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vulturesrow
Sep 25, 2011

Always gotta pay it forward.

Dodge Charms posted:

"Yo, Alchemst here. This is factually incorrect. My buddy does the heavy lifting."
"Summoner here. I have many buddies, and Alchemist is right."
"Oozemancer here. I'm going to kill Alchemist later but for now I must admit that he has a point."
"Doomed checking out. I'm leaving with all of your wallets thanks to my little buddies."

I'll tweak but I'd like to point out that the golem doesnt do the heavy lifting. He just stays between the bad guys and the alchemist while alchy throws huge fuckoff bombs at them.

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Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


vulturesrow posted:

I'll tweak but I'd like to point out that the golem doesnt do the heavy lifting.
I have run alchemists who don't even use channel staff once in their first 10 levels, literally just walking around picking poo poo up and leveling because my golem is out earning XP, it's like some kind of arcane pyramid scheme, but whatever.

Try to tell me that you think Summoners don't have buddies who do the heavy lifting.

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012



Dodge Charms posted:

I have run alchemists who don't even use channel staff once in their first 10 levels, literally just walking around picking poo poo up and leveling because my golem is out earning XP, it's like some kind of arcane pyramid scheme, but whatever.

Try to tell me that you think Summoners don't have buddies who do the heavy lifting.

Did you win? My alchemist's golem was basically useless in the east.

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


Shwqa posted:

Did you win? My alchemist's golem was basically useless in the east.
No, every time I run an Alchemist I get bored and stupid and then I die.

When the new Alchemy trees come out I'll give one a try again.

EDIT: also no argument that Golems aren't equally useful through the whole game, but they can carry you through the early game while you build up whatever other trick you want to pull, and then Advanced Golemancy makes them come back for free.

Wilde Jagd
Jan 2, 2014

by XyloJW


Speaking about Alchemists, does anyone know the allow_build code to unlock drolems? It seems like a neat idea.

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


Wilde Jagd posted:

Speaking about Alchemists, does anyone know the allow_build code to unlock drolems? It seems like a neat idea.
Relevant code seems to be:
game:setAllowedBuild("cosmetic_class_alchemist_drolem", true)

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Shwqa posted:

Did you win? My alchemist's golem was basically useless in the east.

If you go Corrupted Summoning it's possible to get a Golem who can go mano y mano with Argoniel and win(provided you drop heals for him). Alchemist Golems are no loving joke.

MiltonSlavemasta
Feb 12, 2009

And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
"When you coming home, dad?"
"I don't know when
We'll get together then son you know we'll have a good time then."


I've been looking at the guides for Shadowblades, and while it's clear Shadowstep is really good, nobody's been very explicit about their best races or what to do in order to get them up into the mid levels without dying a lot. Or, how to get any durability once they do get there.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


When you first go East, is there any way to side with the Orc in the cave? I got a dialogue box but my Cursed only had the option to punch green mans

A Cursed would literally always side with the Orcs, because they're both the children of Death Metal songs and just want to go chop and burn the world

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006


What are the best races for Spooky Psychic Batman?

paper bag with a face
Jun 2, 2007
Fighting poverty...one bum at a time.

dis astranagant posted:

What are the best races for Spooky Psychic Batman?

I would go with Thalore for tankiness. Yeeks are also a good choice if you can stand them.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


Roland T. Dapperman posted:

I would go with Thalore for tankiness. Yeeks are also a good choice if you can stand them.

Yeek works? I figured they'd be too squishy for a close range caster. I wouldn't touch them either way, personally - Doomed early game sucks enough as it is without dealing with those loving starter dungeons.



dis astranagant posted:

What are the best races for Spooky Psychic Batman?

If you don't mind forgoing AM, I think Ghoul would work pretty well with a Shadows build. Having the army of murderballs means your global speed penalty doesn't matter as much, and Ghoul Leap will help cover for Doomed's inability to close gaps well. First dungeon will probably be hell though.

Similar deal with Skeleton, though I'd probably do Darkness so you can zoom in, pop shields, and go to town on some fools. Between Cursed Form's second ability and the skeleton status effect reduction, you're pretty covered for stun/freeze protection, which is a big deal. You won't get stunned a lot, and when you do, you won't be down for long. Also Bone Shield will do wonders to cover your squishy rear end for the first fifteen levels or so


Personally I'm running Dwarf because Spooky Psychic Batdwarf made me smile. Saves are nice for everyone

Magres fucked around with this message at Jan 29, 2014 around 02:02

psy_wombats
Dec 1, 2009



MiltonSlavemasta posted:

I've been looking at the guides for Shadowblades, and while it's clear Shadowstep is really good, nobody's been very explicit about their best races or what to do in order to get them up into the mid levels without dying a lot. Or, how to get any durability once they do get there.

If you go Cornac, you can unlock Temporal and then Time Shield by the time you leave Trollmire. It's usually enough to spam that when anything tough comes into sight and it'll just about double how much damage you can take. Shadowblades any race should definitely take that tree, for Essence of Speed late-game as well.

rodney mullenkamp
Nov 5, 2010



Higher is the best race for Shadowblades IMO. Highers can Shadowstep from outside enemy LOS with one point in Overseer of Nations, Shadowstep will trigger Born into Magic so they work great with a shortstaff attuned to darkness and Umbral Razor or Mandible of Ungolmor, and Highborn's Bloom helps alleviate Shadowblade's stamina problems by giving you all those instant-use buffs for free. Four points in Illuminate makes the T1 dungeons a joke, and by the time it starts falling off you can unlock Temporal and pick up Time Shield, as mentioned above.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011


Yeah I gotta say, on my last Cursed I bought a merchant light that wound up coming with 14(!) light radius and +3 sight radius. Being able to see EVERYTHING coming was extremely handy. I dodged poorly timed encounters with bosses half a dozen times because I was autoexploring and saw them where they couldn't see me.



Maybe Overseer of Nation could boost your sight radius, infravision radius, and your light radius (it'd be like low light vision for Elves in D&D - where Humans can see 30' out with good vision from a lightsource, Elves can see 60', but neither of them has proper sight in the dark, Elves just have low light vision). Higher needs some love and I think that talent is what could easily become the signature 5/5 talent for Higher - vision supremacy loving owns. Anyone got any thoughts? I didn't get a lot of feedback on my old post of Higher ideas (it was basically make Overseer +2 infra and +1 sight per level instead of +1/+1, and make their fourth ability 'you ignore resource requirements entirely and don't even need the mana to cast an ability at all') so I don't know if they were poo poo, good, or meh. I'm guessing meh, considering I didn't get any feedback

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


People calling for Shadows buffs are forgetting they would become The Worst Thing to fight, even more than they already are.

vulturesrow
Sep 25, 2011

Always gotta pay it forward.

Playing a Reaver for the first time and its a lot of fun. However his lack of gap closing abilities has caused two rather silly deaths. It doesn't help that I've had really bad luck with infusions.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!


I'm currently running a dual-shortstaff Reaver named HIT YOU WITH STICKS.

No regrets.

Humjob
May 31, 2011


What's the most overpowered race/class combo in general? I just downloaded the game and want to win once as easily as possible and become familiar with the game's mechanics.

goldjas
Feb 22, 2009

I HATE ALL FORMS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT. I HATE BEAUTY. I AM GOLDJAS.

Humjob posted:

What's the most overpowered race/class combo in general? I just downloaded the game and want to win once as easily as possible and become familiar with the game's mechanics.

Probably a Solipsist ANYTHING or an Oozemancer ANYTHING.

Besides that, Arcane Blade Skeleton has to be way up there as well.

Glidergun
Mar 4, 2007


Solipsist and Oozemancer are both pretty tough to unlock, though.

Probably the easiest classes to both get and play are Alchemist and Summoner. Alchemist is a starter class, and you pretty much can't go wrong if you 5/5 the first three bomb skills; Summoner can drop animals and then run away, and you unlock it by seeing an enemy summon which typically happens pretty early.

That said, don't expect to win the game on your first character. Hell, don't expect to win the game on your dozenth character.

vulturesrow
Sep 25, 2011

Always gotta pay it forward.

theshim posted:

I'm currently running a dual-shortstaff Reaver named HIT YOU WITH STICKS.

No regrets.

What do you do to mitigate the lack of gap closers Reaver has...also where the heck do you find short staves?

Jowy
Dec 4, 2007

Jesus Christ, it's a Pyro!

vulturesrow posted:

What do you do to mitigate the lack of gap closers Reaver has...also where the heck do you find short staves?

Bone Grab (which has the added benefit of murdering whatever poor fucker you drag to you because it procs Corrupted Strength's free hits after the pull), Dark Portaling near the target (yes, it can target empty space), movement infusions, fists of the desert scorpion/wanderer's rest if you find them. That's really all you need. I guess maybe you can take Giant Leap as a prodigy? A shortstaff reaver can blow things up just fine at a distance, though.

Short is just an ego like any other on staves, a bit uncommon though.

Humjob
May 31, 2011


goldjas posted:

Probably a Solipsist ANYTHING or an Oozemancer ANYTHING.

Besides that, Arcane Blade Skeleton has to be way up there as well.

How should I build an arcane blade skeleton? I tried playing summoner and alchemist and didn't like them very much.

violent sex idiot
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight


Pillbug

spend 20 points on skeleton generics, get dual techniques or whategver lets you use flurry, get as much crit as possible and blow everything up with arcane destruction.

Humjob
May 31, 2011


jsoh posted:

spend 20 points on skeleton generics, get dual techniques or whategver lets you use flurry, get as much crit as possible and blow everything up with arcane destruction.

Sounds good. What about stat distribution? What stats should I increase and in what order?

MiltonSlavemasta
Feb 12, 2009

And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
"When you coming home, dad?"
"I don't know when
We'll get together then son you know we'll have a good time then."


Humjob posted:

Sounds good. What about stat distribution? What stats should I increase and in what order?

This is what I'm playing right now, and it's a little complicated. You want to be able to put a point in Arcane Destruction, at level 12, which means 36 Strength by Level 12. But, you also want to be able to max your on-hit spell of choice. If you plan on doing the sperglord optimal build where you cycle your points until you can max earthern missiles, that's 30 Magic at Level 14 (you cat point Stone at Level 10.) After you handle that, you'll want to be raising Dex because you'll always have a dagger in your off-hand and it's needed for Dual Techniques and increases the proc rate on Greater Weapon Focus.

If you don't want to sperg cycle, I'd suggest 5/5ing Lightning while 5/5ing Arcane Combat, alternating, with Arcane Combat going first. Take the Level 1 point out of Flare if you do this. In this case, cat point Dual techniques at 10 and get a point in flurry ASAP. When you get Arcane Destruction, your Flurry will be crazy. This build takes off faster but is maybe not quite as good in the later parts of the game, but should be plenty good enough.

Your damage will be pretty garbage until you max Arcane Combat, so do that first. A point in Phase Door and 1/5/1/1 Aegis are really important, as is the second skeleton generic. There are so many places to put your generics with this build.

So Something like:
2 Str/1 Mag until Str 36 (with gear)
2 Mag/1 Dex until Mag 30 (with gear)
1 Cun/1 Con/1 Dex for a long time unless you find equipment you want to use.

Oh, and I equipped Morrigor to try it out and the game started glitching like hell. Edit: Can't find out what it is, but almost every other attack generates an error report. Calling this a non-standard victory.

MiltonSlavemasta fucked around with this message at Jan 29, 2014 around 09:18

Stelas
Sep 6, 2010



Humjob posted:

What's the most overpowered race/class combo in general? I just downloaded the game and want to win once as easily as possible and become familiar with the game's mechanics.

To answer your question in a more roundabout route, the game is actively set up so that you start with the simplest classes and unlock the more complex ones as you go. I'd suggest playing a thalore berserker (to blow poo poo up in melee) and a something-that-isn't-shalore alchemist (to get the idea of spells and magical damage boosting with staves/items) but don't worry about actually completing either of them, just try to get unlocks off the back of them.

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


MiltonSlavemasta is right on target, I just want to add that if you do the min/max cheese and go for Earthen Missiles, you'll also get Crystalline Focus as your capstone in that tree. That gives you +10% physical damage and +50% physical resist penetration on every point of Physical damage you do, which is usually what your weapons do.

The Earthen Missiles build is so potent because you harmonize your weapon damage type with your Archmage-style damage buff. The only damage type for which an Arcane Blade can get such a buff is Physical.

The other way to harmonize your weapon damage type is to use a Staff (which can deal Lightning damage, so you can stack up Lightning +% damage gear). The downside here is that you can't go dual-staff, and you need 20 dex anyway for Flurry, and the Staff Combat tree is in your distant future (500 gold distance to be specific). The upside is that your Accuracy points are converted into "+4% proc / acc", which means your Arcane Combat spell procs -- that's the nerd name for spells you auto-cast when you hit something -- will be buffed by the difference between your accuracy and your opponent's defense. This can be significant, especially with absurd randarts that grant +80 accuracy or whatever. "Spell procs" also includes stuff like the beam Cryste's Astral Bindings sometimes shoot out.


EDIT: oh hey new addon contest:
http://te4.org/blogs/darkgod/2014/0...ns-contest-2014

Dodge Charms fucked around with this message at Jan 29, 2014 around 09:51

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."

Grimey Drawer

My first winner!

a higher shadowblade Not having immediate access to time magic was a bit of a pain leading to my early deaths, but once I could spam shadowstep/rush/time shield for free I was basically unstoppable. Finished the game leaving all portals open and took Atamathon down like a chump though I did need cauterise and a teleport away to recharge.

5/5 would play again.

A Meat
Jun 28, 2013

CERTIFIED FRESH AS HELL DOC MAKER



Is there actually any possible way to fix Empathic Hex and Martyrdom to be useful without being debilitating when used against you by an rear end in a top hat rare?

Honestly a problem similar to what my problem with grappling is. I'm generally terrified of Oozing Horrors, since they can generally unexpectedly totally shut you down, because grappling is effective against one target. But for the player character it's useless, you'll rarely encounter one enemies, you'll usually be swimming in dragon hatchlings and skeleton warriors, choking one of them isn't going to help you with all one other ones. However, if you make changes to grappling and make it more useful you'll need to add skills that the AI can't really use effectively so they won't be a nightmare to fight.

Dodge Charms
May 30, 2013


A Meat posted:

Is there actually any possible way to fix Empathic Hex and Martyrdom to be useful without being debilitating when used against you by an rear end in a top hat rare?
Maybe make them only return damage which the victim does to the caster? So if you're smart player, you just attack the Hexer's friends while waiting for the Hex to wear off.

A Meat posted:

Honestly a problem similar to what my problem with grappling is. I'm generally terrified of Oozing Horrors, since they can generally unexpectedly totally shut you down, because grappling is effective against one target. But for the player character it's useless, you'll rarely encounter one enemies, you'll usually be swimming in dragon hatchlings and skeleton warriors, choking one of them isn't going to help you with all one other ones. However, if you make changes to grappling and make it more useful you'll need to add skills that the AI can't really use effectively so they won't be a nightmare to fight.
My idea for Grappling is to let you use your grappled foe as a meat-shield, sending some % of the damage you take to it until it dies. Then it's more useful vs. a group than a single foe, and thus the player isn't going to get more wrecked than usual.

A Meat
Jun 28, 2013

CERTIFIED FRESH AS HELL DOC MAKER



Dodge Charms posted:

My idea for Grappling is to let you use your grappled foe as a meat-shield, sending some % of the damage you take to it until it dies. Then it's more useful vs. a group than a single foe, and thus the player isn't going to get more wrecked than usual.

I agree wholeheartedly, and Grappling (Brawlers in general) is something I'd really like to see reworked, I want to suplex me some horrors.

Honestly, an interesting way to do this kind of tree would be to have skills that scale with the grappled's(grapplee?) stats. Use a dude as a mortal shield? Scale it with it's Constitution. Swing a dude around and knock others away? Scale it with it's size catergory/armor. Use a dude to ram through a line of enemies? Scale it with it's Strength.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!


vulturesrow posted:

What do you do to mitigate the lack of gap closers Reaver has...also where the heck do you find short staves?
The hardest part about HIT YOU WITH STICKS is the early game, because short is an infuriatingly rare ego early on. In my two tries (first died in Dreadfell because I'm bad at ToME) I found a grand total of one in the shops for each (check the Shalore town!). Since I'm not pumping Weapon Mastery or Strength at all, your damage is rather low early on.

Once you get at least one short staff you start getting out of hand. Your up-close burst goes crazy and your spellpower is almost as good as a Corruptor's, meaning your Drain and diseases start doing hilarious amounts of damage. With two short staves you get massive extra percentages of blight damage and spellpower, and you hit like the several monster trucks Reavers always do thanks to staves scaling off Magic.

If you get an early Alchemist escort it's worth cat pointing Stone Alchemy at 10, since you're going to be hemorrhaging cash early to get a short staff and Staff Mastery. I actually picked up both Stone Alchemy and Celestial Light on HIT YOU WITH STICKS, and though I've already died a whole bunch of times, I'm hitting his full stride really hard right now and I wouldn't be surprised if he just runs through the rest of the game as a blackened corrupted blur of disease, murder, and hitting things hilariously hard with sticks.

violent sex idiot
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight


Pillbug

If you cast healing light and whatnot does it still hit the bad guy next to you with sticks. If so thats really funny.

deptstoremook
Jan 12, 2004
my mom got scared and said "you're moving with your Aunt and Uncle in Bel-Air!"


So I was thinking, Arcane Blade was fun, but by the endgame you still need to push two or sometimes even three buttons to kill guys. Corona Anorithil is nice but what if you just can't put out enough damage to kill elites and bosses? Plus, those stupid bolts move slow so you might miss the enemies and have to actually push a button.

Finally, there's a solution: 5, 5, 5, He Sighed is my first attempt at building a zero-engagement character. Key trees include:
  • Spell/Air (lightning bolts)
  • Celestial/Eclipse (light and darkness bolts)
  • Psionic/Discharge (brain bolts)
Support trees are used to advance the critical principle of "pushing 5 until you can push Z":
  • Spell/Storm
  • Celestial/Star Fury (Twilight Surge on autocast, naturally)
  • Psionic/Feedback (for more brain bolts)
  • Celestial/Hymns (darkness beams)
  • Psionic/Dream Forge (sick bassline to jam out to)
And finally, a couple extraneous trees:
  • Psionic/Absorption (shields! Wield 2 or 3 staves!)
  • Spell/Stone Alchemy (for making it rain)
  • Celestial/Light (heal)
It's a rough start, but with liberal assistance from the item vault, he's absolutely steamrolling nightmare and was able to "wait" through the Master. If I were to make refinements on a future run, I'd suck it up and drop Celestial/Light, and maybe replace Feedback for a damage-boosting tree or another thunderstorm-style skill (if there is one).

jsoh posted:

If you cast healing light and whatnot does it still hit the bad guy next to you with sticks. If so thats really funny.

For roleplaying purposes, it might be helpful to imagine your dude is from one of Maj'Eyal's proud Italian families or something so he gesticulates wildly while casting any spell.

The Man From Melmac
Sep 8, 2008


It's been so long since I last played I need someone to suggest me a dungeon order. I tried winging it and when I got to the last boss of a dungeon I got stunlocked and destroyed.

deptstoremook
Jan 12, 2004
my mom got scared and said "you're moving with your Aunt and Uncle in Bel-Air!"


Dexters Secret posted:

It's been so long since I last played I need someone to suggest me a dungeon order. I tried winging it and when I got to the last boss of a dungeon I got stunlocked and destroyed.

I like to go:
  • (Racial starter)
  • Trollmire 1-3
  • Norgos' Lair
  • Heart of the Gloom
  • Arena
  • Trollmire 4
  • Old Forest 1-4, go down the stairs to Lake Nur
  • Kor'Pul, go into Dreadfell and leave, go into the Last Hope Graveyard and leave
  • Maze
  • Sandworm Lair
  • Daikara
  • Halfling Ruins
  • Ruined Dungeon
  • Golem Graveyard
  • Dreadfell

Do Lumberjack Village and the Merchant quest whenever, but if you have a hard time with the Merchant quest avoid walking around on the world map as long as possible. I usually just skip the Miranda quest now.

Wilde Jagd
Jan 2, 2014

by XyloJW


Dodge Charms posted:

Relevant code seems to be:
game:setAllowedBuild("cosmetic_class_alchemist_drolem", true)

Awesome, it worked! Unfortunate that it's only a donation feature, though.

On an unrelated note, I've been having difficulty making a Higher Wildfire Archmage work at early levels. I just don't have the survivability and Displacement Shield is kinda balls at general damage mitigation. I've been rushing Wildfire at level 10, but I feel like getting Temporal first for that shield skill would be better. Should I just make a Cornac and get Temporal at level 1?

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No Safe Word
Feb 26, 2005



deptstoremook posted:

I like to go:
  • (Racial starter)
  • Trollmire 1-3
  • Norgos' Lair
  • Heart of the Gloom
  • Arena
  • Trollmire 4
  • Old Forest 1-4, go down the stairs to Lake Nur
  • Kor'Pul, go into Dreadfell and leave, go into the Last Hope Graveyard and leave
  • Maze
  • Sandworm Lair
  • Daikara
  • Halfling Ruins
  • Ruined Dungeon
  • Golem Graveyard
  • Dreadfell

Do Lumberjack Village and the Merchant quest whenever, but if you have a hard time with the Merchant quest avoid walking around on the world map as long as possible. I usually just skip the Miranda quest now.
You skipped Rhaloren Camp and Scintillating Caves, though I assume they're around Old Forest somewhere.

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