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3 Words. gently caress THAT BITCH.
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Feb 26, 2014 20:14
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Zetta_Slow posted:Ah, knew the camera was on the whole time. Honestly wish Ueno wasn't being such a hard obstacle to overcome, but really where is the fun in a nice and easy story? I seriously hate Ueno now though, and I really don't want Ishida talking to Shimada & Hirose again, I've got a feeling that they are just as toxic as Ueno. Ishida originally blamed Shouko for his predicament, but realized it was his fault and how lovely he was and now wants to make amends. Ueno & co. still blame Shouko for why they were lovely to Ishida. They're terrible people. Even fat shakey guy whos name I forget is weirdly toxic to people. Hes a strange character.
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Feb 26, 2014 20:25
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KoB posted:Ishida originally blamed Shouko for his predicament, but realized it was his fault and how lovely he was and now wants to make amends. So far we only know that Ueno still blames Shouko. Kawai's kind of a wild card. And Nagatsuka's toxic because he's super-clingy and super-awkward and most people are going to get real tired of that real fast.
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Feb 26, 2014 20:45
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And to thought than I was seriously considering Ueno like a legitimate Love Interest for Shouya when we met her a few months ago. Is amazing how the author made Ueno cross the Moral Event Horizon in such way than there's no coming back for her and yet, the logic she's using is pretty common and I could see a lot of people I know pulling that kind of poo poo The fact that the reasoning Ueno uses is something I've seen other people use to justify their lovely behavior is just eugh. It makes it all the more horrible
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Feb 26, 2014 21:06
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Goddamn, I try to be defense attorney for characters like Ueno, but if someone submitted that video tape as evidence, I'd just throw my hands up and walk out of the court. Ueno, you are guilty as charged for being a first-rate oval office; I hope you gain some perspective eventually and move out of that phase. Seriously, at first I thought that maybe she had some good points about life and friendship that were being clouded and misinterpreted by Ishida's paranoia/depression and Ueno's generally rude disposition, especially after we saw how she became friends with Sahara, but...ugh. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that Ueno is one of the best 'villains' we've seen in a long time due to how REAL she is. Can't wait to see what happens.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:06
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FutureCop posted:Goddamn, I try to be defense attorney for characters like Ueno, but if someone submitted that video tape as evidence, I'd just throw my hands up and walk out of the court. Ueno, you are guilty as charged for being a first-rate oval office; I hope you gain some perspective eventually and move out of that phase. Seriously, at first I thought that maybe she had some good points about life and friendship that were being clouded and misinterpreted by Ishida's paranoia/depression and Ueno's generally rude disposition, especially after we saw how she became friends with Sahara, but...ugh. The saddest thing is than unlike her treatment of Nagatsuka, she really believes than Shouko's the one in the wrong here and isn't doing it by malice. 
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Feb 26, 2014 23:18
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Well poo poo, Ueno's going into my shitlist now. Bitch Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And to thought than I was seriously considering Ueno like a legitimate Love Interest for Shouya when we met her a few months ago. Is amazing how the author made Ueno cross the Moral Event Horizon in such way than there's no coming back for her and yet, the logic she's using is pretty common and I could see a lot of people I know pulling that kind of poo poo Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The saddest thing is than unlike her treatment of Nagatsuka, she really believes than Shouko's the one in the wrong here and isn't doing it by malice. I'd have pointed this out in PM's if you had them, but, er-- you know that it's supposed to be "that" not "than", right? My apologies in advance if you're not a native English speaker, though!
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Feb 27, 2014 00:14
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DrSunshine posted:I'd have pointed this out in PM's if you had them, but, er-- you know that it's supposed to be "that" not "than", right? My apologies in advance if you're not a native English speaker, though! Well poo poo, so much for my english classes. Yeah, I'm not a native english speaker so glaring mistakes like those happen sometimes. I'll be more careful on the future, thanks for the heads up!
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Feb 27, 2014 01:56
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I pretty much expect the opening to next week's chapter being Shouya slapping Ueno. I'm loving the nose-dive into darkness again.
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Feb 27, 2014 05:38
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Well poo poo, so much for my english classes. Yeah, I'm not a native english speaker so glaring mistakes like those happen sometimes. I'll be more careful on the future, thanks for the heads up! in the future. Also I think you guys are overreacting. Didn't Ueno slap Shouko because she was a pile of self pity? Maybe next chapter she will tell Shouko to stop blaming all her problems on her deafness.
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Feb 27, 2014 07:50
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nerdz posted:in the future. No, the bit people are upset about is Ueno implying they were both equally at fault for what happened when they were younger. She implies that is Shouko hadn't been so visibly different and encouraged teasing then Ueno wouldn't have joined in on bullying Ishida and the everything would be different. She's laying her own actions of ostracizing Ishida on Shouko's shoulders. I expect you're more or less right about why Ueno slapped Shouko, but it doesn't change the fact that she hates someone for being different in a way they can't control which provoked her to do lovely things.
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Feb 27, 2014 08:33
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nerdz posted:in the future. For me, it's not so much the slapping of Shouko as much as it was the, "I hate you, let's mutually hate each other!" and "I don't think I'm wrong for making GBS threads on you back then so I don't have to own up to my lovely behavior then and now." Whatever the exact reason for slapping, how Ueno presented herself to Shouko is downright awful toxic behavior.
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Feb 27, 2014 08:35
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nerdz posted:in the future. Her Slapping Shouko is one thing (which she is still in the wrong for. That's no justification for assault), it's her going "Yep, I was always in the right to Bully you so gently caress you. But hey, let's just be hateful at each other and leave you with all the emotional baggage whilst I live my life guilt free, OK?" (Paraphrased) that pisses me off to no end. ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 21:07
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It's another way in how she's kind of a dark mirror of Shouya. She's trying to fix the past/get others to reconcile and make up and so far all of them (Sahara, Shouya, Shouko, thinking that Shimada and Shouya meeting again will mean they're friends) are half-assed and insincere. She thinks you just say "let's move on" and that's that as opposed to Shouya whose attempts to fix the past are way more genuine and its obvious that things eat at him. Which, again, comes down to one party putting all of the blame on themselves while the other puts all of the blame on everyone else.
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Feb 27, 2014 22:15
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Yuzuru's camera has so far proven to be one of the best supporting characters.
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Mar 1, 2014 09:07
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Haha, y'all sure do love extreme reactions. Sure she's being mean as all hell, but it's pretty understandable. Ueno (like everyone in this freaking comic) was pretty traumatized by her childhood circle of friends becoming completely fractured. It's unfortunate, but frankly completely realistic that a teenage girl will hold the person different enough to cause the fracture personally responsible. Honestly, I totally get her thought process. Ueno ruined Shouko's childhood, Shouko ruined hers. That's not something they're gonna forgive each other for, so they might as well have their grudges out in the open. Immediately going for the "That loving bitch I hate her so much" reaction is, dare I say, along the same line as the thought process above. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 09:40
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That's just victim blaming really. A bully is blaming the bullied for fracturing their group? That's just shifting the blame. Yeah she's a teenager and teenager are dumb but still it's still a hosed up thought process
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Mar 3, 2014 09:44
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A big flaming stink posted:Honestly, I totally get her thought process. Ueno ruined Shouko's childhood, Shouko ruined hers. That's not something they're gonna forgive each other for, so they might as well have their grudges out in the open. Yeah, Shouko really ruined Ueno's childhood by forcing Ueno to first bully Shouko and then bully Ishida for years after Shouko fled the school. I don't know how Shouko could have been so cruel.
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Mar 3, 2014 10:28
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A big flaming stink posted:Haha, y'all sure do love extreme reactions. Sure she's being mean as all hell, but it's pretty understandable. Ueno (like everyone in this freaking comic) was pretty traumatized by her childhood circle of friends becoming completely fractured. It's unfortunate, but frankly completely realistic that a teenage girl will hold the person different enough to cause the fracture personally responsible. Ueno is a really horrible person as it stands in the series. That's not to say she's unable to fix her incredibly terrible attitude down the line, like Shouya did. But right now she's clearly not grown up very much if she's actually pulling this poo poo with Shouko. Shouko probably said "I hate myself" because of the constant bullying making it seem to her that she's the one with the problem, not other people being super intolerant. This happens a lot to people with disabilities, surprisingly enough! Like she literally pulled Shouko into a private space where she couldn't escape to try and make her accept her existence causes suffering and that she is a hated creature. It was unbelievably cruel of her. And then to try and shake hands with "let's agree to mutually hate each other", wow. She's able to hide her horrible other side really well, but when it comes out(how about that Nagatsuka flip-out? Going from calm and composed to a frothing, hateful lunatic in seconds). Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 15:14
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Not saying Ueno isn't wonderfully awful but guys lets stop getting in a hate jerk about a fictional teenage girl.
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Mar 3, 2014 16:00
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Ueno is a great character, as evidenced by all the strong reactions in here. I find reading her dialogue extremely uncomfortable. I think her attitude is pretty much unforgivable, but I understand it too well. So many people prefer to blame others for their own bad behaviour rather than acknowledge their own culpability. It's easier. My friends and I justified picking on kids at school because 'they're so annoying', 'the way he acts, he's asking for it'. It's more comfortable to maintain a bitchy teenage clique if your actions are a reaction to an external factor, like someone being fat, or poo poo at football, or a swot, or different in 'bad' way. I'd like to say I'm glad that I never did anything like what Ueno and co did to Shouko, but whenever I think back to how I acted as a teenager, I feel a cold coil of guilt and anger in my gut. Back then the anger would've been directed at the victims for causing me to feel that guilt, like Ueno, now it's directed at my past self. I blasted through this at the weekend and I wish I'd just waited until the manga is finished because the interval between chapters is going to be unbearable. Captain Invictus posted:She's able to hide her horrible other side really well, but when it comes out...
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Mar 3, 2014 16:45
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KnK is weekly. Imagine waiting a month for it like fuckin' I'm In Mari, or Flowers of Evil, which move at positively glacial paces.The Devil Tesla posted:Not saying Ueno isn't wonderfully awful but guys lets stop getting in a hate jerk about a fictional teenage girl. Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 16:54
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The Devil Tesla posted:Not saying Ueno isn't wonderfully awful but guys lets stop getting in a hate jerk about a fictional teenage girl. Hatejerk? What on earth are you even on about? And just because a character and an action is fictional doesn't mean it's any less despicable really and pointing out her actions are terrible to someone defending them is not a hatejerk.
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Mar 3, 2014 17:30
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Sorry, that wasn't directed at Invictus as much as the last page of posts. A big flaming stink's post was weird and stupid and implies that Shouko did something wrong (???) but lets not use that as an excuse to list of all the reasons we have a personal grudge against a made up bully. Whatever goals the mangaka had for her character they probably weren't "get a bunch of goons seriously upset at her existence".
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Mar 3, 2014 18:03
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And like come on, she's not even the least sympathetic character in the story. That honor goes to Shouya's old bully buddies.
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Mar 3, 2014 18:05
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The Devil Tesla posted:And like come on, she's not even the least sympathetic character in the story. That honor goes to Shouya's old bully buddies. Oh there's no denying that. Class Rep in particular. But the story right now is focusing on her and she's portrayed as a pretty controversial character with extremely questionable motives and reasoning which does provoke a reaction. I have a feeling the mangaka will put the focus on the different bullies as the manga goes on and the thread will react to them in time, but now it's Ueno and she's extremely unpleasant.
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Mar 3, 2014 18:13
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Well we haven't seen much with Shimada yet. We know he continued making sure nobody talked to Shouya in middle school but afterwards, who knows? He's obviously not out of the story yet. Hirose, in the earlier chapters, come off very much like a follower: as soon as Shimada stops doing their tests of courage Hirose immediately tells Shouya how he's wanted to say for a while that they need to stop so it'll be interesting when he comes in and how he feels about what happened. Honestly the most despicable character in the series so far was the elementary school teacher not only because he turned a blind eye but because he actively joined in at points in laughing at Shouko and treating her as even more of a burden than the kids were. A big flaming stink posted:Haha, y'all sure do love extreme reactions. Sure she's being mean as all hell, but it's pretty understandable. Ueno (like everyone in this freaking comic) was pretty traumatized by her childhood circle of friends becoming completely fractured. It's unfortunate, but frankly completely realistic that a teenage girl will hold the person different enough to cause the fracture personally responsible. Who's the one who abandoned who though? Ueno was the first person to throw Shouya under the bus and between then and now the only time she talked to him in the intervening years was one time in middle school to make fun of him (asking if he's still a virgin). Whatever "point" she may have, she's not on any sort of moral high ground to make judgements about how other people ruined lives.
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Mar 3, 2014 18:13
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Um, I thought it was clear, but I'm describing Ueno's thought process, not saying that Shouko actually did something wrong. Seriously, she's a pretty awful, self-centered person who cannot even consider the attitude of someone else, but she's not some sort of horrible scum because of this. Her response is pretty typical of a teenage girl with a cruel streak. Kids are assholes. quote:Honestly the most despicable character in the series so far was the elementary school teacher not only because he turned a blind eye but because he actively joined in at points in laughing at Shouko and treating her as even more of a burden than the kids were. Now this guy was scum. Using his position as a role model to institutionalize bullying? Given tacit approval to Shouya when he was mean to Shouko and then blaming him for his own bullying? Jesus christ what a complete failure of a teacher. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 20:47
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A big flaming stink posted:Um, I thought it was clear, but I'm describing Ueno's thought process, not saying that Shouko actually did something wrong. Yeah her attitude is pretty realistic which is why it hits harder than your typical antagonist nebulous thought process. And yeah gently caress that teacher seriously. Terrible
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Mar 3, 2014 20:58
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Between this, GTO and Assasination Classroom, the Japanese education system seems to be really hosed up.
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Mar 3, 2014 21:02
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Between this, GTO and Assasination Classroom, the Japanese education system seems to be really hosed up. Japanese schools don't actually hire octopuses who can destroy the planet. Hope that helps.
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Mar 3, 2014 22:23
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vkeios posted:Japanese schools don't actually hire octopuses who can destroy the planet. Hope that helps. I was thinking about the fact all of these mangas depict than in japanese schools only aspects and results matters. That if you can't deliver the expected results in the timeframe expected they can and will left you behind.
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Mar 3, 2014 22:32
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I was thinking about the fact all of these mangas depict than in japanese schools only aspects and results matters. That if you can't deliver the expected results in the timeframe expected they can and will left you behind. it's more you're completely railroaded starting from elementary school via entrance exams. gently caress up on the middle school exam and you're probably not ever going to get back on the top tier advancement line, which locks you out of best highschools, colleges, and jobs. Also their methods of teaching are completely horrible but Japan sure as hell doesn't own that 
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Mar 3, 2014 22:51
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A big flaming stink posted:Now this guy was scum. Using his position as a role model to institutionalize bullying? Given tacit approval to Shouya when he was mean to Shouko and then blaming him for his own bullying? Jesus christ what a complete failure of a teacher. Unfortunately that seems to be a really common thing with ijime: it often becomes one person singled out by the entire class with the teacher going along with it because to do otherwise would disrupt things even more. http://thisjapaneselife.org/2013/06/12/japan-ijime-bullies/ quote:Teachers often don’t have the training – or the time – to spend on educating the perpetrators and victims of bullying. A Mainichi Shimbun survey found that 70 percent of teachers would like to do more to prevent bullying but simply don’t have time, being responsible for covering smaller staff sizes, more surveys and paperwork, class prep and other job-related stresses.
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Mar 3, 2014 23:31
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Have any of you read A Tale for the Time Being by Ruth Ozeki? It deals with similar issues and there's some explanation of how comprehensive ijime can be.
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Mar 3, 2014 23:40
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Chapter 28 In which Ishida finally declares his love for bread.
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Mar 5, 2014 03:28
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I guess the fact that the thing between Ueno and Shouko is firmly between them and Shouya and Yuzuru know better than to interfere. Shouko's growing up after all.
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Mar 5, 2014 03:43
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Oh my god, Shouya and Shouko are so CUTE  And Ueno once again left me  am I insane by thinking than she kind of had a point there?
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Mar 5, 2014 05:37
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I just imagine the way their conversations go, with all the hand gesturing and intense eye glaring. THIS BREAD IS CUTE!
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Mar 5, 2014 05:55
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I like how one chapter is one of the biggest "oh holy poo poo" moments, then the next is fairly funny given that Shouya is not only spilling spaghetti everywhere but he's pretty much rolling around in it. Especially with Sahara and Yuzuru's "yeah, let's just go over there..." look.Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Oh my god, Shouya and Shouko are so CUTE She has a point, it's just that she goes about it like a pretty lovely person.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:05
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