Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«245 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Yesterday I clicked "ignore" on a recruiter connection request and while the page was loading I saw "Hi Koen, I am a recruiter for Goo..."
Not sure how to feel now.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gildiss
Aug 24, 2010

That's downright discourteous. So be it, we'll improvise.


Grimey Drawer

Keetron posted:

Yesterday I clicked "ignore" on a recruiter connection request and while the page was loading I saw "Hi Koen, I am a recruiter for Goo..."
Not sure how to feel now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PbdyJ_ybSI

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Keetron posted:

Yesterday I clicked "ignore" on a recruiter connection request and while the page was loading I saw "Hi Koen, I am a recruiter for Goo..."
Not sure how to feel now.

Google will interview anyone on the planet that has a linked in account.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Keetron posted:

Yesterday I clicked "ignore" on a recruiter connection request and while the page was loading I saw "Hi Koen, I am a recruiter for Goo..."
Not sure how to feel now.

This is how I ended up at Google

mrmcd
Feb 22, 2003



Jose Valasquez posted:

This is how I ended up at Google

Yeah similar for me, although I think it was email maybe? (and then he forgot to email me back for like 3 months because lol sourcers).

Google has an interesting recruiting problem, in that not only do they get a huge flood of unsolicited (and mostly not good) applications on account of being one of the most visible and respected tech companies out there, there are tons of people they do want to hire who never apply either because they are happy where they are, or think "wow I'd never be good enough to get hired there."

I'm not sure an army of temps spamming LinkedIn is a good way to address that, but I'm not in recruiting so...

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.


I need some advice... I've been Sr. Software Engineer for like 10 years, and I am wondering what I need to know/do to get to Software Architect. Is it as simple as being able to design a project and reason about technology choices? If so, I feel more than capable to do this for SOA stuff. Is there more to it than that?

Reason I ask is after getting what amounts to $.80/hr raise and being jerked around about further advancement, I'm contemplating taking another lateral move to a startup to be Sr. Software Engineer. It will have even less upward mobility or it will have LOTS of upward mobility? I dunno... am I stressing about nothing or should I just start applying to architect jobs (which there are precious few of in this market).

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

You should be applying for the jobs with the roles that you want to perform regardless of the title that you currently have. Remember that titles mean very little across the spectrum of employers!

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.


Pillbug

Finster Dexter posted:

I need some advice... I've been Sr. Software Engineer for like 10 years, and I am wondering what I need to know/do to get to Software Architect. Is it as simple as being able to design a project and reason about technology choices? If so, I feel more than capable to do this for SOA stuff. Is there more to it than that?

Reason I ask is after getting what amounts to $.80/hr raise and being jerked around about further advancement, I'm contemplating taking another lateral move to a startup to be Sr. Software Engineer. It will have even less upward mobility or it will have LOTS of upward mobility? I dunno... am I stressing about nothing or should I just start applying to architect jobs (which there are precious few of in this market).

You need the technical skills to basically design and deliver an entire, high-quality product all on your own. You won't have to (that's why you're the architect!), but you need to be able to.

You also start to really need good soft skills.
- You need to be able to communicate your design decisions clearly
- You need to be able to justify your choices
- You need to be able to listen to reason if/when reality starts to drift away from your perfect vision
- Similar to above, you need to know when to put your foot down and insist that the architecture be followed
- You need to be able to have technology discussions with non-technical people while straddling the line between not talking over their heads and not talking down to them (this is harder than it sounds).

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


csammis posted:

You should be applying for the jobs with the roles that you want to perform regardless of the title that you currently have. Remember that titles mean very little across the spectrum of employers!

I'm a "Sofwater Engineer" at my current company, was a "Softwear Engineer" at my last company, but one of the places I interviewed with wanted to give me an "Associate" title because they do Assosicate -> SWE -> SSWE (I turned the job down for other reasons but I probably wouldn't title regress tbh)

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015


dat autocorrect

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Joke's on them.


Iím hardwater. :saddens:

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

csammis posted:

You should be applying for the jobs with the roles that you want to perform regardless of the title that you currently have. Remember that titles mean very little across the spectrum of employers!

Yeah especially if a startup is hiring you as an employee take whatever title you want. There might be some friction if you're trying to make a jump all the way to Director or VP but SSWE to Software Architect should be easy.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



Finster Dexter posted:

I need some advice... I've been Sr. Software Engineer for like 10 years, and I am wondering what I need to know/do to get to Software Architect. Is it as simple as being able to design a project and reason about technology choices? If so, I feel more than capable to do this for SOA stuff. Is there more to it than that?

Reason I ask is after getting what amounts to $.80/hr raise and being jerked around about further advancement, I'm contemplating taking another lateral move to a startup to be Sr. Software Engineer. It will have even less upward mobility or it will have LOTS of upward mobility? I dunno... am I stressing about nothing or should I just start applying to architect jobs (which there are precious few of in this market).

Go for total compensation over title. Thats the only thing that you can compare across companies, how much cash hits the bank.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Technically speaking I'm still not a Senior Software Engineer in title, and I'm making Facebook median pay, but...

...well, look up how much Facebook median pay is.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Pillbug

Pass.

strange
Nov 4, 2010

"Who's making lunch?"
Said James.


So, since my last post about the cool new "Use any technology you like (as long as it's Node)" policy, I'm having to defend my team from the wholesale use of MongoDB. We've entered a cycle where every week or two I have to explain why Mongo is garbage and my team won't be using it. I'm pretty sure at this point the guy making these decisions is a marketing android sent into the present day from 2013 to spread the good word about web-scale.

Oh, and a substantially below inflation % annual pay-rise. Time to GTFO ?

rt4
Feb 19, 2008


Grimey Drawer

strange posted:

Oh, and a substantially below inflation % annual pay-rise. Time to GTFO ?

Yes, sticking around hoping for a real raise is the costliest mistake I've ever made. Better to get started now before you become really bitter about it.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

strange posted:

Oh, and a substantially below inflation % annual pay-rise. Time to GTFO ?

And if you are really bitter, just change your tune about Mongo.

genki
Nov 12, 2003


rt4 posted:

Yes, sticking around hoping for a real raise is the costliest mistake I've ever made. Better to get started now before you become really bitter about it.
Yeah I started a gradual job search process after the promotion process dragged out yet again... well and some differences in management style preferences with current manager. At the very least, can't hurt to get the interviewing experience...

prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007
I can't break free from these walls of Belgian breakfast delight

Skandranon posted:

And if you are really bitter, just change your tune about Mongo.

this is spectacular advice if one really wants to be spiteful. the best way to be the worst person in this situation is to line up some poor schmuck (not you) to take the full responsibility for the switch to Mongo.

Skandranon is always a good poster ITT so I'm going to go see their post history to try to guess why someone hosed with their av.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

prisoner of waffles posted:

this is spectacular advice if one really wants to be spiteful. the best way to be the worst person in this situation is to line up some poor schmuck (not you) to take the full responsibility for the switch to Mongo.

Skandranon is always a good poster ITT so I'm going to go see their post history to try to guess why someone hosed with their av.

Almost certainly some resentful, 10th rate, pinchy communist.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





Skandranon posted:

Almost certainly some resentful, 10th rate, pinchy communist.

I was trying to figure out how that relates to mongo and tbh it still kinda tracks

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


Jaded Burnout posted:

I was trying to figure out how that relates to mongo and tbh it still kinda tracks

yup they're both extremely good things, checks out

strange
Nov 4, 2010

"Who's making lunch?"
Said James.


rt4 posted:

Yes, sticking around hoping for a real raise is the costliest mistake I've ever made. Better to get started now before you become really bitter about it.


genki posted:

Yeah I started a gradual job search process after the promotion process dragged out yet again... well and some differences in management style preferences with current manager. At the very least, can't hurt to get the interviewing experience...

That's a healthy way to look at it. I'll start looking around and getting some interview experience.


Skandranon posted:

And if you are really bitter, just change your tune about Mongo.


prisoner of waffles posted:

this is spectacular advice if one really wants to be spiteful. the best way to be the worst person in this situation is to line up some poor schmuck (not you) to take the full responsibility for the switch to Mongo.

Skandranon is always a good poster ITT so I'm going to go see their post history to try to guess why someone hosed with their av.

Oh god, I couldn't bare to do it to my colleagues. It would be an excellent FU, though.

On a related tangent, I've never heard anything good about Mongo other than these two things: Use it as a cache that you can completely wipe because it's only a matter of time until you end up with inconsistent data, and it's great for beginner tutorials because "look, it's just JSON!!!". Has anyone here had a good experience with it?

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


We used it at my last job to store metadata about clients and ad creatives and the like. It was an easy way for us to store things that multiple teams could be modifying and looking up at once. Whether that was a good idea, well I'll let you be the judge of that. But we didn't have any issues with it from a performance standpoint or anything.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

We use it to store user data with a single index on ID. All things that need to be searched fast are in an elastic database.
Can't say either is slow and the Mongo ease of use is amazing. Scalability is lovely of course but we don't expect over a million users anyway as this entire project is like a pilot for all kinds of things the unit wants to try out.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


I use it to store crap that I don't particularly care about and I need to be fast. That is, I have a normal relational database, with users that have projects and projects have crap and whatnot. Then, sample sensors data that come from devices (a lot of them) i just throw them in a mongo db. If it explodes ... meh, it explodes, I don't give a poo poo about it. The scientists in the company do since they loooove data, but we pull data from there nightly so ... meh, who cares. It is fast, faster than a relational database for large blobs of data .

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





I worked somewhere which dealt with a huge number of documents, and the initial version used mongo as a backend. In a way it makes sense because hey, documents, document database, let's not force them into mysql. But it turned out to be terrible because when you're talking about several thousand people editing documents we need some structure in our lives.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Volguus posted:

It is fast, faster than a relational database for large blobs of data .

Except most relational databases now support native JSON fields that allows them to easily compete with Mongo, but also supply a relational model. There's no reason to use Mongo in TYOOL 2018 unless you are stuck with it because someone jumped on the hype train in 2012. Friends don't let friends Mongo.

prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007
I can't break free from these walls of Belgian breakfast delight

I'm just talking poo poo about it from a place of no real experience.

That said, a couple of years ago it provided no way to perform a single-record read-and-write transaction that didn't involve locking the entire collection? (think of removing the first element in the array document.butt and adding it as the last element of document.fart)

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


Skandranon posted:

Except most relational databases now support native JSON fields that allows them to easily compete with Mongo, but also supply a relational model. There's no reason to use Mongo in TYOOL 2018 unless you are stuck with it because someone jumped on the hype train in 2012. Friends don't let friends Mongo.

That has nothing to do with anything. The advantage of mongo is that it is faster than a low RDS (postgresql) instance in AWS for inserting that many records per second. Why? Because it stores everything in memory (essentially being a memcache), before committing to disk which is why it also has problems with data disappearing. If you don't care about the data (1000 or 900 records is all the same), then why not? It is definitely cheaper than a more powerful RDS instance.

Of course, dont use Mongo as your only database, or use Mongo to store something of any importance, but for what it's good ... it works.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Volguus posted:

That has nothing to do with anything. The advantage of mongo is that it is faster than a low RDS (postgresql) instance in AWS for inserting that many records per second. Why? Because it stores everything in memory (essentially being a memcache), before committing to disk which is why it also has problems with data disappearing. If you don't care about the data (1000 or 900 records is all the same), then why not? It is definitely cheaper than a more powerful RDS instance.

Of course, dont use Mongo as your only database, or use Mongo to store something of any importance, but for what it's good ... it works.

Postgres is free, and Redis is free, and both are far better at what they do than Mongo is at half-assing both.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


Skandranon posted:

Postgres is free, and Redis is free, and both are far better at what they do than Mongo is at half-assing both.

Which is not the discussion. I am talking about how 1+1=2 and you come and say "but her emails". Blind hatred of Mongo has exactly the same value as stupid love of it back back when the only argument was "it's web-scale" without understanding what any of that meant. Know what is good for, learn its weaknesses, see if it's good for you and use it if it is and don't if it's not. There's nothing wrong with either Postgresql nor Redis, and if that's enough for you then by all means, go at it.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Volguus posted:

Which is not the discussion. I am talking about how 1+1=2 and you come and say "but her emails". Blind hatred of Mongo has exactly the same value as stupid love of it back back when the only argument was "it's web-scale" without understanding what any of that meant. Know what is good for, learn its weaknesses, see if it's good for you and use it if it is and don't if it's not. There's nothing wrong with either Postgresql nor Redis, and if that's enough for you then by all means, go at it.

Pretty sure the discussion (which I didn't start) was about how recommending Mongo would be spiteful and tantamount to sabotage, so I think pointing out some of it's flaws is actually relevant. I don't see how that amounts to "blind hatred" and "but her emails" level of tangents.

But you do whatever you need to to sleep at night.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


Skandranon posted:

Pretty sure the discussion (which I didn't start) was about how recommending Mongo would be spiteful and tantamount to sabotage, so I think pointing out some of it's flaws is actually relevant. I don't see how that amounts to "blind hatred" and "but her emails" level of tangents.

But you do whatever you need to to sleep at night.

Oh, so you do not have the slightest clue, just posting for the fun of it. The discussion here was:

strange posted:

On a related tangent, I've never heard anything good about Mongo other than these two things: Use it as a cache that you can completely wipe because it's only a matter of time until you end up with inconsistent data, and it's great for beginner tutorials because "look, it's just JSON!!!". Has anyone here had a good experience with it?

Which I did. I do have a good experience with it. It works perfectly fine for my needs When it will explode, it will work perfectly fine for my needs. That's all there is to it. Recommending Mongo to someone as their main database for whatever application they're doing ... yes, it would be spiteful and tantamount for sabotage, especially if you know that they don't know what they're getting themselves into.
Your post just sound like blind hatred without having the slightest clue what it is that it can and cannot do. Yelling "DONT USE MONGO" from the top of your lungs before the conversation even starts ... wtf?

BurntCornMuffin
Jan 9, 2009

Does anyone know what Lowtax has in his will regarding what happens to this site? Is there an heir to the 10 dollar throne? Or does this site die with the Taxman, leaving us to the cold harsh void of the rest of the Internet until somebody gets their shit together enough to build SA 2.0?

Skandranon posted:

Postgres is free, and Redis is free, and both are far better at what they do than Mongo is at half-assing both.

Postgres I get, but Redis is a key-value store. How would you use that to replace Mongo? Working with the sort of data one would see in a Document store or RDBMS is well outside of its use case.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

Fly on these secondhand wings
Willing to find out
What impossible means
I'll climb through the ladder
On feathers and dreams


BurntCornMuffin posted:

Postgres I get, but Redis is a key-value store. How would you use that to replace Mongo? Working with the sort of data one would see in a Document store or RDBMS is well outside of its use case.

I'm assuming he means the use case of Mongo solely as a K:V store for an id : document as mentioned earlier and not using it for querying beyond that? In that case I... guess I agree with Skinheadragon.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011



Writing is on the wall where I work. This job isn't what it used to be and it's going to get worse before it gets better. I need to get a new job.

I've been working the same job for about 8 years and it's my only real programming job. In my opinion it's not a very "modern" shop so I feel like I have a lot to make up for in terms of my experience and ability. For reference I work as a web developer, primarily in C#. I have no formal education, only work experience.

I basically want to find a job, that I can keep, outside of my current state as quickly as possible. My main choices are Washington and Oregon. I don't have any desire to work in a major company like Amazon or Google, I just like the pacific northwest. I'm not sure where I should start though. Aside from updating my resume, should I be building a portfolio? What kind of work should go in it? Should I be advancing some other skills or will proven experience in C# and Microsoft SQL be sufficient? Are there any special challenges or tricks to seeking work outside of the state I live in? Is that even a viable course of action?

geeves
Sep 16, 2004



So my coworker has pretty much grown his own family tree of old subordinates over the last few months (quick note: 2 have been here for 2.5 years). He's only brought in 4 people over the last three months to interview and pretty much made it clear he was only interested in hiring people he's managed before. He's brought in zero female candidates saying they weren't qualified enough, this is even after I audited their code and resume.

Then he brings in this Skeletor-looking nutsack this week. We actually interviewed this travesty of a human 3 years ago and there were red flags galore. We actually interviewed him for my coworker's position and he couldn't pass a simple code test. It wasn't anything major, we gave him a Fibonacci problem. He sat there for 5 minutes, in complete silence staring at the screen, even after we asked him what he was stuck on, etc. and said, "Let's work on this together and figure it out." Then he just pushed the laptop away and said, "I pass."

This week, I gave him a different problem - still just as simple - and the amount of handholding my boss and I had to do to get him through 15 lines of code was astounding. He has 13+ years of experience. The rest of the interview he sat around like he already had the job. Overall it was a very weird and awkward hour.

It gets better.

Two VPs interviewed him - just quick 15-minute meet and greets - and he told one of them that he had anger issues in the past.

I actually knew this as my coworker and two other members of his tree joked about this guy and his anger issues.

Coworker replied to the VP and said, "Yes, I actually fired him for that in the past because he blew up on somebody. But he's worked on it and is okay now."

Everyone but my coworker was uneasy about this guy, but yet he gets an offer. What the gently caress. I know we've had it rough finding talent in the city, but to slum it like this.

Basically everyone was overruled and the offer went out. gently caress. He has 13 years of experience and is getting an offer as a junior dev.

We're still a small team and we've had a couple of bad employees already over the years (that we got rid of thankfully). Hopefully he won't pass the background check.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

geeves posted:

So my coworker has pretty much grown his own family tree of old subordinates over the last few months (quick note: 2 have been here for 2.5 years). He's only brought in 4 people over the last three months to interview and pretty much made it clear he was only interested in hiring people he's managed before. He's brought in zero female candidates saying they weren't qualified enough, this is even after I audited their code and resume.

Then he brings in this Skeletor-looking nutsack this week. We actually interviewed this travesty of a human 3 years ago and there were red flags galore. We actually interviewed him for my coworker's position and he couldn't pass a simple code test. It wasn't anything major, we gave him a Fibonacci problem. He sat there for 5 minutes, in complete silence staring at the screen, even after we asked him what he was stuck on, etc. and said, "Let's work on this together and figure it out." Then he just pushed the laptop away and said, "I pass."

This week, I gave him a different problem - still just as simple - and the amount of handholding my boss and I had to do to get him through 15 lines of code was astounding. He has 13+ years of experience. The rest of the interview he sat around like he already had the job. Overall it was a very weird and awkward hour.

It gets better.

Two VPs interviewed him - just quick 15-minute meet and greets - and he told one of them that he had anger issues in the past.

I actually knew this as my coworker and two other members of his tree joked about this guy and his anger issues.

Coworker replied to the VP and said, "Yes, I actually fired him for that in the past because he blew up on somebody. But he's worked on it and is okay now."

Everyone but my coworker was uneasy about this guy, but yet he gets an offer. What the gently caress. I know we've had it rough finding talent in the city, but to slum it like this.

Basically everyone was overruled and the offer went out. gently caress. He has 13 years of experience and is getting an offer as a junior dev.

We're still a small team and we've had a couple of bad employees already over the years (that we got rid of thankfully). Hopefully he won't pass the background check.

Ahh, sour, sour empire building. How I haven't missed you.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«245 »