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baquerd posted:Out of curiosity, why do you believe the CTO over your manager? I have a closer relationship with them. We live within walking distance of each other and do a bunch of stuff outside work. The CTO is much calmer and open to change than my manager too, who will resist things once he's made up his mind. You are right in questioning it though, as it could all be management bullshit above my grade in another form. Either way I'm out of it soon! They've also started doing poo poo like promising a new architecture role as a way to keep me, right up to the last possible moment...
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Jun 9, 2018 15:14
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Cancelbot posted:They've also started doing poo poo like promising a new architecture role as a way to keep me, right up to the last possible moment... oh yeah, that's what my company did too. my new job is suspiciously like my old job, and the org chart is exactly the same with no title change or pay change, but i do get to have ideas about distributed systems and send emails to people while doing my exact same old job
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Jun 9, 2018 15:16
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the talent deficit posted:consider that applicants don't owe you poo poo and the second they decide they don't want to work with you all further interaction is just a liability that can only mean bad things for them; either further annoyance with the clueless company who can't take no for an answer or revenge from someone offended you no longer want to continue in the hiring process. the best case for them explaining that your take home is wildly inappropriate is an apology they probably don't need or want I actually had a (very mild) encounter like this a few years ago. I completed the phone screen and passed, but wasn't feeling super-impressed with the company. Then they sent me a take-home assignment that looked like at least 4 hours of work. I told the recruiter that I wasn't feeling it and we could stop the interview process. He said the hiring manager wanted to talk to be about the take-home, and I said "sure" thinking that maybe I could suggest (for the third time) that they read some of my publicly-available code and we talk about that in lieu of a take-home. Instead, the manager just kept telling me that this length of take-home was "completely standard" and that every company was using this hiring method and how did I plan to get a job without doing this basic thing that everyone required? I had to say "I'm going to go now" before he stopped. He wasn't particularly aggressive and didn't try to contact me after that so it wasn't bad and I've mostly had people just say "OK", but I've never gotten a positive result from saying why I'm dropping out of the interview process.
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Jun 9, 2018 16:05
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Mniot posted:I actually had a (very mild) encounter like this a few years ago. I completed the phone screen and passed, but wasn't feeling super-impressed with the company. Then they sent me a take-home assignment that looked like at least 4 hours of work. I told the recruiter that I wasn't feeling it and we could stop the interview process. He said the hiring manager wanted to talk to be about the take-home, and I said "sure" thinking that maybe I could suggest (for the third time) that they read some of my publicly-available code and we talk about that in lieu of a take-home. Ultimately, the vast majority of places will never give you the same, so why bother doing it for them? Feels good to be the one doing the ghosting sometimes.
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Jun 9, 2018 16:28
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Reminds me of the time I had a recruiter blow up at me for 10 minutes because I refused to share my previous salary, then another 10 when I gave them a random target number and called me unreasonable and said they were just trying to be my friend and would you just give me your salary already. I dropped the company like a sack of bricks after that. If their first line of contact with me is that lovely, they almost certainly do not respect the employees they do have.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:08
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I recently shared with a company that I would never consider working for them due to their corporate ethics and the negative culture issues (specifically women working there.) Hoping to save them some time because I wouldn't work there even if every other company closed all open positions. As a result not only did they send me multiple emails about how they've totally changed (no really this time!), but I now get 2-3x as many emails a week from a wide variety of different recruiters there, presumably because any response, even "I think your rush to dominate markets means you are an active menace to society and human lives", is a good response and means I want to learn about more jobs.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:23
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Kyth posted:...the negative culture issues (specifically women working there.) What's wrong with women working there?
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Jun 9, 2018 18:33
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BurntCornMuffin posted:What's wrong with women working there? It's probably Uber.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:38
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BurntCornMuffin posted:What's wrong with women working there? Think Uber, where sexual harassment claims were making big news awhile back. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the company that Kyth was talking about was Uber. Notorious company culture issues, they flaunt the law in many places (their methods are often explicitly illegal, in fact, though they seem to rarely get called on it), and their strategy a) is pretty terrible for their
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Jun 9, 2018 18:39
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Think Uber, where sexual harassment claims were making big news awhile back. He said "women working there" was the culture issue, not the treatment of women. Hence, why I sought clarification.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:01
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Kyth posted:I recently shared with a company that I would never consider working for them due to their corporate ethics and the negative culture issues (specifically women working there.) Hoping to save them some time because I wouldn't work there even if every other company closed all open positions. You can just say it's Uber dude.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:32
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Mniot posted:Instead, the manager just kept telling me that this length of take-home was "completely standard" and that every company was using this hiring method and how did I plan to get a job without doing this basic thing that everyone required? There must be some sort of split in the industry I'm not seeing. Even outside of the embedded ghetto (where whiteboard questions are uncommon, discussion questions are the norm and drug tests are standard), I've only had one place ask me to do a take-home - it certainly didn't limit my ability to find work. And the weird poo poo you hear from people involved in recruitment sometimes just boggle my mind.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:51
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Mniot posted:I actually had a (very mild) encounter like this a few years ago. I completed the phone screen and passed, but wasn't feeling super-impressed with the company. Then they sent me a take-home assignment that looked like at least 4 hours of work. I told the recruiter that I wasn't feeling it and we could stop the interview process. He said the hiring manager wanted to talk to be about the take-home, and I said "sure" thinking that maybe I could suggest (for the third time) that they read some of my publicly-available code and we talk about that in lieu of a take-home. Yeah that's lovely af. Reminds me of the kind of interviewers that will ding you on valid syntax during whiteboarding.
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Jun 9, 2018 22:30
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:18 hour take home is absolutely unreasonable. 2-4 hours is fine though. When I change jobs I typical interview with 20 companies to narrow down to a couple of finalists. Yes 2-4 hours is fine, but 40-80 hours is not, especially if I still have a job at the time. And that’s just for the coding tests, and everyone wants them done yesterday because it’s “just 2-4 hours” to them.
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Jun 9, 2018 23:23
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I think the industry needs one of those things like "mystery shoppers" but for interviews. People whose full time job is just to interview at places and weed out the absolutely insane poo poo that this thread comes up with.
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Jun 9, 2018 23:32
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Kyth posted:I recently shared with a company that I would never consider working for them due to their corporate ethics and the negative culture issues (specifically women working there.) Hoping to save them some time because I wouldn't work there even if every other company closed all open positions. Are you yourself a woman? I told Uber basically the same thing and they haven't contacted me since, but maybe they only listen to "no" when it's from a white man.  Blotto Skorzany posted:There must be some sort of split in the industry I'm not seeing. Even outside of the embedded ghetto (where whiteboard questions are uncommon, discussion questions are the norm and drug tests are standard), I've only had one place ask me to do a take-home - it certainly didn't limit my ability to find work. It's not very common. I'd say less than 1/5 of the places I've applied want a take-home? The ones I've gotten are mostly "please do not spend more than 1 hour on this" and I think that's reasonable enough, especially if later interviews involve talking about the code that I wrote. I've never heard of a place asking for 10 hours (unpaid) or something stupid like that. I'd probably post about it here and on Glassdoor if I did. speng31b posted:I think the industry needs one of those things like "mystery shoppers" but for interviews. People whose full time job is just to interview at places and weed out the absolutely insane poo poo that this thread comes up with. Oh my god I want that job. I love interviewing, but I hate having to actually decide on a job to take.
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Jun 10, 2018 00:54
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Mniot posted:Are you yourself a woman? I told Uber basically the same thing and they haven't contacted me since, but maybe they only listen to "no" when it's from a white man. I am indeed a woman, heh. Though I'm pretty high up in management at this point, at a good company, so maybe that's why they think it's worth continuing to try. I'm sure they think I'd make it easier for them to convince other women to accept offers. But the reason I shared that was to support the statements in thread that the candidate sharing information or not ghosting is basically never worth it for the candidate: all I got was a lot of pressure and now even more emails.
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Jun 10, 2018 04:38
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A woman says "no" and they still keep calling? That's some company culture right there
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Jun 10, 2018 13:40
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rt4 posted:A woman says "no" and they still keep calling? That's some company culture right there It's so perfectly Uber, it's amazing. 
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Jun 10, 2018 14:30
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Mniot posted:It's not very common. I'd say less than 1/5 of the places I've applied want a take-home? The ones I've gotten are mostly "please do not spend more than 1 hour on this" and I think that's reasonable enough, especially if later interviews involve talking about the code that I wrote. I've never heard of a place asking for 10 hours (unpaid) or something stupid like that. I'd probably post about it here and on Glassdoor if I did. I can't speak for the US but in the UK web (Ruby?) scene it's very common. Edit: Well, I say that, but thinking about it harder I think it either used to be more common or is more common for junior and mid positions because I've not been asked to do one for a few years, it's all been in-person instead.
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Jun 10, 2018 14:32
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Blotto Skorzany posted:There must be some sort of split in the industry I'm not seeing. Even outside of the embedded ghetto (where whiteboard questions are uncommon, discussion questions are the norm and drug tests are standard Uhhh what kind of embedded are you used to because I do embedded and this is  to me. Safety critical poo poo or somethimg?
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Jun 10, 2018 17:00
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the talent deficit posted:consider that applicants don't owe you poo poo and the second they decide they don't want to work with you all further interaction is just a liability that can only mean bad things for them; either further annoyance with the clueless company who can't take no for an answer or revenge from someone offended you no longer want to continue in the hiring process. the best case for them explaining that your take home is wildly inappropriate is an apology they probably don't need or want Post/username combo, just saying 
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Jun 10, 2018 17:10
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I'm thinking about leveling up the old "algorithms problem" e-peen (i.e. I have no specific goal in mind) and I want thread opinions: what would motivate you to choose one of the auto-judged platforms (leetcode, hackerrank, topcoder, etc.) vs. practicing from a review-oriented book (CtCI) vs. just breaking out a textbook that has neat problems? (I got a foobar invite a while ago and then never completed one of the problems because baby. long, long time afterwards I came up with what seemed like a reasonable solution but alas, my invitation is no longer active)
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Jun 10, 2018 21:16
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Coding on paper feels crappy to me and I'll probably never do it again. Being able to run my code through test cases and debug it feels infinitely more valuable. I'm using LeetCode at this point and I love it. E: I don't mean scratching out algos I mean trying to write full solutions on paper
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Jun 10, 2018 21:22
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I would recommend LeetCode or something similar as testing your solution is key to reveal problems and writing test case, while important for the job, is time consuming. You should be familiar with how to test edge cases, but most interviewers will let you skate by on that part if the algorithm doesnt have problems. Pen and paper, or better yet a whiteboard, if you have know you need improvement in that specific format, but it's once again time consuming and hard to test
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Jun 11, 2018 01:41
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Last time I was interviewing I used leetcode + a whiteboard. Write out the full answer on a whiteboard and then once I was happy with it type it into leetcode to see if it passed.
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Jun 11, 2018 01:56
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feedmegin posted:Uhhh what kind of embedded are you used to because I do embedded and this is Yep. My stupid code even needs to be certified now. Are you doing consumer-facing stuff?
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Jun 11, 2018 13:54
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I got my itinerary for my (first) on-site Friday. 1 hour of coding, 1 hour of design, 1 hour of culture fit and.... 1 hour dedicated to SQL it seems???? Not a single bullet from three jobs over the past 5 years lists anything at all SQL related, I don't even have it on my list of skills anymore after bombing 2 entirely SQL interviews last go around. Why the gently caress are companies this braindead when it comes to recruiting and hiring?
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Jun 11, 2018 19:57
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There's a good chance like half their application is implemented in the DB via a Rube Goldberg system of stored procedures, views, triggers, functions, and (if the DBMS supports them) synonyms.
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Jun 11, 2018 21:03
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Being conversant with SQL can be really powerful. An analyst who does know SQL is way way more dangerous than one who doesn't. Maybe practice a little bit?
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Jun 11, 2018 21:27
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prisoner of waffles posted:Being conversant with SQL can be really powerful. An analyst who does know SQL is way way more dangerous than one who doesn't. I'm definitely conversant, I occasionally hack together small queries on our BigQuery data stores, but I'm not hour long interview deep-dive RDBMS level like my last SQL interviews entailed.
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Jun 11, 2018 21:33
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I got my itinerary for my (first) on-site Friday. 1 hour of coding, 1 hour of design, 1 hour of culture fit and.... 1 hour dedicated to SQL it seems???? Not a single bullet from three jobs over the past 5 years lists anything at all SQL related, I don't even have it on my list of skills anymore after bombing 2 entirely SQL interviews last go around. Relax, they probably just do some work with SQL and want to assess each applicant's general proficiency in it. Did the job ad fail to mention SQL proficiency?
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Jun 12, 2018 04:47
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:Relax, they probably just do some work with SQL and want to assess each applicant's general proficiency in it. Did the job ad fail to mention SQL proficiency? It wasn't in either of the job ads for the two teams I'm up for which is why I'm so perplexed. As a matter of fact I just went back and it specifically says "and usage of NoSQL type databases", of which I've used many.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:55
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Good Will Hrunting posted:It wasn't in either of the job ads for the two teams I'm up for which is why I'm so perplexed. As a matter of fact I just went back and it specifically says "and usage of NoSQL type databases", of which I've used many. Hmm maybe it's NoSQL that the fourth session is about and not SQL? Dunno - but if it is about SQL and the job ad said nothing about it then yeah I'd be perplexed too.
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Jun 12, 2018 06:59
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Some places are just dumb. I've had the first words out of an interviewer's mouth be "So, let's talk about CSS" when I was interviewing for a 100% back-end position.
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Jun 12, 2018 07:18
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It is best to set expectations up front: "Of course we can talk about SQL but it has been years since I touched it and I'll underperform on it. Would it be possible to deep dive into No-SQL, as per the job description?" Or not and just waste a few hours of your life.
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Jun 12, 2018 07:55
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Keetron posted:It is best to set expectations up front: "Of course we can talk about SQL but it has been years since I touched it and I'll underperform on it. Would it be possible to deep dive into No-SQL, as per the job description?" “ok thanks for coming in  ”
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Jun 12, 2018 12:37
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Do that beforehand of course so that when this is a dealbreaker you save everyone a lot of time.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:23
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My recruiter is aware of this. He said not to sweat it and focus on the JVM knowledge/system design things I can flex. I'm looking at it as a guilt-free practice interview day off from my current role. If I get an offer, great. If not, oh well.
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Jun 12, 2018 16:04
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Blotto Skorzany posted:Yep. My stupid code even needs to be certified now. Are you doing consumer-facing stuff? Not safety critical stuff (and it's more the stuff I do gets used by another company to make their actual product). Previously I've worked in stuff like automotive head units, so not talking to ECUs or anything so much as satellite radio and satnav and all that.
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Jun 12, 2018 16:14
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