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I gave my client's team lead all the reasons why I didn't want to become a permie and now he's talking privately about becoming a contractor himself. Oops.
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Nov 25, 2017 18:28
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Though it doesn't change the fact that HR works for the company, not for you. Definitely do not go to HR with any problems you may have, either. My sister went to HR a few months back to discuss a toxic situation she had with her manager - interestingly, her manager was a friend of hers from either college or HS and they were excited to work together. Her manager couldn't manage (or deal with her superiors) and went batshit not being able to handle her own job made increasingly insane demands of her time and even demanded she be available during her vacation (my sister, her husband and me and some family all went away together) and she spent a good bit of it working. About a week or so before we went on vacation she talked to HR as a last resort of not being able to deal with her toxic situation. The day she gets back from vacation she was fired. This happened a couple months ago and I just found out about it at Thanksgiving dinner. I immediately screamed that's retaliation, but how could she prove it. gently caress HR. In all honesty, it seems that these days you're better at lawyering up first before going to HR. geeves fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 19:32
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I wouldn't say blanket "don't go to HR". I just wouldn't assume by default that they'll help you if you have a complaint. Maybe not lawyer up, but definitely preserve documentation, ideally on non-corporate storage in case your account gets locked out.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:54
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Yeah- I feel like in my situation if I go to HR, regardless of other people having complained, it’s just not “hostile” enough and merely toxic.. which gives my boss the option of retaliatory behavior with very little that HR can actually do to him. They acted in other cases because it was easy for other teammates to switch and avoid further conflict but this is a company we’re talking about. When I do go to HR, I would explicitly mention in writing that my hesitations to go were because I feared retaliatory behavior, but that wouldn’t do much in my opinion.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:15
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It’s really sad that it may be plausibly ok advice to lawyer up before you talk to your own drat HR about things being toxic at work. I’m just happy enough that I don’t have any problem like that where I am and that those fired typically are for a pretty good reason.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:56
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necrobobsledder posted:It’s really sad that it may be plausibly ok advice to lawyer up before you talk to your own drat HR about things being toxic at work. I’m just happy enough that I don’t have any problem like that where I am and that those fired typically are for a pretty good reason. It's just the nature of work culture. Superiors who control employment status will have the power to terminate their subordinates at many companies and for this reason a lot of people just avoid going to HR for fear of retaliation, leaving things in a toxic state. I would be extremely surprised if me going to HR does anything except my boss realizing it was me and becoming even more hostile to me.
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Nov 27, 2017 02:31
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Good Will Hrunting posted:It's just the nature of work culture. It's the nature of non-unionized work - maybe. I've been reading biographies of Carnegie and Frick and I'm actively rooting for his workers to assassinate Frick for better pay.
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Nov 27, 2017 03:33
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Good Will Hrunting posted:It's just the nature of work culture. Superiors who control employment status will have the power to terminate their subordinates at many companies and for this reason a lot of people just avoid going to HR for fear of retaliation, leaving things in a toxic state. I would be extremely surprised if me going to HR does anything except my boss realizing it was me and becoming even more hostile to me. But if your situation is such that your manager can fire you with impunity after a complaint to HR, then I would argue that your manager isn't really the problem, it's the company, and perhaps you should leave. There are companies that don't have toxic cultures and HR departments; if you're in a lovely situation with a manager the answer is almost certainly not to just suck it up and be quiet, but rather to either consult HR or to seek alternative employment, or both.
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Nov 27, 2017 03:54
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Steve French posted:But if your situation is such that your manager can fire you with impunity after a complaint to HR, then I would argue that your manager isn't really the problem, it's the company, and perhaps you should leave. There are companies that don't have toxic cultures and HR departments; if you're in a lovely situation with a manager the answer is almost certainly not to just suck it up and be quiet, but rather to either consult HR or to seek alternative employment, or both. I absolutely plan on doing both, for sure. I’m just trying to time it properly with respect to giving my team lead a chance to see what’s going on and make a difference and getting my $10k or so bonus paid out first.
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Nov 27, 2017 04:10
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I absolutely plan on doing both, for sure. I’m just trying to time it properly with respect to giving my team lead a chance to see what’s going on and make a difference and getting my $10k or so bonus paid out first. I think what most people are trying to implore you to do is go to HR before you leave. It is definitely wise to time it properly, especially considering a 10k bonus. Start looking for work now though, every day is helpful on that task.
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Nov 27, 2017 07:08
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I would be extremely surprised if me going to HR does anything except my boss realizing it was me and becoming even more hostile to me. That's when you go back to HR and let them know you're retaining a lawyer who knows what the term "constructive dismissal" means.
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Nov 27, 2017 09:20
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fantastic in plastic posted:That's when you go back to HR and let them know you're retaining a lawyer who knows what the term "constructive dismissal" means. This, but it largely depends on having HR competent to understand what that means.
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Nov 27, 2017 20:58
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Skandranon posted:I think what most people are trying to implore you to do is go to HR before you leave. It is definitely wise to time it properly, especially considering a 10k bonus. Start looking for work now though, every day is helpful on that task. I spoke at great lengths with the Senior engineer on my team and he feels even more strongly than I do. The CEO of Parent Company is in their office this week and seems incredibly serious about our delivery date with way higher expectations for the product than we're even going to come close to meeting. Teammate and I decided we wanted to raise concerns as soon as possible instead of potentially falling into the trap of being blamed by our boss, which we both totally agreed he was likely to do. We're formulating a plan of how to do such smartly and as a unit instead of individually.
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Nov 27, 2017 22:14
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Nice. Best of luck to you.
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Nov 28, 2017 05:06
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geeves posted:It's the nature of non-unionized work - maybe. I've been reading biographies of Carnegie and Frick and I'm actively rooting for his workers to assassinate Frick for better pay. If you work in a union, HR is even more obviously the enemy, because they are the ones sitting across the table from your union rep who is defending you.
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Nov 28, 2017 14:00
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smackfu posted:If you work in a union, HR is even more obviously the enemy, because they are the ones sitting across the table from your union rep who is defending you. How is this different than in a union of size one?
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Nov 28, 2017 14:11
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leper khan posted:How is this different than in a union of size one? You don’t have to pay a lawyer to represent you?
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Nov 28, 2017 14:28
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smackfu posted:You don’t have to pay a lawyer to represent you? I have a right to represent myself. 
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Nov 28, 2017 14:39
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Nice. Best of luck to you. Thanks. We've constructed a thorough shared Google document (via person emails of course) with everything we've been documenting and are going to sync outside hours to decide how to communicate it with higher ups. Additionally, on a PR today another lead who depends on my team is frustrated with my boss. It's pretty much everyone with some sort of stake in his work or under him at this point but his words vs. all of ours. I reached out to him since I'm blocked as well by he issue he commented on in his review, and brought up to him how my team had been dealing with that kind of thing all year and he said he sees it and is looking into what he can do since they're feeling the impact as well now.
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Nov 28, 2017 19:27
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Not sure if this is the right thread for resume questions, but I've got a formatting question that I could use some input on. Basically I've been working for the same place for about 6 years. In there though I've had some breaks: I worked for a year as a co-op then took 6 months off for classes, then I was working there part time and going to school part time for a year, taking off 6 months to finish. After graduating I worked there full time for a few years, got laid off, came back a year later as a contractor. Now I'm looking for a new job and I'm wondering how explicit I should be about the timeline. I'll make a note of the recent year off, but is there any point to doing a detailed accounting of the earlier gaps or can I just say "2012 - co-op student" or something similar.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:11
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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^^ Has your title been the same the whole time?
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Nov 29, 2017 01:27
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No, but it also didn't change cleanly with the breaks. Which I guess complicates things further.
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Nov 29, 2017 01:52
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misguided rage posted:Not sure if this is the right thread for resume questions, but I've got a formatting question that I could use some input on. I don't think there's any need to be explicit, as long as you can truthfully say you were employed by them during 2012. I'd just list 2012 - present, or whatever the case may be. e: My mind didn't immediately parse that there was a year break, so 2012-X, X-present.
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Nov 29, 2017 08:51
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I'd agree that unless you're applying for security clearance you're not going to need to cover small breaks or breaks which are par for the course. As long as you say that you did the job while studying then that pretty much covers taking time off for classes. You've had a steady job for 4 years so your employability is solid even for people who care about that sort of thing. Even the most bureaucratic places I've applied for haven't wanted more than 3 year's worth on their dumb HR forms.
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Nov 29, 2017 10:17
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misguided rage posted:Not sure if this is the right thread for resume questions, but I've got a formatting question that I could use some input on. Incase this happens again or if anyone reads this winds in this situation, a lot of time you can talk with HR about it and see if you can keep your original hire date in return to coming back. This is important for seniority/vacation policies and is a CYA to just say 2012 - present <LAST TITLE HERE> on Resumes. I know that a lot of big companies have policies in favor of this, EA had one where you could be gone for the same number of months you were at the company and keep your start date. I left WB for a year and came back to my same start date. (That one was critical because they had some killer 10 year benefits.)
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Nov 29, 2017 15:08
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I currently do support for a specialized hosting company. My professional background is web development, but our stuff is complex enough that it requires a support team composed of competent web programmers and sysadmins. I currently spend most of my time helping our biggest customers with their configs and explaining how our services work, and my boss' boss has suggested moving me into a "sales engineer" role. This is a good career move, right? I enjoy talking to customers and would probably also enjoy up-selling them. Does anybody else here do this type of work? How has it been?
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Dec 1, 2017 17:36
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What is Sales Engineer? I’ve never worked with one.
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Dec 1, 2017 18:05
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Pre-sales, you work with clients to demonstrate that your company's software can be adapted to perform the functions required by the client. Post-sales being taking the client's full spec and turning into a production quality thing.
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Dec 1, 2017 18:09
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Answer technical questions before they sign the contract, provide the technical details of the sales pitch that the sales staff isn't qualified to describe, run demos, then help them get configured after they make the purchase. May include incentive pay for helping to sell larger products. I'm already doing the post-signup part of this job, but we're reorganizing the workflow so the sales engineers handle the whole thing from initial contact to launching their application. They want me for this role, I think, because I have a decent grasp of the technology and a stronger capability (or desire) for things like leading customer-facing conference calls than the other support staff. It mostly feels like getting paid to do softwarechat, so...yeah, I guess I do want this job.
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Dec 1, 2017 18:16
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Are you going to be salary-only or is there a commission component?
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Dec 1, 2017 18:32
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edit: nm
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Dec 1, 2017 18:33
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JawnV6 posted:Are you going to be salary-only or is there a commission component? There's some nebulous bonus for upsells, but it's not worked out yet. We haven't talked money at all yet.
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Dec 1, 2017 18:41
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rt4 posted:Answer technical questions before they sign the contract, provide the technical details of the sales pitch that the sales staff isn't qualified to describe, run demos, then help them get configured after they make the purchase. May include incentive pay for helping to sell larger products. The guys I worked with who did this ended up doing a lot of traveling and trade-show after parties. They seemed to enjoy it.
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Dec 1, 2017 18:57
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Is sales engineer the person responsible for making sure the regular sales guy doesn’t overpromise?
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Dec 1, 2017 19:06
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lifg posted:Is sales engineer the person responsible for making sure the regular sales guy doesn’t overpromise? Yeah, that's part of it. No lying allowed!
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Dec 1, 2017 19:14
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rt4 posted:It mostly feels like getting paid to do softwarechat, so...yeah, I guess I do want this job. Like most things, Sales Engineer can be good or bad depending on the company and your goals. In my (limited) experience filling that role at a F500 for a bit: PROS -Nice commission checks (you'll make more than a developer, if not, don't do it) -All the standard benefits of sales jobs (steak dinners, free booze/partying) -Get out of the basement developers live in and have much more visibility in the company -Get better at being a people-person -Sprint/relax cadence: you'll prep for a 11AM presentation, and when it's over at 2, go to home/golf course/booze (no need to fill a seat for 8hr) CONS -You'll start to diverge from the 'true' engineering team, and they may start to view you as an adversary -Constantly having to be the voice of reason to the pure-sales guy, while delicately trying not to kill his deals (pre-sales) -Lose some technical skills -Travel -If you're introverted, it can be exhausting some days depending on how hard they put you with customers/prospects -If largely commission-based, have to deal with irregular income. For what it's worth, I'm back as a SSE/Architect. I like the portability being an individual technical contributor gives me: I can bounce to a new company anytime I want. I felt as a Sales Engineer that I was starting to specialize a bit too much at one company, and tie myself to them.
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Dec 1, 2017 21:06
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One of the best parts about my latest job is that the main sales guy is a sales engineer who was deeply involved in developing features for all of the stuff he sells. No chance he doesn't know what our products can't do.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:26
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My coworker and I have been sitting on the document of our team's problems for about 3-4 days trying to decide what to do with it. Today, manager commented on the POC JIRA ticket I'm working on, directly below a detailed description of my literal working solution that's ready to test on prod once the schema is finalized (a schema he's creating that he has said would have been ready 2 weeks ago - it's not and I'm still working with a dummy schema and data that is invalid that I've had to clean like 3 times because it was generated between schemas - by him of course) with my literal solution that he tried to paint as his own, not even acknowledging my post at all. So, obviously salty as heck I circled back on this with my coworker about these happenings this morning. He had a very different tone. Apparently he found out that our manager is still there because he has connections (and was directly brought on by) the CEO/Founder of the company and every time someone mentions our team's issues, the CEO punts and avoids the situation. Time to take the checks and look for a new job.
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Dec 3, 2017 18:57
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I dunno. The document might be the only thing that breaks through, if nothing else does. If you’re pulling out, got at least one solid reference from a coworker, and backup from others that the manager is ruining things, your narrative, and thus future prospects, don’t sound too bad. With that said, before you leave, make sure to get your coworkers to give you LinkedIn recommendations.
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Dec 3, 2017 19:17
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I’m a fan of at least trying to make a change. It’d be a valuable learning experience seeing how power works. Also, it’s Sunday. Why are you working on a Sunday at a job you hate?
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Dec 3, 2017 21:03
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