to lever better pay out of the first firm. If it's not better pay, you still have the option of telling them you have a competitive offer and getting something in your initial target range would seal the deal.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:32
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Korovyev posted:Hi all--I'm in the middle of a weird situation with a job offer of sorts. First, don't say 'this is what I want but I'm flexible'. You're basically asking them to underbid you. Be firm. 'My expectation for this job is X'. Don't qualify it or waffle, while it's often better to get a bid from the employer first this gives you the opportunity to try to set an anchor on the negotiations. Assuming they want you enough, they'll feel pressure about going too far below your opening number. You do still have the option of not responding with a number but unless you're very sure of your position this starts to look cagey and could hurt your position. If you feel like you need to make the opening offer, start with the highest not-crazy number you can think of. One way might be to take your buddy's number, add 5% per year for generous inflation then add another 10 or 20% depending on how good a negotiator you think he was. This would give you something in the $55-$65k range and per your comment is around what you make now in cash comp. If you have more favourable benchmarks then use those instead.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:03
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swenblack posted:I hate to say it, but you completely screwed up. There is now a 0% chance you will get a offer above $55k. Before you said $55k, there was a chance. Also, if they weren't willing to pay you $55k, telling them your salary expectation wouldn't make them magically increase their offer. You effectively put a cap on their offer without asking them to increase what they were willing to offer you. While you're right that it caps the discussion, it also has the effect of pulling the discussion upwards in a situation where you think you're going to get offered below your target. Not a screw up to put a stake in the ground when you've already tried to get a bid and the employer turns it around on you. Unless you have an extremely strong position you don't gain by again telling them no, especially if it's a job you want and want to keep things moving forward. Based on his description, his $55k is safely above what he might expect them to offer and is also well above what he'd be happy making.
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Mar 14, 2014 03:12
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Fiedler posted:I appreciate your thoughts. Would you recommend that, in the event that Company D doesn't offer, I simply accept whichever of B and C makes the highest offer? Or, alternately, counter them both with a request for a base salary equal, say, to my current salary + 50%? Nice that you have a bunch of competing offers. I think you're going to be best served by taking the time to see Company D, at which point you'll hopefully have additional ammo to either re-up with B or C (or just take D). As someone else said though, unless you're a particularly rare commodity (maybe you are idk), you're not going to be well served by trying to create an auction. The companies are going to figure out that you're shopping their offers and you could risk losing one or more of them. I think you need to try to limit it to one additional round with each company (tell them to make their best and final proposal) and then pick your best all-round deal. Agree that any consideration of D should incorporate an explicit adjustment for cost of living.
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Mar 14, 2014 03:19
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swenblack posted:We're going to have to disagree. Korovyev did two things by stating his expectation. First, he prevented the company from throwing out a lowball offer, which may have saved them some time and effort. Second, he capped the negotiations at $55k. Neither of these effects actually increased the budget available for the position. If $55k is less than the budget available, and Korovyev does well at the interviews, he'll get an offer of $55k. If the budget is less and he does well, he'll get a counter-offer less than $55k. However, if he hadn't made his expectations known, he'd simply get an offer, which he could then evaluate and attempt to negotiate higher. Did you miss the post where he described that he had already gone back to them with a 'make me an offer' comment and they've now stated twice that he needs to provide some sense of expectations? Your points are all valid for an opening discussion but at some point you need to be willing to put a stake in the ground if you want to move things forward. You run a serious risk of the company just telling you to gently caress off by trying to be too cute. If you're indifferent to who you work for then you can play it tougher but be prepared to lose the offer. In this case it was pretty clear that he viewed the job as a significant upgrade even with a salary cut, so would probably be disappointed by losing the offer through playing it too tough.
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Mar 14, 2014 14:57
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swenblack posted:Nope, I didn't miss the point. This isn't an Austin Powers movie where you have to answer if they ask you three times. If $55k was an actual assessment of how much his skills were worth on the open market, I wouldn't have a problem with discussing salary expectations. Instead it's based on what a friend (who may have been lowballed) says he made 5 years ago. Given that he currently makes more money with better benefits in the current job market, I'd guess that stating his expectations as being $55k is lowballing himself. It isn't a movie, and based on my experience hiring people over many years, anyone that tried to turn and turn about too long would soon find their offer was no longer an offer. At some point your acceptable salary needs to be based on what you'll be happy with and on the information at hand; waiting for a magic number isn't always practical.
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Mar 15, 2014 21:34
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Yeah, if they're offering you a job they're already acknowledging you're worth at least the bottom of the band, no reason you shouldn't shoot for the top.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:59
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Halloween Jack posted:Oh, that reminds me: another wrinkle is that while I'm not sure, it seems likely to me that the HR personnel of the dept. to which I'm applying will already know what I'm currently making. Assuming that's true, how should it affect my interviewing strategy? Why would they know, do you already work there?
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Mar 18, 2014 00:39
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Halloween Jack posted:Yes, I'm in one department and looking at opportunities in other departments throughout the university. Odds are they have your current pay then, so it may have some downward pressure if you're moving to a job with a band near your current one. If you're moving to a new field or something and have new education / skills added to the mix then you have a better case for it not to be a factor.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:57
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Yeah, ultimately the person who will know the pay-offs for a job best is the person applying for it. You could quantify the long-term benefits in a present value calc but there is a soft point where you need to just make a call. I'm currently considering a career change myself and in most cases from where I am it's a similar path - a short-term haircut (potentially significant) in trade for longer-term significant gains. E: I are gud at gramr
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Mar 19, 2014 09:40
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Echoing comments above, don't tell them to go away, and don't just take it. Doesn't hurt to go back with your last number and tell them they need to come up for you to consider it. Be factual, but don't be afraid to comment on how far off your mark they are. If they don't move then it tells you something about the company. Ultimately you need to decide what you're comfortable with but this sounds like it's below your minimum.
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Mar 20, 2014 22:44
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Korovyev posted:Thank you all for your help. They don't give a poo poo about your wedding. You can be factual about hurdles you are facing and they need to pay you to overcome, and you can endeavour to make them feel bad about missing / ignoring your initial target. Here's an alternative: Dear XXX, Thank you for the offer. I'm pleased that you'd like me to come work at [company], although I was surprised and disappointed to see the proposed salary offer of $45,000, well below what I indicated I would consider a fair salary for this position. Given my need to relocate and [some other factual things that make the position cost you money / more difficult], I would need to see an improved offer before I would be able to accept. A few other questions I had include: [Some of the stuff spwrozek mentioned are good things to ask] I look forward to the opportunity to work at [company] and to a counter-proposal which addresses the points I've outlined above. Regards, [You] ---------------- That's worded more strongly than your note in light of them being below your floor. If they don't hit 50 you've been very clear about walking away. If you are NOT going to walk in the event they don't increase, then consider softening some of the wording.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:27
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Sounds like a good outcome - 4 weeks of PTO is pretty nice! Enjoy the new job.
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Mar 22, 2014 02:09
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Yep, good job sticking to your guns. I like your edits to my prompt. Your base hit your minimum and with the bonus your hitting your outside goalpost so sounds like a great outcome. 
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Mar 22, 2014 21:08
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Xandu posted:Is it standard to negotiate like that via email? I'd feel weird not doing it over the phone, but I guess it makes sense to keep everything in writing. It would depend on your relationship with the person you're negotiating with. A phone conversation can be better in some ways as it allows you to read tone of voice, but there will be some pressure to provide immediate responses which reduces your ability to consider your position. The advantage of email is that it is more natural for there to be breaks for each party to consider things. Personally, I'd keep the factual / specific negotiations to email and then make a call to accept (with a follow-up mail) once the terms are right.
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Mar 23, 2014 04:42
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There's literally no reason not to ask for more. If that's their opening number it's because they EXPECT you to try to pull it higher and they want to have a base to negotiate off of. Wouldn't be crazy for them to be willing to go to $90k+. 10-15% 'room' is fairly standard on an opening offer. Have you looked at external sources? They might provide you with a benchmark for the position - any evidence you can provide to support a higher number helps your case. If you're looking at a salary website, try being more and less selective on the salary comparison criteria (programmers vs say AI programmers with experience coding Skynet in QBASIC). You can be selective in your data so long as your selection is reasonably justifiable.
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Mar 24, 2014 20:44
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Shoot for the top then! Obviously they like something about you. Hopefully you have a sense of what that was from the interview and follow-up convo. Try to focus on that and consider using some of the language from Korovyev's response above to be firm in what you want while staying positive and friendly. You'll need to change the angle a bit as they're not missing a target you have them but rather paying 'below your expectations for the job based on public an industry references' or something like that. As in Korovyev's message, include all your questions about the soft items as well as the comp package should be negotiated and clarified as a whole rather than piecemeal.
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Mar 24, 2014 21:26
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Congrats - a good outcome regardless of no bump. Doubling your pay in 4 years is a good outcome. Enjoy the new job!
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Mar 25, 2014 03:11
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It's a lot easier to negotiate when you've got an alternative (called a BATNA or best alternative to a negotiated agreement). Right now your alternative to a negotiated raise is quitting. Your best tactic is to go out and look for something else before your review discussion. If that's not possible then you have to fall back on trying to use the statistics to argue your case. If they like you, then you have a bit of leverage, but the minute they push back, without that BATNA you aren't going to be able to defend your position well.
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Mar 27, 2014 15:58
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Fiedler posted:It's me again. Here's where things stand: Definitely nothing to sneeze at, but if it's your first round with D then you definitely have the option of going back and I don't think you're risking losing the offer unless they've said that it's a final offer. You can say that including cost of living increases, their offer is in-line with competing offers. If they increase by X% they will be a clear winner and you will accept; that's usually a good way to get an extra notch. Ethanfr0me posted:Should I wait until the interview to fire back a counteroffer or send an email along the lines of "with my experience / talents I would expect to be in the $50-60k range, I'd like to get a better understanding of the overall compensation at our meeting, confident that we can reach an agreement, etc." Echoing the last few posts, you need to be friendly but firm. Don't go into that meeting without giving them a target to shoot for. Don't start at the middle of the range for your area, start at the top and let them pull you down. If the number is (say) $60k, start there and if they go below that it gives you leverage to get the soft increases like PTO etc. Use the prompt letters from a few pages back for the kind of wording to consider using, and as a reminder, include all the terms in the letter - package deal, not itemized. That way when they get you in a room and try to gang up on you hopefully you're close to an acceptable deal. Btw, if you want some ammo to support higher numbers, consider taking their starting pay, applying your years of experience to the raise percentage and starting pay they quoted so 36,000 X 1.1^5.5 or ~$60,000. This calc shouldn't be in your response, keep it in your pocket for when they try to come back at you in the final negotiation.
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Mar 28, 2014 08:01
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Ethanfr0me posted:Since I have a negotiation interview scheduled, should I wait until then to fire back or email them a counter offer? I've heard that it might be easier to gauge their reaction / negotiate in person rather than start the conversation via email when the purpose of the forthcoming interview is to discuss salary. If you don't reply back in advance, you will only be able to negotiate up from their 'anchor' (the initial number they threw out) in person and of they are pressuring you this could be difficult. You would be much better served by responding with a letter to communicate your expectations on what a package would look like. I'll write a prompt response here with square brackets as this to fill in. You can of course change whatever you want: Dear [hiring manager], Thank you for your offer. I enjoyed my interview with [you and your team] and I'm interested in the opportunity but would like to clarify a few points in advance of our meeting on [date]. The points I would like to raise are as follows: 1. Salary: as you noted, $36,000 would not be an attractive starting place based on my experience. My expectation for a salary offer for this position would be [$X where x is determined as noted in the posts above] 2. PTO: given my experience, I would want to have two weeks paid leave per year immediately, rather than over time. 3. [Any other points you want to counter and/or clarify from their offer. Remember, you lose most of your negotiating leverage once you accept a a salary so of you forget to mention health benefits or whatever you will likely need to take what they give you] I look forward to hearing your response on these points and to the opportunity to work at [company]. Regards, [You] --------------------- Again, it's really important you don't go into that meeting without having made a counter offer. Among other things, if you try to counter with a number they weren't expecting, they will have to jump the mental hurdles to paying you that while you're sitting there and may not make it. Providing them your expectation in advance gives them time to consider the idea and also gives you a position to negotiate from that you aren't introducing in the meeting. Ideally, you will get a counter offer that is very close to what you want in advance of the meeting, and you should consider asking for one. Your face to face negotiations will go much better should you be relatively close and just be hammering out the short strokes in person.
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Mar 28, 2014 17:56
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Goons helping goons
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Apr 2, 2014 10:25
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The advice I stick to is to start with a high, but defendable number. In this case you can point to their own salary data to say 'i think I have experience / extra qualifications like these people, pay me that' even if you don't have 100% of what they have. Hard to justify much higher than that based on what you've written down. You also have a clearly defined floor at $42,000 which is good. If they don't hit it you can make the legitimate threat to walk, although hopefully not an issue.
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Apr 11, 2014 17:14
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Lieutenant Dan posted:Entry level Game Designer - so somewhere in the between, I think. What you ask for is ultimately up to you but you've done he right research. I'd ultimately start by asking something above the median for small cos, with your floor at the median, but if you like he company and ultimately are just trying to get experience you might take lower than that and then re-evaluate once you're no longer in that tough bucket of having little to no experience. Don't be defensive, just stick to the facts. Something like "thank you for your offer and I'm excited to work with you, although based on my research, a market salary for this position would be [your high end], particularly considering that I will need to purchase my own health insurance. Could you also please provide additional details on [pto and other benefits they might not have clarified]?" As has been said above, your BATNA is not that strong as a green employee so keep in mind that the answer may simply be 'no' and decide in advance whether you're OK with that.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:01
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Supplanter posted:To tell the truth I thought I was just negotiating the $46k part, but when it came time to sign the papers it said 'your rate of pay for this position will be 46k,(comma theirs) including benefits. Your benefits will include...' which sounds like I'm getting $46k as well as benefits. However I have been reading more of the documents I was sent and I'm just noticing they say that to clarify $46k including benefits with the company's contribution to be paid by the employee... which is definitely bad news for me. On my initial reading I must have thought it was talking about MY contributions, which I already knew I was going to make. Your CPP and EI will always be deducted from your pay, unless you're saying they're deducting two separate CPP and EI amounts? The former is normal, the latter is very weird. The benefits thing could I guess be negotiated that way, but it's unusual and not clear. Can you provide a numerical example of what a detailed pay stub looks like? (Base pay, deductions, net, etc.). I'm Canadian and would have a good idea of what each item should be. It sounds to me more like they gave you a lovely, duplicitous, contract. You have every right to go back and tell them what you understood to be negotiating (46,000 of base pay). They'll most likely tell you tough luck, particularly if the contract was clear on this. If you want more ammo, go find an alternate job, and have that in your back pocket when you go in to discuss.
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Apr 17, 2014 03:43
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Supplanter posted:Yes, CPP and EI are essentially deducted twice, although this deduction would only show up once on my pay stub as my salary is listed as being ~$41k. Hell, I wouldn't even mind paying all my medical (my only other benefit) if I only had to pay CPP and EI once. Yeah, that sounds like they were trying to screw you around as it's a pretty uncommon way to discuss compensation and you're probably not the first one taken in by it. Depending on the tone and if your discussions don't work out you could consider taking it to your provincial labour board if you don't have a job alternative. Personally I'd find something else to do somewhere else as they don't sound like a great place to work.
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Apr 17, 2014 04:10
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Yeah if it's an honest to god fuckup then hopefully your boss will be happy to correct. If he doesn't though am you shouldn't be afraid to escalate it as it's a pretty lovely deal for you.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:54
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Supplanter posted:To update my situation - they're removing the CPP & EI double payments and making it retroactive, so I should be getting my back-pay. Hooray! Great to hear! Does that mean you'll be getting the $46,000 salary going forward? corkskroo posted:This is exactly right. Even if you don't get the open manager role at your current job you'll be able to put all those skills on your resume so you can interview for it somewhere else. Yeah, sounds like your GM basically have you a pass to negotiate for more money, and if you can get yourself an improved title / job description it will give you some good ammo to either take the job permanently or find a new one elsewhere at the increased seniority level.
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Apr 25, 2014 08:50
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