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Also don't feel bad about negotiating. This is a hard one to internalize. But this is your life, not theirs. After they've stated the offer, thank them for the opportunity, tell them that you're really excited that they want you to be a part of their team, and then make the case for what you want confidently. Obviously you can't expect to get everything you want, but go for it.That might include non-salary benefits. I had a job offer once where the salary actually came in way above what I was expecting to hear and even above what my opening counter was going to be. Knowing that this was definitely as high as it was ever going to get and that there was no room (or frankly, even burning need) to go higher I talked about how excited I was that they wanted me... and then I dug into the non-salary benefits I wanted but that I didn't expect to get. And I got almost all of it. Not NEEDING to leave your current job puts you in a good spot to negotiate!
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Jan 18, 2014 15:27
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...although you should approach it like it's not an emotional thing for you either. Just business. And you should think of it as good business for both sides because if they meet you on your terms or as close to them as you can all agree then they will get a better employee out of it.
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Feb 14, 2014 00:21
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There's a massively informative resume thread that also covers cover letters. You'll be in good hands there.
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Feb 16, 2014 02:44
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Mutar posted:WORKPLACE came over with an offer that is salarywise 2k above what I grossed on my w2 last year, with better vacation, worse sick time, better 401k match % but a 5 year vesting scheme on it, and I'm trying to figure out what to counter with. I can see on my paystubs how much of my total pay with CONTRACTINGFIRM is coming from the 26 weeks of oncall, and it amounts to ~15% of my current pay. Given the extended oncall, travel would it be crazy of me to request OFFER+19%? Your workplace might have no idea what you make. Your agency probably takes double your rate hourly. So I'd I'd say you have room to negotiate. Do you know what the salary range is for the position? Is 19% solidly within it? That's a high number but you can always meet somewhere lower. Also is this a place where you'd like to build a career? Going from contractor to full-time has long-term benefits if you're so inclined.
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Feb 27, 2014 20:13
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Spikes32 posted:I have a question regarding a position I was just offered and the offer I was given. I'm in San Diego and have a year and a half's experience post college working in the pharmaceutical industry as a contract worker in a temp position. Back at the end of September my contract was not renewed due to some major personal issues affecting my work performance since the start of August. A note for my pride, things were improving by the beginning of September, but not enough. I've been looking for work since then, and today got an offer for an extremely similar position that is also contract. Main downside being that they offered it to me at ~80% of my last position. However with the additional overtime this job would entail (12 hr shifts, I'd still be working ~40 hrs/wk), the take home pay is pretty similar, less by about $40/wk. Given that I had to explain the bare bones of what happened in my last position during the hiring interview (one of my references was my last boss, yes I know), do I have much position to negotiate? If so how would I go about it? I'm familiar with all the techniques and equipment this position entails. Also, the contract is for six months, at which point they could choose to renew it. In addition some of these positions they're hiring for will be converted to FTE, which would also give me another possibility for renegotiation. What should I do goons? Sounds like a lucky break. Not sure how much bargaining power you have but you could try for a little more. If you get in there and like it, kill it for 6 months and turn into something more long term. corkskroo fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 20:17
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Mutar posted:Keep in mind I am currently an FTE for contractingfirm, with (eh, decent?) insurance/bennies/pay. I would like to stick around here long term, its just a strange thought for an IT worker to not jump every couple years so the slow vesting makes me a bit more nervous. Predetermined grade ranges are funny like that. Sometimes you can use them to your advantage and sometimes you get screwed. I've had both experiences and luckily I'm currently having one of the good ones. Good luck to you!
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Mar 1, 2014 12:18
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USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:In your email, you should say something like 'I'm sure you'll be able to find a high schooler or intern who would be thrilled with your offer.' Literally said this to a potential employer when I was freelance. They wanted to pay me $50 per web design at a high volume. I laughed in their faces.
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Mar 6, 2014 01:41
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Echoing the "you handled that well." When someone gives you a crappy offer and says "but think of the other benefits" the natural inclination is to say "screw this." And 99 times out of a 100 (or maybe 999 out of a 1000) that's the right response. There are some pretty wild exceptions to the rule where you take a short term hit for a long term gain, but it's impossible to know if it'll be worth it up front.
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Mar 10, 2014 20:30
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Doesn't hurt to wait for the second offer to see what kind of options that gives you. If it's better pay you have the option of accepting or using it to lever better pay out of the first firm. If it's not better pay, you still have the option of telling them you have a competitive offer and getting something in your initial target range would seal the deal. Also, you asked if it was too late to negotiate back to the salary you originally wanted. Not only is it not too late but this is actually the time to do it. You already have a job and you might have another offer coming, so you're in a position with a good amount of leverage. Confidently tell them that you're excited at the opportunity to work with them and are glad that they see you in their organization. Then tell them that your qualifications and backgrounds are worth a higher salary and that you want to see a number in your original range. As has been said time and again in this thread, it's your life, not theirs. Go for what you reasonably deserve.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:01
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Fiedler posted:Okay. Could you explain the rationale behind not doing that? Is it, for example, motivated by risk aversion -- e.g. one or both companies might respond by withdrawing their offer? This has been said before: Unless you're a Heisman trophy winner or something these companies aren't going to want to enter a bidding war. Just give them the best negotiation you can to get the best deal for yourself. How would you even go about creating a bidding war? Hire an auctioneer and get them all in a room at the same time? Instead of trying to be all alpha and using the offers explicitly you can use them internally to boost your own confidence and go a little more aggressive in your negotiation. But if you start playing games with them they might just say "screw this guy, he's not the be all-end all." You have a lot of options right now. Don't get tacky, just play it straight. The closest you could come without being tacky is to say to one of them "I really appreciate your offer and I'd like to make it work. I do have another offer from another firm but I'd rather work with you. Is it at all possible to agree on a number/benefits/whatever that comes closer to what I'm asking?"
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Mar 13, 2014 23:44
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Halloween Jack posted:I've read the entire thread, but I wonder if the advice here might apply somewhat differently to my situation--I'm looking for jobs within a university system, and every job already has a listed pay band. Although there are some where the band is very broad (like $20k) it's generally $5-10k. Don't know how it is in universities but if you're coming from the outside you could stand a chance of getting higher up the scale. Just do all the stuff in this thread and be confident and you stand the best chance.
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Mar 17, 2014 21:51
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Odds are they have your current pay then, so it may have some downward pressure if you're moving to a job with a band near your current one. If you're moving to a new field or something and have new education / skills added to the mix then you have a better case for it not to be a factor. This is exactly right. Unfortunately, internal moves that are roughly in the same world as what you were doing won't see big pay jumps. In my experience you have to make a pretty dramatic internal move (new location with different cost of living, for example) to reboot the salary. Otherwise the old one will inform the new one. They might have a policy that states that your new salary should be no more than x% higher than your old one. Still, negotiate away, but be realistic. I've started to write out my experiences with this scenario many times but I'm hesitant to go into too much specific detail. I was offered an exciting internal promotion that everyone in multiple layers of management was excited for me to do and explicitly told me they had no plan B and I was really their only choice. Then I was given an insulting salary that was actually a pay-cut when factoring the loss of overtime wages. I actually used the term "slap in the face" when they told it to me. I played hardball but I was told at the end of a couple of weeks of discussion that it was firm and that it was "take it or leave it." That was actually how they phrased it me even though they were proactively offering something that I didn't pursue and were supposedly trying to woo me to do to. (I mean, I appreciated the candor but still!!)
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Mar 19, 2014 07:41
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Kobayashi posted:Hopefully you "left it." Another reason I've been hesitant to tell my story is that it flies in the face of all the advice in this thread. It's literally the one-in-a-million situation where you don't do the advisable thing and it works out. There was something else that I wanted to do and I knew that doing this low-pay thing could get me there. So I took it, killed it, got a nice adjustment a year later that put me up closer to where I originally wanted to be, and then half a year after that made the real thing I wanted to happen happen and am now in a completely different world with a better position, new location, and much, much higher salary. But the stars need to align and you need to be able to see a long term plan from years off and hustle towards it every day. I almost started a thread about it but it would be too specific and frankly too humble-braggy. Let's just say that IF you know that you're going for something more long term and IF you know how to use the short term counterintuitive move to get there then it CAN pay off. But it takes a lot of work and a little luck, so unless you're confident that you can pull it off you need to think seriously about whether or not to try.
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Mar 19, 2014 08:02
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that's the appropriate barrage of caveats that need to follow my story. It worked out for me. To some extent I made it happen but anywhere along the way someone could have decided to deny me something and I would have been stuck. In fact I did ruffle some feathers along the way but at a certain point I decided to go for broke and once I got the ear of the people I needed there was no looking back. The key is if you decide to take a short term unconventional offer for a longer term plan don't let any bitterness get to you. If you do take an effective pay cut (as I did) and other moves are contingent on how things go, coming in with a chip on your shoulder about the pay cut that you essentially agreed to is going to hurt no one but yourself. I let it go and kicked butt regardless. I'm sure that that that helped with all the things that happened after as much as any maneuvering, networking, or self-promotion I did. The lesson I've learned is to be honest (to a point) and go with my gut always. Now whenever my gut is telling me "contact this person" or "focus on this project" I do it. I developed that sense over time, however, and I didn't find BFC until I was way far into this process. BFC is a good place to bounce ideas around but no one here can know your specific situation as well as you do. I wonder sometimes if I'd asked BFC about the salary thing and everyone had said "I hope you're going to tell them to shove it" where I'd be now. Because in my (very specific) case the entire chain of events led to my current opportunity, which rocks. Sometimes you do need to step out into the unknown and try something weird. But, yeah, it can be tricky knowing what to do. For me the key is forward momentum. I've taken good offers, bad offers, and great offers, but in every case I could tell you clearly what new ground I was breaking in my own career development. If nothing else, that's worth something.
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Mar 19, 2014 22:05
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spwrozek posted:Don't decline the offer. Come back at $55 and see what they do. Don't just give up who cares how big the gap is. Be honest about what you think the responsibilities of the job dictate for pay. They will either day 45 or come up some. If not the take it or walk away. I agree. Give it a shot. What's the worst that can happen? But run the numbers. Will they come back with 50? What will you do if they counter 48? Would that be attractive? Last couple of times I got an offer I sort of had my dream number, my realistic number and my rock bottom number in mind and sort of thought out how I'd react to each. You've gotten an initial offer that's below your rock bottom. If you can get it up to your lowest number would it be worth it? Are there other benefits that you can negotiate for that would make it worth it? Only you know the answer to those questions. Just a reminder, you originally said this: "My salary expectation is $55k". $50k is my sweet spot and anything lower I'd really have to think about." So if they can get to, say, 48k is that close enough to your sweet spot that it's worth it? Up to you. corkskroo fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 22:16
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Do not go for pity. Your personal details are of no concern to them unless they are extraordinary (they aren't). Go for confidence and "I'm worth it." But start with a little about how excited you are about the opportunity and that you're looking forward to moving this conversation along so that you can work together.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:29
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Kalenn Istarion posted:They don't give a poo poo about your wedding. You can be factual about hurdles you are facing and they need to pay you to overcome, and you can endeavour to make them feel bad about missing / ignoring your initial target. The only angle I'd maybe bring in about the personal issues is that if they offer a salary that eases up more of your burdens then you'll be able to dive right into your work and give them more in return. But this could sound like you're threatening to withhold hard work if you don't get what you want. I'd be hesitant to get into any of this personal stuff. They probably don't want to hear it. They want to know they spent a little more to get the best in the field, not to pay for your wedding.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:33
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What's the deal with the expenses/office moving? Could you try for a gas card or something? Is that the issue?
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Mar 20, 2014 23:35
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Korovyev posted:Success! I've got a $50k salary with $5k of bonus possible at the end of the year, public transit and gym reimbursement, and 4 weeks of PTO. I feel much more confident about switching career paths now that I have such a solid footing. Awesome! Care to share how it went down so others can see which tactics worked for you?
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Mar 22, 2014 02:33
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Others here have more experience than I do but that seems like the picture-perfect negotiation. It's iron-clad proof that you don't need to be the Michael Jordan of your industry to use the ideas we're talking about and make them work for you. Good job!
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Mar 22, 2014 19:04
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Just to hammer home the importance of negotiating, this dude wrote an email and IT MADE HIM FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR. Not only that but the employer won out too imo because they got an employee who feels they value him and is probably more likely to feel invested in them. Everyone wins!
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Mar 22, 2014 21:51
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Trying to negotiate for more should always be something that you should feel comfortable doing. However, remember to never overplay your hand. Specifically: I'm glad to see you say that. One time I had a salary negotiation all planned out. I had low, medium and high numbers in my head, I watched videos about negotiation, etc... Heck I even had a spreadsheet open that would instantly turn any offer/counteroffer into a bunch of calculations that would tell me what the salary really meant in terms of various aspects of my life and expenses. I wanted to be ready to respond to anything since it was all going to be on the phone and I was 99.999% going to be moving forward no matter what (since I really wanted the opportunity) so it was extra important that everyone have a good experience with the negotiation since we would almost certainly be working together. And then the offer exceeded my top amount/intended counter by 10%. Not only that but it came in just a touch under the top of the pay band and about 30% higher than what I was imagining. I made the-in-the moment decision to NOT try to negotiate on salary. It was already well over what I'd been calculating in terms of living expenses and knew it couldn't go much higher anyway. But after telling them how excited I was that they wanted me to join their group I did move right on to asking for other stuff. Used all the same negotiation techniques in making the business case for additional benefits and got all those too. So if the number is something that really makes you happy already and you decide that for you the negotiations should focus on something else then that can work out very well too. No shame in that game!
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Mar 24, 2014 22:27
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Exactly. Very good outcome of the overall offer experience. I think that the more nuanced truth might be that the goal of a good negotiation isn't just to get the most monies (the world isn't a Donald Trump book) but rather for both parties to leave the table feel confident that they're making the right choice. A lot of times that might mean "get the most money" but it doesn't have to look exactly like that. Everyone has different situations. Happy for you.
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Mar 25, 2014 08:02
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skipdogg posted:That's a winning offer right there. Be careful about countering a strong offer. We've pulled offer sheets from folks we decided were too motivated by money. It's a red flag that they won't be around for a while and it's not worth hiring them. It's all about what you want out of life. I moved from a medium COL city to one of the highest. So my rent now dwarfs all my previous living expenses. My salary is much higher as well, but not enough to make up the difference. But I'm enjoying where I live so much more as well. Did I maintain my "standard of living" in terms of square footage or ability to make car payments or buying all organic produce or whatever? No. But my standard of living in many other areas (that I happen to value over those things) went up anyway. I'm a big proponent of relocating to a more lively environment but not everyone wants what I want out of life.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:57
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skipdogg posted:Very true, excellent point. I'm a married guy in his early 30's with 2 kids, a high earning mid/late 20's person who is single would probably find my life very very boring. I'm almost 40. It's not about boring/not boring. It's just about what you happen to value. (I know you weren't taking it that way, but I just want to reinforce that there's no one size fits all formula.)
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Mar 27, 2014 22:08
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Whoop! Care to elaborate for the sake of others looking to do this?
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Apr 2, 2014 01:26
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This thread is the best thread.
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Apr 2, 2014 09:28
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Sarcasmatron posted:1. Do what he asked. This is exactly right. Even if you don't get the open manager role at your current job you'll be able to put all those skills on your resume so you can interview for it somewhere else.
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Apr 25, 2014 06:51
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Also keep in mind that they won't be paying you for slow days when you're sitting around with little to do, breaks, lunch, holidays, vacation, etc... So, yeah, much much more than your hourly rate. I'd say well over 100.
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Apr 29, 2014 06:49
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I have a friend at a mega major corp considering a counteroffer based on an offer to just ship for another mega major right now. I'll see what happens and report back...
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May 2, 2014 06:23
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swenblack posted:It seems like you've already decided on your course of action. I'd add though, that start-ups often implode for any number of reasons. Even if they're well run, the long term success rate is well below 50%. In my experience people who leave a company and then come back a few years later make way more money than when they left. So keep that in mind as you exit gracefully. Leave the door open in case the start up doesn't pan out.
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Jun 28, 2014 11:30
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:A friend of mine got offered a job where I am and I told him to ask for more money and they countered with an amount in between their initial offer and his counteroffer. "Hello dear sir, may I have some more money, please." "Why sure young goon, here is more money for you." "Thank you so very much." "Think nothing of it, we're very pleased to give it to you."
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Jul 15, 2014 21:49
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