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i havent ever gotten good results out of offshore devs that we didnt pay less than the equivalent of 75k usd / dev, total cost like 100k/dev. that's cheaper than us dev- but not 5x cheaper
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Jun 9, 2020 14:32
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Hello - would this be an appropriate place to ask for advice on how to extricate myself out of a bad job situation or would that be better served in some career thread, e/n, etc? I'm taking steps to resolve it as best I can but a check from seasoned heads would be well appreciated as I'm only ~2 years into this
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Jun 9, 2020 15:03
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We're all experts at making the right career choices in here, so 
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Jun 9, 2020 15:04
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bob dobbs is dead posted:i havent ever gotten good results out of offshore devs that we didnt pay less than the equivalent of 75k usd / dev, total cost like 100k/dev. that's cheaper than us dev- but not 5x cheaper  My experience with cheap offshore resources is that you get even less than what you pay for. I was on a team that was making good progress on a project, about 4 months in we added some cheap offshore resources to speed up the project and because of the amount of time I spent holding their hands and fixing their bugs the project just ground to a halt. We made little to no meaningful progress for the remainder of the year and the project was eventually cancelled.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:00
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rt4 posted:We're all experts at making the right career choices in here, so EDIT: Some frankly unnecessary sharing here, but thank you everyone for your responses. Sleng Teng fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Aug 1, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 16:07
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your resume is a marketing document and the interview is a sales process do you have a funnel, do you have a target employer, are you prospecting regularly and with solid quantity
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Jun 9, 2020 16:43
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Sleng Teng posted:1. Job search grind. I'm under no illusions that I have a competitive profile (I'm not really developing where I am, not that much experience, fell backwards into this role, etc.) so this is a bit demoralizing. My local area isn't bad but isn't the hottest so I'm looking nationwide and remote but it seems to be an awful time to be looking. Prioritize #5, then balance #1 and #4 as best you can. The hiring manager looking at a GitHub profile is much less likely than them appreciating soft skills, so any other time you feel you have should go into #3 and only work on #2 if you can justify it under self-care.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:44
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Che Delilas posted:You are going to find excellent developers locally whose only fault was that they were working in an industry that was vulnerable to a quarantine situation. Go local. You're reading waaaaaaay too much into this post. I use the term resource to refer to the offshore team because they aren't necessarily developers, as my manager has suggested adding QA or other roles than just developers. And yes, I got caught in corporate lingo, I'll change that around. I absolutely don't think of my developers as just input:output - I have to justify that to corporate, but I would never just consider these folks as units of production. In a way, I'm probably too friendly with them, but we were peers before they were my reports, so that's probably not going to change. I'm very close to being just an engineer myself (in fact, I'm supposed to be 40:60 engineer:manager, though I feel like it's more 10:90 at this point), so my view is very close to the ground. I get the sense that a lot of managers in this corporate structure don't come from an engineering background so my job has become translating corporate numbers to actual developers. I'm not sure why the departing engineer decided to only give me a 1 week's notice. I had a good chat with them when they gave me their notice and again with this week's normal 1:1, and their reason for leaving is more about being uncomfortable with corporate than anything on our dev team. They went back to their previous company, so I think it's just a stability move. vonnegutt posted:"High velocity" offshore devs who need massive oversight seems like an oxymoron. Velocity is a measure of one thing - tickets closed, probably, but unless you have some very good metrics there is no guarantee that those tickets are never reopened / don't cause N bug reports to be filed / don't require reworking. The amount of oversight needed to keep them productive (finding stuff easy enough to do, reviewing PRs, etc) doesn't seem to be considered as part of this "high velocity", because by your own math, it seems they have average velocity at best. This is indeed oxymoronic. They are high velocity in the sense that they could clear tickets almost as fast as we could give them and their biggest bottleneck was waiting for us to review. But you're right in that the amount of oversight was not included in that velocity estimation because I had many a day that I spent 4 hours just in code review suggesting changes and at times felt like I was programming by dictation. Of the 8 or 9 devs (4 at a time) that we had on our offshore team over 6 months, 1 was legit good (wrote bug-free code that was well tested and whose PR feedback was largely limited to stylistic types of concerns). 1 was good with an asterisk (could complete features with little oversight as long as they were already stubbed and was great at fixing bugs). The rest... kayakyakr fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 16:50
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Munkeymon posted:Prioritize #5, then balance #1 and #4 as best you can. The hiring manager looking at a GitHub profile is much less likely than them appreciating soft skills, so any other time you feel you have should go into #3 and only work on #2 if you can justify it under self-care. Also report your boss to HR and if you are retaliated against publicly name and shame. HR is not there to protect you, but you're already worried you're gonna get fired because of this and given what's going on in the world right now they may actually make the right choice rather than protecting the racist and dealing with the blowback if it comes out publicly.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:57
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Thanks for the responses everyone!bob dobbs is dead posted:your resume is a marketing document and the interview is a sales process I believe that I understand the role of the resume and interview but am not executing properly (obviously, as I do not have a new job). I'm checking several job boards on a daily basis (manually and with search alerts.). I've also been poking the few professional contacts I have but this has not been as fruitful as I hoped and lesson learned to do a better job of networking. I have a handful of employer profiles that I'm targeting, so I'm not sending applications without a strategy but I try to avoid being rigid. I could probably stand to send more applications, right now it's 3 a day on average. Munkeymon posted:Prioritize #5, then balance #1 and #4 as best you can. The hiring manager looking at a GitHub profile is much less likely than them appreciating soft skills, so any other time you feel you have should go into #3 and only work on #2 if you can justify it under self-care. This tracks to me as it's roughly the order I've proceeded in. To clarify, I have updated and revised my resume to the best of my ability in addition to showing it to others (and naturally getting conflicting advice), but I'm never fully satisfied with it. Jose Valasquez posted:Also report your boss to HR and if you are retaliated against publicly name and shame. HR is not there to protect you, but you're already worried you're gonna get fired because of this and given what's going on in the world right now they may actually make the right choice rather than protecting the racist and dealing with the blowback if it comes out publicly. I did in fact do this, and they released a general company wide statement maintaining a commitment to a diverse and accepting work environment, stance against prejudice, etc in line with current events. I think that's good. But the damage has been done; the relationship is toast, there's been no acknowledgement from my boss and I shouldn't be staying here anyway. But at least there's a possible trail, as you say, if there is a retaliation.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:47
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Now's a bad time to be looking. Keep sending out those applications. Prioritize what you're interested in but broaden your search.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:49
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I would also add a #6: research companies with the goal of finding one without the problems of your current job. Catch up with former coworkers and ask current coworkers about good jobs and managers they've had.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:04
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vonnegutt posted:I would also add a #6: research companies with the goal of finding one without the problems of your current job. Catch up with former coworkers and ask current coworkers about good jobs and managers they've had. I'd like to emphasize this as well. A targeted job search among companies that you find interesting and have (as best as you can tell) a good company and engineering culture may lead to better results than the ol' spray and pray method. A few well-tailored resumes and interviews where you can demonstrate that you know what the company is about, why you're interested/excited about them, and what relevant skills you think you can bring to the team can shine through in an interview and help tip the committee in your favor.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:12
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but quantity also has a quality of its own. make a quota, hit the quota
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Jun 9, 2020 18:21
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Sleng Teng posted:4. Relating to 3, I feel that I am falling behind my peers with equivalent calendar experience. Every day feels like some sort of degradation. I make attempts at catching up in my spare time but it does not seem enough when 40 (but really 60) hours a week feel like wasted time. I feel like I forget more than I maintain or would learn at another company that may have some semblance of a software development practice. But you have 2 years of experience as a data scientist to put on your resume and that’s enough to get you a new data scientist job. Some resumé coaching and possibly interview coaching could be useful. But if you can talk shop for 30-60 minutes and can do some regressions/clustering/whatever in a takehome you’ll probably be okay.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:00
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Guinness posted:A few well-tailored resumes and interviews where you can demonstrate that you know what the company is about, why you're interested/excited about them, and what relevant skills you think you can bring to the team can shine through in an interview and help tip the committee in your favor. Also, you always want to be thinking in terms of your career, not just your next job. Having a dream job or technology to work on and working towards it is a lot more satisfying than taking whatever code-monkey path your next manager gives you.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:55
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I'd like to stress again my gratitude for your responses. I'll definitely work on: - Taking another look at my resume - Sticking to a quota - Balancing between long term goals/interests and broadening search - Managing my expectations!
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Jun 10, 2020 12:11
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kayakyakr posted:You're reading waaaaaaay too much into this post. I'm very glad to hear that. I'm quite sensitive to certain language because I generally hear the same terms used by the same kind of people (the kind I was trying to help you avoid becoming), and because as I pointed out, that kind of language is insidious. If you spend a lot of your time translating between business and engineering language, that's extremely helpful to the engineers and the lack of someone who can do it is always felt.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:30
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I once pointed to a project manager I was working with, in a half-joking way, that I preferred if he referred to me as a person, a co-worker, an engineer, a programmer or anything else than a resource. He seemed completely perplexed, didn't show any sign of understanding what I was on about. I haven't pushed the issue often since, but I always make a point of it in document reviews or any time I encounter the r-word in official company language.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:04
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My boss recently said we might be getting more “resources” soon and for me to think of how we could use “more resources” on the things I work on and it took me a reeeeally long time to realize he meant adding people to the team. Then I felt gross.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:18
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I don't find "resource" to be offensive. To me it just means the person is helpful. I avoid using it only because I know so many others dislike it.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:25
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Resources is at least better than human capital, as I have heard it termed before. I 1000% prefer to be referred to as neither of those though
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Jun 10, 2020 19:37
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tbh when I hear resources I actually hear "$$$$"
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Jun 10, 2020 20:12
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taqueso posted:tbh when I hear resources I actually hear "$$$$" so does your boss
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Jun 10, 2020 20:21
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how about assets?
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Jun 10, 2020 20:37
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kayakyakr posted:how about assets? too many devs are liabilities
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Jun 10, 2020 20:39
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Jun 10, 2020 20:41
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y'all the department and relevant professional certification is named "human resources" turning your nose up with the manager closest to you using it ain't gonna move the needle
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Jun 10, 2020 21:57
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Guinness posted:too many devs are liabilities 
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Jun 10, 2020 21:58
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JawnV6 posted:y'all the department and relevant professional certification is named "human resources" turning your nose up with the manager closest to you using it ain't gonna move the needle It is all you can do and maybe if it gets them to realize it they can start turning their noses up at others adjacent and above them as well.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:42
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JawnV6 posted:y'all the department and relevant professional certification is named "human resources" turning your nose up with the manager closest to you using it ain't gonna move the needle A lot of tech companies that I've talked to/worked with have rebranded it as 'People' or 'Talent'. Which feels gross but anything HR related feels gross to me
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Jun 10, 2020 22:52
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it's just a euphemism treadmill. slaves became serfs, serfs became laborers, laborers became employees, employees became resources. in fifty years there will be a bunch of articles that gasp at the fact that indigo salute our customers service dan were ever referred to by the diminutive term "resources" while celebrating a new milestone - the world's first quadrillionaire.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:12
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The word "resources" is a window into the soulless nature of the corporate world
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Jun 10, 2020 23:13
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I used to be "headcount" before I became a "resource", I'm not sure which is better.
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Jun 11, 2020 02:35
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Well at least headcount implies you are an embodied entity with a head.
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Jun 11, 2020 06:30
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As opposed to your team having a bodycount, which says something totally different.
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Jun 11, 2020 07:46
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Ideally, you can split those between two parallel jobs.
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Jun 11, 2020 12:13
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Paolomania posted:Well at least headcount implies you are an embodied entity with a head. It's also how you refer to the number of cattle in an area.
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Jun 11, 2020 13:38
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Nothing wrong the cattle
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Jun 11, 2020 15:55
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Jabor posted:As opposed to your team having a bodycount, which says something totally different. I wonder where you would put your software engineering KDR on your resume. Skills, work experience, or objective?
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Jun 11, 2020 16:05
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