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I've never seen the specific Byzantine reconquest event chain that Project Balance adds (which is where the "war for the coast" came from), so this is pretty neat to see.
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Jan 21, 2014 15:27
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You can sort of see how Komnene's claims of being partial might be taken as bollocks from that excerpt.  An interesting aside regarding the administration of the empire; Komnene says that Alexios had pretty much left it all in the hands of his mother, Anna Dalassene, to the point where Komnene says that Dalassene might well have been called an empress herself. She wanted to retire to a monastery but with her son shoving all administrative responsibilities to her she couldn't.
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Jan 21, 2014 16:36
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TheMcD posted:I've never seen the specific Byzantine reconquest event chain that Project Balance adds (which is where the "war for the coast" came from), so this is pretty neat to see.
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Jan 21, 2014 22:19
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JT Jag posted:Project Balance just incorporated the Byzantine Themata mod, didn't it? More like Project Balance and a whole lot of other mods just got shoved into one compact package. It's called the "Historical Immersion Project"
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Jan 21, 2014 22:31
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JGBeagle posted:More like Project Balance and a whole lot of other mods just got shoved into one compact package. It's called the "Historical Immersion Project" I started this save right before they all got rolled into HIM, although I'm using most of what became HIM, so I'm not sure which module that came from.
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Jan 21, 2014 22:32
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Rincewind posted:I started this save right before they all got rolled into HIM, although I'm using most of what became HIM, so I'm not sure which module that came from. Just be glad you started it before you had to use SWMH's map  .
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Jan 21, 2014 22:35
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JGBeagle posted:Just be glad you started it before you had to use SWMH's map Well, from what I understand the HIM installer still lets you pick which modules to use, so you aren't marrying yourself to SWMH if you use it.
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Jan 21, 2014 22:38
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The "Decayed Theme System" is listed amongst the conditions for raising types of crown authority in HIP, so I assume the Byzantine Themata mod is incorporated somehow.Rincewind posted:Well, from what I understand the HIM installer still lets you pick which modules to use, so you aren't marrying yourself to SWMH if you use it. JT Jag fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 22:41
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I should remember more about the Theme System, considering I wrote a 20 page research paper on it for a class once, but I don't remember much at all. Can anyone explain it a bit?
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Jan 21, 2014 22:46
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Night10194 posted:I should remember more about the Theme System, considering I wrote a 20 page research paper on it for a class once, but I don't remember much at all. Can anyone explain it a bit? Basically, it was the Byzantine feudal system. Each province had a number of Themes, including Mexican fiesta, Anything But Clothes, Rainforest Cafe, and so on. Each week, a different Theme got to host a party in the capital. This system began after the civil wars of 872, which culminated in the Third Treaty of Antioch, establishing "bow-tie Tuesdays." By the end, the system was greatly simplified. The theme of every week was "Turkish Delight" (All I remember is that the Themes were like the estates of the landed military aristocracy in Anatolia? And that said aristocracy wasted most of its time struggling with the civil service for control of Imperial policy, weakening the empire's ability to defend itself)
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Jan 21, 2014 23:03
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Night10194 posted:I should remember more about the Theme System, considering I wrote a 20 page research paper on it for a class once, but I don't remember much at all. Can anyone explain it a bit?
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Jan 21, 2014 23:03
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The core of the theme system is that land is doled out by the military governor of the district directly to peasants in exchange for military service. This annoys the major landowners, because land held by peasants isn't land held by them... technically the peasants aren't allowed to dispose of the land (after all, the military governor is administering it on behalf of the emperor) but often this restriction isn't enforced, leading to military weakness as the peasant-soldiers are no longer able to afford their arms and armor. Pro-military emperors try and roll back the transactions, while pro-landowner emperors encourage the process, leading to the situation in 1065, when Romanos Diogenes allegedly raises the themes only to find them equipped with pitchforks and staves, instead of the spear/ringmail combo they were required to own.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:42
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Of course, CK2 mostly just treats themes like a fancy Byzantine word for duchy, since of course the Byzantine Empire works pretty much the same way as medieval France or whatever.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:46
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von Metternich posted:Basically, it was the Byzantine feudal system. Each province had a number of Themes, including Mexican fiesta, Anything But Clothes, Rainforest Cafe, and so on. Each week, a different Theme got to host a party in the capital. This system began after the civil wars of 872, which culminated in the Third Treaty of Antioch, establishing "bow-tie Tuesdays." By the end, the system was greatly simplified. The theme of every week was "Turkish Delight" You are a wonderful person. This is wonderful 
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Jan 22, 2014 07:09
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Rincewind posted:
From the first page, but hopefully relevant due to modtalk - what (non-GOT) mod lets you get these duels? The only one I ever found (updated duel engine) literally does not work at all.
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Jan 22, 2014 12:09
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Flesnolk posted:From the first page, but hopefully relevant due to modtalk - what (non-GOT) mod lets you get these duels? The only one I ever found (updated duel engine) literally does not work at all. The duel engine is implemented within Project Balance.
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Jan 22, 2014 13:20
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This is excellent, and you should feel excellent.
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Jan 22, 2014 23:22
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PART FIVE: Citation for Bravery (1090-1094)  Komnenian Reconstruction[edit] From Vicipedia, the free encyclopedia The Komnenian Reconstruction is a periodization of Byzantine history used to describe the years of the reign of Emperor Alexios I Komnenos immediately following the defeat of the Sultanate of Rum in 1090. It is generally characterized[by whom?] as a period of peace and administrative and governmental reforms, although the empire did participate in several small-scale conflicts. Aftermath of the war with Rum Alexios' immediate task following the reconquest of the coast of Asia Minor was administering the regained territory. In many cases, Suleyman himself had yet to set up adequate administration for his conquests, forcing Alexios to establish new themes.   In other cases, however, Alexios was able to assume control of former Rum government functions, simply assigning a loyal Doux responsibility over the Turkish state apparatus.  With the empire at peace and the recovered Anatolian coast under the administration of loyal new Douxes, the recent period of unrest in Bulgaria ended, with the Bulgarians once more pledging allegiance to the Byzantine crown.[citation needed]  War in the West In November 1090, the Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV formally requested Constantinople's aid in putting down the revolt of Count Hartmann of St. Gallen.  Hartmann's revolt was a total disaster for St. Gallen, as not a single other member of the Holy Roman Empire joined him in rebellion against the emperor. Imperial troops sacked St. Gallen before Alexios' troops could even board their ships at Constantinople, making their participation in the war essentially a formality. In her Alexiad, the historian Iouliana Komnene described Byzantium's support for Henry as an important symbolic renewal of the alliance between the two emperors. However, it can also be seen[weasel words as a violation of roman sovereignty by overbearing German tyrants.[citation needed]  Relations with the nobles  While Alexios was briefly preoccupied with the war in St. Gallen, Doux Nikephoros of Dyrrachion, still under house arrest in a Constantinople townhouse for his participation in the Doukas Revolt, organized his various holdings in Bulgaria into a formal theme. Alexios was displeased that this reform was made behind his back, but let it stand to avoid reigniting unrest among the Bulgarians. In the June 1091, Alexios ordered a grand tournament in Constantinople to celebrate his victories.  He marked the occasion by releasing one of the more trustworthy Douxes imprisoned after the Doukas revolt, improving relations between him and the remaining Douxes and Doukessas. Throughout the remainder of his reign, Alexios would release many of the other ex-rebel nobles if another lord or lady known to be loyal vouched for them.  Alexios' standing among the nobles was further improved when he placed second in the tournament's melee, surpassed only by Innokentios, the lowborn marshal of Crete.  Alexios followed up his successful participation in the grand tournament by appearing in a chariot race at the Hippodrome of Constantinople, racing for the Blues.    The chariot racing-obsessed people of Constantinople enjoyed the novelty of seeing their emperor on the tracks, and while Alexios and the Blues lost to the Greens, the Alexiad observes that this was proof that Alexios was willing to race honestly rather than use his power as emperor to attempt to rig the outcome. Pilgrimage In 1092, Alexios had a vision of God while staring out at the Sea of Marmara.[dubious - discuss] The next day, he announced his intention to go on a pilgrimage to Antioch.  Antioch was currently occupied by Armenian Miaphysites. Despite the heretical status of his church[neutrality is disuputed, he continued to permit Orthodox pilgrims to come and go as they pleased.  During his voyage to Antioch, Alexios demonstrated a keen sense of curiosity about the sights and people he met, welcoming the change of pace from nearly a decade spent fighting in Asia Minor, Greece, and the Balkans.   He left Antioch with a renewed commitment to scholarship and learning.  Dynastic issues According to the Alexiad, this newfound respect for scholarship was reflected in the emperor assuming personal responsibility for the education of his son Meletios, heir the empire after the death of his son Theodoros in 1087.  In 1093, the young Empress Cecilia af Orkneyjar, mother of Meletios and Ioulianna Komnene, died of pneumonia.  He quickly arranged a new marriage with a Norwegian noblewoman. Empress Jaddvor, unlike many of the other dynastic marriages arranged by Alexios, offered no powerful alliances to the Byzantine Empire. Instead, she was chosen mostly for her skills as an advisor to the state, complementing what Alexios saw as his shortcomings.     Later that year, Alexios again raced for the Blues. However, contemporary records record some sort of disturbance at the Hippodrome, and Alexios apparently never race again. Some historians[who?] find the omission of this incident from the Alexiad notable. The Rashka War The principality of Duklja had been a thorn in the Byzantine Empire's side since the heroic struggle of Stefan Vojislav threw off the shackles of Greek hegemony in 1040s AD.[neutrality is disuputed] Alexius still too cowardly to confront strong Duklja state head on, instead presses claim of traitor Ioannes of Naissos on trustworthy ally of Duklja Rashka.  at Battle of Cavtat brave and glorious Dukjla armies win total victory, killing ten thousand byzantiny pigs [neutrality is disuputed]  however stink pig emperor alex is adviced by crafty eunuchs [neutrality is disuputed]  THE BRAVE AND GLORIOUS EASTERN ROMAN EMPEROR ALEXIUS COMNENUS RESTORED ORDER TO THe rebellious province of Rascia, the shield behind which the cowardly traitors of Duklja cowered in their cowardice of the imperium romanum orientalis. A landmark in the history of medieval Rome and the keystone of Alexius' reign.[undue weight? – discuss] stupid stink byzantiny pigs steal rashka clay [neutrality is disuputed] sstink byzantiny duklja number 1 contry REMOVE GYRO from dukjla clay [neutrality is disuputed]  Governmental reforms In 1094, Alexios convened the Byzantine Senate, which had been declining in stature since the seventh century and had many of its remaining powers stripped during the reigns of Basil I and Leo VI, appointed new senators to bring their membership up to four hundred, and ordered that a new Byzantine Senate house be built in Constantinople. In her Alexiad, Ioulianna Komnene attributes this move to Alexios ongoing scholarship of classical antiquity. However, modern historians see the promotion of the Senate as an attempt to create a political counterweight to the douxes and doukassas in charge of the themes in an effort to prevent another civil war.  Alexios carefully specified that this new body would be mostly advisory in nature, but they would occasionally be called upon to vote on matters of import to the empire. He stressed their advisory role, however, implying that being in a position to have the emperor's ear to give advice in the first place was a great power in and of itself. Developments in the east Meanwhile, a power struggle was taking place among the Seljuks, precipitated by Suleyman's death in the Rum-Byzantine War. The Alexiad indicates that he died in battle with Alexios. Modern historians, however, believe he might have died of natural causes.  The second sultan of Rum, Kilij Arslan Seljuk, was mostly known for being forced to sign a humiliating peace treaty with the Byzantines, ceding most of the Anatolian coast to the empire. The Seljuk emperor Ahmad was extremely displeased with the development; while Rum itself had been thoroughly beaten by Byzantium and the Holy Roman Empire, there were still many Seljuk armies in the field and attempting to relieve the beleaguered Sultan of Rum when word reached the Seljuk capital at Esfahan. Over the next four years, relations between Sultan Ahmad and his counterpart in Rum continued to deteriorate, until the Seljuk sultan finally decided that the weakened Rum and its discredited leader had outlived their usefulness as a buffer state between the Seljuk and Byzantine empires  In a war conducted so swiftly it was over before word had even reached Constantinople that it had broken out, Ahmad successfully claimed the throne of Rum and deposed Kilij Arslan.  The former territories of Rum were DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS poop[citation needed]
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Jan 23, 2014 07:13
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Seljuks will bring pain and death to stinking Byzantiny pigs.
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Jan 23, 2014 07:24
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Not realistic, didn't degenerate into untranslated Serbian towards the end.
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Jan 23, 2014 07:34
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This was the best update. The "remove gyros" line had me in stitches.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:02
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 SENATE  : So! I've built you geezers a fancy new Senate house so you can stop squatting in the Imperial Palace, and now it's time to demonstrate I wouldn't have been better off betting all that coin on the Blues instead.: Of course, it's also been about oh... let's see, Augustus became emperor in 27 BC, it's 1094 now so that's... 1,121 years since you last had to use your brains for anything. And you're the new Senate Constantine convened when he built this place, so you've never used your brains for anything.: Anyway, I found some pretty wild scrolls in the library I seized from the Doukessa of Crete when I threw her in jail, so it'll take a lot for me to let a bunch of Senators get within spitting distance of actual power. So let's start slow, and see if I can trust you morons with anything. : Tell them, Daddy!: I was getting to it, sweetheart. That's my daughter, Iouliana. Three years old, and probably already smarter than the four hundred of you put together. Anyway, Iouliana told me that that big two-headed eagle we've been putting on all our flags? It's the Palaiologos family cipher! I didn't believe it-- especially since from the foundation of the empire to now, there's never been a Palaoilogos emperor, and there's certainly no reason to expect there will be one in the future-- but I had some people look into it and, stone the crows, she was right! Anyway, that rear end in a top hat, the Doux of Epirus, is a Palaiologos, so we won't be having any of that on our flags and shields.: My first thought is to replace it with a simple Chi Ro. Come out here and show them your flag, honey! : I also made a diorama of what the year 1066 might have looked like if a nefarious time-travelling Palaoilogos hadn't gone back and replaced all our flags! : (With barely concealed alarm) Er, yes. Thank you, dear. : Anyway, I happen to like it-- nice, simple, recognizable, brings to mind the good ol' days without being encrusted in a bunch of pagan bric a brac or obsolete Latin slogans. Latin! Like Greek hasn't been the language of civilization since, well, since forever.: But I suppose it's still a tad old-fashioned, isn't it? So I'm giving all of you a chance to try to do better than that. Or maybe just tell me my flag is already great, you can do that too. Still, make some flags and I'll let you vote on 'em. Unless you put an aquila or "SPQR" on them, in which case I'll have you executed for apostasy.: Also, in your capacity as an advisory body: You might be aware that this just happened:: Now, the plan was to just wait after long enough had passed after our truce with Rum that we wouldn't look like assholes when we call up Kaiser Hank and the gang to declare war and take some more of their stuff, but suddenly that's out the window and we share a lengthy land frontier with the most powerful empire in the east. So if you want to prove you can give some advice as an advisory body, try giving some advice.: Do that right and I might even let you vote on something next time.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:06
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First of all, flags are silly. Utterly frivolous. The Chi Ro is perfectly acceptable to me. No need for excess flash or spectacle. As for the Seljuks.... I find that the best way to take on a large Empire is to be a larger Empire. We could rally support and try to reintegrate any of the independent Orthodox states that are in the region. Or perhaps we could try to conquer some provinces from the Cumanians or whatever is the north. Point is, we need more troops, from some source or another. Failing that, the only option that I can think of is to sow discord amongst the ranks of the Seljuks, wait for a civil war, and then start picking off territory in Anatoly. Either way, wait until we're big enough to handle this on our own, and then have the Germans there when the Seljuks inevitably bring in outside assistance.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:16
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The Chi Ro flag is sufficient and excellent, and a fine way to thwart the plots of time travelers. As I am an incompetent at all matters of state, I have no actual advice on the Seljuks.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:20
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Flagchat: I have no historical basis or anything for this, I just thought the colours looked pretty.  This one's a bit communist-y, but so were the original Roman flags I guess.  EDIT: The red symbolises the clay that was unjustly stolen from glorious srjba Thanqol fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 08:51
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Βασιλεύς τε Ἐκκλησία τε Δῆμος τῶν Ῥωμαίων seems like a fine slogan. Or ΒΕΔΡ if we must shorten so glorious a title.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:58
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Most I'd say to toss on the Chi-Ro flag is a laurel wreath around it and maybe give it a fancy gold border. As for the Seljuks, you can fight them offensively or defensively. Offensively will probably need more troops than we currently have and require the assistance of our German allies. If you can close off the border between our lands and theirs near you'll have a smaller border to worry about. Defensively will be trying to funnel them onto Anatolia and pick off smaller parties where you can. Main armies seem to be located to the East, so try and pick off what you can in the former Rum while they march westward. Do we have any idea on their naval strength? Because I'm a tad wary of Cyprus' defenses.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:59
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The Chi Rho is a proud symbol, but one I fear may lack the imperial majesty required of the arms of the Roman Empire. On its own, at least. What I suggest is that we go by a true symbol of antiquity, the one proudly used by Constantine the Great himself: the labarum.  The labarum, of course, was Constantine's personal military standard, a symbol of the might of the Empire at its peak. The only question here is how one might go about turning it into a banner for the empire. My suggestion is approximately this:  If anyone wants to take a better shot at this idea feel free. I think I kind of mangled it. edit: I decided to put a few more minutes into it, here's a much improved version. 
JT Jag fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 09:06
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Expand where you can, like into Cilicia right there, and start destabilising the Seljuks however you can. Sow discord, stab rulers and claimants, etc. Flag... what Lag said.
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Jan 23, 2014 09:34
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Inciting dissent in the neighbours would be the easiest way to continue our eastward growth. Wars of opportunity until we have worn the Seljuk armies down to a managable level. Keep our alliance with the HRE going as long as we can. And try and keep our empire focused on the neighbours rather than getting any more bright ideas about succession by force of arms. As for the Flagchat, Something along the lines of Mr Jag's suggestion looks pretty neat.
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Jan 23, 2014 09:57
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All right might as well put words into pictures: New flag idea. Chi-Rho with laurel crown, gold border. Though I'm liking that labarum idea too, maybe throw that on? As for our enemy:  Operation Rip-n-Tear, we get the Germans to hop on over for the war as we try to cover the northern areas, smashing into any armies on Anatolia and securing the border before facing the brunt of the Seljuk armies alongside the Germans. Wildcard being any silly Crusades called for Jerusalem or somewhere else.  Operation Anatolian-Funnel, pick off the smaller armies and trap the main Seljuk forces on Anatolia, surrounding them and wearing them down, making sure they don't try and cross the sea to Constantinople. German assistance appreciated but not as necessary, but gotta watch out for them starting other wars. Need to make sure they don't try any tricks with naval strategies in either case, so keep on the lookout for their ships.
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Jan 23, 2014 10:12
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Regarding the Seljuk enemy, the best method for dealing with them is sure stab the poo poo out of the Sultan, followed by kick in the heads of rebelling Seljuk vassals and stab some more and make the Turkish realms a never-ending hell of civil wars.
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Jan 23, 2014 13:05
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While I can't claim expertise on the more trivial matters in our agenda, I will lend my full support to the suggestion of the noble Senator Jag - to wit, the Chi Rho and Labarum.
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Jan 23, 2014 13:19
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Being that we are the Komnenoi it would be a disgrace if our banner lacked our dynasty's monogram, K.
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Jan 23, 2014 13:21
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YF-23 posted:Being that we are the Komnenoi it would be a disgrace if our banner lacked our dynasty's monogram, K. Flag needs to have KQR on it, for "King/Komnenos Of Rome". Because who cares about a cruddy senate or the inbred yokel people?
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Jan 23, 2014 17:51
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Chi Rho is fine. Rocking it old school.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:13
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Chi Rho works, but it really lacks the over the top details that a lot of Coats of Arms would have had by this point. Add a lion or an eagle or something with more scepters and weapons than it could plausibly carry, and then we'll have a flag worth of the time period.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:35
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Ofaloaf posted:Regarding the Seljuk enemy, the best method for dealing with them is sure stab the poo poo out of the Sultan, followed by kick in the heads of rebelling Seljuk vassals and stab some more and make the Turkish realms a never-ending hell of civil wars. This man knows what's up.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:46
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Obviously we should conquer westward until we have a direct land border with our fellow "Roman Empire".
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Jan 23, 2014 19:48
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:34 |
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I like the basic Chi-Ro, and I would recommend absorbing the Armenian and Crusader (Edessa?) if you can. And in any case, the death of one Seljuk Sultan could spare the lives of many of your soldiers and peasants. Stab him until the Seljuk territories explode in rebellion.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:55
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