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##Vote C! We may be enemies, but we are not poor sports. edit: gently caress
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Feb 14, 2015 02:40
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Magni posted:Romeromeromeromeromeromerome I'm not sure if you're being serious, but the Union of Rome was a major communist power in Wiz's Hohenzollern LP, and occupied the same role we do, basically, Communist Byzantine Empire in Italy, the Balkans, and Anatolia.
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Feb 14, 2015 02:42
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The UoR was a Stalinist dictatorship though, whereas Rincewind has modded in the option to make ours more of a feel good Syndicalist Democracy. I don't think any state of that sort has actually existed in real life (though the Mensheviks and others have tried for it), but different timelines have different rules for what's "possible."
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Feb 14, 2015 02:55
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Duckbag posted:The UoR was a Stalinist dictatorship though, whereas Rincewind has modded in the option to make ours more of a feel good Syndicalist Democracy. I don't think any state of that sort has actually existed in real life (though the Mensheviks and others have tried for it), but different timelines have different rules for what's "possible." I'm still not even 100% clear on what a bourgeois dictatorship really (Pinochet's Chile i guess?) is and there's like 10 of them in this timeline.
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Feb 14, 2015 03:17
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Tulip posted:I'm still not even 100% clear on what a bourgeois dictatorship really (Pinochet's Chile i guess?) is and there's like 10 of them in this timeline. It's the Republican Party.
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Feb 14, 2015 03:30
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a baseball company bought the government of germany e: it was a hostile take-over
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Feb 14, 2015 05:21
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Tulip posted:I'm still not even 100% clear on what a bourgeois dictatorship really (Pinochet's Chile i guess?) is The United States Of America circa 2015  
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Feb 14, 2015 05:27
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  Evgenia Exteberria, First Chairman of the Byzantine Commune Inaugurated October 28th, 1884  The Athens Commune  : It's difficult to even comprehend just how far we've come in so short a time. One year ago, it was still business as usual in an uncaring Republic paid for, purchased, and subverted by a tiny stratum of capitalists sitting at the apex of society, with the rest of us doomed to abject poverty. Any hope we might have cherished in our hearts that things could ever change seemed extraordinarily remote— the cold twinkling of stars in the inky depths of space, trillions of miles away.: One month ago, we were at the vanguard of one of the most extraordinary revolutions in history, but victory was far from assured. The bourgeois officers of the Old Republic's army lurked in Belgrade and elsewhere, weighing their options. Unsubstantiated rumors of treasonous plans among counter-revolutionary elements of the Red Guards for a permanent dictatorship circulated. All over Byzantium, there was chaos, uncertainty, and-- yes, tragically but necessarily, bloodshed. Yet all around me, in my long march from Athens to Byzantion, I saw something new— hope, not secretly cultivated deep in the heart, but an open, joyous hope animating the collective spirit of the Byzantine people. : Now, today here we are— the brightest of moons illuminating the darkest of nights. I am so, so proud of all of you. Finally, finally there is a state that truly realizes what it means to have the Mandate of the People.: From the very instant I called upon the communes of Byzantium to down their tools and declare a general strike, I was struck by the music of the revolution. From Athens to Constantinople, from the shadow of the Parthenon to the House of Golden Horn, song filled the air— songs of revolutions present—https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1VP1EEhYuE -and revolutions past. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pZHXr4FE44 : We have long been a Janus-headed nation— one face boldly gazing into the future, the other always cognizant of our inconceivably ancient history. The myriad peoples of Byzantium all share a revolutionary heritage— the Solon and Athenians overturning the Draconic code and building the world's first democracy— the overthrow of Tarquin the Proud by the old Romans— the economic justice sought by the brothers Gracchi— the Peasant's War of the Deluge reigning in an imperial throne grown despotic— the revolutions of Juno Koca and Noor Sallajer. All of these revolutions were ultimately imperfect— but each and every one of them was a step into the future, a bridge from ancient tyranny to communal democracy.: But the Byzantine revolutionary tradition is not the only one. The modern Republic was born in Japan when the commoners suffering in the constant wars between imperial royalty and a military aristocracy said enough was enough and dissolved both classes entirely. The Golden Revolution chased the spectre of absolutism from the British Isles forever. Peasant revolutionaries brought down the Qin dynasty. St. Greger Dunin led Central Europe to freedom from foreign occupation. Even in France, the fire of liberty was kept lit by the Jacobins through the most vicious of Valois-Vexin persecutions.: We are the first to take this next step into the bright future where freedom from want joins freedom of speech, freedom of worship, and freedom from fear as a prerequisite to true democracy. But we will not be the last— in fact, many Communist parties, unions, and other groups tirelessly working to bring communal rule to their home countries are in attendance.: Because, ha ha, it wouldn't be much of an International otherwise, huh?INTERNATIONAL DELEGATIONS OOC: Want to represent the Communist Party delegation of another country at the First International? Well, now you can! If you want, claim a country, name your party, and set its policies. This will then go into the mod, replacing whatever boring party I had there before. If that country goes communist, your party will get to rule that country! I mean, obviously you can't actually control it or anything, but you can RP about it really obnoxiously, or whatever. Here is what the Victoria 2 wiki has to say about Communist party policies, but a lot of that doesn't really apply to ByzLP communists. So here are your options for each political policy: Trade Policy: Free trade or protectionism. Protectionism would be more common, I guess, but we did just vote to maintain free Baseball trade or whatever. Economic Policy: Planned economy. That's it. Otherwise your party would just be indistinguishable from a V2 socialist party except for a slightly darker red splotch, right? Religious Policy: In vanilla V2, communist parties are almost always atheist. This should probably not be the case in ByzMod! Your party could favor secularism, pluralism, or maybe even moralism. Religious policies are pretty infamous for having { #no effect }, but they matter a lot in terms of flavor IMHO. Citizenship Policy: Full citizenship is pretty baked into the Byzantine socialist/communist tradition, and it probably is in yours too. But maybe your communist party is connected to your nation's nationalist movement? If you really want to, you could favor limited citizenship, or residency if you want to be rear end in a top hat communists. War Policy: This can be all over the place, since the question of when violence and war is justified is one of the most contentious among the left of ByzWorld. You might be Pacifist, Anti-military, pro-military, or even jingoist. Optionally you can also make a 93 x 64 logo for your party, which will replace whatever your country's communist flag was before in the mod. I'm going to make a few exceptions, though:  China, because like half the communist flags I made are based on theirs so if it's different the world will probably spin wildly off its axis and fall into the sun, or something. Also, there are some countries that already have cool flags that other people made earlier in the thread, so those should probably take precedence for countries that have 'em. Here are some transparent images that might be useful for flag-making (god knows I recycled the hell out of them):    You'll be able to register parties throughout the First International, not just on Day One-- I just wanted to get the ball rolling on this ASAP. Anyway, our own party's policies will be selected based on how we vote on other related issues during the International. Although probably one of the regular socialist parties will win the next election anyway, oh well. So, without further ado, let's get on with the voting! There are two different formats for decisions at the International— votes and debates. Votes are, well, votes. You vote on stuff. Debates are where you're asked an open-ended question, and the most well-argued, flavorful, cool, or whatever option will just emerge from the conversation or just be arbitrarily chosen by me. : We must carefully consider what is necessary to build the future we deserve without senselessly destroying or dogmatically following the past. And so, the first question I call upon the International to consider is this: what is to become of Constantinople?VOTE 1: SHOULD THE CAPITAL OF THE BYZANTINE COMMUNE BE IN CONSTANTINOPLE OR ATHENS?  Athens is the birthplace the Commune, and the crucible of the new democracy that we're... you know... Athens Commune... Byzantine Commune... I... okay, look, realtalk? Remember how in the Containment War China smashed our defensive lines in Anatolia and crossed the Sea of Marmara at the Hellespont and occupied Constantinople? Remember how the Theodosian Walls weren't exactly doing much to stop modern artillery? Remember how the war was pretty much lost right then and there? Yeah. Yeah. I've been in the poo poo. Greece is much more defensible in the sorts of wars we can expect to fight at this point, since the days of a hundred thousand French soldiers appearing over the horizon are long gone. ##Support the Practical Red Guard to move our capital to Athens.  The strategic location of Constantinople isn't simply military expedience. Byzantion is the gateway between east and west, where Europa and Asia meet. It is home to one of the most diverse populations in all the cities of the world, a vital center of trade. It was the stronghold of the Byzantine peoples in our darkest hours— the site of our greatest triumphs— the City of the World's Desire. For thousands of years, it has been one of the great junctions of Eurasian civilization. It is what makes us Byzantines. ##Support the Captain of the Greens to keep our capital in Constantinople. Probable game effects: As far as I know, where our capital is in Victoria 2 doesn't matter a whole lot, except that your opponent gets lots of war score for occupying it. An event to relocate our capital will involve paying some money, and may have other effects depending on what else happens at the International. I guess it would also decide which baseball team we root for? Athens and Constantinople are both pretty terrible, though. VOTE 2: REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF VOTE 1, SHOULD CONSTANTINOPLE BE RENAMED?  Frankly, I'm surprised Noor Sallajer never got around to it. No man or woman shall conspire to restore the Empire of Rome, but being ruled from a city branded with the name of a Roman Emperor was perfectly acceptable to the Old Republic. Constantine was a monster, anyway— he killed half his family, poisoned the soul of Christianity by forcing it to fit into the mold of an imperial state religion, and left the empire to his three vile sons with no consideration given to the welfare of the people. Or perhaps we should name all our cities after the tyrants of our past? "Dracopolis" would be a fine name for Athens. We'll take a page from Commodus' book and rename Rome "Colonia Lucia Annia Commodiana"! Ankara-- Yaroslavograd! Florence-- Theodora! Venice-- Aurelia (named for the bad Aurelian, not the first one, of course) Might as well! That's the message we're already sending by trying to build socialism in the shadow of the dominate. ##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend, Probably to rename Constantiople based on the results of DEBATE 1 below.  Constantine was, in his own way, a revolutionary. None would deny Christianity's origins as a religion of resistance against the pagan empire of Rome— even a cursory examination of the Gospels shows how radical Jesus' political program was. Constantine brought an end to centuries of religious persecution and martyrdom and embraced a faith in which all men and women were equal in the eyes of God. Constantine's religious policy was one of pluralism and tolerance— it is folly to lay the later crimes of the likes of Theodosius I or the False Saint Valeria at his feet. Was Constantine perfect? Of course not— he was still an emperor, and as we know no man reigns innocently. He fought, he killed, he made war, he ruled as a tyrant. Yet a deeply flawed man is still capable of great good, and we all have the capacity to atone for our sins. ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople to keep Constantinople Probable game effects: None, except whatever influence this vote has on the Athens Commune's party policies DEBATE 1: If you supported Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend, Probably in Vote 2 and Constantinople gets the works, what should Constantinople be renamed? (If you supported the Ecumenical Patriarch, we already know what you think Constantinople should be named.  )
Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 05:45
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Vote 1: Our capital must be Athens, the beating heart of the Revolution! Vote 2: Fie on old Constantine! That city is Byzantion of old!
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Feb 14, 2015 05:50
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Vote 1: ##Support the Captain of the Greens Vote 2: ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
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Feb 14, 2015 05:57
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Oh, and if anybody wants to ask how some particular country is doing before they make a party, let me know.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:01
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drat, these are hard votes!
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Feb 14, 2015 06:01
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 Heraklieos Cyrahzax, Director-General of the Byzantine Communes of Africa There is really only one option here: the Queen of Cities must remain our capital, as it has been since Constantine! How can there be a Byzantine Commune where Byzantium itself is but the second city? No! If we are to be Byzantines, then our heart and soul must stay in a Constantinople finally perfected by Communist virtue! Anything else is a betrayal of who we are, and who we hope to become! ##Support the Captain of the Greens As for renaming the City? Why would we? Constantine was no saint, true, but our state and souls were irrevocably affected by his reign: would the Commune exist without him? Would the Byzantine peoples? I think not. The past cannot be washed away: we must never forget its mistakes, lest we repeat them, even as we must always remember the glories! Why didn't Sallejar change the name, hmm? I wonder. ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch OOC: Rincewind, would our African colonies have a separate Party? I have a few ideas on that. Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 06:01
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 Thordan made history during a league game in 1882 against the Trebizond Tricksters. The Tricksters, eager to leave after a 9-0 defeat at home, ran off the field towards their clubhouse through the boos of the home fans. Watching them sprint, Thordan declared: "Look lads, the Tricksters are off to Loki's Room!" Modern sports historians agree that this is the origin of the term "locker room". Leave Constantinople?!? Rename Constantinople?!? This is the home of every Varangian going back a thousand years! The people of this city are good, hardworking people, who deserve a good game of baseball and the respect earned by living in the greatest city on earth. I love this city and having traveled to Athens to play the Argonauts, let me tell you now that Athens is no Constantinople. ##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
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Feb 14, 2015 06:02
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Vote 1: ##Support the Captain of the Greens Vote 2: ##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend Debate 1: Rename Constantinople to Cosmopolis
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Feb 14, 2015 06:04
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##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend Rename to Sallajinople
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Feb 14, 2015 06:21
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##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend, Probably Rename Constantinople to Byzantion!
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Feb 14, 2015 06:25
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Chief Savage Man posted:##Support the Captain of the Greens
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Feb 14, 2015 06:28
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##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
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Feb 14, 2015 06:29
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Raserys posted:##Support the Captain of the Greens Echoing this, tbh I'm surprised the liberals didn't rename the city when they got the chance.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:37
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##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
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Feb 14, 2015 06:51
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RZApublican posted:Vote 1: ##Support the Captain of the Greens This. Any way to get a list of likely popular country names as they are right now?
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Feb 14, 2015 06:54
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Rincewind posted:Looks like everyone really wants a Byzantine team to beat the Germans! *london de contevilles win next ten european classics* As long as we beat the Germans all is good.
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Feb 14, 2015 07:07
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How're Silla and Haida doing? As for votes: ##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch And of course, those of you debating names have forgotten something - we should clearly let the Turks decide.
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Feb 14, 2015 07:40
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##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
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Feb 14, 2015 07:52
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So, I'll take a crack at a ByzLP communist party for France? Section Sans-culottes du Tiers État An alliance of peasants fed up with losing wars, urban workers fed up with the Machine Dukes, and common-born parish priests fed up with the Jacobins of the First Estate being too elitist and out of touch with their congregations. Its policies reflect what I understand to be France's recent history of turmoil, faded glory, and military precarity. Trade Policy: Protectionism Every attempt at free trade in basic staples has been hell for workers in the city and tended to see fierce competition for land swallow up most of the peasant freeholders, reducing them to sharecroppers. Nothing else would fly, and sympathy for this was one of the main points of division within the ranks of the politicized clergy. Economic Policy: Planned Economy Yep. Religious Policy: Pluralism Religion was putting in serious work as the "heart of a heartless world" in recent times in France. The peasantry especially clung to religion, the workers of the city knew that the church was one of the few organizations committed to charity, and the commoner priests have a fairly secure intellectual leadership role in the movement. That said, religious tolerance is seen as the only way to maintain good diplomatic relations with other peoples of different faiths, and everyone remembers how the "Most Christian Kings" propped their tyranny up on a cross. Gallican Christianity will be a dominant cultural and social force and will likely have some semi-official political role, but there will be no official state religion of a French Commune. Citizenship Policy: Limited Citizenship France has been at war with numerous foreign nations for decades and has been suffering a crisis of national identity. Between the soldiers fighting for France abroad and the civilians suffering invasion at home, most French people cling to a defensive jingoism more intense than their religious affiliation. No political tendency in France has any prayer of gaining traction without some degree of patriotism. That said, the official stance is that France-as-France can work within an International alliance while maintaining its cultural cohesion and honoring the citizenship of foreign workers who embrace French culture. War Policy: Pro-Military Although war and strife have shaped the French psyche to identify strongly with the homeland, everyone is sick and tired of fighting wars. A communist France will want to rebuild and develop internally while maintaining a strong and ready military. Adventurism is not on the agenda, but the French have no reason to think the world will leave them alone, much less the radically capitalist Germany that already wants to destroy France. If it came down to joining the International in an allied liberation war, there would be support, but the French Commune's military is honored as a defender first and foremost. And given their recent history, support for a military of self-defense will be very strong. OK, I have an idea for a flag after all, like this but not lovely:  Edit: Use megane's much improved version please!  It's meant to be an "inversion" of the First Estate Jacobins' flag: 
GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 07:53
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I vote whichever way keeps Constantinople as the capital without changing the name, I don't remember all the names and can't check while typing on the phone app. And I may as well go ahead and register the Marathi Communist Party while I'm at it: Free trade Planned economy, duh Pluralism Full citizenship Pro-military, in the "speak softly and carry a big stick" school of thought 
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Feb 14, 2015 08:08
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Flesnolk posted:How're Silla and Haida doing? As for votes: The Haida are currently the number 8 Great Power, although they and Somalia are neck and neck. If France's current wars go how I think they're going to go, though, they might both get to be Great Powers in the near future. They're mostly just doing the same Haida thing they've been doing all game-- holding western Avalon, taking Aoetearoa and most of the good bits of Karatgurk, coasting on their high prestige, etc. They've run out of easy expansion options, though— Oceania is full, their eastern frontier has run up against Ayiti's western borders (in the ugliest border ever seen in a Paradox game), and they sat out the Scramble for Africa. In addition, their comparatively sparse population has hampered their industrialization— it's nothing to sneeze at, but they're lagging behind most of the other Great Powers. Silla was knocked out of serious secondary power contention back when Japan conquered the southern tip of Korea just to be assholes, I guess, and things haven't been the same since then. They've managed to claw their way up to number 17, though, so they might become a secondary power if Ireland ever stops being glued to number 16. Although with all of their old colonies surrounded, there's not really much they could do with SP status at this point.
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Feb 14, 2015 08:12
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Ireland, I assume, is just chilling out and being Irish like they have all game?
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Feb 14, 2015 08:20
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##Support the Captain of the Greens ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch
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Feb 14, 2015 08:23
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Flesnolk posted:Ireland, I assume, is just chilling out and being Irish like they have all game? Yep.
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Feb 14, 2015 08:24
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 Rallis Mars, chairman of the Byzantine worker's council of diplomatic relations with Frankly, I think moving the capital is a waste of time and effort for insignificant gain. Same with renaming it, really. I do have good tidings to bring, the proud workers of Great Somalia stand with the people of Rome or Byzantium or whatever we are calling it now, pledging their eternal support to the global struggles of workers everywhere! ...They just, ah, haven't arrived yet. (I want to make the Somali Communist party but I'm really not sure as to how it would be what with Somalia's very different state in this world. What's their current status?) NewMars fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Feb 15, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 08:32
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 Kara Hira, Byzantine Red Guard and Activist for National Work Safety Regulations Byzantines, Comrades, I am urge you all to support keeping the capital in its current region. While Athens is the home of the revolution, it has issues in terms of political, economic, and social infrastructure. Athens is not a city meant to become a seat of power for this Byzantine community, and changing it to be such would only serve to drain our resources in the short term for minimal gains in the long term. Resources that the workers, the citizens of Byzantium, need far more. However, I do see the point in renaming the city, re-branding it and revitalizing it to better reflect our new, better government. The irony here is that the best name for it is from the pages of history. Constantinople no more, it will become a truly Byzantine city. Join me, Comrades, as many of you already have! ##Support the Captain of the Greens! ##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend! And let us call our fair city Byzantion!
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Feb 14, 2015 08:34
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I was going to do a Haida Communist party but I'm entirely too amused by the idea of a full-Bizarro Irish party, so here we go. Even though with as overall pleasant a place as Ireland seems in this world, a Communist revolution seems pretty unlikely. Páirtí na nOibrithe Éireannacha (Sorry, but I don't have the knowhow to make a nice flag. Imagine the gold harp dripping with blood or something.) Trade policy: Protectionism Economic policy: Planned Economy Religious policy: Secularism Citizenship policy: Residency War policy: Jingoism I could write up some fluff for it like GunnerJ did for France, but I figured it'd work best left to you. I was just more tickled than I should be by Ireland's Communists being bloodthirsty jerks and overall a 180 from how the government currently is. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 08:52
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VOTE 1: SHOULD THE CAPITAL OF THE BYZANTINE COMMUNE BE IN CONSTANTINOPLE OR ATHENS? ##Support the Practical Red Guard to move our capital to Athens. GSD ##Support the Captain of the Greens to keep our capital in Constantinople. RZApublican Lord Cyrahzax Thordain Ogianres Chief Savage Man Raserys Tulip Danann Brutus Salad Rodyle HiHo ChiRho Flesnolk Rubix Squid WeaponGradeSadness NewMars StrifeHira Because this was nearly unanimous and I don't want to have to keep on counting votes for it, I'm CLOSING VOTE 1 and our capital is staying in A Certain City on the Bosphorus Left Tantalizingly Unnamed For NowVote 2 is closer and is still in progress VOTE 2: REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF VOTE 1, SHOULD CONSTANTINOPLE BE RENAMED? ##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend, Probably to rename Constantiople based on the results of DEBATE 1 below. GSD Ogianres Chief Savage Man Raserys Tulip Brutus Salad StrifeHira ##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople to keep Constantinople RZApublican Lord Cyrahzax Thordain Danann Rodyle HiHo ChiRho Flesnolk Rubix Squid WeaponGradeSadness NewMars
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Feb 14, 2015 09:26
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GunnerJ posted:So, I'll take a crack at a ByzLP communist party for France? I just realigned the little gongs here: Also a party for  : 扶桑共産党 (Fusou Kyousantou) Trade policy: Free Trade Economic policy: Planned Economy Religious policy: Moralism Citizenship policy: Full Citizenship War policy: Pacifism
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Feb 14, 2015 09:43
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##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend, Probably Got the perfect name for it too, Athens. 
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Feb 14, 2015 09:56
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 Haida Syndicalist Confederation The arrival of Europeans to Avalon in the late 15th century brought two disasters to our shores: first the physical plagues that ravaged the population and saw the destruction of many smaller communities, who were soon swallowed up by Ayiti and Haida powers, and second by the introduction of capitalism to the indigenous cultures. As explored in the latest intellectual work to make the salon circuit, The Art of Not Being Governed by the Inuit philosopher Uputsi Kuvageegai, Avalon is a fertile land for the burgeoning anarchist and communist movements. The upheavals following the plague years saw millions of people abandoning settled, organized society, forming cooperative communities. As the continental powers stabilized their borders and fenced off the frontiers, this cultural memory of freedom could not be extinguished through the introduction of foreign European ideas of state and capital. We reject these as being inherently coercive and unnatural. Trade policy: Free Trade Borders are a lie. While the present political situation prevents their complete dissolution, fostering great economic ties between the peoples of Avalon can only strengthen internationalism. Economic policy: Planned Economy Religious policy: Moralism We must become pillars of the community and strive to eliminate vice. Secularism is another foreign import we do not need. Citizenship policy: Full Citizenship War policy: Pacifism
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Feb 14, 2015 10:07
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Constantinople's been occupied dozens of times - Athens has only been occupied three, maybe four times tops. It just makes sense.  ##Support Evgenia Exteberria's Girlfriend, Probably Also voting for Sallajinople
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Feb 14, 2015 10:07
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##Support the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
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Feb 14, 2015 10:51
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