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A vote for discord is a vote for freedom! 
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Aug 14, 2014 23:26
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Flesnolk posted:Stuff like that makes me think posters like HGS aren't wrong about wanting the whole Senate thrown out. yup
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Aug 15, 2014 04:48
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At least we are slightly self aware about it here. I have nothing against fun little side projects like the CK2 roleplaying thing mentioned above, but lets not have them in this thread. We do not want a repeat of flamboyant schemers where a perfectly decent LP is wasted because of thousands upon thousands of posts that are, at best, prolonged internet slap fights.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:23
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Flamboyant Schemers was a very different LP with a very different thread. I think Rince is pretty good about shutting things down before they get too far. There's always going to be some degree of RPing in a paradox participation LP, comes with the territory. I agree the more petty slap fights are to be avoided, though I think it's fair to let people have a say. Gives people something to do between updates.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:26
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  OK, so this morning I woke up with a pressing need to go on the other kind of beer run and I was out of toilet paper so I grabbed the nearest scroll at hand and rushed to the lavatory. While sitting on my throne, I discovered that I was holding the abstract of the conclusions of the recent Council of Smyrna. Hitherto, my attempts to read it had been hijacked by a reflexive urge to grab a stiff drink every time I see the word "preamble," but at this moment there was no such drink at hand and the ongoing domestic disturbance in my colon prevented me from acquiring one, so I found myself actually reading the document. The result was pleasant surprise. The denunciation of the Bogomolist faith was, perhaps, a little too strident and the continuing call for the destruction of the Orbetello Papacy struck me as exactly the sort of wrong-headed Milvian/Old Roman gladius-rattling my family has spent the last three centuries or so railing against, but otherwise I found nothing in the Council's proclamation that I could reasonably object to. The separation of the Orthodox Church from the Imperial apparatus is only proper, and the rejection of the doctrine of Living Saints finally purges the Church of the creeping absolutism that drove several of my ancestors to drink even more heavily than usual. What's more, I whole-heartedly support the institution of public religious schools and hospitals because it will improve the miserable lot of our peasantry and, on a more personal level, is likely to save my family a fortune on ulcer medication. It therefor came as quite a shock to see so many other members of the Inclusionist coalition short-sightedly reject the council's proclamation. The Komnenian Restoration is adamantly opposed to any misuse or abuse of church power, and respects the rights of peoples of all faiths to live unmolested within the Empire, but make no mistake, we are Orthodox. The Church of Christ, Constantine, and the Komnenoi will ever be the our Church and any attempt to slander or neuter it will be opposed. I had thought my comrades and compatriots in the Inclusionist movement understood that, but in recent days you have come perilously close to rejecting not just the Faith's more quarrelsome adherents, but the Faith itself. I must ask you to step back from the brink and consider what you are saying. This Council and the Edict of Athens have brought us closer than ever to the independent, depoliticized, and genuinely tolerant Orthodoxy we've always wanted, and yet you still reject it! They've given us most of what we want, we should be thankful. We should be encouraging them to continue down the path, not castigating them for not going quite far enough! Put simply, we need to relearn the lesson of tolerance. If we would have the Empire's minority faiths treated with respect and dignity, we must be willing to extend the same generosity of spirit to the majority. I look forward to discussing these issues with my fellow Inclusionists over the coming days and weeks and still believe we can come to an accord, but for the moment, I need a drink.
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Aug 18, 2014 01:48
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 PART 41: The Golden Age of the Radziwiłłs (1541-1610) Dispatches from the Roman Army General Staff Maintain watch for Bogomilist and Gallican uprisings, but after that rotten business in the Senate I daresay we're finally over the hump.  (OOC: The main impact of this-- decreased chances for Gallican/Bogomilist conversion events to fire in our provinces-- aren't shown.) Can't say I agree with everything the Council of Smyrna said, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? The Church is now free to say whatever drat fool things they please in exchange for abiding by the Edict of Athens. And they have some good ideas. Phanariote Schools! Charity! About time the Church earned its keep around here. And I've heard they're getting rid of all of those spooky Sainted Emperor types. They had one other idea of note, and that's why I am writing this dispatch: the reconquest of Rome. We still need to recover from our last wars, but Her Imperial Majesty has approved the plans, so we should begin building up our forces for an offensive in Italy. All commands should begin recruitment. Admiralty We have begun rebuilding our fleet to compensate for the losses it has lately suffered. With recent improvements in naval technology facilitated by Monternos, our ships will be more powerful than ever and our dominance over the Eastern Mediterranean restored. Deus vult!  Committee of Venice With the collapse of our alliance with Poland, loyal and steadfast Lombardy is our only remaining ally. As instructed by the Empress, we have begun improving our relations with nations both strong enough to offer substantial aid but far enough not to consider us a hated rival. We are reasonably confident in our chances of success.    Committee of St. Valeria A few of our provinces have strayed from the light and embraced the wicked heresy of Bogomilism. In accordance with the Edict of Athens, we have taken no action. Fortunately, thanks to the combined effects of the Edict and the ecumenical council's efforts to restore the Church to a Godly course our overall religious unity has not been harmed by a handful of wayward peasants.  Committee of Venice  We have continued our diplomatic efforts to prepare for war with the Papal State. After their defeats at the hands of France, they were briefly considered unworthy rivals. Now, however, it seems that they are one against strong enough for us to gain considerable glory and prestige from our inevitable victory against them. Empress Theodora II ABORT ALL PREPARATIONS FOR ITALIAN CAMPAIGN – DISPATCH ALL AVAILABLE FORCES TO THE EASTERN FRONTIER  Regional commanders, doukes, and other local authorities are instructed to make every possible effort to fortify the territories they are responsible for.  Princess Iouliana Radziwiłł By my authority as an imperial princess, I hereby appoint Captain Augustus Anatolike my personal bodyguard. He will henceforth serve as part of my royal household.  General Parvin Kirkos As commander of the eastern theater, I have designated our main objective as the capture of Erzurum. This province, noncontiguous with the rest of Yilang's territory, is highly vulnerable to Roman attack.  Yilang is attempting to advance through the former territories of Kartli. We must not allow them to break through our lines into Anatolia proper.  Empress Theodora II I've heard a few scattered reports of poor morale from our boys and girls in the field. Chin up! We are Rome. We've been fighting wars against Persia since the days of the Republic. So what if their officers speak Chinese now? Nothing's really changed since the Battle of Carrhae. And the house of Radziwill is descended from the house of the Julii! The blood of the triumvirs flows in our veins.  General Selene Krbavski To: Theodora II, Gen. Aurelian Pisani Her Imperial Majesty's point is well-taken; however, with respect, I feel the Battle of Carrhae was a poor example to invoke.  General Aurelian Pisani The Ragusans failed to hold out until Roman reinforcements can arrive. Recommend immediate withdrawal.  Empress Theodora II I've heard our abysmal prestige is causing some morale problems! So have a little something from our friends in Italy. Remember what you're fighting for: the possibility of fighting the Pope later on.  General Aurelian Pisani Our forces in Anatolia are shattered-- we were withdrawing to Constantinople and the Theodosian Walls to adopt a more defensive posture.  General Selene Krbavski Tell the Empress Byzantion province is safe.  Empress Iouliana II Unfortunately, Mother perished in the evacuation. I am now in command. Continue your defense of the Bosphorus.  General Selene Krbavski Long live the Empress. General Aurelian Pisani May she live up to her illustrious namesake Iouliana the Great!   IOULIANA II RADZIWILL • CROWNED AUGUST 23rd, 1545 Gen. Fernuccio Menotti (Lombardy) Nice job defending Constantinople! We'll take it from here. General Selene Krbavski Oh God.  General Selene Krbavski I guess we're advancing now? General Pisani, help me out here. Jesus Christ.  Gen. Fernuccio Menotti (Lombardy) We'll push them right back to China! That's where they're from, right? Anyway, you can thank us later. Ciao ciao.  General Aurelian Pisani It wasn't the plan, but the counterattack is going well. We've nearly pushed Yilang out of Anatolia entirely.  Empress Iouliana II We are very pleased with the dispatches we have received from the east and hereby order Gens. Pisani and Krbavski to advance into Yilangese territory.  Empress Iouliana II General Pisani, General Krbavski, how goes the offensive? We have not heard from you in some time, and are starting to be just a bit concerned.  General Aurelian Pisani We have been driven out of Yilang thanks to their superior leadership and technology, but we should be able to recover by withdrawing back to Constantinople. Which was the plan before Lombardy forced our hand. Still, if nothing else changes we can begin pushing back again before too long.  Gen. Fernuccio Menotti (Lombardy) I have received a letter from my king with new orders. It reads as follows: "Byeee." So: Byeee.    Empress Iouliana II A two front war against Da Qin and Austria on top of Yilang is cause for concern, we agree. But the empire is vast and bountiful. We shall prevail! Keep fighting!  With the Edict of Athens in place, all the peoples of the empire stand behind the army!  General Pisani, please take your army west and fight of Ao Di Li. If we can force them to make a separate peace, we can avoid them severing the Adriatic corridor.  We substantially outnumber the Austrians, so I'm sure you can take them out.  General Aurelian Pisani Although we met with defeat, we have honed our military tactics based on those used by Ao Di Li. We shall strive to do better next time.   Empress Iouliana II General Pisani: Must admit, was surprised to hear of your triumph in your second push against Austria, since based on your last dispatch we were suspecting dramatic irony was at work. Congratulations are in order! Now we just need to worry about the eastern front. We've sent word to Krbavski to see how things are going over there.   Empress Iouliana II Krbavski says: "Not very well."   General Aurelian Pisani We've lost control of the situation in Anatolia, but I'm optimistic we can keep them on their side of the Bosphorus, at least.      Empress Iouliana II We wish you'd stop saying how well you expect things to go; we always expect the exact opposite to happen. Fortunately, your predicted success once again came to fruition. You are a credit to Rome, Aurelian Pisani. While my son was named after the great emperor Aurelian, Restorer of the World, I am pleased that he shares a name with you as well. General Aurelian Pisani Thank you, Your Imperial Majesty. Now that we've driven Da Qin out of Europe, we're ready to begin retaking Asia Minor. I expect things to go well.   Phanariote Committee We have repeatedly and urgently requested troops to put down the Croatian rebellion in the province of Albania. As we have been ignored, we have no choice but to allow our vassals in Ragusa to assume responsibility for the province.  General Aurelian Pisani Things are still going well.    Our armies are better trained and better equipped than ever.  We are rapidly regaining lost ground in Anatolia.  Committee of Venice Well, you wanted a war with the Papal State, right?  Empress Iouliana II Just see what they want and get us out of this. We can't fight in Italy and Anatolia at the same time. Not anymore.  Empress Iouliana II To: The Katepano of Ragusa We are currently attempting to move our armies from Greece and Anatolia to Italy. Please fulfill your obligations to your liege-lord and keep the Adriatic Corridor clear.  General Aurelian Pisani We outnumber the Papal State 2:1, and they lack the superior Chinese arms and tactics of Ao Di Li, Da Qin, or Yilang. I am  Note to self: Stop writing these dispatches in advance.       Empress Iouliana II To: General Aurelian Pisani We are extremely displeased with your recent defeats. However: France has just declared war on the Papal State. If we can just hold out, we can perhaps gain a more advantageous peace after the French inevitably triumph over the Church Militant.  The Varangian Committee has prepared a few surprises for whatever's left over when the French are done. Just hang in there! Reject every peace offer you get until France finishes them off!    General Aurelian Pisani Regrettably, Eugene V has prioritized defeating Rome over being defeated by France. We must make peace.   Emperor Aurelian II I shall not allow you to dishonor my mother's memory by surrendering to Papist scum. Stay in the field. This is an order from your emperor.   AURELIAN II RADZIWILL • CROWNED DECEMBER 7th, 1566 General Aurelian Pisani We have been forced to capitulate. Half the empire is in revolt after refusing peace offer after peace offer. We cannot fight on.     Emperor Aurelian II I am quite displeased that you have disobeyed your emperor's orders, General Pisani. However, peace does offer an opportunity to rebuild the institutions of state and the military-- and plot our revenge.  Committee of Venice A fleet of grand ships-- worthy of Zheng He's own fleet- arrived in Constantinople under a strange flag. Their commander-- a dashing explorer named Habaguanex Boriken-- spoke passable Latin. He said his people are called the Tainos and claimed to come from a far-off empire called Ayiti, based in a chain of islands off the coast of the continent the Scottish have named Avalon. Apparently, they are now contesting Scotland for control over the mainland of Avalon. We cannot verify any of this, of course, but we are quite taken with the image of a maritime island empire and its grand fleet fighting tooth and nail against the Catholic von Habsburgs for control of the Far West.  Emperor Aurelian II The doukes of the empire have demanded that their ancient privileges be returned. I have told them to get stuffed. Expect some pushback.  Overall, though, stability is rapidly being restored to the empire. I feel animated by the spirit of Aurelian I, that legendary Restitutor Orbis. We can now concentrate on recovering from our losses suffered at the hands of Da Qin, Yilang, and the Papal State.   Committee of Venice The Emperor is advised to note that our truce with Da Qin has expired.   Varangian Committee Will these new cannons help? Please say yes.  Emperor Aurelian II General Aurelian Pisani is relieved of command. General Sophia Yisrael is now the supreme commander of the Roman Army. And look at the victory she's won!  Yes, with Sophia Yisrael in charge I expect things to go well.  [illegible expletives]    Emperor Aurelian II To: The Katepano of Ragusa Your poor performance in our recent wars has been noted. You're fired.   Phanariote Committee With the empire at peace we can now begin programmes to rebuild our prestige, improve infrastructure and morale, etc.  Emperor Aurelian II Emperor Aurelian II I'm going to kill everyone. Also, "Russia"? Russia? What happened to Kiev, Third Rome? Is Rome not still the brightest light of the Near West? Are we not the ideal to which all nations aspire? Why else would those Habsburg dogs in Germany cling to the ideal of Translatio Imperii?   We are the rising sun of the West! The colossus of the Mediterranean!  Who's in charge of the war with Russia, anyway? What's going on up there?  General Belet Cyrahzax I am. Send my regards to my cousin in the Senate.  Emperor Aurelian II Excellent, General Cyrahzax! Now that we've smashed their grand offensive by the main body of their army, I shall be at your side as you advance into the Russian interior! We are blessed with an unusually mild winter, so victory is ours for the taking. Let's see how many provinces we can seize from them. As your senatorial relatives have said so many times, the empire must expand.  Goodness gracious where did all these Russians come from  General Abydos Abdikarim To: Gen. Cyrahzax, His Imperial Majesty Aurelian II Don't worry, we've still got this. In spite of being heavily outnumbered, thanks to my timely arrival we have routed Russia's main army and have presumably crippled their ability to make war. P.S. What kind of name is "Cyrahzax" supposed to be?  Emperor Aurelian II My scouts have seen clouds of dust on the horizon. Anybody have any idea what's going on?   General Belet Cyrahzax Yaroslavovich scum! To think that these barbarians once had the arrogance to call themselves Romans. The entire period of decline that has led us to this crisis can be laid at the feet of Yaroslav Yaroslavovich and his "Kiev-Byzantium". The Komnenoi gave us cause to be proud to call ourselves Romans after the the disaster at Manzikert-- until that wicked murderess Gabrielia the Cruel betrayed her people to set her mongrel son on the throne! I spit on her memory! I spit on the house of Yaroslavl! I spit on all barbarian filth! Even in defeat, the superiority of Roman valor is evident to all civilized men! They only bested us by overwhelming us with wave after wave of teeming serf hordes-- a frothing wave of suicidal humanity. They have bested us on the battlefield, but at what cost? A message sent to the rest of the world that they are nothing but fur-clad savages trained in the rudiments of musketry by traitors and vermin. Give me the order, your majesty, and I shall begin the counterattack and drive Aleksandr Yaroslavovich and his cavalcade of suicidal serfs into the Black Sea.  Emperor Aurelian II Your zeal is appreciated, General Cyrahzax! Unfortunately, revenge will have to wait-- an alliance of Yilang and Somalia has declared war on Rome.   We are forced to accept a stalemate with Russia-- for now. But a stalemate is better than a defeat.  Emperor Aurelian II To: Gens. Cyrahzax, Abidkarim Here is the plan for our war against Somalia and Yilang: We cannot hope to fight off the Somalian Republic's invasion of Italy. Our navy lies at the bottom of the Mediterranean, and for some mysterious reason the Papal State refuses us military access through Friuli. Fortunately, we might not have to: Yilang is the war leader. So you two will lead armies into Anatolia while I keep the main force in Constantinople. When you come under attack, we will relieve you and crush Da Qin.  The Admiralty The Somalian Republic enjoys total naval supremacy in the Mediterranean. A detachment of their navy has blocked the straits of the Bosphorus. Generals Cyrahzax and Abidkarim are stranded in Anatolia without any hope of relief.  On the bright side, if we are ever able to rebuild our navy, we have some excellent new ship designs to try out.  Emperor Aurelian II Then we shall hold Constantinople until the last drop of Roman blood is spilt! General Cyrahzax, General Abidkarim: Do your duty to your emperor and prevent the Sino-Persians from crossing the Bosphorus for as long as possible. The longer you hold out, the more we can prepare our fortifications.           General Belet Cyrahzax Confidential to Gen. Abidkarim I'm starting to have my doubts about Emperor Aurelian II really being the descendant of Julius Caesar. Phanariote Committee Finances in a woeful state; army mostly mercenaries; state is having to take out new loans every few months just to stay in the field. However, we have some ideas about how to raise some cash.  Emperor Aurelian II To Gens. Cyrahzax and Abidkarim The sacrifices of your men and women were not in vain! Yilang forces have crossed the Bosphorus, but we are more than ready for them thanks to the time you bought us.  I am the Restitutor Orbis reborn. Aurelian I knitted an empire in crisis back together, singlehandedly. I am no different. You'll see.  Venetian Committee Somalia, seeing no profit in continuing to fight on Yilang's behalf, has agreed to a separate peace in return for a mere concession of defeat. We accepted their terms, of course, but in sinking our transport fleet and blocking the Bosphorus during the decisive phases of the war this changes very little.  Peace with Yilang came at a much harsher price. But with Yilang troops at the gates of Constantinople and the Emperor's army fleeing in disarray, who were we to argue?  P.S.: Our truce with Da Qin expired.  Emperor Aurelian II Our army is the envy of the world; the greatest fighting force ever assembled in human history.  General Cyrahzax, I have placed under your command a grand Legion of true Romans. I order you to defeat Da Qin at once. Aurelian I is watching you.    All nations in the world seek to emulate our example-- our Legions, our provincial administration, our consuls, our Senate. See how the Gallic Empire tries to emulate our forms of government! Marcus Cassianius Latinius Postumus calls himself "Princeps", and has created his own false Senate, appointed false consuls, formed a false Praetorian Guard. Once we have triumphed over Zenobia and reclaimed the Roman East, Postumus too shall fall.   Venetian Committee We're sure His Imperial Majesty was just being poetic there, and his identification of Queen Adelaide de Valois-Veix with the Gallic Emperor "Postumus" was a mere rhetorical device. Venetian Committee Partial Transcript of meeting between Pope Eugene V and the Roman Ambassador to the Papal State: POPE EUGENE V: A state of war now exists between the Papal State and the Greek Empire. YOu are being expelled from Rome; the Church Militant will escort you to the border. AMBASSADOR: How dare you! You who claim to have Christendom's interests at heart-- yet you turn on us even as we struggle against the infidels to the east. You call yourself a holy man, but heretic filth like you are nothing more than vultures picking at the carcass of the Roman Empire. POPE EUGENE V: Better a vulture than a carcass. Now, out of my sight.  General Abydos Abidkarim To: Aurelian II. We are urgently requesting new orders. From you, from the Senate, from the Committees of State, from anybody in the imperial government. We have not received word from Constantinople in some time. Please reply as soon as possible.  The Varangian Committee Constantinople has been sacked by Da Qin. The city is in flames. Most of the Senate is dead or fled, we know not which. We, however, endure.  We have ordered General Cyrahzax to Dalmatia to fight Ao Di Li.   There are a few members of the Venetian Committee here with us. They insist that we do something about the state of the economy. Typical of those money-grubbers to think only of silver when there's a war to win!  And we will win. The gears of state still turn! Progress and modernization march on! If anybody from Monternos is still alive, we're sure they'd be proud of what we've done with the army.   The Venetian Committee You're idiots. We resign. Hope your fancy new army likes fighting without being paid for it.  Aurelian II To the Varangian Committee: Your emperor lives! Half my army has unexpectedly vanished, however. Please explain how this happened. We are being chansed by a sizable barbarian army, and I am shocked to see such dishonorable conduct from Roman Legionaries in this time of crisis.  Fortunately, half of the barbarians have broken off their pursuit, and we outnumber what's left. We shall prevail! P.S. How goes the war against Zenobia? Has Palmyra been brought to heel?    Aurelian II To the Varangian Committee: I have ordered my legions to return to Greece, but they aren't moving. Please send me a new legion that follows orders.  Aurelian II To the Varangian Committee: Belay that last order. The legion is now returning east after some druids in elaborate hats came and cast spells to make it move faster with their magic staffs.  Aurelian II To Legate Cyrahzax, Legate Abidkarim, Legate Yisrael, Legate Pisani, St. Valeria, Varangian Captain Arni, Agrippa, Pompey the Great, and Scipio Africanus. Am quite pleased, quite pleased indeed to hear of your triumph over Zenobia and her "Palmyrene Empire". She shall be paraded before all Rome in chains in my triumph. Let victory over the Gallic Empire follow swiftly!  Varangian Committee Having appraised our overall strategic situation, we have formulated the following policy re: rebel armies that we expect all regional commanders to follow. The policy is as follows: Do whatever the rebels tell us to. Thank you.    Aurelian II More barbarians from north of the Danube! We'll show them what it means to be Roman.   (OOC: At this point Lai Ang and banu Riyahs declared war on me as well, but I somehow missed screenshotting it. But that's happening too.  )The Committee of St. Valeria Our attempts to restore proper ecclesiastical hierarchy in Constantinople following its sack at the hands of Da Qin have failed-- there simply wasn't any money. We're afraid that the people of the city have taken matters into their own hands.  Varangian Committee The Papal State is ready to talk peace terms. Well, more like "dictate" than "talk". It's not like we can argue. Even if our army wasn't a shattered husk, our bankruptcy means our soldiers won't stick around long in battle.  Once that's through with, though, we swear our army will be more organized and better than ever! Seriously.  Say, has anybody heard from the Emperor? Leading the defense of Constantinople, you say?  Oh dear.  Varangian Committee "loyal and steadfast Lombardy is our only remaining ally", wrote the Venetian Committee, a million years ago. Things aren't going very well.  We remind local commanders of our "agree to anything rebels ask for" policy, and ask why somebody forgot to agree to what the Bulgarian rebels asked for.   Princess Hypatia Radziwiłł To the Black Chamber: Do it.  Empress Hypatia II Radziwiłł Regrettably, my father was killed valiantly fighting against Gallican Hungary. He died a true soldier's death-- let his sacrifice be an example to all the empire.  HYPATIA II RADZIWILL • CROWNED APRIL 12th, 1597 Rest assured that the House of Radziwiłł remains as prestigious as ever, and all the greatest royal houses of Europe clamor to marry into our line.    General Belet Cyrahzax Oh, Rome has gone to the dogs, to the dogs.  I was ordered to take command our our late emperor's army. Yet the lazy swine who pass for soldiers in this fallen age refused to even lift a finger until their pay arrived, even when the empire's very survival was at stake. They're all dead now.  Everyone is dead. The entire army is dead. The only soldiers in the entire Roman Empire are myself, and Generals Abdikarim and Galileo Nestongos. Frankly, an improvement over the demoralized rabble we were reduced to campaigning with.  Varangian Committee We aren't seeing what the problem here is. We've worked very hard to maintain technological parity with our rivals, you know.  Committee of Venice We know we resigned en masse, but we would like to offer the piquant observation that before this war, Ferrara was reduced to a single province, and that province did not even contain the actual city of Ferrara. Nice job.  General Abydos Abdikarim All is lost, all is lost. We cannot field a single soldier. I have failed the empire.   Empress Hypatia II Radziwiłł One war ends, the next one begins. I wouldn't wish being Empress of Rome on my worst enemies at this point.  The Varangian Committee insists the situation is salvageable, and point to our many magnificent forts. But who will man those forts?  Constantinople is in a panic-- with the printing press, rumors, libels, and political grudges spread through the city faster than ever. They're probably right to be. We're doomed.  Doomed.  Our enemies all come calling the instant our prior truces run out; there is no time to recover our manpower, rebuilt our fleets, let silver flow once more into our coffers. The empire is falling.  Even as one war is brought to a conclusion, enemies from the next war sweep over our hand unhindered.  We are avoiding the pig-headed obstinacy that kept us fighting prior wars long after they were lost-- but it's the difference between a death of a thousand cuts or just getting your head cut off. Either way, you're dead. And beheading is probably a more merciful death.  We've emerged from bankruptcy, at least, and we can begin to rebuilt our armies with our improved logistics.  Not that there's any point; it's not like our feeble army can do anything to turn back the irresistible tide of history.  These are the end times. Our enemies all know it.  But still we scurry about, pretending there will be a tomorrow. Drawing up plans for ships never to be built.  Imagining a future other than the quiet of the grave.  Constantinople was sacked again. I'm told it was an orderly affair: after the Theodosian Walls were breached, the Somalis simply collected everything of value from the city in an orderly manner and loaded it onto their ships, bound for Mogadishu.  Apparently there's a Hui revolter state in Astrakhan called "Asitelahan". They declared war on us, too.  They told me General Cyrahzax is dead; chased down the length of Greece by Yilang, cornered, and slaughtered. I can hardly bring myself to care.    It's the end of the world. He simply beat the rush. Is anybody reading these dispatches? These orders from your Empress? I might as well be father, ordering armies that were wiped out months ago against enemies dead for a thousand years.  After rejecting several prior offers, the Somalian Republic finally made peace with us. Among other things, they ordered what was left of the old Exarchate of Kartli released as an independent state.   They're a Bogomilist theocracy now. Sometimes you have to laugh.  Ao Di Li's peace offering was less amusing, but still less severe than it might have been.  Da Qin decided to join in Asitelahan's war against us, though.  We have a new general to replace Cyrahzax and Abdikarim: Noor Commachio. She's earnest and optimistic. Full of bright ideas:  I like her. It's too bad there's literally nothing at all she can do to help us.  General Commachio, I order you to raise our fallen armies from their graves. No? You can't do that? Well, then I suppose things are hopeless. I convened what was left of the Senate in what was left of Constantinople. There were about three dozen of them. Their voices sounded hollow in the nearly empty Senate chamber. All the decorations were gone. The statues carted away, the mosaics carefully chiseled out of the floor, the paintings removed to parts unknown, even the flags were gone. The Old Romans' "Altar of the Angel of Victory" (and at this point let's just admit that it was just the Altar to Victory, right? Are we all grown-up enough to do that?) is probably ornamenting some patrician's mansion in Somalia. Probably for the best. There's very little for Victory to do in Rome. The Senators called for a restoration of stability. I told them I'd do what I could. I can't do anything.  Terminus marches ever inward.     Constantinople was sacked by Da Qin again. I was already bundled out of the city; I almost wish I hadn't been. If I'd been captured, I could abdicate like Romulus Augustulus did in the West, so long ago. Better a clean break than this. I wonder what happened to those Senators?  General Noor Commachio Fear not, my empress! Your armies are still in the field! We are dug in north of the Danube, and ready to resist any attempt to advance.  And while still regarding us as a hated rival, Russia has still offered us their best wishes in this time of crisis!  Empress Hypatia II Noor, Ah, poor Noor. I heard of your victories. It's very brave of you to keep fighting.    But don't you see the irony of a Roman Empire that ends south of the Danube?  I'm so sorry for everything. Tell Galileo I said that.   The empire is at peace. At least until the next round of truces expire in the next year. Then, presumably, our enemies will come around once again. What's left of it.  The Golden Age of the Komnenoi seemed to offer Rome a second chance at glory when it was nearly on the threshold of oblivion. The brilliance of Alexios I, Iouliana the Great, Trajan II, St. Valeria, and all their immortal peers seemed to point towards a future in which we had an important role to play. All lost now. In bits and pieces, at first-- the Holy Land, Lombardy, and the city of Rome lost in the chaos of Komitas Branas' reign, Cilicia lost to the Ming Frontier Army. Then the deluge began. Under my dynasty, the empire has lost most of Sicily, Tuscany, the Adriatic corridor, Bulgaria, the Anatolian interior, Cyprus. We are hardly better off than we were in 1081, when Alexios came to power in the wake of Manzikert, with Suleyman reigning over Rum and the empire little more than a Greek rump state. No, we're worse off-- at least Alexios' Rome had loyal allies. Where's our Henry IV von Salian? Nowhere. We're the laughingstock of the world. This, then, is our answer to the Golden Age of the Komnenoi: The Golden Age of the Radziwiłłs. Perhaps it is a golden age. Because, as everyone knows, in these times silver rules the world. WORLD MAP, 1610 
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Aug 18, 2014 07:02
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Masterful update, considering what you had to work with. Seeing the carousel of war in images drives it home. I can't remember any non-Danish LP that has run I to such dire straits. Also this is clearly the fault of Bogomilists. Somehow. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 07:09
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Jesus loving Christ.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:17
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Man, you are really bad at fighting wars.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:19
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Night10194 posted:Man, you are really bad at fighting wars.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:28
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So, yeah. We're in a death spiral. I stopped the update when we were finally at peace, but I'm sure the clowncar will unload itself on Rome again as soon as those truces expire. As has been observed, I'm not that good at EU4, and this is my first real game as a land power, where I can't just hide behind my wooden wall on Great Britain until my colonial empire gives me more money than god. Like, sometimes we LPers play these things sub-optimally so that this doesn't happen, and to some extent I was doing it in CK2, but in EU4, well, this me giving it my all.  Now, when I was building the mod, I saw that we were sort of the Super Ottomans, with Greece, Anatolia, the Balkans, most of Italy, etc. So I balanced it around providing a tough challenge to us, and carefully watched how the AI performed in test games to make sure that Rome, France, Yilang, Russia, the HRE, etc. all had a shot. It turns out, though, that Lucky Nation AI Rome is more effective than me, and so the mod closed around me like a bear trap and this happened. So, what now? What is to be done? As awe-inspiring as it was to watch things snowball like this in game, and as fun as the update was to write, I'm guessing you probably don't want to read about that stuff happening again for another 200 years until somebody finally puts us out of our misery and annexes us. Oh, and we have a new idea to pick. I was going to do a vote-- maybe set up some deliciously suboptimal choices, try to sell people on voting Espionage or something. We can't really afford to be suboptimal, though. So let's just talk about it. 
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Aug 18, 2014 07:40
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Christ. Things are so bad we get to see the New World to make up for it. That's a lot of land lost, I think the only LP I've seen where things got so desperate was Flamboyant Schemers.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:41
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uh I guess it's kinda too late to join the New Marians now? The situation might still be salvageable, but it'll be bloody hard to say the least. I'm not sure the Senate could do it. I say we go back to the finest traditions of Rome - select a dictator and give him temporary power to do everything he can to dig us out of this hole. Keeping the Emperors and Senate around as a figurehead to rally support around, yes, but let the dictator clear things up before going back to normal. OOC: Which is to say, hand the save and the mod to someone really drat good at the game. Let him play until he stabilizes the situation enough that it's more or less playable, then hand it back. No super-detailed lore updates required, just a precis of what happened. We can go back to the lore once the "dictator" has ended his term for whatever in-universe reason we come up with. I'm not volunteering because I don't think I'm THAT good, but it'd be an interesting challenge, anyhow.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:46
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Well, if the EU4 pros can advise you out of this, that would be amazing. If not, you can always switch to being France or something. Or the Papal State, for bonus heretical irony.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:48
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Clearly this was just a bad dream.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:50
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I suggest that we load from the start and re-do the entire thing.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:50
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^^^^ 1081, here we come!! My own personal soundtrack as Rince was describing events as they proceeded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDKB4kT3o1w
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Aug 18, 2014 07:50
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I would have loved to have seen what would have happened without the whacky and zany 'Ming invades everywhere from Iberia to Persia' stuff, and possibly without getting shattered by the Branas interregnum, but setting yourself up for a fall in EU4 tends to lead to being genuinely surprised when you fall.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:58
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 Just... wow. What happened to our relations with everyone else? I can't really say what to do in this situation due to my laptop's inability to play EU4 in any presentable way, but honestly I'd just say start at a far earlier save and call it a mulligan or... something.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:02
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StrifeHira posted:but honestly I'd just say start at a far earlier save and call it a mulligan or... something. Yeah, this is really honestly getting kind of not-fun to read anymore.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:04
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It's like suddenly the AI remembered that shade of purple isn't supposed to exist on the map this far into the game, and they all got together to do something about it.StrifeHira posted:
And not modernizing so we're technologically behind half our enemies. Oops.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:09
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Actually, you might just put up the save for folks to give it a bash in general. Anyone who's played through it and feels confident of being able to turn the situation around could volunteer to take over updating until, well, they've turned things around. And in any event it'd be an interesting challenge to try and power through it, and if it turns out the general consensus is that it can't be gotten out of, whelp, mulligan sounds good. Either that or a premature dramatic epilogue.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:11
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We actually should have been pretty up to par on tech! And even if we had Sinicized, it wouldn't have given us better units. I think it's definitely due to our diplomatic isolation, with the various factors playing into that. We could have taken any nation, save maybe France. All of them, in repeated succession, would have been too much for any nation to take.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:12
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Tomn posted:Actually, you might just put up the save for folks to give it a bash in general. Anyone who's played through it and feels confident of being able to turn the situation around could volunteer to take over updating until, well, they've turned things around. And in any event it'd be an interesting challenge to try and power through it, and if it turns out the general consensus is that it can't be gotten out of, whelp, mulligan sounds good. Either that or a premature dramatic epilogue.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:14
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Yeah, we're keeping up in tech. The only war where we were at a major tech disadvantage was the first war with the Pope, who's in our own tech group anyway, and we quickly caught up afterwards. Even in an empire short on silver, land, soldiers, prestige, allies, and hope, MIL points remain plentiful.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:19
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sniper4625 posted:We actually should have been pretty up to par on tech! And even if we had Sinicized, it wouldn't have given us better units. Diplomatic isolation is big, yeah, but it'd also help to figure out why exactly we were losing so many battles even before the dogpiling started. Bad terrain? Bad generals? Critical tech disadvantages, or weaker idea picks? Poor national ideas, or supercharged enemy national ideas? Extremely lovely luck? Feeding armies into battles piecemeal? Edit: Looking at those borders, one major advantage of getting a dictator in? We're almost at the borders we started CK2 with. It's time for the SECOND Restoration! Tomn fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 08:20
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Every single fight seems to be lost, which is a problem, even when we outnumber the enemy by a large degree and are attacking on decent terrain (i.e. the plains in Italy) without too bad an imbalance when it comes to generals. Part of the problem may be that our unit types aren't as good as the Chinese group ones, despite our keeping pace with them militarily. I'm almost tempted to suggest you buff our unit types slightly, and then roll back to the start of this update and see whether it makes a difference enough to make some of the wars which should have been eminently winnable (i.e. against the pope) actually winnable. With maybe a smidgeon of cheated in military tradition to produce a few decent generals as well. Then if the results turn out differently with the changes ask the thread to vote on whether to mulligan the last session or continue on from it with the changes in the hopes that the death spiral can be averted. The other option would be to convert to Gallicinism and try to get the Great Blue Blob as an ally so they can fight all our wars for us.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:21
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AJ_Impy posted:I would have loved to have seen what would have happened without the whacky and zany 'Ming invades everywhere from Iberia to Persia' stuff, and possibly without getting shattered by the Branas interregnum, but setting yourself up for a fall in EU4 tends to lead to being genuinely surprised when you fall. In defense of Rincewind: 1. I'm pretty sure Ming Frontier Army were just plain old Timurids turned Chinese. 2. You had plenty of chances to make our situation better and the Senate turned down each one of them. Sinicizing would help you maintain technological superiority over most of your enemies. Conversion from Orthodoxy could leave you with at least few allies instead of enemies. You refused each case, because you were convinced you're a superpower that doesn't just bow down to anyone.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:30
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Conversion to what, Bogomilism? That'd help us ally with all the Bogolimist states out there. Even going Sunni would have maybe gained us Lai Ang as an ally, at the cost of making the rest of Christian Europe hate our guts. As for the technological argument, that's been addressed enough. Tech has never been our problem since that one war with the Pope. It's a red herring.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:33
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BwenGun posted:Every single fight seems to be lost, which is a problem, even when we outnumber the enemy by a large degree and are attacking on decent terrain (i.e. the plains in Italy) without too bad an imbalance when it comes to generals. Part of the problem may be that our unit types aren't as good as the Chinese group ones, despite our keeping pace with them militarily. Nah, just revert the Big Blue Blob to the new reformed Orthodoxy and ally with them. The Council of Smyrna essentially recognised Gallicanism as Orthodoxy with a living saint at the head and delegitimised Living saints as per Gallicanism's reason for splitting off in the first place. We have an in-story reason for the change of heart, and frankly it's the only thing that can save us, giving us an ally powerful enough to dissuade the megablobs all around us. I reckon we could take things from the start of that update with that in place.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:33
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At the very least, after all of that, I feel like you'll let me get away with maybe turning player bonuses on? 
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Aug 18, 2014 08:51
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Agreed. If anything France would probably be feeling pretty good about itself getting Gallicanism to essentially be the new set of standards for the Orthodoxy since that means it got the Roman Empire to capitulate to it, if indirectly. Edit: There are player bonuses? Because good god if there are you should turn them on.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:53
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I had this sneaking suspicion we would end up like this. We've been screwed by the fact that we're bordered by so many expansionist powers and when we lose to one, we get set up to lose to all of them. You lose one big war, and you go into the spiral. Yeah, I don't mind if player bonuses are turned on. It's that, reload or die at this point.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:04
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sniper4625 posted:Conversion to what, Bogomilism? That'd help us ally with all the Bogolimist states out there. Even going Sunni would have maybe gained us Lai Ang as an ally, at the cost of making the rest of Christian Europe hate our guts. Even having one state on our border not being outright hostile to us would be an immense help. There is little difference between "dislike us" and "outright hate our guts" when we are weak and depleted of manpower. AJ_Impy posted:Nah, just revert the Big Blue Blob to the new reformed Orthodoxy and ally with them. The Council of Smyrna essentially recognised Gallicanism as Orthodoxy with a living saint at the head and delegitimised Living saints as per Gallicanism's reason for splitting off in the first place. We have an in-story reason for the change of heart, and frankly it's the only thing that can save us, giving us an ally powerful enough to dissuade the megablobs all around us. They now have a wildly successful religion that gives all authority to the king. Why would they convert back and have their peasants again be influenced by some old guy living in Greece? You could as well mod a swarm of meteorites bombarding all neighboring countries into oblivion and a host of angels helping Roman military. It would be as realistic and arguably more fun.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:09
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...God drat. I told you we should have converted! Although from the looks of things, Islam might have been the wise choice. ...I think Rincewind you should try your very hardest to throw yourself at an actual power for self-preservation. Also yeah, turn player bonuses on. Still, I quite like this size for the empire - with the addition of Bulgaria. Nice mid-sized country.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:09
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So we have became the Song Dynasty of Romes. Innovative and culturally vibrant, but on a clear military decline at the same time. Any chance we could invite the Da Qin Emperor to be our emperor too? They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves, and they have the real Roman NIs.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:12
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Yeah, but seriously Rince, you done hosed up. See the thing about EUIV is it's hard. There are a lot more moving parts than CK2 and if your army or economy gets wrecked, it stays wrecked. Your experience is hardly unique (please don't ask me about my Bavaria game), but you did get the rather special experience of having a bunch of gaping goons see it happen. You have my sympathy. As for what to do next, have you considered an interregnum? That is to say, spend a little time playing as someone else and see if Lucky Nation AI Rome can recover. If you really want to give the computer a fighting chance, you may want to consider taking the reins of either Da Qin or Yilang and backstabbing the other. It won't save Rome from Somalia or the other jackals, but it would at least take some of the pressure off Rome's core territories. Whatever you wind up doing, don't expect it to completely solve the problem. Rome is almost inevitably going to face another round of downsizing, but with a little luck it shouldn't be too late to save the core Byzantine territories.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:14
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I actually like seeing an LP go really badly every now and then - makes it more genuine, rather than seeing Rome in all her 'splendour' play a huge and significant role in the world. This was foreordained in a Chinese-dominated world, and the lack of allies will really start to hurt now. But, bearing all that in mind, this LP is not completely over yet. We aren't an OPM, facing annexation, and once we start getting smaller - I can imagine Russia will start helping a lot more - once the 'competing great power' modifier has been removed it will be a lot more in Russia's interests to maintain a friendly orthodox power in the region.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:17
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I don't think anyone would complain about turning player bonuses on. In fact, I think you could make the case for removing the lucky nations status from the current holders of it. At this point, Yilang and France are already about as "lucky" as it comes, and don't really need more luck.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:24
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Averrences posted:But, bearing all that in mind, this LP is not completely over yet. We aren't an OPM, facing annexation, and once we start getting smaller - I can imagine Russia will start helping a lot more - once the 'competing great power' modifier has been removed it will be a lot more in Russia's interests to maintain a friendly orthodox power in the region. Isn't it impossible for them to ally with us if "our" opinion of them is negative? And you would think it would be, if they've fought us and taken territory quite a bit.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:25
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