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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I feel like if you're serious about putting equations and formulae into your document, nothing's going to beat LaTeX.

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Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I feel like if you're serious about putting equations and formulae into your document, nothing's going to beat LaTeX.

"Just give up on anything but LaTeX ever doing what you want" is kind of a defeatist answer, though?

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
Math, unlike programming, is also often done by actually old people, not 35yos calling themselves old. You also have to read dead people's math

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Munkeymon posted:

"Just give up on anything but LaTeX ever doing what you want" is kind of a defeatist answer, though?

I view it more as an acknowledgement of the complexity involved in representing mathematical formulae. It's not impossible to create a GUI for math -- if I recall correctly, Microsoft Word has an equation builder. But (and here I must acknowledge that my knowledge is at least a decade out of date) I seem to recall it being infamously hard to work with and mediocre in its output. There's an argument to be made here that if you can't do something well, then you shouldn't do it at all.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

Math, unlike programming, is also often done by actually old people, not 35yos calling themselves old. You also have to read dead people's math

:yikes:

So let's break this down a bit.
  • There are plenty of people who were professional software developers in the 80's who are still professional software developers today, using modern software development tools. Age discrimination is absolutely a thing, but that doesn't mean that old people can't or don't program.
  • If you can do undergraduate-level math (I'm talking differential equations, complex calculus, graph theory, etc.), you can almost certainly write formulae in LaTeX. It's certainly the case that almost all of the math professors I've interacted with routinely use it in their work, and so did their advisees.
  • If you're trying to read a dead person's work, you're using whatever format they wrote it in, or whatever format someone else converted it to. I fail to see how that's germane to the conversation.

cliffy
Apr 12, 2002

What would a reasonable offer for a staff software engineer position for a largish company based in San Francisco?

I have an idea based on searching salary websites, but would like additional opinions.

I’ll be 100% remote if that matters.

minato
Jun 7, 2004

cutty cain't hang, say 7-up.
Taco Defender
I'd expect $130K-$170 (higher if you were at a FAANG) for a staff engineer if you were located in SF. But the cost of Bay Area living is ridonkulous, which accounts for a large part of the high salaries. So remote (as in, out of the Bay Area) would be significantly lower, I'd think.

Edit: Also many SF companies bump the total compensation with RSUs and stock grants, and perks like free meals can be significant too (a free lunch that'd normally cost $10-12, x 250 working days = $2500-3000/year).

minato fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Mar 15, 2019

playground tough
Oct 29, 2007
Need some pros to tell me I am being dumb.

I started working for company X(a three year old startup) one year and two months ago as their second dev - my first full time position. Shortly after starting, it becomes apparent that they have no sound technical process in place. At the time, virtually all of their software was poo poo duct taped node js and angular.

Three months into my time at X, the "lead" dev who hired me quits and I am given his job with a raise that basically gets me to where I wanted to be based on my experience, just with way more responsibility.

I spent the last year stressing the issues of how much their tech sucks, and taking extra time on projects writing tests, basically trying to integrate better practices into the process. I have hired one solid dev who works under me, he's great.

There have been improvements because of my efforts, but all the founders seem to care about is speed of implementation and growth. They want to "fail fast" yet they do a poor job of going back and fixing failures in how they orchestrate the execution of projects. These guys bootstrapped their company and are profitable for fucks sake, and they're chasing growth through dumb ventures that I feel waste the development teams resources. Their plans are hardly thought out, they're throwing things at the wall to see what sticks without employing anyone who understands how to run a product. Some of our small products add zero value to the transactions at hand, and simply create more work for our small dev and support teams. I think our resources are best used improving the product they have but, instead, the founders' attention span continues to be all over the place.

On my one year anniversary they offer me a 12 percent raise out of nowhere and 0.5% equity (that I dont think has any value at all since we haven't grown much in the last year). They have been trying to secure funding in order to grow faster, but 6 months of the CEO working on this has yielded nothing.

Enter company Y. Y has been on my radar for over a year. I respect what they do and how they run their business. Y is not a product, rather, Y is a streamlined agile dev shop with an emphasis on creating solid experiences for their clients, and providing amazing work life balance for their employees. They provide a generous profit share, a diverse range of projects to work on, 12 extra long weekends each year, and truly focus on maintaining an environment where engineers can grow.

Out of frustration, I reached out to Y and have secured an offer. The offer stipulates a twelve week trial period, and compensation is level with what I was receiving at X before the second raise due to Y's 100% healthcare contribution. I'm cool with this as I value my career's growth more.

Here's my problem. I know that X is counting on me, and I am quite friendly with the 5 other people in the office. I feel like poo poo leaving them with one dev who I have respect for to deal without me, especially since X is trying to hire. But, I loving hate the organization they've created. I feel the company will be able to continue without me, my absence might gently caress them up for a little while, but they will still have money coming in and they aren't dependent on investors.

Company Y seems like a place where I can grow more skills than just javascript hell poo poo and basic managerial tasks. When it comes to my career, it feels like I am going to grow exponentially faster with a nimble company like Y.

Should I feel bad about dipping on these dudes at X? Or should I just give them three or so weeks notice, and move on with the intention of remaining friendly and helping them document their processes in my spare time?

I think I do plan on leaving X, but actually following through has me overthinking so much in how to do it. I basically need to tell them next week that I have decided to leave their company.

e; sorry for the big post

playground tough fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 15, 2019

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
:sever:

Do not feel bad about leaving a company in the lurch. They secure your efforts by paying you money; once they stop paying you, you don't owe them a thing. If you leaving means that the other dev has too much on their plate so they leave too -- well, then that's on leadership for failing to provide enough support and redundancy. It is absolutely not your responsibility to stay in a job and suffer just to keep other people from suffering.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

cliffy posted:

What would a reasonable offer for a staff software engineer position for a largish company based in San Francisco?

I have an idea based on searching salary websites, but would like additional opinions.

I’ll be 100% remote if that matters.

It is going to depend on what that company considers to be a staff software engineer.

https://levels.fyi has some benchmarks for various tech companies

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

playground tough posted:

:words:

Here's my problem. I know that X is counting on me, and I am quite friendly with the 5 other people in the office. I feel like poo poo leaving them with one dev who I have respect for to deal without me, especially since X is trying to hire. But, I loving hate the organization they've created. I feel the company will be able to continue without me, my absence might gently caress them up for a little while, but they will still have money coming in and they aren't dependent on investors.

Should I feel bad about dipping on these dudes at X? Or should I just give them three or so weeks notice, and move on with the intention of remaining friendly and helping them document their processes in my spare time?

Give them the standard two weeks, do what you can during those two weeks to make life easier for the co-workers you're friendly with, and stop there. Period. The company is not your family and you need to think about your own career (and thus your financial future in a country where that poo poo really loving matters (I'm assuming U.S. here)) first and foremost. The co-workers you like will be fine without you. If any actually are your friends, they will still be after you GTFO and they'll be happy for you for getting a better deal.

Don't loving spend your spare time on this company without a consulting agreement and the associated compensation. If it's important, they will pay that money, and if they won't it's NOT IMPORTANT.

Yes if you're not a sociopath you're going to very briefly feel bad about leaving some things unfinished, for your co-workers if nothing else. That's normal. It's also not a reason to not do better for yourself, full stop.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

playground tough posted:

Or should I just give them three or so weeks notice, and move on with the intention of remaining friendly and helping them document their processes in my spare time?

Yo, TMA and Che got you for the most part, but sweet jesus don't "help in your spare time." It doesn't help anyone long-term and not helping 'enough' would probably lead to greater resentment over time.

Tell them you're leaving. Offer to spend those 80 hours however they wish, including documenting processes, but give the choice to them and respect their decision.

Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
Agreed with the previous posters. You have to be willing to ditch a failing company that you merely collect a salary from. :capitalism:

asur
Dec 28, 2012

cliffy posted:

What would a reasonable offer for a staff software engineer position for a largish company based in San Francisco?

I have an idea based on searching salary websites, but would like additional opinions.

I’ll be 100% remote if that matters.

Very dependent on what staff means, but I'd expect above 350k and probably a max of 500k unless you have a very unique skillset.

Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
The last step of my crappy experience interviewing at smile direct club was leaving a nasty review on glassdoor.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview...Review_25159506

cliffy
Apr 12, 2002

asur posted:

Very dependent on what staff means, but I'd expect above 350k and probably a max of 500k unless you have a very unique skillset.

Can you elaborate on this? What are you basing this estimate on? Most websites estimate compensation for Staff Software Engineer at far lower than 350k across companies. Taking into account base salary plus equity here.

Cuntpunch
Oct 3, 2003

A monkey in a long line of kings

cliffy posted:

Can you elaborate on this? What are you basing this estimate on? Most websites estimate compensation for Staff Software Engineer at far lower than 350k across companies. Taking into account base salary plus equity here.

I can speak with direct knowledge of a SF-headquartered corporation whose 'Staff Software Engineer' role is probably going to pay more like 120k.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Cuntpunch posted:

I can speak with direct knowledge of a SF-headquartered corporation whose 'Staff Software Engineer' role is probably going to pay more like 120k.

Is staff the level above senior there? Because that’s how I’ve heard the term used.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

cliffy posted:

Can you elaborate on this? What are you basing this estimate on? Most websites estimate compensation for Staff Software Engineer at far lower than 350k across companies. Taking into account base salary plus equity here.

This is why the question is worthless without knowing the company. Titles and compensation vary wildly in this industry

Harriet Carker
Jun 2, 2009

Cuntpunch posted:

I can speak with direct knowledge of a SF-headquartered corporation whose 'Staff Software Engineer' role is probably going to pay more like 120k.

Assuming we are using the same terms and staff is the level above senior, you are getting absolutely hosed making 120k in SF. I only have myself, my wife, and other friends in my App academy cohort as data points, but 120k in the Bay Area is very much a 0-2 years of experience salary. I don’t know what seniors and staff engineers make but it should be much, much higher than that.

cliffy
Apr 12, 2002

Jose Valasquez posted:

This is why the question is worthless without knowing the company. Titles and compensation vary wildly in this industry

I’m a bit hesitant to share everything. Staff seems like the natural step between senior and principal at this company.

I have an offer in hand! Base salary is 165k + ~35k equity per year for four years. Assuming stock stays steady.

I think this is a great offer personally. I’m thinking of gently asking for a little more though. Purely from a game theoretic standpoint. It shouldn’t hurt to ask respectfully.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


165k in San Francisco? Have you looked at housing?

cliffy
Apr 12, 2002

ultrafilter posted:

165k in San Francisco? Have you looked at housing?

100% remote. I live in an area with not-insane house prices, and a more reasonable cost of living.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

cliffy posted:

I’m a bit hesitant to share everything. Staff seems like the natural step between senior and principal at this company.

I have an offer in hand! Base salary is 165k + ~35k equity per year for four years. Assuming stock stays steady.

I think this is a great offer personally. I’m thinking of gently asking for a little more though. Purely from a game theoretic standpoint. It shouldn’t hurt to ask respectfully.

I get paid this and i dont have a special title

Staff at tech major ime is >250k total comp

Infinotize
Sep 5, 2003

I work remote for a largeish SF-based company. I took a ~8% hit on my salary when I went remote (based on cost of labor difference between city I was in and where I moved). My RSU did not change, all in all my comp changed by like 5%. I guess, there are still many companies who are not fully remote flexible and so us remoters have a little bit less leverage, but that doesn't mean we should accept getting screwed. Staff at my company would be 350k-500k

asur
Dec 28, 2012

cliffy posted:

Can you elaborate on this? What are you basing this estimate on? Most websites estimate compensation for Staff Software Engineer at far lower than 350k across companies. Taking into account base salary plus equity here.

I'm basing it off my personal experience and websites. A quick glance at levels.fyi shows that staff pays over $350k at Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Amazon. I didn't do an exhaustive search but the only company that didn't pay over $350k was Microsoft.

Just for comparison you can pretty easily get offers for $225k - $300k for a senior position in San Francisco. A 200k offer for staff seems extremely low to me. The 165k seems reasonably inline as a signficant number of companies cap salary, but $35k in equity per year as staff is a joke.

Cuntpunch posted:

I can speak with direct knowledge of a SF-headquartered corporation whose 'Staff Software Engineer' role is probably going to pay more like 120k.

Getting paid 120k in SF is below market for a college graduate. Its probably below market for staff everywhere in the US.

asur fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Mar 16, 2019

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


levels.fyi is aggregated from self-selected data and probably skews a bit high. I'm not sure how much I'd trust it.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

ultrafilter posted:

levels.fyi is aggregated from self-selected data and probably skews a bit high. I'm not sure how much I'd trust it.

For Google at least it seems way more accurate than Glassdoor.

rsjr
Nov 2, 2002

yay for protoss being so simple that retards can win with it
I can vouch from experience it has the total compensation bands correct for the respective levels for at least three of the companies listed.

apseudonym
Feb 25, 2011

cliffy posted:

100% remote. I live in an area with not-insane house prices, and a more reasonable cost of living.

If you're remote and they do cost of living adjustment (most bay area companies I know do) that's not horrible, but it still feels low at least compared to FAANG

Xik
Mar 10, 2011

Dinosaur Gum
I previously posted in this thread about taking a few month break from work and it's been great, I've made some big steps with various specialist re medical things to the point I'm starting to feel guilty I'm not working now. So will probably need to look at going back to work in the near-ish future.

My old team lead, who left my old place a while before I did said there is a role waiting for me at the new place he works. I already had a fairly casual interview with the CEO and a technical director before I took a break, he told me they like me etc. The technical skills fit me like a glove and the guy was a fantastic team lead when I worked for him.

So my question is has anyone in here ever "followed" a boss around before? Anything I should look out for? Advice? Any reasons not to do it?

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Xik posted:

I previously posted in this thread about taking a few month break from work and it's been great, I've made some big steps with various specialist re medical things to the point I'm starting to feel guilty I'm not working now. So will probably need to look at going back to work in the near-ish future.

My old team lead, who left my old place a while before I did said there is a role waiting for me at the new place he works. I already had a fairly casual interview with the CEO and a technical director before I took a break, he told me they like me etc. The technical skills fit me like a glove and the guy was a fantastic team lead when I worked for him.

So my question is has anyone in here ever "followed" a boss around before? Anything I should look out for? Advice? Any reasons not to do it?

this is basically the modus operandi of actually old peeps in silicon valley (over 50, 55, 60) who can still get jobs ime

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Not exactly the same thing, but the way I found the team I may well be moving to (haven't made a final decision yet) was by asking my old TL if they had any recommendations.

Bad leadership is pretty much the #1 thing that can torpedo a team, so if you have an option to go somewhere where you know that at least the immediate leadership will be good, that's a big plus.

Greatbacon
Apr 9, 2012

by Pragmatica

Xik posted:

I previously posted in this thread about taking a few month break from work and it's been great, I've made some big steps with various specialist re medical things to the point I'm starting to feel guilty I'm not working now. So will probably need to look at going back to work in the near-ish future.

My old team lead, who left my old place a while before I did said there is a role waiting for me at the new place he works. I already had a fairly casual interview with the CEO and a technical director before I took a break, he told me they like me etc. The technical skills fit me like a glove and the guy was a fantastic team lead when I worked for him.

So my question is has anyone in here ever "followed" a boss around before? Anything I should look out for? Advice? Any reasons not to do it?

I mean, if you know this person and they know you, that's already a big leg up, since business is mostly about trust and relationships. Did you like working for them? Did you like working with people they hired? Do you think they still have things to teach you? Do you feel like they were actually an advocate for you or were mostly just walking the walk? Were they ever a giant exploitative rear end in a top hat who threw you under the bus, or were they simply as exploitative as the business demanded?

I've had 6 bosses over my career and I can only think of a couple I might "follow", but I would say that if you're already toying with the idea, that's as good a sign as any that it probably won't immediately bite you in the rear end.

The biggest downside I can think of is that you somehow don't end up working for them in the short term, either because they leave or get promoted away from you. I don't think it's an inherently "bad" thing.

Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Xik posted:

I previously posted in this thread about taking a few month break from work and it's been great, I've made some big steps with various specialist re medical things to the point I'm starting to feel guilty I'm not working now. So will probably need to look at going back to work in the near-ish future.

My old team lead, who left my old place a while before I did said there is a role waiting for me at the new place he works. I already had a fairly casual interview with the CEO and a technical director before I took a break, he told me they like me etc. The technical skills fit me like a glove and the guy was a fantastic team lead when I worked for him.

So my question is has anyone in here ever "followed" a boss around before? Anything I should look out for? Advice? Any reasons not to do it?

I'm 31 and doing this. In my new gig I start next week my boss will be my boss from 2011-2012. I haven't seen him since then but I'm very optimistic about it - I know he's a good dude and he already knows a lot about me, so I expect ramping up into this company will be pretty easy.

A related story - there are two guys at my current job who have job-hopped together for the last 14 years. One goes, then the other comes with later. I guess they alternate, but they don't do it on purpose, it's just always worked out.

So, IMO, if your old boss was a good boss before, I don't see why not to give it a go.

M.C. McMic
Nov 8, 2008

The Weight room
Is your friend
I'm looking for a new job. I've been a Python developer for the past 6 years. I recently applied to a few places, took a couple coding tests, and wow things have changed.

I'm not sure what I was expecting, but both jobs I applied to utilized 3rd-party interviewing companies. This, in and of itself, was strange to me. In both cases, I had to take a 60 min test online with someone watching my every keystroke, and I bombed both times.

Both tests were quite similar: data structures and algorithms. In both cases, I feel like I choked. I could explain what I wanted to do, but I ultimately could not. As soon as the interview was over, I was able to go and complete the solution on my own within 30 min. This is despite the fact that the problems they were having me solve have gently caress-all to do with the vast majority of programming jobs. That's a whole 'nother rant I won't get into.

My question is: What's the best way for me to prepare for a modern coding interview? Honestly, I've just started out in my job search, but I don't want to keep crashing and burning if these coding tests are all going to be the same. If I can consistently pass them, I know I will do great once I'm there in person. That's generally been the case.

I've already been doing sample tests on a few sites. I also bought a book on coding interviews, which felt gross. I'm in a very good market. Developers are in high demand here. Should I keep sending out resumes or take a minute and really polish up on my coding tests?

minato
Jun 7, 2004

cutty cain't hang, say 7-up.
Taco Defender
Yeah it's a fact of life that many companies cargo-cult the data-structures/algorithms tests. It's theatre, and you gotta learn your lines before you go on stage. You just gotta practice more. Do it on an actual whiteboard and don't allow yourself to erase anything, practice thinking out loud, practice with a friend. It sucks and takes lots of time, but it gets easier. I wouldn't say it becomes easy though.

Remember that they're not so much looking at "can you solve this problem?" but "how you solve this problem - what's your process?". I.e. when you get stumped do you just give up, or backtrack, or take a different tack? If the problem's goals are vague (and they usually are), can you ask intelligent questions about it? When you're asked to write code, do you nail the algorithm first, or do you just start writing code? Are you careful and cover edge cases? Can you talk intelligently about what you've written; explain not just how it works, but its advantages and limitations.

I don't feel this fits the reality of the job, but that's not the point - it's the reality of the interview, so that's what you've gotta study to pass.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
Could also seek out places that treat applicants like adults :shrug:

Gildiss
Aug 24, 2010

Grimey Drawer

pokeyman posted:

Could also seek out places that treat applicants like adults :shrug:

Good places don't have many openings. Bad places with lots of churn do.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
It just takes practice. If you can be assed to apply for jobs you don’t want, that’s the best practice, but it’s pretty unpleasant while you’re doing it. The other reason to play the numbers game is that it’s the best way to find a company that doesn’t follow the same dogshit process.

Also, this:

minato posted:

Remember that they're not so much looking at "can you solve this problem?" but "how you solve this problem - what's your process?".

is an oft-repeated lie. Every hiring manager on these boards claims to be the special snowflake who does it, but in my experience, 90% of technical interviews are exactly the same kind of examination as your college midterm. If you solve the problem, you’ll move forward. If you don’t, you won’t. If you happen to already know the solution going in, just pretend like you’re thinking it up from scratch.

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Tinestram
Jan 13, 2006

Excalibur? More like "Needle"

Grimey Drawer

minato posted:

don't allow yourself to erase anything

The rest of the post made sense to me, but I really don't understand this part. If there's an obvious flaw in what you've done, why would you not correct it?

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