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 The empress sits back and her throne and sighs-- whether in relief or disappointment the crowd can't tell. The patrician who proposed sparing Hypatia begins to address the gathered citizens of Constantinople on the subject of the Empress' role in a new government. Her voice is quickly joined by three others, all expounding on the same topic. Who rallies the chamber to their side? Whose speech is loud enough to be heard amidst all the noise and confusion?  People often talk of the Golden Age of the Komnenoi. But what distinguished that age from our present one? Iouliana the Great and her allies in the Senate had a clear vision of the future, and tried to build a New Byzantium. Then, though, the Senate turned their back on that vision to chase the dead glory of Old Rome... ##Support the Patrician Philosopher  Rome is dead. But when we speak of the great ancients-- the artists, philosophers, playwrights, poets, scientists, scholars, and mathematicians who made Classical civilation such a bright light in a darkening world-- were they Romans? Did Romans build the library of Alexandria? Invent democracy? Write the Oedipus Cycle? Discover how to calculate the length of the hypotenuse of a triangle? The Romans were simply barbarians who sacked the beating heart of Hellenic civilization, crossroads of the east and west, filling Europe with pale imitations of its art and worshipping faded copies of its gods... ##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist  I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the Mandate of Heaven. Chinese political thought, however, has moved far beyond the forms of government practiced by the reactionary military dictatorships on our borders. In China-- the real China-- a new conception of rulership has begun to emerge:  For, ultimately, the Mandate of Heaven differs from the European idea of Divine Right in that it holds that emperors only deserve to rule if they rule well-- if they protect the welfare of their people. A modern state is built around the assumption that both an emperor and the people he governs have rights and responsibilities to one another, established in a constitution of written laws... ##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant  Let me tell you a story about a little family you might have heard of called the von Habsburgs. They clawed their way up through the ranks of the German nobility and did God knows what just for the privilege of calling themselves Emperor of Rome. Somewhere along the way, some lesser von Habsburg cousin was sent off to marry a Scottish princess. When this Scottish line of von Habsburgs came to rule that kingdom, it was seen as a lesser honor than the imperial dignity of the German Habsburgs. Yet what does the Habsburg Emperor rule over now? A disintegrating empire of ruins and ash. What does Queen Victoria von Habsburg rule over? All Great Britain and Ireland, protected by a fleet to rival that of Silla, Somalia, or Ayiti, with all the wealth of their colonial empire in Avalon flowing into their coffers. Who holds the greater honor? Emperors have no place in Europe. Their time has past. We must become a modern kingdom with a queen. ##Support the Moustachioed Monarchist
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Aug 19, 2014 21:04
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant
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Aug 19, 2014 21:07
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 ##Support Neo-Classicist Indeed! Hellenic greatness is apparent to all who can see! Glory to Hellas! Glory to Alexander, Socrates, and Pericles!
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Aug 19, 2014 21:08
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist Spirit of Athens, I guess.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:08
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Well, we listened to her so far. ##Support the Patrician Philosopher.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:09
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##Support None of the above Is this the best we can offer? An apologist for the long gone New Byzantines, a narrow-minded Athenian, and a couple of people who will suck up to whatever far-off Prester John tickles their fancy? Bollocks to all that. We can do better!
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Aug 19, 2014 21:11
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##Support the Moustachioed Monarchist With fancy headgear and facial hair we march onwards.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:12
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant
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Aug 19, 2014 21:12
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##Support the Patrician Philosopher.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:13
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist Burn Rome down again and again
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Aug 19, 2014 21:14
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I just want to say that I blame all of you for this. ##Support the Moustachioed Monarchist
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Aug 19, 2014 21:14
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Ancient Greece is long dead, gently caress China, and gently caress the Hapsburgs. Keep talking, hat lady! ##Support the Patrician Philosopher
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Aug 19, 2014 21:14
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##Support the Patrician Philosopher The New Byzantines will rise again!
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Aug 19, 2014 21:16
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ChrisAsmadi posted:The New Byzantines will rise again! Newer Old New Byzantines? Vintage Byzantines?
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Aug 19, 2014 21:20
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 Men and Women of Rome. Do not choose any of these people. As it has been said, they all champion failed glories of the past, or far-off tyrannies. I have another way in mind. Follow me, I say, and I shall deliver this country. I have a vision. I see in this vision a place, a crossroads of the world. From all four corners have gathered people, christians, muslims, bogomilists, even confucians, buddhists and the followers of the Tao. I see in this place Romans, Greeks, Turks, Han, Italians and more. I see them looking backwards, looking to the west and to the east. Not one of them looks to the future. I reject western monarchism, eastern empires, ancient nostalgia and failed empires all, but in doing so, I bring them together. My idea is this: we take together the Democracy of our history, the Senate of our glory, the administration and constitutionalism of the east and the power of the west to create a constitutional, democratic republic. One where the common man is guaranteed a vote and his rights, the administration works towards the good of all, the army is the shield of the people and the senate a new body, not of old, forgotten families, but of the common blood. I reject all these options and choose my own. -Alexius Mars NewMars fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 21:21
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist This seems like the silliest choice, and therefore the best. If any of the others win it feels like Discordianism was wasted. Why do all that and then let people vote to be boring?
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Aug 19, 2014 21:21
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant For the Republic and all that jazz. Just cause it's a Chinese concept doesn't mean we gotta hate on it. Although I have to say I'm a little unclear on the options presented, particularly the first and second ones. Does going back to the New Byzantine thing just mean more of the same? What could we expect to be different? Similarly, option two sounds like a Hellenic restoration, but what would that entail?
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Aug 19, 2014 21:21
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant. Social influence for the lower classes too, yes please.TheMcD posted:It's the new Stupid Newbie. Ah, that makes rather more sense. I didn't think this debate had gotten heated enough for someone to go haring off on an avatar buying spree.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:28
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant A Kingdom? A return to "Greek" routes? Please. This nation deserves better than either of those routes. Meanwhile a Constitution will bring forth accountability for everyone within the nation, from sovereign to peasant. The Patrician Philosopher's idea may prove more convincing if she could clarify it better; are you saying we become Byzantium, ma'am? Are you advocating for a new, "stronger" Senate or something reduced to an idea box for the Empress? VVV That's a lady. StrifeHira fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 21:29
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant. Seems like a good plan. He's got grey hair and everything.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:30
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## Support the Scholarly Civil Servant While I'm not the greatest fan of China, I can see that they have a number of good ideas that are worth e;^^ I'm p sure that's a lady
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Aug 19, 2014 21:30
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist
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Aug 19, 2014 21:33
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant
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Aug 19, 2014 21:34
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##Support the Moustachioed Monarchist
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Aug 19, 2014 21:35
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist
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Aug 19, 2014 21:35
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist
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Aug 19, 2014 21:35
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As tempting as the Neo-classicist is, their platform is all nostalgia and no substance. So I'm going with Edit: In fact this idea is practically the same as Alexius Mars - ##Support Alexius Mars Not So Fast fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 21:39
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant
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Aug 19, 2014 21:41
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Not So Fast posted:As tempting as the Neo-classicist is, their platform is all nostalgia and no substance. If that is what you wish, then vote for my idea. For I wish to revive the rights of the citizen and let him be involved in his government, where the failure of the chinese option is found. Under the mandate of heaven, the poor man has rights, but no true freedom.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:41
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##None of the above!
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Aug 19, 2014 21:44
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##Support the Scholarly Civil ServantNewMars posted:If that is what you wish, then vote for my idea. For I wish to revive the rights of the citizen and let him be involved in his government, where the failure of the chinese option is found. Under the mandate of heaven, the poor man has rights, but no true freedom. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rincewind isn't going to let us make up our own options after what happened to Flamboyant Schemers.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:45
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## Support the Nostalgic Neo-Classicist The Greek people have led the empire since the time of Romulus Augustulus. We must create a truly Hellenic nation, unified with one language and faith.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:49
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GoatLord posted:##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant Especially in the Discordian version of these votes, where the whole point is everyone trying to keep up with the chaos in the Senate chambers after the situation spins out the Senate's control. (This is also why I'm not putting little gameplay effect blurbs beneath the options or answering questions about what any of the choices mean)
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Aug 19, 2014 21:49
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Aww, damnit. Oh, very well. I shall support the scholarly civil servant, then. At least they guarantee a constitution.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:50
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To be frank, that's because those ideas were dumb as all hell. A democratic republic is at least sensible and in keeping with Roman History. (that said, I hope we don't get bogged down in defining a constitution if we do go down this road, that was one of the worst aspects of that thread). Edit: Fair enough, throwing my vote behind ##Support the scholarly civil servant.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:51
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Rincewind posted:Especially in the Discordian version of these votes, where the whole point is everyone trying to keep up with the chaos in the Senate chambers after the situation spins out the Senate's control. (This is also why I'm not putting little gameplay effect blurbs beneath the options or answering questions about what any of the choices mean) Perfectly fine, we'll just do some of the spinning. My vote stands.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:51
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My hope is that we can sneak something about electing the Empress in the constitution somewhere.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:53
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Rincewind posted:(This is also why I'm not putting little gameplay effect blurbs beneath the options or answering questions about what any of the choices mean) Ah, well fair enough then. My vote remains unchanged.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:56
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Not So Fast posted:
Echoing this hardcore. Maybe a single session where we broad strokes it down the line, but let's not get caught up too heavily in that minutia.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:58
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## Support the Scholarly Civil Servant Hopefully this is not a vote for tepid constitutional monarchy, but even that's a cut above the rest of this ideological riff-raff.
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