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October 29th 2015 Some dork already claimed my B-day. Wouldn't GW going under be the death knell of miniature wargamming? Whatever you think of GW they pull in a lot of new players who eventually move on into better different games like Warmachine or Historicals once they get tired of GW's bullshit. I fear that without GW miniature wargamming would slowly decline till it resembled the model railroad hobby, increasingly older, increasingly fewer grey-beards playing in basements.
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Apr 12, 2014 01:31
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Wait its really happening? I thought the 7th edition thing was a joke... It just continues to baffle me why people put up with GW's bullshit.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:02
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El Estrago Bonito posted:No force org chart might not be a bad thing. SAGA doesn't use one, you are free to take only the bestest most elite dudes if you want too (but there are tactical reasons not to). It's nice to see 40K moving more towards that model. I think it will probably make the game more like Flames of War, where you have to actually think about how your list is going to handle an entire enemy force made up of just hard hitting tanks or a list of engineers carrying dozens of AT guns and MG nests with multiple Panzerfausts in every unit. It's one of the best parts of FoW, and sure it means in 40K some rear end in a top hat is going to bring six Valkyrie Gunships to the board and nothing else, but maybe this means that I'm going to get to field a list with five missile launcher devastator squads backing up a Imperial Knight and that doesn't sound too bad in my eyes. Yeah but in those systems (with a few exceptions) while taking nothing but a single type of unit is possible, it's generally a stupid idea. I haven't played 40k since 3rd edition but from what I've seen of it, 40k isn't such a system.
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May 8, 2014 03:46
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Daedleh posted:But don't you realise that catering to tournaments by balancing the game and writing clear, concise rules is somehow bad for casual play? In my experience (more with Historicals though) is that the guys loudest about "casual" play are the biggest WAAC-type players out there. But rather than being WAAC with a highly optimized and points efficient army they know everything about by virtue of lots of play-testing, these guys want to be able to exploit poorly written, vague and unbalanced rules to bully and selectively-rule's lawyer their opponents. Also a lot deliberately making illegal moves in the hopes that you don't notice then pleading ignorance with a side of "its just a game man why you got to be so serious about it?"
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Jun 22, 2014 15:43
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Korwen posted:You can kind of see what I'm talking about in the video here: Arrrg now I regret not going, I could have been playing on those FoW tables. The last Austin Tournament I went to had some petty goddamn awful tables (As in they looked good, but where unplayable) so I passed on this one (in part) thinking it would be more of the same. Exinos posted:Also anecdotal but living in Houston I am watching 40k go down hard. It's dropped off a huge amount just in the last year or so I've really started mini gaming in the city, meanwhile Warmahordes is exploding. At Fat Ogre up north they're constantly adding new warmachine players. Still seems to be a good population of them at Asgard, though they are clearly an unhappy bunch.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:27
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Yeah you walk into the FLGS I frequent looking for a game to play and odds are you are going to walk out with a Warmachine/hordes starter box. Games like Infinity, Bolt action and Flames of War are also usually well represented.S.J. posted:Right, so you couldn't get a bunch of free mini rulebooks, forgot about that. Didn't mean we took it from them you just had to have it on you. Most stores that I know of just gave you one if you asked. I got like 4 and I never even owned the 2nd edition hardback. Also the mini-rule book is the complete rulebook, not a stripped down one.
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Jul 24, 2014 00:36
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Anecdotal Evidence Tale Same story at mine as well. Not a lot of turnover ether in their inventory, I sure that most of those boxes have been there for years, probably even from before I first started visiting that store more than 4 years ago. Not that there isn't a lot of GW players around, I see them in the store all the time, but they apparently don't buy anything in the store to the owner's extreme annoyance.
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Jul 24, 2014 13:39
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I think it drops 100% by the end of the year. This is the first snowflake in a disaster that is going to snowball into a Enron-Type scandal were we are going to find out about hilarious accounting fraud and embezzlement schemes. stockholders sell everything and several people end up in prison. I'm getting some popcorn.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:46
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Tuxedo Jack posted:It's weird seeing those numbers. Last year, our store was devoid of 40k players (WFB was pretty popular, though). This year, we've got almost two dozen players back in the game, and Fantasy is still popular. So, locally, I don't see the reflection of those numbers. It's just odd... Then again, our group isn't buying a lot of legitimate 40k product, either. I wouldn't take what happens at any individual store as representative of any wider trends. This includes the "40k is dead at my FLGS" type stories. My FLGS has a fairly active Blood Bowl League. When I got back into this hobby it was a good year or so until I saw anybody play a game of 40k at my FLGS, then about a year back they suddenly appeared in mass and for a while that lead to some friction as they competed with the Warmachine players for tables. I think 7th edition drove them off though. Though taking the temperature of the net it seems to bear out the "GW is hosed/gently caress GW" talk.
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Jul 29, 2014 14:26
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I got really confused a year(?) or so back when GW started shipping stuff to my FLGS packed loose in a single box with all the sprues in a little plastic baggy. The store started using the most convenient box they had which happened to be these cartons that Battlefront sends FoW blister packs in. FoW is popular so they have tons of these boxes. Anyway these boxes are usually marked with whats in them like "German Tanks" on the box. So one day I walked in and was all like, "what is there FoW stuff mixed in with the GW crap?" Its so sketchy looking, a box clearly marked for some other companies product then a printout of some picture of what is actually in the box taped to it. the FLSG owner wasn't even mad, more like resigned to how stupid it all was.
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Aug 1, 2014 13:44
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serious gaylord posted:Its a disingenuous argument though. That packaging is designed for people to see it on shelves, against competing product and choose that. This is an argument caused because some people don't like that they ship products from their warehouse to customer in a standard box. Its just yet another incredibly minor thing that's been banged on as if its a direct, gigantic, gently caress you to their customers. Its more that its evidence that the Management at GW is insane and or is in that Business Death Spiral somebody linked to earlier. They spent 4 MILLION POUNDS on a lovely website but can't spare the 50 cents or so it would cost per order to ship their so-called premium product in a normal shelf package rather than a ziplock bag they fished out of the break room trash bin. That's the point, not that it somehow ruined somebodies life because their mans came in a white box!
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Aug 2, 2014 00:17
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serious gaylord posted:However I get annoyed when people spew absolute fantasy as truth because its been said on the internet enough, or when people flip their poo poo over utterly trivial things and act as if its a personal insult to their customer base. Brah you sound like one of those console wars idiots who argues with people about obvious and serious defects with their ____ console because they desperately need to justify their purchase and also tribalism.
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Aug 2, 2014 15:45
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War Foot obviously has encountered some huge cunts and that is a shame, but those guys are not representative of FoW players in general. I've meet hundreds of FoW players going to various tournaments (the place if anywhere were I should have met spergs, grogs, assholes etc...) and encountered the exact opposite of what War Foot has seen. Nobody gave a poo poo if your army was 100% historically accurate or painted exactly as they should be. Nobody cared if you used a M4A2 sherman in a platoon that should have had M4A3 shermans in it. Nobody was ever mocked for doing something differently ether. Battlefront doesn't give a poo poo ether and once gave an award to a guy who modeled his whole army as those balloon decoy tanks (the infantry were cardboard Target silhouettes) the Allies used to confuse the Germans about where the D-Day landings would happen. Every single one of them was at least courteous (even when they were losing) and most were good folks. I'm not going to lie and say there isn't a strong preference for historical accuracy, fully painted armies and being a bit more serious (but not too much else we would be playing something else) than what would be expected when you are playing with cartoon space dragons in the broader FoW Culture, but it is nothing like what War Foot is talking about. other reasons why Battlefront is not GW Battlefront actually play-tests their rules. Sometimes they make some wonky decisions based on it, but at least they try. Battlefront also responds to player suggestions and criticisms in a positive way. They have gone and reversed several of their dumb decisions (like BF only models at BF tournaments, they back tracked on that one fast) because of feed back from the community. Also because of this they have fixed rules that were seriously broken (one way or the other) also because of player feedback.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:28
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I've met too many.
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Sep 3, 2014 18:31
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RE: That Warmahordes vs 40k price stuff. Historical player here pointing out that you could buy like a dozen armies for the price of 1 40k/warmahordes army.  Seriously though, why does price matter? you shouldn't be in any hobby that puts a serious financial burden on you. Numlock fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 14:45
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fool_of_sound posted:Also, historical minis are cheap because they're (fort he most part) ugly and low detail. This does matter to a lot of people. More skulls = more better/valuable.
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Oct 4, 2014 00:31
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moths posted:They are! But Don't forget that a Sherman is a Sherman and won't get errata'ed into uselessness or because a man in a robot piloting a larger robot (JUST LIKE MUH ANIMES) model just got released that does the same thing but better and at lower points. So an army you built in the 90's is just as good now as it was then.
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Oct 4, 2014 04:05
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Captain Rufus posted:Not one person paints? Not a single person? My FLGS is similar (For both 40k and war-machine), but there is painted stuff. Probably 50% unpainted and 20-40% incomplete including poo poo that is primer only or some sort of mostly (primer) black "2grimdark4u" paint scheme (See the Blue table painting stuff in the Painting de-motivational thread). Rare to see a fully painted army. rkajdi posted:Thanks! I have a few plastic models that have paint on them, and I'll be trying this stuff out. If it doesn't work, no big loss. If it does, there's whole different second-hand options open for me now. If you want something 100% safe unless you drink it, try Isopropyl Alcohol, 70% concentration or better. I've started using it over simple green and in about 30 min its usually removed all paint but from the deepest recesses, primer and all. Some have reported damage to plastics and resin because of it but I haven't seen it. Numlock fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 19:13
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It's a shame because there is such a wealth of info out there available on the net that you can take advantage of to learn new techniques. If you put some effort into it you can improve dramatically very quickly. I've been doing so, setting out a new unit and trying something new or different with it each time and its just amazing how fast I've gone from "Thin ur paints" to getting compliments on it and people readily buying my old models for the paint jobs. Still a long way to go but its been fun, and I think people miss out on that if they don't pain their minis. There was a lot of stuff that I sold way under cost of the bare pewter/resin though at first because of how awful it was but that didn't last very long.
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Oct 18, 2014 01:01
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Wouldn't most other companies (whether they were in the "jewel like objects of wonder" business or not) run such events as a way of promoting their product/industry/hobby and keeping their customer base engaged not really expecting to break even, much less turn a profit from the event itself. The idea being that such events (which are essentially massive advertisements you interact with) would lead to more sales later? Yeah I know, its games workshop.
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Oct 22, 2014 04:14
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TheChirurgeon posted:I don't understand how a store can make money if it doesn't sell Magic: the Gathering these days. From what I understand, card game sales make up the bulk of hobby store revenue. MtG is the only thing keeping the doors open at my FLGS. Apparently there are a lot of those guys dumping every penny of disposable (and probably not disposable, the miracle of being single and childless I guess) cash into MtG than there are guys doing it for other hobbies. They are apparently (as told by a guy who knows the owner, so this is hearsay) also getting a liquor licence/permit and turning this area that was a underutilized hobby area (for painting mostly) into a bar on the idea that beer sales could help fill in the gaps in-between major MtG releases.
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Oct 27, 2014 14:00
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petrol blue posted:I was thinking about this earlier - isn't it weird that gaming as a hobby has this 'support your FLGS' thing going on? I mean, I don't have an acronym for my local art supplies shop, or my local grocer, etc. Is it just a hangover from the days when there was only one shop in town, and you spent most of your gaming time hanging out with the owner? Mine is nice and if it went away I would be out of this hobby as there is no way I'm doing a 4 hour round trip to the next nearest store. Sure with the guys I know we could get together in somebodies garage occasionally and play but when you start playing a game once a month (because of time and distance constants) that game is going to die quick. Beerdeer posted:Had a long talk with my FLGS operator who loves GW for its efforts to shut down online dealers. They don't even sell Privateer stuff anymore because people were getting it at the Warstore 20% discount and bringing it in to play. He says "for all GW's faults, they're trying to keep the stores going." What was funny is that this is my FLGS but its the GW guys who buy nothing at the store yet take up gaming space and other crimes.
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Oct 27, 2014 23:47
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I still don't understand why people have a problem with Kickstarter and companies like Mantic or Steve Jackson Games using it. If GW wanted to start using kickstarter as a kind of pre-order system then whatever, its not like its making you buy their poo poo or stopping people from also funding poo poo like some dude's (not) my little pony wargame/sextoys the game.
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Nov 1, 2014 03:36
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moths posted:What KS actually does is dump a ton of money on your company so you can bomb-launch with a full game, figure range, and terrain instead of bleeding releases out over months or years as you can allocate resources to produce them. After the Kickstarter you have a full range that can still be sold, (hopefuly) a burst of goodwill, and bodies-in-stores playing / demoing your game. For thin-margin companies like SJG, Mantic, CMoN, Onyx Path, or Reaper it's a godsend. Pretty much this, everything else just sounds like nerds sperging out about stupid poo poo that doesn't matter.
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Nov 1, 2014 17:46
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If my FLGS is any indication of general trends, 40k is in that phase where it's costing on inertia right before mass abandonment. Its already fighting to not be the least played table top game with the likes of Infinity and Malifax. Historicals get more table time (and the FLGS makes more money selling them). Star Wars: Armada is going to rule the roost once it comes out if the talk about the shop is anything be believed. The store is going get some (much needed) renovations and I wouldn't be surprised if the GW/40k inventory (Much it the same poo poo that has be moldering there for years) goes in the discount bin to make way for more star-wars stuff.
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Nov 23, 2014 05:24
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I vaguely remember that back when BFG was in stores that (at least locally) the guys into space ship games were firmly committed other systems and hated GW/"That crap for kids" (all the older grognard types) or they didn't have any interest in spaceships (I guess BFG wasn't grimderp enough, or didn't satisfy their need for adolescent power fantasy wish fulfillment). Of course at the time this boiled down to, "GET AWAY FROM MY YOU STUPID KID" and "BFG is gay". My brother and I were the only ones buying stuff and that was right before we quit.
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Nov 23, 2014 14:51
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Having played a few spaceship games (but by no means all of them) my impression is that there really isn't that much difference in basic mechanics, just in some stuff like what happens in what order during a turn and how much stuff they make you keep track of. Though another difference we are finding is whether Carriers and their fighter and bombers are OP as gently caress or completely useless and a waste of points (THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN). BFG is certainly the most accessible (if you ignore that it's deader than a doornob) of them though in that you don't have to keep track of very much.
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Nov 23, 2014 16:28
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So this is probably way late to the party here but I was pawing through some WD's that have been gathering dust at my FLGS while waiting on some friends to finish up a game, and saw that Space wolf guy on a flying boat/chariot pulled by two dogs. Goddamn nearly fell on the floor laughing. I don't know why anybody has any hope for that game.
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Dec 8, 2014 04:24
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:who plays games for fun? i demand only perfectly balanced competition, so i can know who is best at the very important topic of 'the strategy surrounding moving tiny plastic things around' Why is it always the guys coming from a GW background that assume that "Balanced" and "Fun" are mutually exclusive?
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Jan 22, 2015 01:27
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LordAba posted:Balance chats are always interesting because you have no idea if the other person is just a poo poo player. That is why they are so FUN!!! "____ Is op, here is some math showing that it is underpointed compared to similar units in other armies and 10 major tournament rankings where lists using that unit as the core of their force made of the majority of the top 10 including #1 through 4..." "GET GUD NOOB DURRRR" "Maybe in YOUR meta... BTW HOW IS BABBY FORMED HOW GRIL GET PREGNAT?" "Clearly you (insert nationality here) are too competitive/casual! Why can't you have FUN?" "This is why (ruleset) is poo poo because back in the (70's/80's) we played SEIG DETUSCHLAND KAMPFGRUPE IRON ACE BLITZKREIG IN THE EAST DESERT FOX GOTTERDANGRUM FRITZ" which was the perfect ruleset that was the perfect simulation of real warfare unlike this baby games that don't require 10 tables to look up how much fuel your panzer III's consume in Russia as opposed to Belgium!!"
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Jan 22, 2015 06:14
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Are there guys into miniature games who haven't played a GW game at some point? I personally don't know of even one.
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Jan 24, 2015 02:07
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Chill la Chill posted:You're right. Photoshop or not, this is what most metallic painted models look like and is why they look so bad. This is why NMM is the superior painting technique and is what you typically see for studio and competition models. I don't know if this is some goon thing to hate that particular style but that model looks pretty good to me... 
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Jan 25, 2015 16:13
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JerryLee posted:'Most' NMM probably does look pretty bad. NMM done at the Golden Daemon savant level will blow away anything you can do with metallic paint, but for most people metallic paint + washes is likely to come off looking much better than NMM. For my 15mm stuff I tend to paint exposed metal in a grey/dark grey with a wash which I guess is sort of like NNM because metallic paint on 15mm stuff looks like rear end IMHO. I do think that model would be improved (and look more "Egyptian") if some of the detail was was done in gold and or bronze though because it would look less "2 grimdark 4 u"
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Jan 25, 2015 17:38
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lilljonas posted:What is relevant to this thread is that these are new types of ways to make a game interesting and intuitive while also making it less stat-heavy. Other miniature gaming sub-genres usually see these kinds of new things pop up every few years, and gamers skip to this new game system but with the same miniatures. For large scale historical battles it can be from WRG to DBA to FOG to Sword & Spear, or Blitzkrieg Commander to Flames of War, or Disposable Heroes to Bolt Action to Chain of Command. You're simply not as bound by the miniatures and ruleset, and the publishers are more happy about scrapping an entire set of rules to try something new, so the games develop very rapidly compared to GW's headliner games that are stuck in the past. This is a healthy way of getting a steady stream of new ideas, while also not be left sitting with thousands of dollars of lead that you can't use. Just don't expect anything to be air-tight rules wise, at least not at first.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:36
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Comstar posted:The small gaming con I went to last weekend used to have 150 people playing 40k for 2 days. It hasn't run for 3 years now. People were playing Xwing and Warmachine. If you want tournament ready games that use more than stinking infantry just play Flames of war, or if your rear end blows an o-ring at the thought of painting something that isn't 28mm then there is Bolt Action, which is sort of like FoW but for filthy casuals and 40k refugees. There are others but lol good luck finding people who play them, or use scales even more terrifying than 15mm (10mm? OHHH MMMYYY GAWWWDDDD) I guess if you think the biggest conflict in human history that actually happened is somehow boring because there are no bishi super-humans and totally not steam punk skeleton men in it then I guess there is Mantic's stuff.
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Feb 1, 2015 08:10
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HiveCommander posted:This addresses the main reason I have no interest in FoW. Having to have separate lists for early, mid and late-war (along with the different models to do with it) isn't my thing, and feels liek it would come down to a lot of "Oh you want to play early-war? Ok, I'm probably gonna lose because all my good options are mid-war and early- is your country's strong point" which is a bit silly IMO. I feel it wouldn't lend well to a campaign either, since being so far ahead to start is all well and good, until you get shoved back to a little Belguim-sized section of the campaign map because you've got the worst late-war tanks None of this is a problem. Seriously all of you guys are operating on what I can only imagine is hearsay from others who don't know what they are doing. Otisburg posted:I feel all the pressure to observe strict accuracy would be an irritation. Having to buy a different tank because LATE war Soviets wouldn't have this type of SMG with that type of tank and their tunics are the wrong shade entirely and actually while you can take that army list by the rules if you look at the actual translated field manuals from 1940 their doctrine would never have allowed for TWO heavy machine guns kind of poo poo. Nope nope and no. I don't know who you talked to, but they were full of poo poo. These are the following things nobody gives a poo poo about in FoW: 1) Using Panzer IV D instead of a Panzer IV H (THE HORROR)? Its a panzer IV so its close enough! 2) Exactly correct colors. Anybody who told you there is a correct shade for anything in WWII is an idiot or a noob trying to look knowledgeable. Colors varyied so much because factors like, when was it painted, how much sun it got, who painted it, did they use water or diesal to thin it, was it cold when they did it.... etc... So no, if its in Europe paint your tanks some shade of tan-green or green and its good enough. In North Africa/Italy you use a Tan. Pick whatever floats your boat. Also nobody cares if you want to be a special snowflake and paint your poo poo pink. 3) Historically correct lists? While you can't take stuff like King Tigers in an Early war game thats about it. There is "historically correct" and then there is Flames of war. HiveCommander posted:Not far from it. World War and historicals don't really interest me personally, but "my game is thiiis superior What? I guess i need to start using emoticons or something because goons are dumb. I wasn't smug or even suggesting FoW was "Superior" just suggesting a game that uses lots of types of stuff that is commonly played. I only listed the top reason why people refuse to try it. 1) Some sort of weird hatred/fear of painting in other scales 2) Thinking history is boring and imaginary elf poo poo is interesting 3) FoW is too try-hard (might not care if you army is historically accurate but when it comes to serious biz tournament play...) so they want something more casual like Bolt Action. serious gaylord posted:I think people don't want to play flames of war or bolt action because of posts like this. I don't know what the gently caress your problem is...
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Feb 1, 2015 16:22
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" posts don't really help the cause for anyone that is sitting on the fence about them.
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Der Shovel posted:Seriously. I'm sure there are people who will complain and sperg out if you use a Panzer IV D model to represent a Panzer IV H or if your tank colours aren't from the officially approved list of historically accurate shades of German grey, but those people exist in every hobby. Oh yeah they exist alright, but none of them play Flames of War. FoW's genetic make up has more early 40k (and other sci-fi/fantasy games) in it than it does any other historical ruleset, and along with its focus on competitive, balanced gaming made most of the old school Grognard/Sperg types hate it from the start. The fact that BF occasionally updates the rules and re-points broken things drove out the last of them long ago. I would say that culturally, FoW Players are closer to 40k players than not, but there is some strong preferences for painted models, the paint job to be historically plausible, and the model to be correct. Nobody is going to freak though if you don't care to buy and paint a whole new set of Panzer IV's for Mid-War when you already have a ton of the Late-War variety however.
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Feb 2, 2015 20:16
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El Estrago Bonito posted:It's really adorable that you think this. Well gently caress you too.
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Feb 3, 2015 02:25
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Has anybody mentioned yet how in certain other communities on the internet that there is a popular opinion that elves are only good for that one thing... Because i'm doing that now.
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Feb 4, 2015 15:19
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 04:04 |
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Wise counsel which is often ignored by fool Dwarves. Duh its like you didn't even read/watch the Hobbit.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:17
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