Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«267 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


Polyanna I want to start a company just so I can give you a job

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Everything considered, that is not to bad. You work for the govt, no more than 40h and you can expect about the same job security as any other job you might find which is none. The only real risk is that they ask you to work much less than 40 hours in which case you simply again.

My advice would be to take the job, shut up a while and work while you sort out for yourself why things have been going as they have been going. I am sure you read my post in the other thread, we all struggle with direction. All hail Skandranon.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Good Will Hrunting posted:

Polyanna I want to start a company just so I can give you a job

No you do not

Keetron posted:

Everything considered, that is not to bad. You work for the govt, no more than 40h and you can expect about the same job security as any other job you might find which is none. The only real risk is that they ask you to work much less than 40 hours in which case you simply again.

My advice would be to take the job, shut up a while and work while you sort out for yourself why things have been going as they have been going. I am sure you read my post in the other thread, we all struggle with direction. All hail Skandranon.

Honestly, yeah. I got a lot of thinking to do.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


Keetron posted:

I am sure you read my post in the other thread, we all struggle with direction. All hail Skandranon.

No! link please because...

Took some time this weekend - after my tryst phoned me Friday evening and told me that upper management is indeed aware of the very problematic issues around my sub-team and its dealings - to reflect on what I like about my job and what I don't like:

Likes
- $130k comp with 4.5 years of engineering experience seems pretty decent (though money isn't that important to me)
- 8 hours, very rarely more
- Easy commute
- Come and go as I please

Dislikes
- Big Data is actually pretty, pretty boring (N.B. - part of a larger existential crisis???)
- Management sucks as I've bored you all with already

Potential plus
- New lead (TODO: determine how much old lead will bleed into his efforts)
- Autonomy maybe a little?

I came away with nothing but uncertainty around what direction to go in.

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



Pillbug

No mention of your hookup in any of those categories? Ice cold

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Consulting-ish job decided not to go forward with me - I did well in the interview, but they went with someone more senior. Oh well another place that I thought I completely and loving utterly bombed actually said they liked my personality and my experience but that I'd be better on another group that's more focused on developer support, so maybe that will work out. All in all, continuing the search.

I gotta say, I am somewhat concerned that I'm a month into my search and I still haven't secured new employment. I've been very selective, of course, but maybe the adage that you can get a new job in a couple weeks or so doesn't apply to me yet.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



You've been shitposting for two weeks about a job you didn't even have an offer for? jfc

And it's not that the adage doesn't apply to you, it's that you admit to being excessively selective.

I don't know your financial position, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be taking the first job that I can get and then keep looking for a good job while employed

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I would argue that being selective is better than just grabbing any random job that is interested. And there's nothing wrong with asking for perspective I don't have much experience with. But I get it.

Mniot
May 22, 2003
Not the one you know

Pollyanna posted:

I've been very selective, of course, but maybe the adage that you can get a new job in a couple weeks or so doesn't apply to me yet.

Yeah, I actually do believe that if you interviewed hard (like it was your full-time job), tried to get as many on-site interviews as possible (regardless of company quality), managed to act totally enthusiastic for every one, and went after any offer (meaning you try to bargain them up a bit, but with the intention of accepting), then you would have a new job in 2-3 weeks. Might be one that you quit a few weeks later, but that's all anyone means when they say they can get a job on short notice.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Good Will Hrunting posted:

No! link please because...

https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...7#post480765811

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Being selective is fine as long as you aren't hurting for cash, but keep in mind there is no perfect job. All code bases are varying levels of garbage fire, there is someone at every company that you won't like, there are days when you're going to hate everything and everyone and want to just burn it all down no matter where you work. Some of that can be minimized but not eliminated.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Jose Valasquez posted:

Being selective is fine as long as you aren't hurting for cash, but keep in mind there is no perfect job. All code bases are varying levels of garbage fire, there is someone at every company that you won't like, there are days when you're going to hate everything and everyone and want to just burn it all down no matter where you work. Some of that can be minimized but not eliminated.

I am aware of this - the question is what you're willing to compromise on. At this stage in life, I value long-term opportunity and stable employment, and that's what I'll favor.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008



Taco Defender

Pollyanna should be selective, because they've had 2(?) jobs in a row that were poo poo and quickly quit/got-fired from.

And you should legitimately go to a therapist because you don't seem to have a clue what you want to do, how to get there, or how to interact with other people succesfully. Like I don't doubt your last job wasn't good, but you got let go right away because you didn't even sort of attempt to toe the line and fit in. I legit wish you well, but you're not just gonna luck into a great job that works perfectly for you with your disjointed current approach of seriously considering anything that even sorta seems like a job and polling this thread for life advice.

metztli
Mar 19, 2006
Which lead to the obvious photoshop, making me suspect that their ad agencies or creative types must be aware of what goes on at SA

Being selective works best if you know what you want to select for, it can be effectively selected for, you have the ability to assess those factors reasonably accurately, and most crucially, you have the ability to capitalize on those things when you find them.

Finding a great place to work and then loving it up because you don't know how to handle it is infinitely worse than finding a lovely place and dealing with it until they fire you or you quit.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012


I for one am empathetic to Pollyana's predicament because I know how it feels to be abused by particularly nasty bosses or coworkers.

Just wanted to add at least one post here that isn't harsh or critical since everyone here is taking a position on the matter.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005
Engage according to operational parameters


Ooh, that's good.

Loutre
Jan 14, 2004

✓COMFY
✓CLASSY
✓HORNY
✓PEPSI

Skype interview tomorrow, having never done a webcam interview before. First phone interview + online skills test went well, so not too worried - except the only webcam I have is running at around 5 FPS for some reason.

Time to go blow $40 bucks on a new one for a single hour long interview! Interview's with the manager and 3 technical leads in related areas, it's a SQL/BI job which is all I've ever done.

Any hot tips for a webcam interview? They mentioned the office is "casual" but it's still a fortune-500 manufacturing company, so I'm thinking blue dress shirt/no tie or jacket.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Loutre posted:

Any hot tips for a webcam interview?
Make sure you won't be interrupted (roommates, kids, pets, whatever). Test your setup first. Don't have anything embarrassing or incriminating in the background.

I often suggest people book a study room at a local library for webcam interviews, assuming it has reliable Internet. You get privacy, space to spread out materials (notebook, whatever), and usually a whiteboard.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

- Big Data is actually pretty, pretty boring (N.B. - part of a larger existential crisis???)

Software development in general isn't very exciting most of of the time. You're doing all right financially and your job isn't all that time-consuming, so unless you've got a better alternative, you should probably just suck it up and focusing on your life outside of work for stimulation.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005
Engage according to operational parameters

Loutre posted:

Time to go blow $40 bucks on a new one for a single hour long interview!

An underused power play is to send them an invoice for the webcam. It establishes you as a dominant, business-focused individual with management potential.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



Or the passive aggressive option of submitting an expense report for the camera after you get hired.

meatpotato
Feb 3, 2005



Ramrod XTreme

Cirofren posted:

We do this a lot. Getting a full time employee involves coordination with HR and the CFO, separate candidate interviews with HR and the CFO, a series of tests, and a pre-employment medical. It can take months. If I need hands on keyboards in anything less than 8 weeks it'll be a contractor and if they're good it's always easier to onboard when they're already in the building.

What software area requires a medical examination???

mrmcd
Feb 22, 2003



Pollyanna you should -- *flicks board game spinner* ...

Right foot green.

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

Grimey Drawer

Whoa if you’re going right foot green you should ask for at least 3x current salary and condition your bosses so that if they ask you to stay 20 seconds late you just say the word “door” and they break down crying.

If you’re not up for that you can probably move to Detroit and go left hand red instead

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Shredded Hen

Nah, right red hand is the way to go

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


can't i just play connect one instead

Cirofren
Jun 13, 2005



Pillbug

meatpotato posted:

What software area requires a medical examination???

The industry is heavy manufacturing / construction. Standard for everyone from site machine operators to office reception.

Meanwhile I just got sent this posting:

quote:

Surrounded, clearly by a team of high achievers all cultivated in the broth of Scrum, you will be stepping into one of their major streams.

genki
Nov 12, 2003


Cirofren posted:

Meanwhile I just got sent this posting:
Cultivated in the broth of Scrum... sounds like scientists experimenting with bacteria in a lab. Gross. I suggest not stepping in that stream without a lot of protective gear.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Cirofren posted:

Surrounded, clearly by a team of high achievers all cultivated in the broth of Scrum, you will be stepping into one of their major streams.

Are you employed by @erowidrecruiter?

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


meatpotato posted:

What software area requires a medical examination???

Candidate, we must discover your suitability for coding horrors.

*pipes C style casts in C++ code directly into your brain*

We have determined you unsuitable for our needs. Move along.

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.


Cirofren posted:

Meanwhile I just got sent this posting:

Oh, so that's what became of the guy who wrote The Eye of Argon.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Pollyanna posted:

I gotta say, I am somewhat concerned that I'm a month into my search and I still haven't secured new employment. I've been very selective, of course, but maybe the adage that you can get a new job in a couple weeks or so doesn't apply to me yet.

During a rocky patch in my career it took me four months to get an offer, while using a recruiter and interviewing anywhere I could, and I'm a good enough engineer to have made it into Facebook. Insecurity comes with the territory but sometimes you gotta persist until someone you want to take a chance on takes a chance on you.

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Doing software engineering at a consulting company is the way to go. Hoping it works out for Pollyanna.

Unlike in a random BigCompany where software engineers are usually a cost sink, in a consulting company you are the breadwinner who brings the company straight profit. That makes a really significant difference IMO. Your company might actually care about your working conditions and happiness.

You might work with crap codebases from time to time. On the other hand, you're not seen as 100% responsible for the mess. There is variety, and you get good experience. On a good day, you even get greenfield projects.

Unlike Pollyanna, or some devs in my company, I'm personally at a salaried position (with a performance bonus), so I'm not getting a straight fraction of the billable hours I put in. At the same time, if the company doesn't have a project for me, they're still paying me money. I just spend free time between projects on learning new technologies and such.

pigdog fucked around with this message at Jan 30, 2018 around 10:49

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008




pigdog posted:

Unlike in a random BigCompany where software engineers are usually a cost sink, in a consulting company you are the breadwinner who brings the company straight profit. That makes a really significant difference IMO. Your company might actually care about your working conditions and happiness.

Counterpoint, I've worked for two consulting companies in a salaried position now and lol no neither of them gave a poo poo, you're there to make them money and they would squeeze you as much as they could to e.g. spend months at a time in foreign countries at two days' notice. Management in both places very much viewed you as a resource rather than a person.

Conditions will vary from company to company, of course.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





Also the other counterpoint, most product-based companies I've been at have been good to their developers because like sales they are only one step removed from billing and the connection is clear enough for them to join the dots.

IT, though, TWO steps removed from billing, congrats being nothing but a cost center forever.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


ultrafilter posted:

Software development in general isn't very exciting most of of the time. You're doing all right financially and your job isn't all that time-consuming, so unless you've got a better alternative, you should probably just suck it up and focusing on your life outside of work for stimulation.

Is there nothing more to life than being "all right financially" and focusing on life outside of work cause if so I'm never going to make it in this world

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Good Will Hrunting posted:

Is there nothing more to life than being "all right financially" and focusing on life outside of work cause if so I'm never going to make it in this world

The idea that you live to work instead of work to live is a fallacy steeped in puritan work ethic and capitalist exploitation. Your job isn't the only thing about you, and a life on the whole is a terrible thing to waste. Remember that this is ultimately a means to an end, that end being properly balancing financial stability and a fulfilling life.

B-Nasty
May 25, 2005



I'd argue that even in companies that don't have directly technical products, the 'only viewed as a cost-center' idea is starting to shift.

It was certainly true in the 2000-2010, but now, with almost everything being done with software, and much of it offered as SaaS, there's no turning back the wheel. Things like: complexity with integrating all these services, sharing important data, and business-specific intranet/LOB apps all directly add a ton of, very visible, value to most businesses. 15 years ago if you told a random, manager-level worker in a F500 that his laptop would be broken for the day, he would maybe be slowed down a bit. Today, he might as well go home, because he's so dependent.

That boring, intranet, CRUD app you're writing is probably saving the company tens of thousands of dollars every year. A good engineer can easily add value and increase profits that are measured in multiples of their cost. I mean, there's a reason why even non-tech companies are paying Jr. SE salaries that probably equal or exceed what they pay their middle-managers with decades of experience.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Is there nothing more to life than being "all right financially" and focusing on life outside of work cause if so I'm never going to make it in this world

There is so much more, but when it comes to your job, that goal is pretty solid. Making it in this world can and should be found outside of work. It is not easy but can be done. Basically what PollyAnna said already.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

B-Nasty posted:

I'd argue that even in companies that don't have directly technical products, the 'only viewed as a cost-center' idea is starting to shift.

It was certainly true in the 2000-2010, but now, with almost everything being done with software, and much of it offered as SaaS, there's no turning back the wheel. Things like: complexity with integrating all these services, sharing important data, and business-specific intranet/LOB apps all directly add a ton of, very visible, value to most businesses. 15 years ago if you told a random, manager-level worker in a F500 that his laptop would be broken for the day, he would maybe be slowed down a bit. Today, he might as well go home, because he's so dependent.

That boring, intranet, CRUD app you're writing is probably saving the company tens of thousands of dollars every year. A good engineer can easily add value and increase profits that are measured in multiples of their cost. I mean, there's a reason why even non-tech companies are paying Jr. SE salaries that probably equal or exceed what they pay their middle-managers with decades of experience.

Another takeaway from this, is that the career path of worker-middlemanager-uppermanager is very, very dead. Many people have a hard time accepting this and thus the fewer management positions are desired by many more than there are places thus causing lower compensation and shittier work conditions. You are better off in software development as it gives you flexibility in workplace and pretty good compensation for the amount of responsibility.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«267 »