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If that's the case than China shouldn't be it's own bloc.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:31
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Rincewind posted:
 New on the Byzantine Telecommunications Union Network (BTUN), it's: "The God Couple," Starring: Sylvester Mars! I'll be deep in my cold, cold grave before I give up the bath to some mangy Manx! *Laugh Track* NewMars fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 23:32
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If Ireland didn't exist, the Papacy would be the most miserable story in this LP. Pope Petrus Romanus XXX currently lives in a two-room apartment in Douglas, surrounded by the curia (three guys and a janitor) and scores of empty whiskey bottles.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:39
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I feel really bad for both of them. The Papacy falling from its infinite wealth in Orbetello and Ireland going from a super peaceful and nice place to the utter blood soaked mayhem that went on there in the last few updates of V2.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:51
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India being the site of the Spanish Civil War equivalent would be nifty, but you'd probably want to ensure that whoever wins gets aligned with either the RRP or someone else. Maybe make Marathas fascist during the two year period? That, or align them with China, which would be loving terrifying, but I'm pretty sure both Marathas and EH hate China sorta equally. An American Civil War analogue (blessed be Kaiserreich) would also be cool, but I'm not sure there's a nation big enough to properly reflect that clusterfuck. More I think about this, the more I want to see it in Darkest Hour a la Kaiserreich. You'd need a hilarious amount of events written up, though, about on the same level as what KR has.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:19
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willing to settle posted:Don't know that you even can have a fourth bloc in HOI4. When they previewed political stuff it seemed pretty clearly defined as Communist, Liberal, Fascist with neutrals on the side able to be influenced into the big three. I suppose it depends on how much alliance blocs are tied to those political systems. It could be that nations are aligned with one another independently of their govtype-- the national focus system seems to have a lot of options for building closer ties with various nations, for example. The politics system is one of the things I'm most curious about, since ByzLP has things like the long, blurry continuum between social democracy and Full Müllerism, or ancap China, or a handful of remaining old-fashioned absolutist monarchies, that don't really fit into the communist/liberal/fascist split. On the other hand, the game is a lot less about internal politics than V2 is, so maybe you could just collapse everything from Britain to Byzantium into the communist bloc or something. EDIT: These are the HoI IV dev diaries, for reference. I realize that going into too much detail with all of this before the game is out is kind of pointless, but I'm having fun speculating and talking about it. Hey, which Land Doctrines should the GPs have? France would be Mobile Warfare, obviously, and Britain would still be Grand Battleplan, but I'm not sure about the others. I know that we won't be Mass Assault, since that completely blew up in our face in the First Great War. Maybe Superior Firepower, to reflect all of our fancy high-tech industrial output? Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 00:25
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Definitely superior firepower, since our industrial score is unrivaled aside from China.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:08
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We'd be Superior Firepower, and I'd say China is still probably Mass Assault to take advantage of their numbers. If not Mass Assault then maybe Grand Battleplan or, god help us, Mobile Warfare.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:13
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I recommend Rince just convert over to Darkest Hour for the superior HoI experience 
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Apr 11, 2015 01:14
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lmao maybe if somebody else makes the entire mod for me f u c k modding the europa engine
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Apr 11, 2015 01:17
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What about Greenland as a refuge for the Pope? Though it was occupied during the Second Great War, Greenland is one of the most extreme points of the British Empire and unlikely to be involved in any major fighting. It is about as far as possible from any of the theatres as one can get. For a man who has been chased halfway around the world, Greenland might be a welcome exile. It gives the Church time to stabilize
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Apr 11, 2015 03:30
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Two cool things that I think could happen in HOI: 1) Indian (civil) war: Marathas and Hindustan finally decide to see who's the biggest bad. I know you said Hindustan went pacifist in response to their latest asskicking, but pacifism is boring as poo poo in HOI games. I forget what government types the two Indian states have at the moment, but a fascist/communist proxy war in India would be a great way to kill time and build tension in the leadup to world war, especially if China is trying to somehow get both sides to fail because they don't want a unified India on their southern flank. 2) The NGF has to decide where to throw its loyalties. It's a democracy surrounded by socialists and fascists that just got beaten up by fascists, and I see three possible directions. It could fall to a fascist coup itself, since it seemed to be going in that direction a lot only to pull its irons out of the fire at the last minute each time. That would give the European fascists a huge bloc in central Europe and make things very challenging for Byzantium, since there'd be a whole hostile Europe between them and their British allies. Secondly, the NGF could side with the socialists. They're historical allies and present an opportunity to band together against the French threat, but it could make the European war kinda boring since France would likely be super outmatched. Or they could try and third-way it and maintain their ideological purity by siding with the liberals of the world, even though they're all way the hell away from Europe and could leave the NGF fighting a three front war if the poo poo all hits the fan at once.
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Apr 11, 2015 04:39
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Actually, let's put this to a vote! I think it'd be cool if the Pope became an actual character in the LP, since so many of our other old friends from Crusader Kings 2 have come back for the end of the story. THE PAPAL CONCLAVE  SEDE VACANTE You are a member of the College of Cardinals. You are probably British (the Church has long been a dumping ground for surplus Habsburgs), perhaps Italian, Irish, German, or Nova Scotian— but perhaps you come from one of the Catholic nations destroyed by its neighbors or overthrown by revolution or religious strife— Thailand, Portugal, the Knights of Calatrava, Norway— presiding over a diocese in exile. Perhaps you hail from the more remote corners of the British Empire— British East Africa, in which an irenicist Church is a lightning-rod for agitation for independence; or one of the various island colonies that dot the Caribbean and the Pacific and serve as stations for the Royal Navy. Or perhaps you come from one of the tiny communities of Catholics in old Europe that survived the Valerian Persecution, ministering to your flock in the shadow of an Orthodox or Gallican Church. It is a time of chaos in the Catholic Church. While nothing can equal the dark days in the immediate aftermath of the False Saint's 'mending' of the schism, in which True Religion's Advocates found themselves nearly persecuted out of existence by the traitor kings of a Christendom gone mad, it is at least as serious a crisis in the apostolic succession as the proliferation of antipopes in the 11th century, or when the last pope to reign in Italy was hiratined following the annexation of the First Papal State. The Byzantines firmly remind you that the latter crisis was all the fault of that nasty, no-good Roman Empire, and definitely not Byzantium, which of course has absolutely no historical continuity with the blood-soaked reigns of those brutal tyrants*. You were hesitant to elect a new Pope without a Holy See for them to reign in, or any concrete plans to provide for the safety of the Pope. Before you can even consider who might replace the martyred Urban IV, you must sort through the various plans proposed to the Conclave to solve these issues. The Red Rose Pact has a vested interest in having a grateful and legitimate-seeming Pope, and many of their constituents are growing increasingly concerned over the unprecedented length of this period of sedevacantism. OOC: This vote will be followed by a second vote to elect a specific Pope. For options here with multiple possible locations listed, each candidate will represent a different one.  True Religion's Advocates In Times Of Rebellion & Strife  For all of modern history, the Habsburg monarchs of Great Britain have been the Pope's hosts, guardians, protectors, and fiercest advocates in a hostile world. The fall of Mann was regrettable, but it was a consequence of the Papacy's location on an isolated island enclave. As the example of Rhodes showed, such places are often havens for bizarre political projects. Great Britain itself is still the safest place in Europe. Through all the wars, the revolutions, the chaos— not once has an enemy army landed on Britain's shores. A Pope serving in Scotland, England, or Wales will have the Royal Navy between him and any who might harm him. Not even mighty Byzantium can boast of such inviolability. Futhermore, consider the following: responsibility for the welfare of the Church is perhaps the only matter of substance that is still the legal prerogative of the Sovereign of Great Britain. That means that, in Great Britain, the Papacy will continue to enjoy the advocacy of a powerful institution with a vested interest in its welfare, rather than being at the mercy of a fickle Parliament, Senate, or Ekklesia. #Support the Penitent Queen to locate the Papacy in Great Britain (possible locations: London, Glasgow, Canterbury)  Okay, look, sorry the decision my party made at the First International indirectly led to fascists seizing the Second Papal State and executing the last pope. I really would have voted to invite the Pope to Rome if I'd been there! But, unfortunately, I would not be born for another sixteen years, which made casting a ballot difficult. Anyway, as you know, the Irenicist Party (as opposed to the small-i irenicist tendency of the Athens Commune, which I represent, although-- ha ha-- not the Catholic wing of it) controls the Ekklesia, and if I can make a deal to bring the Pope back to Italy, they've agreed to earmark the funds to build an aircraft carrier for the Red Navy. We'll name it after your Pope! We can get you back into Rome-- the Patriarch of Rome isn't using all the cathedrals there-- or perhaps you'd prefer Orbetello, the illustrious Papal history of which makes it one of our most popular tourist destinations. Or how about Tuscany? I mean, it's the most Catholic-y part of Byzantium, since it spent so long as the private fiefdom of Byzantine monarchs who were too lazy to care about the whole "forced religious conversion" thing. ##Support the Maritime Tribune to locate the Papacy in the Byzantine Commune (possible locations: Rome, Orbetello, Tuscany)  I have a rather unorthodox— no pun intended— plan. I am one of the military officials tasked the restoration of order to Ireland. We have already made great strides defeating fascist holdouts and... encouraging... the local Party to adopt more syndicalist policies. Nonetheless, the New Red Army General Staff feels that the relocation of the Papacy to Ireland will greatly improve the morale of the Irish people, and be a crucially stabilizing influence. Now, we're aware that, given what happened to the last Pope, you can think of one very good reason to avoid Ireland. However...  ...we can think of 119,000 very good reasons to consider it. ##Support the Red Army Officer to locate the Papacy in Ireland (possible locations: Dublin) *The following emperors and empresses are still considered acceptable historical role-models and Honorary Byzantines™: Marcus Aurelius, Aurelian, Alexios I, St. Kaisarios, Iouliana the Great, Trajan the Silent, Julia Radziwill the Great. Any bad stuff they might have done was simply the result of imperfect political consciousness owing to the character of the times in which they lived. All of their accomplishments are part of the proud historical lineage of the Byzantine peoples. Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 04:46
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##Support the Maritime Tribune It is time for the people of Rome to say once again, "habemus papam!"
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Apr 11, 2015 04:54
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##Support the Red Army Officer: Friends and allies, I urge that we relocate the Pope to Dublin. As strange as it might seem, I feel that placing the Pope in Ireland will do a great deal to stabilize the country. While Ireland might be politically divided, its political sphere controlled by elites who understand revolution more than stable governance, religion remains absolutely sacrosanct. No one in Ireland dares threaten the Catholic Church and its authority is virtually unquestionable. For this reason, an Irish Papacy will discourage further revolutions. To say nothing of the Pope's personal ability to mediate disputes, Irish dissidents will be extremely wary to strike out if doing so might result in the death of their spiritual leader. Also, the Pope in Ireland is the most interesting option of the lot. The other options are simply non-starters. The Byzantine Commune is too likely to become embroiled in conflict and will try to exploit the Church as a political tool against its enemies. Great Britain is similarly close to war and recent actions on Mann should make the public wary about trusting His Holiness to them. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 05:04
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##Support the Red Army Officer If we're lucky we can get a communist theocracy!
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Apr 11, 2015 05:06
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 Charles Otto Richard Victor von Habsburg, Cardinal-Prince of Great Britain, Archbishop of York There is only one option for the Most Holy Church! For centuries, Great Britain has been the center of True Christendom! From this glorious realm, my family has allowed the Church to flourish, to grow, to thrive! How can we repay such kindness with exile in Godless Byzantium (home to the depraved and pagan False Patriarch of Rome), or war-torn an occupied Ireland?! Both choices are bizarre, inappropriate, and unworthy of the Holy Father to come! Only in Britain will the Papacy receive the respect and independence it deserves! How do I know this? It has been the case for centuries! Don't fix what isn't broken! Crush the Imperium of Mann, and all will be as it should be! Do not send us to writhe under the accursed thumbs of communists! #Support the Penitent Queen
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Apr 11, 2015 05:08
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Wait, Rincewind has a webcomic?
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Apr 11, 2015 05:18
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##Support the Maritime Tribune It's the Bishop of Rome.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:21
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Sylvester Mars, the venerable and loud Patriarch of Rome. drat and blast, we just scrubbed down the Raphael rooms and this is what you tell me? I'm not going to let some hair-brained conclave let all the hard work we put into making this place big enough so's I never have to run into him go to waste! Send that no-hoper to Rome and put him in the other side of the Apostolic Palace.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:33
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##Support the Penitent Queen! To Canterbury, Your Holiness! (I did think GB should probably have gotten an event to avenge the pope when Mann fell to fascists  maybe an early event for them in HoI4, "fight easiest war ever or no?")Edit: is Mann allied with any other fascists or otherwise under foreign protection? Double Edit: with the general gender equality in this timeline, has there been a popess yet? GSD fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 06:14
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##Support the Red Army Officer Ireland needs all the help it can get. 
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Apr 11, 2015 06:22
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##Support the Penitent Queen Putting the Pope in the only remaining major Catholic power is really the only thing that makes sense. Put him somewhere in Scotland, it'll be good for British morale.
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Apr 11, 2015 06:24
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France. The Papacy. Rome. Familiar names and familiar conflicts for unfamiliar times. Are we doomed to forever resurrect the spectres of the past, and cast our blood on their bones? I vote that we truly desire peace, we must break the cycle of emnity. Accomodate the Catholic peoples and their institutions, it's a small gesture for the sake of goodwill. ##Support the Maritime Tribune
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Apr 11, 2015 06:46
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:##Support the Penitent Queen
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Apr 11, 2015 06:47
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tatankatonk posted:Wait, Rincewind has a webcomic? Yeah it's called Homestuck 
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Apr 11, 2015 06:50
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##Support the Red Army Officer. Ireland may be under occupation to keep things peaceful, but decades of constant war have probably produced some of the most battle-hardened and combat-capable individuals in Europe, possibly even the world. It's like a green, Gaelic-speaking Salusa Secundus. The Irish Guard will defend the Papacy well - and, in exchange, the Papacy will shield Ireland from further strife and discord.
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Apr 11, 2015 07:06
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quote:People voting for other options Sylvester Mars, the venerable and loud Patriarch of Rome. You fools! Don't you realize what with the place now fixed up for him, if he doesn't start living here I won't be able to hold off the Orthodox tourist's communal committee any longer? Oh, it'll be awful, I can see it now, the ecumenical patriarch'll shack up next to the patriarch of sicily and non-stop it'll be "Why can't you tell those Sicilians not to make such a racket, what with their non-stop rebellion and such" and he'll be all "You're not the boss of me, old man!" all day, every day.
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Apr 11, 2015 07:35
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##Support the Maritime Tribune
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Apr 11, 2015 07:44
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##Support the Red Army Officer It'll make Ireland interesting (in a good way) for the first time in 800 years.
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Apr 11, 2015 07:59
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##Support the Red Army Officer
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Apr 11, 2015 08:12
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##Support the Penitent Queen C'mon guys, Britain is our best friend. Denying them this would be a dick move.
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Apr 11, 2015 08:18
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##Support the Maritime Tribune Britain is RIGHT NEXT DOOR to the Pope-slayers. So is Ireland. You don't need another whole army to kill the new Pope, history shows a bullet to the head is sufficient. Let's take 'em as far away from Pope-slayers as possible for the time being. Britain really wants to show they can protect the Pope? Defeat the Imperium of Mann and take back the island. THEN you folks can throw 'em in London or wherever. Make an example of the Manx Fascists.
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Apr 11, 2015 08:24
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##Support the Red Army Officer because something something
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Apr 11, 2015 09:12
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##Support the Maritime Tribune
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Apr 11, 2015 09:28
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##Support the Penitent Queen
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Apr 11, 2015 10:06
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##Support the Red Army Officer I just think it'd be interesting.
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Apr 11, 2015 10:11
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##Support the Maritime Tribune It's more interesting if the Pope is more local than before.
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Apr 11, 2015 10:37
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| # ? May 10, 2024 23:33 |
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## Support the Maritime Tribune
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Apr 11, 2015 10:48
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