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A RICH WHITE MAN
Jul 30, 2010

See them other chickenheads? They don't never leave the coop.


sniper4625 posted:

Perhaps a lawyer, or a specialist in criminal science should head the commission? Rather than a body created for potential political gain, I encourage th creation of a truly non-partisan, unbiased investigatory body.

This is of course no slight against Katsu-san, a man of famed and prodigal mercantile talents.

Katsu Kaishū (勝 海舟)


I must confess confusion the statement made by Monsieur Brunet earlier today; while his service to Ezo is appreciated, his weighing in on such heated internal events and debate is inappropriate. You are no member of government, sir, nor are you Japanese; do not presume to tell us how to investigate the death of a national treasure.

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sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd


As a member of the Presidents Cabinet, it is my understanding that I am a part of the government? I will admit some confusion as to the exact role of my relationship to the government of Ezo - if one of the preeminent legal scholars (GMs?) would like to enlighten me, I would be most grateful.

Regardless, such xenophobic talk is to be condemned. Let us not forget that the recently bereaved groom is a Briton- this is no pure Japanese affair. To reject calls for a qualified head of the investigatory committee with offensive attempts at misdirection speaks to the ill intentions of our Trader friend.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



A RICH WHITE MAN posted:

Katsu Kaishū (勝 海舟)



I can oppose it, and I will. It is inappropriate for a Supreme Court Justice to act in the capacity of a prosecutor and investigator; as it is, the Court will have oversight on any finding by this Committee by virtue of appointing the judges that shall preside over any case resulting from our findings. Further, I find your veiled assault on my honor to be distasteful; what do I, Katsu Kaishū, have to "gain"? Where is the conflict of interests? I demand that you elaborate on your vile accusations if you are to make them.

It is, further, interesting for me to see a man so known for his hatred of the Gaijin, so known for his friendship with Matsudaira Sadaaki, speak up in the interests of "fairness" in this investigation.

If the president is acquitted of any wrongdoing then his decision to appoint you as naval minister stands. This is a clear conflict of interests. How can you fairly chair a committee investigating a crime that the president stands accused of if you can gain a cabinet position with his innocence?

I will admit that I am biased towards my sworn brother, but I do not recall appointing myself chairman of the board sent to investigate his alleged crime. I admit to hating the gaijin, but I would never endorse a coward's tactics against them. To suggest these things impugns on my honour.

If you oppose the chief justice chairing this investigation on those grounds, at least allow him to choose impartial investigators.

Namtab fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2014 around 20:46

cxcxxxxx
Sep 7, 2013

It is not possible to eat me without insisting that I sing praises of my devourer?


Tokugawa Kamenosuke, shogun, hero of the battle of Sado, shinto devoutee, brother to a murdered sister.

Recently and at the expense of the Tokugawa family, I have expanded and worked the mines on sado, that recently fell into my ownership. Amidst the explosions of rock, and deep snaking tunnels, several new gold deposits have been located, and Im now accepting proposals to how this gold could best benefit our nations government. Of course I will be working closely with the finance minister concerning this, but I feel ideas should be allowed to be proposed. I will be taking a small amount personally to reimburse the families of the few men who died in faulty blasts, and cave ins to the benefit of our great nation.

Friar John
Aug 3, 2007

Saint Francis be my speed! how oft to-night
Have my old feet stumbled at graves!

Kasuga Saemon (S)

Letter to Hijikata Toshizō posted:

Thank you for your recent letter, Toshizo, it is most appreciated. I see Friar Takahiro has been sending you his drafts for the translation of City of God - it is a fine work so far, and I will be glad to see it completed. But you are very correct - some men are called to the cloister, but those who aren't must not be afraid to be called upon to work for the common good. Should this proposed investigatory committee be passed, I shall see you in the halls of the capital as a fellow public servant. Though I must confess, I am unsure why I was nominated, seeing as I was almost killed there as well.
As always,
Your Friend,
Kasuga Saemon

cxcxxxxx
Sep 7, 2013

It is not possible to eat me without insisting that I sing praises of my devourer?


Tokugawa Kamenosuke, shogun, hero of the battle of Sado, shinto devoutee, brother to a murdered sister, mode.
With attempts on my life ever more frequent, I am announcing the construction of my new summer home.





The blue represents fields of fire from the walls, the purple dots are fougasse mines, the orange are pipelines to pump oils into the moat so it may be set on fire. Now the green is an area predesignated by artillery, in case the green is lost. The black is an inner perimeter so that I may commit honorable seppuku if my summer home should fall. oh did I mention that I will be placing orphanages on all points of the star to prevent return fire by artillery? This being of utter necessity for my personal security and mental well-being, construction will be started immediately.

cxcxxxxx fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 00:03

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

Horace Capron



Before anything else, my deepest condolences to the Shogun and Captain Blakiston. I hope justice will soon be done to the perpetrators of this act. I hope to see stability return politically as well, for the good of the Ezo Republic. I do not believe it would be proper for me to get involved, so I will focus on the job I was brought here for, the continuing economical development of this place.

We do indeed have a rather generous room in our budget. In my role as economical advisor, let me run over a few options.

1 Repaying Debt

This would have a sure impact on coming budget, as money we pay towards that will reduce the interest we'll need to pay. It might very well increase our standing, as we show that we are a financially solvable nation. For now, I do not recommend this. There are many opportunities that would bring us a much greater return on our investments, both financially and otherwise, than the interest, and France and England are still patient. Besides, as long as we owe them money, they have a stake in the survival of our republic, since if the Meiji were to take us over, they would likely not take over the debt, and they would have lost their money. We should do this when we have less opportunities for growth.

2: Navy Infrastructure

If this nation is to become independent from western nations, it cannot continue to depend on them for its survival. As things are, it is the fleet that keeps the Ezo Republic alive, and each battleworthy ship there has been fabricated elsewhere. An investment here would not only strengthen our position against the Meiji, but also increase our stature among other nations. The disadvantadge here is that this will not give us any monetary return. We will need to set up the infrastructure, we will need to bring people educated in the matters and train Ezo citizens, we will need to either import coal and iron, or find and exploit local resources. I would not wait too long for this, but I'm not sure if our economy can support such an ambitious project at this moment.

3: Agricultural investment

This land is fertile and promising, and we could easily set up several crops here. With the right amount of technology, we could grow large amounts of food. Considering China is currently a famine, we might very well get an excellent price for any overproduction. A feeling of security to famine also encourages people to expand their families. A fair amount of land has been cleared by the Aizu already. The question is who will work it. What I propose is that we take some of the veteran non-Samurai, both from the last conflict and the one that birthed this nation. We give them some of the prime land to work, with light dues, free training in modern farming techniques and we have the government purchase the machinery, then lease it to those farmers.

4: Industrial Investment


It is already open to foreign investors. And I consider my own investments in the country a matter of 'putting my money where my mouth is' There are many resources this land has. But my own search was mainly for agriculture. We could organize a search for new veins of ore in these mountains. Then there is the woodcutting. Currently, we cut trees, but there is not a proper timber industry. I believe, in cooperation with the Aizu, government and foreign investors, we could create woodmills, and from there fishing ships can be constructed, as well as furniture and many other goods. Construction projects would be a lot easier with ample supplies of timber.

5: Logistical investment.


The island is currently sill rather untamed. Constructions of road has alreadys tarted, but more is on the way. And of course, railroads are made. Trains would be a boon in getting any resources from one end of the island to the other quickly, and can be used for troop transport. I know there are private citizens that seek to invest in them though. Which would mean they would profit form it, but we'd have resources free to invest elsewhere.


edit: corrected numbering

Shogeton fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 00:09

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



2 sounds great, additional independance and improved defences against the meiji are things that we desperately need right now. My holdings on sado contain coal mines that I would be happy to contribute to this cause.

3 (the first one) would also be fantastic, additional food to support the hardworking men and women of Ezo, honest work for the non-samurai, and the opportunity to export excesses to help us invest in maintaining independance.

Litos
Feb 2, 2013


I'd like to take this time to submit a bill considering the use of neutrocellulose.

Litos fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 02:25

A RICH WHITE MAN
Jul 30, 2010

See them other chickenheads? They don't never leave the coop.


Namtab posted:

If the president is acquitted of any wrongdoing then his decision to appoint you as naval minister stands. This is a clear conflict of interests. How can you fairly chair a committee investigating a crime that the president stands accused of if you can gain a cabinet position with his innocence?

I will admit that I am biased towards my sworn brother, but I do not recall appointing myself chairman of the board sent to investigate his alleged crime. I admit to hating the gaijin, but I would never endorse a coward's tactics against them. To suggest these things impugns on my honour.

If you oppose the chief justice chairing this investigation on those grounds, at least allow him to choose impartial investigators.

Katsu Kaishū (勝 海舟)


The Chief Justice cannot appoint investgator, prosecutor, and judge; this is a clear conflict of interests. If I were to step down as a nominee, would it ease your troubled mind? As it is, I fear giving up my seat in Congress would do a great disservice to those who I represent.

A RICH WHITE MAN fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 03:24

Jenkem Delivery
Feb 8, 2005

Death created time to grow the things that it would kill

Matsudaira Tarou - Vice President




I respectfully include my name for consideration to head the commission. I feel I can fairly weigh the facts of the case and find out who was responsible for the abhorrent attack.

Jenkem Delivery fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 04:42

vanukar
Jan 16, 2014



Signing up as Igarashi Takehiko of the Freedom Faction, if I may.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



A RICH WHITE MAN posted:

Katsu Kaishū (勝 海舟)


The Chief Justice cannot appoint investgator, prosecutor, and judge; this is a clear conflict of interests. If I were to step down as a nominee, would it ease your troubled mind? As it is, I fear giving up my seat in Congress would do a great disservice to those who I represent.

This is acceptable, I would be happy to second an amended bill with the vice president chairing the committee.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012



Takenaka Shigekata
Chief Justice of the Ezo Supreme Court

A RICH WHITE MAN posted:

Katsu Kaishū (勝 海舟)


The Chief Justice cannot appoint investgator, prosecutor, and judge; this is a clear conflict of interests. If I were to step down as a nominee, would it ease your troubled mind? As it is, I fear giving up my seat in Congress would do a great disservice to those who I represent.

I believe the arrangement proposed by the President was for both the Shogun and myself to serve in an advisory capacity in the appointment of an investigator. While direct appointment as Chief Justice would be a conflict of interest and violation of the separation of powers, it is completely within my purview to offer recommendations in an unofficial capacity. The President or Congress makes the ultimate decision.

That said, the Shogun and I would recommend Jules Brunet to chair the investigation. He is a distinguished member of society, whose involvement in the case would grant it greater legitimacy. While some may protest his involvement because he is foreign, I feel this attribute is actually a strength. He is not indebted to any part of Ezo's political system. He is also one of the few individuals who did not attend the wedding ceremony and can be cleared of all blame.

My alternative recommendation would be Vice President Matsudaira Tarou. He, like Brunet, did not attend the wedding and has remained distant from the political arena. It is highly unlikely that he had any involvement in the incident. In his role as President of the Congress, he can also communicate well with both the legislative and executive branches. My only concern is that appointing him to a commission may set forth a precedent where the Vice President becomes de facto Attorney General.

I would also recommend that Ezo immediately contact the British government and cooperate with them on the issue before the attack becomes an international incident. The death of four British subjects is a matter of grave concern and the United Kingdom may wish to offer some assistance in uncovering the perpetrator.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 14:04

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd


Jules Brunet

I accept. Let the wheels of justice turn!

Ramba Ral
Feb 18, 2009

"The basis of the Juche Idea is that man is the master of all things and the decisive factor in everything."
- Kim Il-Sung


Ataman Hijikata Toshizō, The Demon of the Shinsengumi


I know there is a lot of vitriol going on right now, but I do want to propose this bill.

quote:

Bill 3-5
Bill 3-5: The Foundation for Our National Police Force

Two of our current credits will be allocated to help build a school for not only the Shinsengumi but also the nation's police force of Ezo under the guidance of the security magistrate. There will be veteran instructors, a firing range, various tactics taught to them to help keep public order and fight alongside our military brethren if war comes to the home. There will be other accommodations provided to help facilitate security in our country.



quote:

Letter to Kasuga Saemon
Dear Kasuga Saemon,

Good to hear that, and yes, I've been reading his works. I do have to say, despite the fact this Augustine is from another part of the world. It seems like the very things he talks about are still pertinent to us today. Especially when he talks about the lack of civic virtue that Rome once had with Cincinnatus, but I digress we can talk more about the book later.

And you should take heart, they see you a man who is best able to seek justice as Christ once said in the Beatitudes.

I suggest we talk in more personal detail later on what to do. Please let's talk when we are both free.

Your brother,
Ataman Hijikata Toshizō

Fall Sick and Die
Nov 22, 2003




I'd like to thank Mr. Capron for his wise suggestions. I assure him that, after this squabble is settled, we shall continue on as before, development and self-strengthening are the key to Ezo's future.

I also support our Interior Minister's bill for the professionalization of the police force, which I think could not come at a better time.

I do not wish to wade too deeply into the matter of the investigations of the Shogun's wedding tragedy, not because I am disinterested but because I do not wish to have anyone think I am attempting to influence the results. My own opinion is that whoever is recommended to me and passes the muster of the Supreme Court, the Shogun and Mr. Thomas Blakiston will be suitable, and I will be more than happy to appoint them as a special prosecutor. If all are agreed upon Jules Brunet to head the investigation, I will make the appointment formally.

Considering the fact that we are now possessed of a crisis regarding the Army and Navy Ministers, I wish to prevent the possibility of further abuses of personal networks in the military. The NINJA organization, seeking to extend throughout the Navy through subterfuge, has been folded into the Internal Security service successfully. But the previous army minister, Otori Keisuke, had undertaken a number of actions detrimental to the purpose of the army as the arm of the constitutional government, and not merely the provenance of a Daimyo lord. Allow me to quote from the recent news:

quote:

Organizing a force of 5,000 men, President Enomoto ordered the samurai from Sado to Satsuma, to assist Saigo’s rebellion and evacuate them in the event of failure. Leading this force was Matsumae Takahiro, who, it would later be revealed, had a secondary goal. Taking initiative of his own, Army Magistrate Otori Keisuke openly defied his President’s orders and withdrew 4,000 of the men from the expeditionary force, and only allowed the dispatch of 1,000 men, certainly setting up a crisis of command between the commander in chief and his subordinate army magistrate. Some have questioned his loyalty, and call on the President to utilize his prerogative and remove him from his position.

This betrayal needs no explanation beyond itself. The President issued an order. The Chief of the Army refused to follow it. This is a government of Constitutional rights and responsibilities, we must ensure that regardless of the whims of one man, the Army and Navy both know that they have a duty to pledge themselves to the Constitution, not to individuals.

quote:

The success in Sado is greatly trumpeted by the army magistrate, in collaboration through Education Magistrate Itakura Katsukiyo, who has increasingly taken a role in providing unifying rhetoric to officials. Bolstered by the support, many of the citizenry in Ezochi proper have arisen to the task of defending their island, holding rallies day and night. Many have appeared in the Ōtori domains at an impromptu command school, training to fight against the impending invasion. The Denshūtai, an Independence War-era brigade, is revived as volunteers arrive, intent on repelling the “corrupt Meiji sell-outs.” The European role in the protection of Ezo is not mentioned by the republic’s magistrates… for now.

This was pure revisionism, and an attempt by Otori to use his own domains to set up a 'Command School' under his direction, as well as using the Minister of Education for his own propaganda purposes.

quote:

More chillingly, however, is the degree to which prominent samurai (now Daimyo) of the Republic have sought to utilize their symbolic position to further their own interests. Already, a number of Daimyo have begun to seek samurai to swear loyalty to their cause, raising fears of the same factionalization that characterized the Sengoku Jidai before the Edo period [...] Utilizing his position as head of the army, Otori Keisuke has also begun seeking pledges to his service, and has sought to utilize his disbursement of land in Sado (over which he is daimyo) to encourage samurai to pledge to him at Enomoto (and others’) expense. Tokugawa himself began training peasants and samurai to the same effect, as his own personal retinue and militia.

This kind of factionalism which was taking place within the Army itself, it can NOT be allowed to continue! We can not use the Army as a poaching ground to recruit samurai to our service to build power bases! How does this benefit the nation? What is this besides a mad grasp for power?

Thus I am appointing Kasuga Saemon, a respected and well-known man, to the position of General in the army, and Commandant of the Tokugawa Ieyasu Military Academy. His job will be twofold. First, to provide the relevant instruction to young samurai in the T.I.M.A. who would join the army in both military arts and the strictures of republican government and constitutionalism. Second, within the army, he will be tasked with assisting the newly appointed but not-yet-confirmed Minister of the Army, Matsudaira Sadaaki, in expunging any coups, factions or juntas developing or existing within the army. Newly appointed Minister of the Navy Katsu Kaishu will be, upon his successful confirmation, similarly charged with purging the navy of any suspected coup rings or disloyal officers.

Let me be clear as I say this, this is NOT political persecution. No one will be investigated for their political party or beliefs, or for saying things against the President or any other member of government, but rather regarding oaths of service they may have taken which would conflict with their duties as members of a national military. I hope that all can see with a Matsudaira and Ezo's most prominent Christian working together, that this is not a matter of factionalism, but a matter of good government and sober judgment during a time when our underdeveloped institutions of government

cxcxxxxx
Sep 7, 2013

It is not possible to eat me without insisting that I sing praises of my devourer?


Tokugawa
I do not care for this change to Bill 3-2, as the Vice president investigating the president is a conflict of interest in the highest degree. Who has more to gain from the loss of the president than the vice president?

I propose we stick to the original bill in which the merchant serves, as we are sworn enemies and no conflicts of mutual benefit will arise from that. Furthermore may we not be reconciled by the search for a ruthless and dishonorable killer?

Litos
Feb 2, 2013


Fall Sick and Die posted:



I'd like to thank Mr. Capron for his wise suggestions. I assure him that, after this squabble is settled, we shall continue on as before, development and self-strengthening are the key to Ezo's future.

I also support our Interior Minister's bill for the professionalization of the police force, which I think could not come at a better time.

I do not wish to wade too deeply into the matter of the investigations of the Shogun's wedding tragedy, not because I am disinterested but because I do not wish to have anyone think I am attempting to influence the results. My own opinion is that whoever is recommended to me and passes the muster of the Supreme Court, the Shogun and Mr. Thomas Blakiston will be suitable, and I will be more than happy to appoint them as a special prosecutor. If all are agreed upon Jules Brunet to head the investigation, I will make the appointment formally.

Considering the fact that we are now possessed of a crisis regarding the Army and Navy Ministers, I wish to prevent the possibility of further abuses of personal networks in the military. The NINJA organization, seeking to extend throughout the Navy through subterfuge, has been folded into the Internal Security service successfully. But the previous army minister, Otori Keisuke, had undertaken a number of actions detrimental to the purpose of the army as the arm of the constitutional government, and not merely the provenance of a Daimyo lord. Allow me to quote from the recent news:


This betrayal needs no explanation beyond itself. The President issued an order. The Chief of the Army refused to follow it. This is a government of Constitutional rights and responsibilities, we must ensure that regardless of the whims of one man, the Army and Navy both know that they have a duty to pledge themselves to the Constitution, not to individuals.


This was pure revisionism, and an attempt by Otori to use his own domains to set up a 'Command School' under his direction, as well as using the Minister of Education for his own propaganda purposes.


This kind of factionalism which was taking place within the Army itself, it can NOT be allowed to continue! We can not use the Army as a poaching ground to recruit samurai to our service to build power bases! How does this benefit the nation? What is this besides a mad grasp for power?

Thus I am appointing Kasuga Saemon, a respected and well-known man, to the position of General in the army, and Commandant of the Tokugawa Ieyasu Military Academy. His job will be twofold. First, to provide the relevant instruction to young samurai in the T.I.M.A. who would join the army in both military arts and the strictures of republican government and constitutionalism. Second, within the army, he will be tasked with assisting the newly appointed but not-yet-confirmed Minister of the Army, Matsudaira Sadaaki, in expunging any coups, factions or juntas developing or existing within the army. Newly appointed Minister of the Navy Katsu Kaishu will be, upon his successful confirmation, similarly charged with purging the navy of any suspected coup rings or disloyal officers.

Let me be clear as I say this, this is NOT political persecution. No one will be investigated for their political party or beliefs, or for saying things against the President or any other member of government, but rather regarding oaths of service they may have taken which would conflict with their duties as members of a national military. I hope that all can see with a Matsudaira and Ezo's most prominent Christian working together, that this is not a matter of factionalism, but a matter of good government and sober judgment during a time when our underdeveloped institutions of government


Otori Keisuke, Army Magistrate, Chairman of the Republican Party

This is ridiculous. 5,000 men dying because of an oversight of the president is not pledging service to the Constitution but the abuse of the Constitution. Military academies are not political propaganda else your recent action is political propaganda. Educating soldiers in your own ideals is worse than anything even the greatest exaggeration of what I have done. The army is supposed to recruit and recruitment is not a political move. We have seen the hypocrisy of this illegitimate president in his inability to maintain coherence within the space of 4 paragraphs.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



I'm sure I speak for all of congress when I say that the President and the Army minister's petty bickering within these hallowed halls is an insult to the principles of democracy. The two of you are set to duel to the death, I say that the question of who is acting with dishonour will be decided then, as the righteous one shall possess the clarity of spirit needed to strike down the deceitful one.

Until that day, please keep your argument to yourselves so that we in congress can focus on governance.

BrainParasite
Jan 24, 2003




Tsukinoeaino Ainu Chieftain, Daimyo

I hate to bother the legislature at this time of loss and uncertainty, but my needs are pressing. The Matsumae retain a claim to exclusive trading rights with the Ainu from pre-Republic times. I do not believe this is right or practical.

I would like someone to take up this bill.

quote:

Bill 3-6: Pratical Ainu Commerce Bill
The Ainu will be permitted to trade under the normal laws and regulations of the Republic of Ezo without additional restrictions.

Ramba Ral
Feb 18, 2009

"The basis of the Juche Idea is that man is the master of all things and the decisive factor in everything."
- Kim Il-Sung


Ataman Hijikata Toshizō, The Demon of the Shinsengumi



I will be glad to bring this bill to congress due to the heroes that stopped the Meiji infiltrators.

I hereby like to bring to congress Bill 3-6.

quote:

Bill 3-6: Pratical Ainu Commerce Bill
The Ainu will be permitted to trade under the normal laws and regulations of the Republic of Ezo without additional restrictions.

I do hope that everyone will readily agree to this bill as the Ainu have shown their loyalty to our republic.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd



Jules Brunet, Special Advisor to the President, Entrepreneur, Private Military Contractor, Aspiring Commodore

As my hastily composed letter indicates, I undertake the responsibility of hunting down the criminal with great enthusiasm. While our nations may not be historical companions, I count Monsieur Blakiston as one of my finest friends in Ezo, and I shall endeavor to bring him what solace I can. I call upon all good and righteous citizens of Ezo to come forward to the Commission with whatever information they may have, that the wheels of justice may turn swiftly!

In other news, I have recently finished the process of incorporating the growing organization under my command as an official enterprise - Les Militaires Mondiaux. In this time of chaos, we stand ready to offer our services in the fields of Protection, Training, and Consulting. Seeking the edge over your foe? Want your family to sleep soundly at night? You can rely on us!*

(*We will not take jobs against the ruling government or institutions of the Republic of Ezo. Sorry!)

sniper4625 fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2014 around 22:27

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012



Takenaka Shigekata
Chief Justice of the Ezo Supreme Court

Otori, Ministry of the Army, et al v. Enomoto, 1 R.E.R. 96 (1877)

1 R.E.R. 96

Otori, Ministry of the Army

v.

Enomoto


Mr. Chief Justice Takenaka Shigekata delivered the opinion of the Court.

This question in this case is whether the Constitution grants the President exclusive power to remove executive officers appointed by and with the advice and consent of Congress.

Otori, the plantiff, was appointed by the President on November 1, 1873 to serve as Minister of the Army. In April 10, 1877, Otori’s resignation was demanded for perceived misconduct in Satsuma. He refused the demand. On April 15, 1873, he was removed from office via executive order. The Congress did not consent to the President’s removal of Otori during his term and Otori continued to fulfill the duties of the office against the wishes of the Executive. Otori sent petitions to the President, the Congress, and Judiciary, protesting against his removal as a violation of the Constitution’s Advise and Consent Clause. He argued that the President cannot replace a magistrate without the approval of a majority in Congress. Using its original jurisdiction over cases affecting public Ministers and Consuls, the Supreme Court accepted the case.

The Constitution is silent on the issue of dismissal. It is only through implication that the plaintiff’s argument can be sustained. The relevant parts of the Constitution are as follows:

Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 posted:

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the Republic of Ezo...

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 2 posted:

[The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Congress, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Representatives present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of Congress, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the Republic of Ezo, whose Appointments are herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferor Officers as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Article II, Section III posted:

: He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the State of the Republic, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of Ezo.

There is no clear answer within the Constitution to address this question. Although the power of dismissal was discussed during the war against Meiji, there were many arguments and no one rule was agreed upon. It became the topic of significant tension and resentment among officials. It seems that there is no express provision respecting removals in the Constitution, except in Section 4 of Article 3, for this reason.

During the war, a popular argument by the Republican Faction insisted that the President was granted the power of appointment and removal of executive officers, by virtue of leading that branch. The group indicated an intention to create a strong executive, and feared that restricting the power of removal would undermine the executive’s authority and independence. It would become a manifestation of the Congress’ will, such is the case in many parliamentary states across the globe.

Under Section 2 of Article II, however, the power of appointment is checked by the Congress. The body can reject the officers that he nominates. This provision was seen by the Republican Faction as admittance of the potential tyranny in the Presidency. The President could exercise his power in opposition to the people, while the Congress, as the only governmental manifestation of the people’s will, would be helpless. Another argument put forward by the faction was that the power of removal would not be enough to prevent malconduct.

The Court notes with great distaste that the current Legislature has done nothing to address any of these arguments. There have been no provisions or acts put forth by Congress regarding the matter of removal, as would generally be expected of such an important topic. Constitutional law supersedes all else. But when there is no Constitutional provision, the Court must fall back upon acts of the National Legislature and the common law of the land. In this case, Congress has provided no act for the Court to use as a basis.

Every act of government is presumed to be constitutional. The courts ought not to declare one to be unconstitutional, unless it is clearly so. If there is doubt, the expressed will of the Executive and Legislature should be sustained.

It is reasonable to suppose that had the Constitution been intended to give Congress the power to regulate removals in the manner suggested by Otori, it would have been specifically enumerated in Article I, as a power of the Congress, or Article II, as a restriction upon the executive. Yet, there is none.

The power to prevent the removal of an officer who served under the President is different from the power of consent. During the appointment process, it should be assumed that the Congress is as aware of the qualifications of the nominee as the President. However, in the course of serving his office, defects in ability or intelligence or loyalty in administration, may surface. At this point, the President or his trusted subordinates, must be better informed than the Senate. The power to remove him is be regarded as sound for pragmatic reasons, to ensure administrative control. The power of removal is incidental to the power of appointment.

The Court also notes that giving Congress unlimited discretion over the removal of officers fundamentally undermines the independence of the executive branch. The department would lose all legitimacy and power against the intrusive powers of Legislature. Without a confidence in the Executive, its operations would be subject to perpetual chaos, and the administration of the government become impracticable.

Legislature already exerts some influence over the executive through the appointment process and through other means. It is through Congress that posts are created. The Legislature creates the office, defines its powers, limits its duration, and determines just compensation. The President must already bow to Congress if he wants a new advisor. They should have nothing to do with removing the samurai to fill the office.

These arguments are supported by Ezo’s history and tradition. During the feudal period, the Shogun was never required to meet with his subjects to remove an advisor. These individuals operated at the pleasure of the Shogun, not at the general public’s happiness. These advisors were manifestations of the Shogun’s will. Such is the same in Ezo, where the role of the Magistrate is to fulfill those duties which the President cannot personally accomplish. The responsibilities of the Executive are legion, so it cannot be expected for the President to accomplish each one himself. He must rely on others to act with his will.

By allowing Congress to freely remove ministers increases the risk of cohabitation, where the advisor exists only to limit the Executive’s power. Such a circumstance would be a clear abuse of power by the Legislature and an unconstitutional check upon the President’s authority. Such potential for abuse cannot be allowed to stand.

As an incidental addendum, the Court notes that the President has appointed a new person to fill Otori’s post. While the Court does not find the removal of Otori to be a violation of the Constitution, the President’s actions here are a very clear violation of Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 2. Matsudaira Sadaaki cannot fulfill any duties of his office. The Executive cannot appoint individuals without the clear consent of Congress.

The matter is decided.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2014 around 23:42

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012



Takenaka Shigekata
Chief Justice of the Ezo Supreme Court

In summary,

NAME OF THE CASE: Otori, Ministry of the Army, et al v. Enomoto, 1 R.E.R. 96 (1877)

FACTS OF THE CASE: Otori Keisuke served as Army Magistrate in President Enomoto’s Cabinet. As part of Otori’s responsibilities, he was asked to assist in organizing an expeditionary force to Satsuma. There a rebellion against Meiji forces had occurred and Ezo hoped to assist the conflict to undermine the government’s authority. President Enomoto requested the Ministry of the Army provide 5,000 samurai for deployment. Although forces were deployed, Otori restricted the number of samurai to 1,000.

Minister Otori was blamed after the expeditionary force failed. The President fired Otori from his position and appointed Matsudaira Sadaaki to take his place. Otori and the Ministry of the Army filed suit against the President claiming that he violated the Advise and Consent Clause. The President could not remove officials without Congressional approval.

The Supreme Court of Ezo agreed to hear the case under its original jurisdiction.

LEGAL QUESTIONS AND HOLDING:

Majority Opinion – Chief Justice Takenaka:
Joined by Justices Sato, Suzuki, Miyazaki, Narita, Takahashi
  • Does Article II’s Advise and Consent Clause imply that Congressional approval is needed to dismiss executive appointees? (No.)
  • Is there any national legislation which ties Congressional approval to the dismissing of executive appointees? (No.)
  • Historically, have Japanese leaders been able to dismiss appointees on a unilateral basis? (Yes.)
  • Would tying the President’s power to dismiss officials interfere with the executive’s independence and the rule of law? (Yes.)
  • Was President Enomoto’s appointment of Matsudaira Sadaaki a violation of the Constitution? (Yes.)

IMPLICATIONS: Otori is removed from office as per Presidential order. Matsudaira Sadaaki is blocked from assuming the responsibilities of the Minister of the Army until he confirmed by the Senate. Similar appointments are also blocked until they receive Senate confirmation.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2014 around 23:37

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012



Takenaka Shigekata
Chief Justice of the Ezo Supreme Court

Litos posted:


Otori Keisuke, Army Magistrate, Chairman of the Republican Party

I thank the Supreme Court Justice for his offer but there is another case to attend to as well, if he is willing to hear it. I file Otori v. Tokugawa, declaring that the Shogun is found nowhere in the Constitution and he has no power over daimyo. The Shogun is given the power to elevate by past law, but past law can be overturned, and it does not give him the power to take away estates. The Shogunate Court is compromised of the Shogun and the Daimyo, not the Shogun alone, so even if it were a constitutional body, the 14 year old Shogun has no rights to make decisions in it. This is by no means an affront to the Shogun or his honorable regent who I understand is judiciously shielding and guiding him in this time of adolescence and crisis, as we can follow by an official addition of the Shogun to the constitution, but through legitimate legislative amendment.

The Court will hear Otori v. Tokugawa and asks for Shogun Tokugawa to put forth oral arguments in his defense.

Jenkem Delivery
Feb 8, 2005

Death created time to grow the things that it would kill

Matsudaira Tarou - Vice President




While I respect the Supreme Court's decision this leaves the Army without a clear commander. In my capacity as President of Congress I will convene an emergency session of Congress to approve Matsudaira Sadaaki.

Also, I will assist Jules Brunet in his investigation. I will use my powers as Vice President in any way I can to bring the killer(s) to justice.


OOC: Does command automatically go to the NPC 2nd in Command of the Army by default for the interim until the appointment goes through?

Litos
Feb 2, 2013



Otori Keisuke, Army Magistrate, Chairman of the Republican Party

Very simple. The Shogun claims he can decide on Samurai and Daimyo status. On both counts the law to which he refers actually says it's the Shogunate Court composed of all Daimyo meeting as a regular Senate would that does so. ((Mechanically works like votes))

Harms: Shogun determines who votes and who can be in Congress. I am a member of Congress. I would not be able to vote despite being elected. That's illogical, meaning he could argue people he doesn't like shouldn't be in Congress either, meaning implied Constitutional authority is in the hands of the Shogun, except the Shogun is not in the Constitution. This does not mean we would be unhappy to add him, simply that he is not. The Constitution determines voting rights and government function so any extra-legal determination of voting rights is not allowed. Various amendments protect property rights and non-samurai are not allowed the same privileges including the right to hold a sword.

The traditional argument also functions. Emperor Enjuu is already recognized as our ceremonial head of state and has been since 1867, not the Shogun. The Head of State bestows honors. The Shogun is simply the caretaker for the Head of State, but the Tokugawa household maintains it is a caretaker for a foreign head of state, the Yamato household in Honshu, not our recognized Head of State. If the Tokugawa Shogunate changes which master it recognizes as its employer and maintains legal authority, then I and other daimyo and samurai still protected because any change would be ex-post facto.

Additionally, the vote for the Samurai Regulation Code from which the Shogun derives his power happened after all actions during the last season by the Army Magistrate. Section D cites areas of violation that would warrant rights being taken away. Because the law was signed after these actions happened, punishment would be ex post facto and the Constitution protects us from ex post facto punishment.

How do the estates of Daimyo exist? This is another angle that strengthens government. Their precedent are States with their own ways of regulation and internal laws. Currently they do not experience democratic elections, but the constitution does not bind regions and territories to do so. Representation in the Shogunate Court of each daimyo is sufficient to claim parallel to the "Senator" situation in the United States. There is no precedent for governors of states to be removed by the national government, that is a purely internal matter. States were established through national consensus in an implied national law and ground-up change on the level of popular sovereignty or accession to a Union. These changes are irreversible by law until a Constitutional Amendment like the United States 14th Amendment places Supremacy of higher authorities over bottom-up change. The Shogun was one of the individuals who made the proposal, not the one who signed it into law.

Yet more devastating, the law doesn't let daimyo be removed.. Daimyo like myself can promote samurai in our own domains, but the Shogunate court can only remove samurai not Daimyo, meaning that any Daimyo is immune to being called not a samurai because he can always determine his own status. This is also in line with tradition. Can a non-samurai be a Daimyo? It can be argued not, but a Daimyo has closer access to his person and his clan so his verdict of re-appointment will always arrive before a verdict of demotion, and even if he is deposed the person appointed daimyo is given power by the law to determine samurai status through the clan, which still rules the Estate. Thus the clan, even if it has no people in it, is ruled by the daimyo appointee who can rename himself a samurai and become a daimyo again.

Summary:

The Shogun is not head of state.
The Shogun is a caretaker for a foreign head of state not our own.
The Shogun is not in the constitution.
The Shogunate Court has authority not the Shogun. It has not met.
Ex-Post facto protection prevents seizure for actions after the fact.
Daimyo estates decide samurai status and regulatory matters as internal facts independent of the national government until the constitution is amended.
The Shogun would have implied powers to decide voting rights, property rights and Congressional seats, directly contradicting the Constitution. Thus the Samurai Regulation Code is unconstitutional on those grounds.

Any of these points independently nullify the Shogun's acts. The Samurai Regulation Code altogether could be nullified because Constitutional law takes precedent, but that may not be necessary since even under the law our interpretation is correct.

Thank you your honor.

Litos fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2014 around 00:26

Litos
Feb 2, 2013


Colonel Wood posted:

Matsudaira Tarou - Vice President




While I respect the Supreme Court's decision this leaves the Army without a clear commander. In my capacity as President of Congress I will convene an emergency session of Congress to approve Matsudaira Sadaaki.

Also, I will assist Jules Brunet in his investigation. I will use my powers as Vice President in any way I can to bring the killer(s) to justice.


OOC: Does command automatically go to the NPC 2nd in Command of the Army by default for the interim until the appointment goes through?

((It goes to highest ranking general temporarily iirc based on US precedent. I've confirmed voting always happens during the turn, but probably in the beginning.))

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd


Litos posted:


Otori Keisuke, Army Magistrate, Chairman of the Republican Party


Jules Brunet, Noticer of Things

Aren't you not that first thing anymore?

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

I want peace on earth and goodwill toward men.



Action Points for Turn 3 below. Best Post of Turn 2 goes to ForeverBWFC for his work on negotiating the St. Petersburg Treaty, which was a long and drawn-out conference. The award this turn is an expansion that in-character actions, not just posting in the thread, are grounds for potential reward. The GMs are very pleased at the amount of activity for the game; potential candidates for Turn 3 best post are already being considered!

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



As per the constitution I have already drawn up the relevant bills a while back, but just to be clearly within the decision made by the supreme court

Special Bill 1 posted:

-The position of Army Minister shall be taken by Matsudaira Sadaaki
Sakoku-ha votes YES

Special Bill 2 posted:

- The position of Naval Minister shall be taken by Katsi Katsu[/b]
Sakoku-ha votes NO

To fix the hole in our constitution that leaves the cabinet open to immediate unilateral dismissal by the president, I propose:

On Dismissing Members of the Cabinet posted:

Dismissing members of the cabinet
-Future dismissals from the cabinet will require a vote to be made by the cabinet.
-In the event of a tie, the president's decision is enforced.
-Therefore, blocking the removal of a member of the cabinet requires a clear majority NO vote by the remaining members.

Replacing members of the cabinet
-As per the constitution, if the decision to remove a member of the cabinet is approved by the remaining members, the president shall suggest an initial candidate for that post, which will go to congressional vote. Majority wins.
-If this appointment is blocked, members of congress may announce their candidacy for the vacant position. Prospective candidates require two seconds by other members of congress.
-The presidents's candidate will also be eligible for this vote.
-Once the period to announce candidacy ends, members of congress will vote for which candidate they feel should take the vacant position. The candidate with the most votes will take the position.

I would be happy to hear any amendments/suggestions anyone has for this bill, but as it stands Sakoku-ha votes YES

Namtab fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2014 around 22:18

Fall Sick and Die
Nov 22, 2003




For the upcoming legislative session I'd just like to offer a few points. First I'm thankful for the support for who I hope will be our new Army Minister. I would also like to see greater support for our new Naval Minister, a former admiral, there is currently no one better qualified to lead the Navy apart from myself. If there is no candidate approved, then that is exactly what will happen, and I will have to exercise direct control over the navy, which will mean the navy will not be functioning at full efficiency, a dangerous state of affairs considering that the navy is our iron wall protecting us from conquest by the Meiji.

Second, I will unfortunately be forced to veto the Samurai Registration Act. I will return it to Congress, however with the Samurai Regulation Code of 1877 already passed, the Samurai Registration Act is superfluous, as well as far too broad in its language to withstand common sense. The language in the bill allows for foreigners to gain samurai status if they marry into noble families, a loophole I'm certain the Sakoku faction wouldn't support.

Third, just to remind Otori Keisuke, if he continues to proclaim himself either Minister of the Army or Chairman of the Republican Party, he would do well to show his leadership to the noble officers of the Army as well as his friends in the Republican Party by meeting me as soon as possible so that I can cleave his head from his shoulders.

*lips move quickly, not matching the words that come out*
Otori, your betrayal can never be forgiven. You WILL pay, HA - HA - HA

Jenkem Delivery
Feb 8, 2005

Death created time to grow the things that it would kill

Namtab posted:

To fix the hole in our constitution that leaves the cabinet open to immediate unilateral dismissal by the president, I propose:

Dismissing members of the cabinet
-Future dismissals from the cabinet will require a vote to be made by the cabinet.
-In the event of a tie, the president's decision is enforced.
-Therefore, blocking the removal of a member of the cabinet requires a clear majority NO vote by the remaining members.

Replacing members of the cabinet
-As per the constitution, if the decision to remove a member of the cabinet is approved by the remaining members, the president shall suggest an initial candidate for that post, which will go to congressional vote. Majority wins.
-If this appointment is blocked, members of congress may announce their candidacy for the vacant position. Prospective candidates require two seconds by other members of congress.
-The presidents's candidate will also be eligible for this vote.
-Once the period to announce candidacy ends, members of congress will vote for which candidate they feel should take the vacant position. The candidate with the most votes will take the position.

I would be happy to hear any amendments/suggestions anyone has for this bill, but as it stands Sakoku-ha votes YES

Matsudaira Tarou - Vice President



Why should the President have to get a vote of his cabinet to dismiss members? This change is ridiculous, the Cabinet serves at the pleasure of the President and thus he should have the freedom to dismiss them as needed. The check on this power comes from Congress having the ability to confirm the appointment of any Cabinet member.

Your bill adds unnecessary layers of bureaucracy to a process that already takes a long time to get new appointees in. If you want to make a meaningful constitutional amendment, why don't you create a provision that allows the President to make an acting appointment until Congress can convene to confirm an appointment. Having Congress squabble for Cabinet appointments that should only be made by the President is ludicrous. Not to mention having the ability to vie for a Cabinet position if an appointment is blocked completely disincentivizes Congress to confirm any appointment.

Jenkem Delivery fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2014 around 21:21

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



It figures that the vice president would want to leave unilateral power in the hands of his boss, so that one day he can have those powers when he becomes president.

Looks like the president and his lackeys will do naught but block meaningful reform. I ask the rest of congress, is this a democracy or a dictatorship?

E: Your mum sends her best

Namtab fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2014 around 21:30

Jenkem Delivery
Feb 8, 2005

Death created time to grow the things that it would kill

Namtab posted:

It figures that the vice president would want to leave unilateral power in the hands of his boss, so that one day he can have those powers when he becomes president.

Looks like the president and his lackeys will do naught but block meaningful reform. I ask the rest of congress, is this a democracy or a dictatorship?

E: Your mum sends her best

Matsudaira Tarou - Vice President



What are you talking about me becoming President? We just had an election! You dishonor yourself and your party with such baseless accusations.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



You talk of dishonouring myself when you are so quick to block legitimate reform? What other reasoning could you have other than you coveting the presidential position for yourself.

I recommend that you apologise for your insults towards the sakoku-ha party, or be prepared to back them with your blade following my release from hospital.

Jenkem Delivery
Feb 8, 2005

Death created time to grow the things that it would kill

Namtab posted:

You talk of dishonouring myself when you are so quick to block legitimate reform? What other reasoning could you have other than you coveting the presidential position for yourself.

I recommend that you apologise for your insults towards the sakoku-ha party, or be prepared to back them with your blade following my release from hospital.

Matsudaira Tarou - Vice President



Your "reform" is laughably bad. Your provision allowing for Congressmen to vie for Cabinet positions once an appointment has been blocked will pretty much prevent any future Presidential appointments from being confirmed. I will not back down from my words.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



Karen's power intensifies



Then you leave me no choice but to formally challenge you to a duel. Upon my release from hospital we shall settle this with steel, as words do not seem to reach you.

In the meantime I shall resubmit my bill without what appears to be too enlightened a reform, as I gather that our country is not ready.

On Dismissing Members of the Cabinet posted:

Dismissing members of the cabinet
-Future dismissals from the cabinet will require a vote to be made by the cabinet.
-In the event of a tie, the president's decision is enforced.
-Therefore, blocking the removal of a member of the cabinet requires a clear majority NO vote by the remaining members.

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Fall Sick and Die
Nov 22, 2003




Even if that legislation (Namtab's) were to pass, in light of the recent Supreme Court decision it would be grossly unconstitutional. Therefore I'm only able to say, Congress should spend its time on more productive matters, if such a bill were passed by Congress it would be vetoed by my office in any case. Regarding the duel, I highly advise my Vice President not to accept. There is no honor in the death of a crippled old man whose leg has been cut away entirely. Matsudaira, I advise you to live out the rest of your years remembering the glory of battle you achieved for this Republic.

Fall Sick and Die fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2014 around 22:25

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