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strange posted:Is there any truth to the idea that you have to consult to make the big bucks in the UK? *eyes American salaries wistfully* Yeah, I mean as I say I've not seen what pay is like at the googles and such in London but certainly that's the route taken by seniors in smaller companies. Its dependent on demand of course but I've been contracting without a break for nearly 5 years now. Pollyanna posted:That high - I usually hear 40k~50k for London, but I may be wrong. It used to be (circa 2012) that 50k was considered high-mid/low-senior money, but things have stretched a little presumably as London house prices have skyrocketed. strange posted:Rent is 950 - 1100 for a 2 bed flat. 700-1000 for 1. I had a 2 bed apartment for £2k in zone 5 and one for £2,400 in zone 1. I now own a 5 bed detached house on HS1 with a 1k mortgage and it's the same door to door as my zone 5 place was.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:11
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Jaded Burnout posted:It used to be (circa 2012) that 50k was considered high-mid/low-senior money, but things have stretched a little presumably as London house prices have skyrocketed. Its going to be interesting to see what happens w/ Brexit... if fintech / financial moves out of London, there will probably be a profound impact on real estate + cost of living
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Feb 28, 2018 20:20
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Pixelboy posted:Its going to be interesting to see what happens w/ Brexit... if fintech / financial moves out of London, there will probably be a profound impact on real estate + cost of living Along with a removal of the EU as a hiring pool. It will be, as they say, interesting times.
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Feb 28, 2018 20:37
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Jaded Burnout posted:Along with a removal of the EU as a hiring pool. It will be, as they say, interesting times. I think a lot of tech companies are sitting and waiting thinking, "wait, they weren't serious about this were they?" So, what's the new hotness? Frankfurt? Munich? Sure as hell no place in France. 
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Feb 28, 2018 20:44
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Pixelboy posted:So, what's the new hotness? Frankfurt? Munich? Sure as hell no place in France. It was Berlin for a time, but friends of mine there aren't having the best time. Not that it matters too much if you don't have a backup passport.
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Feb 28, 2018 20:58
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yeah, I mean as I say I've not seen what pay is like at the googles and such in London but certainly that's the route taken by seniors in smaller companies. Facebook pays competitively with the local market in the UK, meaning they don't pay as much as they do in the US. The pay scale is the same across MPK, NYC, and SEA, so accounting for tax, working in Seattle pays the best.
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Mar 1, 2018 04:02
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yeah, I mean as I say I've not seen what pay is like at the googles and such in London but certainly that's the route taken by seniors in smaller companies. I've heard rumors that lots of people in the London office complain the pay is really bad there, relatively speaking. It also might just be the market in London is really bad on pay in general though, so top of market London is aggressively mediocre for NYC and SF.
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Mar 1, 2018 04:17
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Pixelboy posted:So, what's the new hotness? Frankfurt? Munich? Sure as hell no place in France. Dublin I think?
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Mar 1, 2018 05:31
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Naar posted:In my (Manchester-based) experience, yes. The highest permie salary I've seen here was ~£90k and typically technical lead-type roles will be ~£70 - 80k, while as a contractor I can get more than that without too much trouble. I like this lead into a position, then cheap out at £70k in London quote:Major client with a £18 billion turnover has an urgent opportunity for a Cutting edge / New Technology Specialist / Emerging Technology Architect with solid expertise in both Software & Infrastructure to work closely with the global teams to propose, create and implement cutting edge, innovative high-quality solutions. Although it does read on second pass to be a glorified project manager? https://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/cutting-edge-new-technology-specialist/34351111
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Mar 1, 2018 06:13
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To be fair, you need to add 10 - 20% bonus, pension contributions, etc.
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Mar 1, 2018 07:46
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mrmcd posted:I've heard rumors that lots of people in the London office complain the pay is really bad there, relatively speaking. It also might just be the market in London is really bad on pay in general though, so top of market London is aggressively mediocre for NYC and SF. AIUI, london pay sucks, zurich pay is on par with mtv, munich pay is in between
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Mar 1, 2018 08:12
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Pixelboy posted:I think a lot of tech companies are sitting and waiting thinking, "wait, they weren't serious about this were they?" Yeah, this whole thing is turning into a massive shitshow for the UK and the EU has to gain that a super hard brexit will scare the poo poo out of other countries considering departure. My understanding is that Dublin will be the English speaking center, Frankfurt the EU fintech and Brussels govt of course. But those gaining most will be Germany and Ireland, but that is an uneducated guess.
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Mar 1, 2018 08:42
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I spent the last four days writing design docs and filing 17 bugs to implement the design in the docs. Now I'm actually "writing code" and it's really just updating some bookkeeping that's in code form because that's what we need to unblock those 17 bugs. I gather this is much of what being a TL is like. That and talking to people.
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Mar 1, 2018 23:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I gather this is much of what being a TL is like. That and talking to people. A bit more self loathing and drinking, but yeah
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Mar 2, 2018 00:56
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:
Sounds like a great opportunity to upgrade your workstation.
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Mar 2, 2018 01:11
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TL = thought leader right
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Mar 2, 2018 01:12
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Good Will Hrunting posted:TL = thought leader right Well it sure as hell doesn't stand for commit leader. :-/
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Mar 2, 2018 01:27
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Good Will Hrunting posted:TL = thought leader right
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Mar 2, 2018 03:12
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mrmcd posted:Well it sure as hell doesn't stand for commit leader. :-/ I still write code! sometimes 
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Mar 2, 2018 04:06
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apseudonym posted:I still write code! It's cool because you unlock a completely new level of imposter syndrome. "I'm not a manager, I just never write actual code like one. Oh god they made me TL because I'm the old gramps who's losing his edge.. didn't they? No one actually knows what leadership is... Ohgodohgodohgod."
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Mar 2, 2018 04:19
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mrmcd posted:It's cool because you unlock a completely new level of imposter syndrome. "I'm not a manager, I just never write actual code like one. Oh god they made me TL because I'm the old gramps who's losing his edge.. didn't they? No one actually knows what leadership is... Ohgodohgodohgod." I know exactly why they made me a manager, because my old boss didn't want to manage anymore and "you're good at it and everyone volunteered you, good luck". Assholes, all of them.
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Mar 2, 2018 04:23
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apseudonym posted:I know exactly why they made me a manager, because my old boss didn't want to manage anymore and "you're good at it and everyone volunteered you, good luck". They asked my team's L6 if he wanted to be a TL and he ran away screaming. So my manager said I should do it and now the L6 goes to senior IC retreats with free wine and I stare at bug trackers until my eyes bleed.
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Mar 2, 2018 04:36
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Also since we're on the topic of leadership: What is the best way to
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Mar 2, 2018 04:43
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mrmcd posted:They asked my team's L6 if he wanted to be a TL and he ran away screaming. So my manager said I should do it and now the L6 goes to senior IC retreats with free wine and I stare at bug trackers until my eyes bleed. When I got L5 my manager said "bad news about not being allowed to manage...". mrmcd posted:Also since we're on the topic of leadership: What is the best way to Ignore bugs in the component till someone takes it off your hands? I think that's the Google way.
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Mar 2, 2018 04:47
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:though at your workplace you might be considered a thot leader maybe i'll apply for an... internal transfer... 
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Mar 2, 2018 06:07
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Good Will Hrunting posted:maybe i'll apply for an... internal transfer... Don't forget to clear it with HR first. Consent's important.
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Mar 2, 2018 20:36
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fantastic in plastic posted:Don't forget to clear it with HR first. Consent's important. of course  How do I become less timid and more effective at CRs? I have ideas and thoughts for things (both structural and potential edge cases, etc) but I'm not sure whether they'd work or if they're real issues and it seems like a lot of overhead for me to check out someone else's branch and do possibly redundant refactoring, testing, design and other stuff. Some of it probably stems from a lack of any technical/spec/scope discussion at this point but we're trying to change that. Basically, as a mid-level engineer on a team with 1 other mid-level and a team lead, what should I be reviewing versus what should the lead be looking for? I always imagined PR reviews were like - mostly "extract this to a helper" or "this may fit better here" but not to review and check if, well, things may not work in all edge cases? Good Will Hrunting fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 20:43
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Basically, as a mid-level engineer on a team with 1 other mid-level and a team lead, what should I be reviewing versus what should the lead be looking for? I always imagined PR reviews were like - mostly "extract this to a helper" or "this may fit better here" but not to review and check if, well, things may not work in all edge cases? When in doubt, phrase your concerns as questions. "What happens if we hit this edge case?" Ideally also you have tests, and the cultural support to say "this needs to have new tests covering the new behavior." If you don't have that kind of support, then yeah, you're looking more at "patch their code into a clean client, hit the edge case you were worried about, and go and say "I tried X with your code and Y happened, could you fix that please?""
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Mar 2, 2018 21:38
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It depends on your team and your team's attitude to code review, unfortunately. Fortunately, I've seen teams where one member's code review positively influenced others' approach to review. It took a while, but I think most people are receptive to genuinely trying-to-be-helpful feedback. First and foremost, assume the best. Assume the code writer understood the edge cases, architected the code in that specific way for good reasons, tested things thoroughly, etc. If you start from that attitude, it really helps to build trust. Then if you see a potential problem you can alert them. I find this shortcuts a lot of code-preference comments, which are mostly unhelpful. If their code is just a mess, don't comment all over it, try to meet with them in private and pair with them on it. A million little comments is almost as unhelpful as none. As for code tidying (breaking things into smaller functions, extracting to a helper, etc), go nuts. I almost never have a problem with people pointing out stuff like this - it takes almost no time to fix and often I'm so close to the problem I don't see how something could be unreadable. As for testing to make sure there's basic functionality, again, depends on your team. I usually have an idea how well certain team members review their own stuff. There's the backend guru who writes gorgeous, elegant queries but never checks to make sure the front end works. There's the front end designer who can barely be trusted to add a field to an API correctly, but whose front end work never needs review. There's the solid full-stack guys who still need the backend guru to make sure they aren't overloading the server, and should probably throw a screenshot in the direction of the designer. I give each of them their own "level" of review, since it's nearly always easier to get them to fix it than it is to file a bug report later. It's annoying to manually test stuff or write your own tests for someone else's work, but it's less annoying than a 3am page, so I try to keep that in mind when I"m stuck poking things.
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Mar 2, 2018 21:50
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Thanks for the advice, folks. In other news my new team lead has been going to bat for us towards my old jackoff boss on numerous occasions. It rules except I slipped and typed "YAS KWEEN DRAAAG HIM" into our common chat the other day.
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Mar 3, 2018 01:33
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Thanks for the advice, folks. lol
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Mar 3, 2018 13:10
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Re: UK salarychat, I’m on ~85k in Edinburgh, 11 years experience. Awful compared to USA, but for here it’s okay.
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Mar 3, 2018 18:25
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mrmcd posted:Also since we're on the topic of leadership: What is the best way to Possible “Best” solutions: - completely overhaul perf - wait for a reorg to make the problem go away - pass it off as a great 20% project until some other team’s fingerprints are all over the code
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Mar 3, 2018 21:04
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I have 4 years of experience as a web developer (react, angular, java, php ( ), sql) and am sick of working in non-tech companies. I'm tired of clueless, non-technical leaders, and am tired of working in organizations that don't have a strong tech culture. I single handedly implemented many sorely needed features in our platform at work (including unit testing, code coverage reports, CI, refactoring for horizontal scaling, etc) and no one seems to give a poo poo. I continually run into big fish little pond problems. I just had a sit down with leadership to learn about my below inflation raise, and was told that I am talented but impatient, and that I should focus more on the business and less on my technical skills, and that I am already paid above market and should be happy since I sit next to other people that are underpaid. The decision makers care more about revenue impact and less about developer velocity, improved tooling, mature tech and scalability.I don't really even care about compensation at this point, I just want to work with peers and mentors and people that are passionate and talented, and work for leaders who "get it". I have an unrelated state school bachelor's degree, and no real online presence. I'm comfortable with CTCI style whiteboarding interviews and am comfortable communicating like a normal person with tech and nontechnical audiences. I was day dreaming about applying to the big 4 but am not really familiar with how onboarding would even work in those orgs for non internship/fresh out of college hiring pipelines. I'm childless in Austin and have no problems relocating to Seattle or the bay area. Is getting in somewhere like Google/MAGA skinnerbox russiabook/micro$oft in the cards at this point in my career or did I miss my chance? Is it even feasible given a relatively unimpressive resume? Should I just attend more meetups and meet more people in smaller companies in my area that aren't working under layers of bean counters and mbas looking to optimize cost centers? biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Mar 3, 2018 |
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Mar 3, 2018 22:41
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Sinten posted:I have 4 years of experience as a web developer (react, angular, java, php ( You didn't miss your chance for a job at a major tech company, but you may need more than generic web dev experience to manufacture yourself an opportunity.
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Mar 3, 2018 22:52
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I started at Google in my mid-30's with my immediately prior experience having been 8 years in academia. You haven't missed out on poo poo. Go for it.
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Mar 3, 2018 22:53
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Sinten posted:I have an unrelated state school bachelor's degree, and no real online presence. I'm comfortable with CTCI style whiteboarding interviews and am comfortable communicating like a normal person with tech and nontechnical audiences. I was day dreaming about applying to the big 4 but am not really familiar with how onboarding would even work in those orgs for non internship/fresh out of college hiring pipelines. I'm childless in Austin and have no problems relocating to Seattle or the bay area. Is getting in somewhere like Google/MAGA skinnerbox russiabook/micro$oft in the cards at this point in my career or did I miss my chance? Is it even feasible given a relatively unimpressive resume? Should I just attend more meetups and meet more people in smaller companies in my area that aren't working under layers of bean counters and mbas looking to optimize cost centers? Yes. No one cares if you went to TOP TEN CS SCHOOL once you have real work experience and can pass the interviews. Just apply online, or PM any of the BigTechCo employees in this thread for a referral. Even if you don't end up enjoying working for a huge corporation, a 2-3 year stint will be invaluable in teaching you tons of things and opening tons of doors for future opportunities. Btw Google has decent sized eng office in Austin, plus pretty big eng offices in NYC and Seattle.
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Mar 3, 2018 22:54
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Sinten posted:The decision makers care more about revenue impact and less about developer velocity, improved tooling, mature tech and scalability. I got some bad news for you about every company out there....
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Mar 3, 2018 22:59
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Ralith posted:It sounds like either you aren't doing a great job of expressing the business impact of the process improvements you've made, or the project you're working on genuinely doesn't matter. In the latter case, definitely get out. Probably get out regardless, because there are better opportunities. I've heard that Austin is actually not a bad place for tech, even. I've put together documentation and presented to the leaders the direct impact my work has immediately made and will make in concrete numbers rather than ambiguous qualifiers. Everything has been sunshine and rainbows until it was time to affirm my impact. To be fair, the company as a whole did not perform well last year. Which is out of my leader's control, but is yet another reason to go work somewhere else.
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Mar 3, 2018 23:00
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Sinten posted:To be fair, the company as a whole did not perform well last year. Which is out of my leader's control, but is yet another reason to go work somewhere else.
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Mar 3, 2018 23:15
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