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Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





I sleep until 9, take a 2 hour lunch and I'm home by 4:30, that's about as close to my platonic ideal (which is doing nothing) as I can manage right now.

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

My fingers are set to vibrate


Fun Shoe

Jaded Burnout posted:

I sleep until 9, take a 2 hour lunch and I'm home by 4:30, that's about as close to my platonic ideal (which is doing nothing) as I can manage right now.

Occasionally I daydream about retiring early, but every time I find myself without obligations I end up going stir-crazy.

...I'd better figure this out sometime in the next ~30 years.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life


Pollyanna posted:

For some bizarre reason I'm being asked whether I am interested in a front-end team lead position. I don't know how to break it to them that they're really barking up the wrong tree.

My dude, maybe by some bizarre twist of fate, everyone else posting here telling you to not use recruiting agencies, was right?? It's unlikely I know, but you'll have to take a leap of faith and trust that they aren't gatekeepers to the promised land

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Mr. Crow posted:

My dude, maybe by some bizarre twist of fate, everyone else posting here telling you to not use recruiting agencies, was right?? It's unlikely I know, but you'll have to take a leap of faith and trust that they aren't gatekeepers to the promised land

This was a hiring manager from said company actually

B-Nasty
May 25, 2005



JawnV6 posted:

No, no, All Development That Matters looks exactly like my container-slinging remote work, any delta from this platonic ideal can best be explained as a failure of management, possibly even personal failure of the developers involved to be looking out for their own happiness!

Sorry you have to be physically present next to some hardware to do your job, but the vast majority of s/w development is just slapping some codes together that run on easily reproducible hardware/software setups (e.g. a web server or desktop.) For those developers, working from home is mostly seen as a huge positive benefit.

If some developers that could otherwise work from home want to go into the office, that's fine, but they can't make the claim that working remotely doesn't work.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Working remotely works if it is done well. Doing it well is not simple and I would argue that it is uncommon.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Pollyanna posted:

Working remotely works if it is done well. Doing it well is not simple and I would argue that it is uncommon.

Regale us of your tale(s) of how you know these things.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

JawnV6 posted:

No, no, All Development That Matters looks exactly like my container-slinging remote work, any delta from this platonic ideal can best be explained as a failure of management, possibly even personal failure of the developers involved to be looking out for their own happiness!

There's exactly one of these test cards in existence, it cost us 6 figures of NRE.... yo can we get a cheap bike courier to carry this thing around??

There are more container-slinging jobs (or jobs that could rise up to container-slinging) than there are expensive-proprietary-hardware jobs. The original guy was claiming it's only possible to do in a few cases which is not true.

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

Skandranon posted:

Regale us of your tale(s) of how you know these things.

She's not wrong, though. Supporting remote work has to be built into the fabric of an org for it to work at any decent scale and velocity.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008



Taco Defender

Blinkz0rz posted:

She's not wrong, though. Supporting remote work has to be built into the fabric of an org for it to work at any decent scale and velocity.

Yeah, but it's not hard to do as an org, or rare anymore. Mostly it just requires a commitment to the idea, not telepresence robots or whatever.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

Yeah, but it's not hard to do as an org, or rare anymore. Mostly it just requires a commitment to the idea, not telepresence robots or whatever.

Whether or not it is "hard" is arguable, but given how few places actually pull it off well the difficulty is irrelevant.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


Another absolutely massive blunder on Hrunting's team courtesy of Mr. Manager (not related to me, thankfully) but I've actually begun to lose track of all the off-the-books poo poo that happens because there's just so much. Don't worry - I'll start a doxument to share with you all from here on out. My next meeting with HR is tomorrow so stay tuned for updates. Communication with the Senior on my team has opened my eyes to just how many people know this guy is total trash and how everyone is afraid to say anything because of how much power he has -- we know how he will literally just blame us for not being "technical enough" when the project fails again.

metztli
Mar 19, 2006
Which lead to the obvious photoshop, making me suspect that their ad agencies or creative types must be aware of what goes on at SA

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

Yeah, but it's not hard to do as an org, or rare anymore. Mostly it just requires a commitment to the idea, not telepresence robots or whatever.

Itís not ďhardĒ, but it does require a bit more effort than non-remote work.

I managed multiple offshore (outsourced) teams and a few remote teams at various branches at my last job (huge company with global presence and a fuckton of resources) and it was absolutely more effort than managing local, in house teams. It greatly benefits from overcommunication by all parties, much more well defined work, and good time management skills on everyoneís part. Those things SHOULDNíT be uncommon, but, well, there you have it.

At my new job (tiny start up, everyone in the same room, virtually no resources) itís like barely any effort in comparison.

Saying it canít be done well or itís just super difficult to do well is maybe an overstatement, but it definitely adds a non-trivial amount of challenge.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





Outsourced teams are even harder because you have us vs them issues.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Jaded Burnout posted:

Outsourced teams are even harder because you have us vs them issues.

Outsourced teams are terrible because the vendor keeps rotating lovely engineers in.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008



Taco Defender

I don't disagree that it involves a bit of effort to make remote work. It's also not for everyone. I think it's way overblown how rare 'good remote' is though. I've been remote for like.... 7 years now across 3 jobs (from 8 to 400 employees). Interviewed at probably 20-30 other places that had seemed to have their remote poo poo together. I wouldn't even consider a non-remote job in the future. (Not to mention I make probably literally 200% what I could locally, lol).

Outsourcing is a horse of a different color.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

friendbot2000 posted:

I kind of fell into the career path of being a Test Automation Engineer and I am being groomed to become a lead of a new Automation Team in the near future. I still can't shake the feeling that my niche could be dangerous to my long term career health if Test Automation goes away. Do any of the more experienced old timers have any advice on where I should start branching off too as a contingency? I do a lot of work with frameworks (I built the one we use for automation) so that was my first guess, but I am looking for some outside input.

I did an effortpost here:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...3#post480031896
In fact, this whole page is about testing:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...=132&perpage=40

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Was asked to give a quick dive into something technical I was into and somehow ended up talking about React and Redux and functional code in general, how that influences the design of an application and a program, and the effects it has on understanding the behavior of the product, readability of the code, an engineer's mental model of the application, and how easy it is to onboard new developers.

I feel like I completely BSed that entire thing, but somehow the person I spoke to was satisfied.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Pollyanna posted:

I feel like I completely BSed that entire thing, but somehow the person I spoke to was satisfied.

Congratulations you are now a senior engineer

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Pollyanna posted:

Was asked to give a quick dive into something technical I was into and somehow ended up talking about React and Redux and functional code in general, how that influences the design of an application and a program, and the effects it has on understanding the behavior of the product, readability of the code, an engineer's mental model of the application, and how easy it is to onboard new developers.

I feel like I completely BSed that entire thing, but somehow the person I spoke to was satisfied.

Jose Valasquez posted:

Congratulations you are now a senior engineer

Enjoy the 30-50% pay increase and twice the meetings.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Let me be clear, nothing I said made any loving sense and was definitely poorly organized and had zero proof to back it up. But, at least I got into it!

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Grimey Drawer

Pollyanna posted:

Let me be clear, nothing I said made any loving sense and was definitely poorly organized and had zero proof to back it up. But, at least I got into it!

The ability to string together a few related thoughts can be valuable even when the thoughts are bullshit.

rt4
Feb 19, 2008


Grimey Drawer

Pollyanna posted:

Let me be clear, nothing I said made any loving sense and was definitely poorly organized and had zero proof to back it up. But, at least I got into it!

oh wow didn't know Robert C. Martin posted here

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



Pillbug

Pollyanna posted:

Was asked to give a quick dive into something technical I was into and somehow ended up talking about React and Redux and functional code in general, how that influences the design of an application and a program, and the effects it has on understanding the behavior of the product, readability of the code, an engineer's mental model of the application, and how easy it is to onboard new developers.

I feel like I completely BSed that entire thing, but somehow the person I spoke to was satisfied.

That's how I got my third coding job except F# vs C# instead of JS frameworks. I had also had three beers at lunch a couple hours before because the interview hadn't been scheduled yet.

the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture







College Slice

remote teams are generally more functional than all-local teams in my experience. this is probably because the average experience level is higher for remote workers (companies are more likely to trust competent devs with a track record to work remote than new hires) but i also think it's because practices you have to adopt for remote teams are just better for development overall. documenting, async discussion and automation are all way more critical for remote teams than they are when you can just walk over to a coworkers desk

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Munkeymon posted:

That's how I got my third coding job except F# vs C# instead of JS frameworks. I had also had three beers at lunch a couple hours before because the interview hadn't been scheduled yet.

Been there. Interviews and stuff coming up really really quickly and last-minute is the bane of my existence, I need time to mentally prepare

Looks like one of the opportunities I was considering (some local government transportation thing idk) is a contract role, and as a result they don't want to refer me to them without locking in my hourly rate. I'm tempted to tell them that I'm not interested in less than $125/hr, especially since it's a contract role and I'd have to buy my own insurance and poo poo. Don't contract roles practically require you to quote a high price like that to be worth it?

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

JawnV6 posted:

God forbid a developer have like, a physical piece of hardware they need to test on. Unthinkable in the year 2018, must be evidence of outdated management processes.

Code entry, and therefore typing proficiency, is the limiting factor of the majority of development.

All my work at my last job was on embedded devices. (We made widgets, and watches, and cameras and all sorts of other things) and I worked with several people who were remote. It was never an issue. Just had to remember to ship them a test unit or 3 every so often. One of them was so good at staying in touch I kept forgetting he worked remotely until it was time to schedule the next round of HW deliveries.

Working on HW is not a meaningful impediment to remote work. The goal is to eventually ship thousands if not hundreds of thousands of your product after all. If the corporation is having a hard time shipping a single test unit they're going to have real trouble when it comes time to actually sell the silly thing.

LLSix fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 14:53

Dogcow
Jun 21, 2005



LLSix posted:

All my work at my lost job

Nice Freudian lovely Springsteen B side. Has anyone ever worked on (a) project(s) where they had no idea if the product was ever even used or not?

It seems like a kind of bizarre situation made possible only by the bizarro world of defense contracting. It's like, well, it might be great? It might be used all the time and save money and time and keep 'murica safe.. or it's never actually even been used by any end user. Seriously these are equally possible outcomes due to things I know about the projects. And the odd thing is absolutely no one else seems to care at all, or at least they've never mentioned it. I'm at the point where I don't know any more if it's weird that I get preoccupied with it, but it just seems hard to be motivated when you actually have no idea if the thing will even be used.

Supposedly there is a very high 'failure rate' for projects though what the hell that means I don't know. A couple weeks ago I very inadvertently found a bug in IE (all they use of course) that rendered a significant portion of the UI on the homepage unusable. This is an app that has been in production for months now.

I suppose this is just military_industrial_complex.txt that anyone ever on a defense project could write

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.


Dogcow posted:

Nice Freudian lovely Springsteen B side. Has anyone ever worked on (a) project(s) where they had no idea if the product was ever even used or not?

It seems like a kind of bizarre situation made possible only by the bizarro world of defense contracting. It's like, well, it might be great? It might be used all the time and save money and time and keep 'murica safe.. or it's never actually even been used by any end user. Seriously these are equally possible outcomes due to things I know about the projects. And the odd thing is absolutely no one else seems to care at all, or at least they've never mentioned it. I'm at the point where I don't know any more if it's weird that I get preoccupied with it, but it just seems hard to be motivated when you actually have no idea if the thing will even be used.

Supposedly there is a very high 'failure rate' for projects though what the hell that means I don't know. A couple weeks ago I very inadvertently found a bug in IE (all they use of course) that rendered a significant portion of the UI on the homepage unusable. This is an app that has been in production for months now.

I suppose this is just military_industrial_complex.txt that anyone ever on a defense project could write

I've worked in (civilian) consulting and there's sometimes the same kind of thing. Organizations want, and then later don't want but have already paid for, software for all kinds of reasons, and for some consulting companies landing a project which costs a lot but winds up never going to prod or going to prod and never having any end-users is practically a victory condition. If feeling pride in "real people's lives are improved by the things I've worked on" is important to you, it can be a hard corner of the industry to work in.

Plorkyeran
Mar 21, 2007

Plorky Pig, let's get that Maria+Holic typesetting done yeah? You're starting to develop the requtation of lazy and slow, so ammend that for your own sake


The one time I did defense contracting the project I was working on was explicitly never intended to actually be used. A different department already had a working version of the thing we were building but wouldn't share it, so we were supposed to make it look like we had a bunch of useful features they didn't have so that they'd agree to an exchange. Naturally the punchline was that it turned out that their version didn't work either.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008




LLSix posted:

All my work at my lost job was on embedded devices. (We made widgets, and watches, and cameras and all sorts of other things) and I worked with several people who were remote. It was never an issue. Just had to remember to ship them a test unit or 3 every so often. One of them was so good at staying in touch I kept forgetting he worked remotely until it was time to schedule the next round of HW deliveries.

Working on HW is not a meaningful impediment to remote work. The goal is to eventually ship thousands if not hundreds of thousands of your product after all. If the corporation is having a hard time shipping a single test unit they're going to have real trouble when it comes time to actually sell the silly thing.

Counterpoint: I too have worked on hardware. Generally we didn't work on the mass produced hardware that eventually went to the consumer because that didn't exist yet because, obviously, we were in the process of developing it. We had large, fragile prototype boards and every so often there would be a hardware fault that meant the hardware guys would have to solder something or change a physical connection and I'm pretty sure they would not have been excited to drive to my house to do that. Nor would they have been thrilled to come round and put an oscilloscope on something while I poked it to determine whether something bad happening was a hardware or a software problem. Hardware can absolutely be an impediment to remote work.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





feedmegin posted:

Counterpoint: I too have worked on hardware. Generally we didn't work on the mass produced hardware that eventually went to the consumer because that didn't exist yet because, obviously, we were in the process of developing it. We had large, fragile prototype boards and every so often there would be a hardware fault that meant the hardware guys would have to solder something or change a physical connection and I'm pretty sure they would not have been excited to drive to my house to do that. Nor would they have been thrilled to come round and put an oscilloscope on something while I poked it to determine whether something bad happening was a hardware or a software problem. Hardware can absolutely be an impediment to remote work.

You're a hardware production company right? Simple!
Product 1: remote waldo system with built-in diagnostic tools
Product 2: whatever your actual product is

I'm sure the PMs would be fine with that.

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Plorkyeran posted:

The one time I did defense contracting the project I was working on was explicitly never intended to actually be used. A different department already had a working version of the thing we were building but wouldn't share it, so we were supposed to make it look like we had a bunch of useful features they didn't have so that they'd agree to an exchange. Naturally the punchline was that it turned out that their version didn't work either.

It's less funny when this happens and you work on medical device software.

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



Pillbug

Pollyanna posted:

Don't contract roles practically require you to quote a high price like that to be worth it?

Take whatever counts as a reasonable salary for your area and experience, and divide that by 1000. That's the rate you quote, but you can probably accept 10-15% less and still be whole, depending on the insurance you pick.

Also you'll probably want to create an S corp to receive the money, pay yourself a reasonable salary from and take the rest as pass-through because that'll probably get you a lower overall tax rate, but you'd want to talk to an accountant about specifics.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





Munkeymon posted:

Take whatever counts as a reasonable salary for your area and experience, and divide that by 1000. That's the rate you quote, but you can probably accept 10-15% less and still be whole, depending on the insurance you pick..

I'd say that's a good rule of thumb. I've set my prices through trial and error and it's wound up about at that.

Of course when you're quoting a fixed price job all that goes out the window and you quote as high as you can get away with.

vonnegutt
Aug 7, 2006
Hobocamp.


Munkeymon posted:

Also you'll probably want to create an S corp to receive the money, pay yourself a reasonable salary from and take the rest as pass-through because that'll probably get you a lower overall tax rate, but you'd want to talk to an accountant about specifics.

I've usually heard to create an LLC for independent contractors. What's the advantage of an S-corp vs an LLC?

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012


vonnegutt posted:

I've usually heard to create an LLC for independent contractors. What's the advantage of an S-corp vs an LLC?

S-corp is what you want to do when you want to eventually sell your company. The difference is in how the enterprise value is calculated (because of a slight tax difference), which is relevant for mergers and acquisitions.

Source: I read a bunch of entrepreneur books last year along with all of the programming books and video courses.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Munkeymon posted:

Take whatever counts as a reasonable salary for your area and experience, and divide that by 1000. That's the rate you quote, but you can probably accept 10-15% less and still be whole, depending on the insurance you pick.

Iíll be greedy and begin the bidding at $120 I guess, just to be an rear end in a top hat.

quote:

Also you'll probably want to create an S corp to receive the money, pay yourself a reasonable salary from and take the rest as pass-through because that'll probably get you a lower overall tax rate, but you'd want to talk to an accountant about specifics.

sounds capitalist but ok

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



Pillbug

vonnegutt posted:

I've usually heard to create an LLC for independent contractors. What's the advantage of an S-corp vs an LLC?

My accountant said S corp and that's what stuck in my head but he's a CPA, not a corporate lawyer

Pollyanna posted:

sounds capitalist but ok

Call your congressperson and tell them you want real tax reform with some loopholes closed, then, I guess.

Munkeymon fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 15:08

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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Pollyanna posted:

sounds capitalist but ok

Don't hate the playa hate the game

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