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Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


So that opportunity I thought was a 1099 is actually a W-2 through a recruiter agency - is that a thing? They said they needed an hourly rate before they could put my name in, and said they could give me an hourly rate of like 50~55 per hour. Anyone ever contract through a recruiter before? Given their reputation, Iím not exactly excited to accept.

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Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Pollyanna posted:

So that opportunity I thought was a 1099 is actually a W-2 through a recruiter agency - is that a thing?
Yeah theyíre called temp agencies. Though nowadays they like to be called ďstaffing solutions.Ē

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Haha, gently caress that then.

rt4
Feb 19, 2008


Grimey Drawer

$55/hr hourly sounds good to me. It also means you get paid for the hours you work, so a Saturday of work means some nice extra money.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Wouldnít that be taxed money though? So itís work out to like 35 or something. gently caress, I canít math.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

If it is W2 does it include benefits and stuff? If so that's pretty good money. At my old company we had a bunch of contractors who worked through an agency like that and they seemed to be doing ok, even if the company I worked for stopped needing them their company just found them a different place and I think they still got paid during the downtime. There was some rules about how long they could be contractors for us (some kind of legal issue that hit after a certain number of years), but the ones I worked with stayed around for years if they were competent and good ones were often hired as full time employees if we wanted to keep them after a few years and they wanted to stay.

prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.


Pollyanna posted:

Anyone ever contract through a recruiter before?

Never done it, but my understanding is that in situations like this the "recruiter" (for whom you are working as a W-2 employee while actually doing poo poo for X other company) will often offer health insurance and possibly other bennies... unless the role or the recruiter are garbo
edit: beaten

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



Pillbug

Pollyanna posted:

Wouldnít that be taxed money though? So itís work out to like 35 or something. gently caress, I canít math.

Hourly W2 is where your employer withholds taxes, pays payroll taxes ($$$), and can provide insurance as a benefit, but you're paid by the (billable) hour instead of salary/250*days-in-pay-period. It can be a better deal if you end up with tons of crunch time because, instead of diluting your effective hourly wage by adding hours to the pay period that you're not getting any more money for, it just means your next paycheck is getting fatter the longer the crunch time lasts.

On the other hand, if you're not on a client, you might not get paid anything at all, depending on how the agency structures non-billable hour compensation.

Jose Valasquez posted:

If it is W2 does it include benefits and stuff? If so that's pretty good money. At my old company we had a bunch of contractors who worked through an agency like that and they seemed to be doing ok, even if the company I worked for stopped needing them their company just found them a different place and I think they still got paid during the downtime. There was some rules about how long they could be contractors for us (some kind of legal issue that hit after a certain number of years), but the ones I worked with stayed around for years if they were competent and good ones were often hired as full time employees if we wanted to keep them after a few years and they wanted to stay.

Yeah, I was with an agency like this for a couple years but it turns out that places that really need tons of placement consultants tend to suck to work at because they can't hire and retain normal employees. Good deal otherwise, though

E: or can't figure out how to not suck to work at so normal employees bail when the market is good so in come the placement consultants.

Munkeymon fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 17:31

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Pollyanna posted:

Wouldnít that be taxed money though? So itís work out to like 35 or something. gently caress, I canít math.

All money is going to be taxed, but it is still in the ballpark of $110k pretax. That's not bad money if it includes benefits.
If it doesn't then it's not as good, but what were you making before?

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


The other concern is that benefits and stuff would be through them, and they admitted they arenít too great.

Hmmm, maybe I really donít understand this as much as I thought. Good to know...

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



Pillbug

Pollyanna posted:

The other concern is that benefits and stuff would be through them, and they admitted they arenít too great.

Do these people not understand the concept of sales or what

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I know, right?

Munkeymon posted:

Yeah, I was with an agency like this for a couple years but it turns out that places that really need tons of placement consultants tend to suck to work at because they can't hire and retain normal employees. Good deal otherwise, though

This is a government job, and theyíre required to go thru recruiting agencies for some reason. So I have no point of reference on whether itís cause they canít hire someone full time or something.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


Pro-tip: Set up an email address just for the job search. Don't be like me and post a resume with "Spark" "Scala" "Hadoop" "Bigg.ly" "Data.big" "GosuData.info" "Massive.r" "Date.uh" "Content.ly" "Optomizely" and a million other stupid buzzwords that will trigger every recruiting system.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Pro-tip: Set up an email address just for the job search. Don't be like me and post a resume with "Spark" "Scala" "Hadoop" "Bigg.ly" "Data.big" "GosuData.info" "Massive.r" "Date.uh" "Content.ly" "Optomizely" and a million other stupid buzzwords that will trigger every recruiting system.

How many of those did you make up? Those can't all be real

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


Jose Valasquez posted:

How many of those did you make up? Those can't all be real

Convincing though, right? "Bigg.ly" "Data.big" "GosuData.info" "Massive.r" "Date.uh

Yes this and this are real.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Pollyanna posted:

So that opportunity I thought was a 1099 is actually a W-2 through a recruiter agency - is that a thing? They said they needed an hourly rate before they could put my name in, and said they could give me an hourly rate of like 50~55 per hour. Anyone ever contract through a recruiter before? Given their reputation, Iím not exactly excited to accept.

If you have nothing better to do, why not? You should still look for a real job, but this should help tamp down your anxiety in your job search. If you find a better job in 2 weeks, whatever, they are a temp agency. They promise you temporary work, you give them temporary loyalty.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

I keep messing up the various threads, but we talked about 2018 goals and I have met mine today. Weird. Today I sat down with the teamlead to look at some module I had a test proposal for and so he could point out some stuff in the code. A good time was had by both, my idea is sound and he has a developer that has ideas and wishes to improve himself and the codebase in one swoop.
His face when I told him that I saw an opportunity advertised that was a 100% match for my skills now that I would be working on this part (Spring and Spring Boot) was one of amazement, dispair and shock. So I explained that as a contractor I always keep an eye on the market and I am not planning an exit. He relaxed a bit.
It is good to be a valued employee.

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007
I'M A FUCKING IDIOT



W-2 through an agency is fairly often not temp work, but mid to long term contract work. My first job was at such a place, took salary from 40k to over 100k over four years at the same client and springboarded my career fairly well.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



Good Will Hrunting posted:

Pro-tip: Set up an email address just for the job search. Don't be like me and post a resume with "Spark" "Scala" "Hadoop" "Bigg.ly" "Data.big" "GosuData.info" "Massive.r" "Date.uh" "Content.ly" "Optomizely" and a million other stupid buzzwords that will trigger every recruiting system.

Take it further and do a unique E-Mail address per application. That way when you get mail like:

To: t-mobile@hughlander.com
Subject: Opportunity

Hi! I came across your resume and I'd like to tell you about this exciting opportunity...

You know exactly who sold your e-mail and can just burn the whole thing.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


Damnit, speaking to HR and management is less exciting than my boss updates. They're too nice and our conversations are too normal. It's almost like when two people who are kind and proficient communicators speak to each other, a lot of very uninteresting things happen.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Damnit, speaking to HR and management is less exciting than my boss updates. They're too nice and our conversations are too normal. It's almost like when two people who are kind and proficient communicators speak to each other, a lot of very uninteresting things happen.

drat, you sound like an abused spouse.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Somehow Amazon is at least passingly interested in me (I have no idea why), so they want to set up a phone/online interview to cover "coding, data structures, and operating systems fundamentals, as well as design questions". I have no idea what this will cover and I'm not exactly expecting to pass it, but has anyone done Amazon's phone screens? What do they usually cover?

If it's some graph theory stuff, hardcore C, or complicated algorithms, I'm probably doomed - I've heard they're really hard.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Pollyanna posted:

Somehow Amazon is at least passingly interested in me (I have no idea why)
Don't take this the wrong way, but Amazon will usually throw a coding challenge at anyone who claims to be able to program.

Pollyanna posted:

If it's some graph theory stuff, hardcore C, or complicated algorithms, I'm probably doomed - I've heard they're really hard.
Amazon's usually not too difficult, at least not for the first round. Basic data structures, basic graph and tree algorithms, threads, etc. -- typical CtCI stuff.

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at Jan 16, 2018 around 01:00

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

quote <> edit

Moon Wizard
Dec 29, 2011



Pollyanna posted:

Somehow Amazon is at least passingly interested in me (I have no idea why), so they want to set up a phone/online interview to cover "coding, data structures, and operating systems fundamentals, as well as design questions". I have no idea what this will cover and I'm not exactly expecting to pass it, but has anyone done Amazon's phone screens? What do they usually cover?

If it's some graph theory stuff, hardcore C, or complicated algorithms, I'm probably doomed - I've heard they're really hard.

Have you read CTCI? I don't remember exactly which phone screen question I was asked for Amazon but it was probably directly from it. My general impression is that phone screen questions are usually easier than the ones asked on site.

You're probably putting too much emphasis on the fact that you're not qualified for an interview when it's really just a matter of preparation. Big 4 style interviews are basically a game and you can get a big leg up just by studying.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Hm. I got CTCI years ago when I was first trying to get a job, but ended up forgetting about it when it turned out that most of the stuff in it didn't really apply to what I'd be doing (and still hasn't). Given what I'm hearing, I don't think I'm prepared for this screening - is it still worth a try?

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Don't take this the wrong way, but Amazon will usually throw a coding challenge at anyone who claims to be able to program.

Hah, I figured.

Moon Wizard posted:

You're probably putting too much emphasis on the fact that you're not qualified for an interview when it's really just a matter of preparation. Big 4 style interviews are basically a game and you can get a big leg up just by studying.

I guess this is one of those things I'd have to explicitly prepare for, yeah. Maybe in the future I'll gear up for the Big 4 gauntlet.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Pollyanna posted:

I don't think I'm prepared for this screening - is it still worth a try?
Always. Best case scenario? You move on to the next round. Worst case scenario? You get experience at a task you want to get better at. It's not like they'll put you on a "do not call" list or something. You can always reapply.

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008


Pollyanna posted:

I don't think I'm prepared for this screening - is it still worth a try?

literally (like literally) the only thing you lose out on from applying and not being hired is the ability to apply for another ~year. the only time i can think of where an interviewee was effectively blacklisted was when he said some p derogatory things about his previous interviewer.

as for the phone screen, i generally think its more geared towards finding reasons why you should be given an onsite as opposed to a first step weeder pass. this is mostly to account for the lack of multiple inputs into the process, as well as that whole phone/shared code editor setup.

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.


Pollyanna posted:

Somehow Amazon is at least passingly interested in me (I have no idea why), so they want to set up a phone/online interview to cover "coding, data structures, and operating systems fundamentals, as well as design questions". I have no idea what this will cover and I'm not exactly expecting to pass it, but has anyone done Amazon's phone screens? What do they usually cover?

If it's some graph theory stuff, hardcore C, or complicated algorithms, I'm probably doomed - I've heard they're really hard.

I interviewed there maybe 6 months ago. The coding questions in the phone screen were a basic one which more or less boiled down to simple knowledge of a data structure, and a slightly more complex algorithm question. The interviewer also asked a question along the lines of "tell me what's going on, technically, when I ssh into another computer".

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

My fingers are set to vibrate


Fun Shoe

By comparison, I interviewed at Google four times before getting hired. They don't care if you fail, even if you fail several times. I'm sure the other Big Tech companies are the same way.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

fantastic in plastic posted:

"tell me what's going on, technically, when I ssh into another computer".

Another popular question along these lines is to ask you to describe what happens when you type a web address into your browser and hit enter.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Grimey Drawer

At the end of last week, my new boss sent out an email introducing me to the boss of another department. The latter boss turned me down for a job something like two years ago. I wonder if she remembers me!

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


TooMuchAbstraction posted:

By comparison, I interviewed at Google four times before getting hired. They don't care if you fail, even if you fail several times. I'm sure the other Big Tech companies are the same way.

Yep. Six months at Facebook to reapply, if memory serves.

Doh004
Apr 22, 2007

Mmmmm Donuts...

CPColin posted:

At the end of last week, my new boss sent out an email introducing me to the boss of another department. The latter boss turned me down for a job something like two years ago. I wonder if she remembers me!

Definitely not.

Pollyanna posted:

Hm. I got CTCI years ago when I was first trying to get a job, but ended up forgetting about it when it turned out that most of the stuff in it didn't really apply to what I'd be doing (and still hasn't). Given what I'm hearing, I don't think I'm prepared for this screening - is it still worth a try?

Just loving do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

metztli
Mar 19, 2006
Which lead to the obvious photoshop, making me suspect that their ad agencies or creative types must be aware of what goes on at SA

Do all the BigTech companies require CS degrees? Or do they ever hire reasonably decent devs without that background but a history of shipping product, having excellent soft skills?

If they do hire people like that, are they more forgiving of not knowing weird algorithmic stuff and do they consider the non-CS skill set when hiring?

The March Hare
Oct 15, 2006

Je rÍve d'un
Wayne's World 3


Buglord

metztli posted:

Do all the BigTech companies require CS degrees? Or do they ever hire reasonably decent devs without that background but a history of shipping product, having excellent soft skills?

If they do hire people like that, are they more forgiving of not knowing weird algorithmic stuff and do they consider the non-CS skill set when hiring?

They def. hire people without degrees, I can't imagine they are more forgiving in interviews though.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

They'll hire anyone who can pass their coding interviews.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

metztli posted:

Do all the BigTech companies require CS degrees?
No, it helps though.

quote:

Or do they ever hire reasonably decent devs without that background but a history of shipping product, having excellent soft skills?

If they do hire people like that, are they more forgiving of not knowing weird algorithmic stuff and do they consider the non-CS skill set when hiring?
At least at Google the interview is going to be more or less the same I think. There may be some minor variations like asking more mathy questions if someone has a strong math background but generally you're going to get questions similar to those in CtCI and leetcode.com

Being able to communicate well is important, but for interviews it is really only done in context of the whiteboarding problems you are working on, so you've still got to be able to make progress (not necessarily solve) the problems you're given.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012


ultrafilter posted:

They'll hire anyone who can pass their coding interviews.

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Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I feel like I should get a CS degree in the future just in case a Big 4 style interview happens. It can only help, right?

Been thinking about further education, actually. Has anyone with a non-CS-specific background fine back to school for a Masters or Ph.D in something after working a while? What did you go for? I feel like itís not a good idea to go for a higher degree unless youíre sure what you want to work in, though.

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