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Jul 18, 2003

Xik posted:

I'm glad I'll be dead by the time software has to be written for a multi-planet economy.

I got to do some of this when working for NASA
https://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/mars24/ it honestly makes more sense than most terrestrial time stuff since there is less politics involved

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kayakyakr
Feb 16, 2004

Kayak is true

leper khan posted:

so still long after all of us posting here are dust

Depends on if you believe the 40-80 year estimates or the "it's impossible" estimates.

mmkay
Oct 21, 2010

kayakyakr posted:

There are a bunch of Euro countries that have opted out of DST too, right? I know it's becoming less and less common.

I wouldn't call Russia, Belarus and Iceland 'a bunch'.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

bob dobbs is dead posted:

even like, the rest of east asia is materially better than singapore lol

In what way?

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Help, I inherited an engineer who's a level below most of the rest of my team and he's 2x as productive as anyone else not named me already, agreeable in terms of what to work on, produces more in 10-5 than anyone I've worked with here yet, and I don't think my manager is adept enough to understand how we cannot afford to lose him and should make sure he's rewarded at every possible chance because he's the kind of person who carries a team.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Start documenting.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Help, I inherited an engineer who's a level below most of the rest of my team and he's 2x as productive as anyone else not named me already, agreeable in terms of what to work on, produces more in 10-5 than anyone I've worked with here yet, and I don't think my manager is adept enough to understand how we cannot afford to lose him and should make sure he's rewarded at every possible chance because he's the kind of person who carries a team.

when they leave check in 6mo later and see if they can take you with them

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Help, I inherited an engineer who's a level below most of the rest of my team and he's 2x as productive as anyone else not named me already, agreeable in terms of what to work on, produces more in 10-5 than anyone I've worked with here yet, and I don't think my manager is adept enough to understand how we cannot afford to lose him and should make sure he's rewarded at every possible chance because he's the kind of person who carries a team.
All you can do is promote these folks before they're ready on paper IMO

When you get someone on this sort of aggressive growth trajectory and you put them up against a rigid perf process that only promotes people at a certain time during the year, that leaves ~10 months out of the year where it's easier and a surer bet to find that promotion externally than internally

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Realized after I wrote this that he doesn't report to my manager and thank heavens for that. Spoke with his manager this morning and they're aware of how good he is. He told me to keep the praise coming, summarize his accomplishments even at a super high level and relay his general engineering maturity regularly, and they'll do the rest. Can't wait for his skip (my manager) to block any promo or spot bonuses!

CtrlAltDeath
Oct 24, 2003

Your bra bomb better work, Nerdlinger!
Getting close to 20 years into my career now and I'm kinda feeling stuck. Started out as IT support and ops, transitioned to web dev early on, eventually worked my way up into dev management and now I'm not sure where I actually want to go. Currently working at an agency where I have always been a jack of all trades out of necessity but now I feel stuck as I am looking to switch jobs.

I'm not sure where I exist now because I have been straddling the line between dev and management for a while, and while I think I'm way stronger as a dev and technical consultant than as a manager, I haven't been doing tons of hands on dev work for long enough now that I feel like I've fallen behind, and the idea of grinding leetcode interviews at this point in my life makes me want to die. On the flip side, I haven't been able to focus purely on management enough to where I feel confident making that my sole focus either, since I feel like there are some skill and experience gaps when I'm looking at dedicated engineering manager roles at other companies.

Mix all that in with an unhealthy dose of burnout from years of working at an agency that has been "going through growing pains" for several years now, and I'm left wondering if I even want to do any of this any more.

Has anybody else here gotten to a point where you feel pigeonholed in your current role / company or feel adrift when trying to figure out your next move? I'm at the point where I'm so wiped out from my current job that I get fatigued just looking at other job postings, and I get bummed out when I think about how I actually used to really enjoy the work earlier on in my career.

kneelbeforezog
Nov 13, 2019
My job history started at around 29 years old. Had a few MIS degree very 'loosely related odd jobs (3 months flashing tablets for a prison, 3 months working at an emergency medical ambulance company doing insurance stuff and sorting mail), and the last three jobs are 1 year as a contractor for a bank doing non technical stuff, 6 months at a bank doing non technical stuff, and from 2022 to today, working at a bank doing dot net programming and rpa stuff. My resume of course only shows these last 2 jobs + my current present one. How do I transition this job to a higher paying one? I'm trying to get a software developer job but not having a degree in computer science, plus more then 2 years of actually professional experience, makes it hard to do ,even when I lie on my resume and say I did technical stuff at my previous two jobs similar to the stuff I'm actually doing currently., im still not getting many callbacks for roles in software or tech. I'm 33 now and want to increase my salary .

My actual day to day job is very basic, boring RPA stuff that anyone can do (and thats my job title, automations developer), basic calculator type wpf/winforms applications (so not even asp.net stuff, just very old technology applications where I get free reign to just build and deliver), and power automate/power bi/power app building.

I don't have any experience reading other peoples code, looking at codebases, I couldnt contribute to any github projects even if I tried, all of my knowledge is completely self taught and there is no senior anyone to really help me. My manager doesnt have a CS degree either. I think very few around me do, and im not really working in tech as it is. I'm a 'citizen developer' for rpa. I just get assigned odd jobs and try to deliver a solution with the tool I'm least bored of for that day. Im completely on my own, unsupervised, and un classically trained in coding,I just made the transition slowly from low-code (powerapps/rpa) to code (dot net) and now im here not sure how to take it to the next step, or what that step should be.

I've thought of sharepoint developer, but wasnt able to crack the interview process due to my lack of years in dotnet and it showed. They talked about something about running farms for sharepoint, server farms, and i have no idea what that means. I guess it means hosting the actually sharepoints that the companies use? That'd be interesting but sounds more like devops.

Where can I take it from here?

kneelbeforezog fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 12, 2024

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

kneelbeforezog posted:

My job history started at around 29 years old. Had a few MIS degree 'loosely related odd jobs, and the last three jobs are 1 year as a contractor for a bank doing non technical stuff, 6 months at a bank doing non technical stuff, and from 2022 to today, working at a bank doing dot net programming and rpa stuff. How do I transition this job to a higher paying one? I'm trying to get a software developer job but not having a degree in computer science, plus more then 2 years of actually professional experience, makes it hard to do ,even when I lie on my resume and say I did technical stuff at my previous two jobs similar to the stuff I'm actually doing currently., im still not getting many callbacks for roles in software or tech. I'm 33 now and want to increase my salary .

My actual day to day job is very basic, boring RPA, basic calculator type wpf/winforms applications, and power automate/power bi/power app building. Where can I take it from here?

you picked a bad time to switch to tech

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

kneelbeforezog posted:

My job history started at around 29 years old.

That'd be interesting but sounds more like devops.

Where can I take it from here?

You can still make an absolute assload of money in devops. Maybe not as much as a L6 SWE at FAANG but still way more than is necessary to live comfortably and also have at least one money hemorrhaging hobby like cars or boats or spouse

Based on your brief description, your career path definitely sounds like you'd maybe be an ideal candidate for devops. Most (or very many) people in the field come from a non traditional background

leper khan posted:

you picked a bad time to switch to tech

This too

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Realized after I wrote this that he doesn't report to my manager and thank heavens for that. Spoke with his manager this morning and they're aware of how good he is. He told me to keep the praise coming, summarize his accomplishments even at a super high level and relay his general engineering maturity regularly, and they'll do the rest. Can't wait for his skip (my manager) to block any promo or spot bonuses!

I swapped some team members with another manager in my company, turns out he's never had a single career conversation with anyone on his team or even filled out the matrix we have. I have no idea how he's promoting people under him, I guess it's based on vibes. I feel bad for my people going under him and I'm trying to get them all promotions before they go because sure as hell they're not going to get one after.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

Ensign Expendable posted:

I have no idea how he's promoting people under him, I guess it's based on vibes.
Sokath, his eyes open!

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
"ooh, we filled out the piece of paper and therefore its not on vibes". the paper is just writing down your vibes. just because you wrote the vibes down doesnt mean you aren't going on the vibes

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Ensign Expendable posted:

I swapped some team members with another manager in my company, turns out he's never had a single career conversation with anyone on his team or even filled out the matrix we have. I have no idea how he's promoting people under him, I guess it's based on vibes. I feel bad for my people going under him and I'm trying to get them all promotions before they go because sure as hell they're not going to get one after.
Eh, I've had a few dozen directs over my career and I think a career conversation with exactly one of them yielded information that was useful for either of us. The good stuff comes out in 1:1s, things you learn about a person through inference by working closely with them, getting a sense for what's easy and hard. Career conversations are helpful for the Kind Of Person that brings so many problems to every 1:1 that you can't spend time on anything related to their career development unless you literally block it out on the calendar. Otherwise, if you're organized, there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking an eventually-consistent, incremental approach to getting everything you need.

All promotions are based on vibes. Promotions are nominally driven by impact, but impact is just the vibes of senior leaders elsewhere in the company. There are certain behaviors that people like to see demonstrated, and if you're really good at the mechanical parts of your job, it will keep you from getting blamed for a struggling team's slowdowns and failures in your own perf. Ladders are virtually irrelevant for promotion, until you start applying them to people actually competing for a promotion, at which point they're a reasonably effective DEI gut-checking tool.

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Mar 13, 2024

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

bob dobbs is dead posted:

"ooh, we filled out the piece of paper and therefore its not on vibes". the paper is just writing down your vibes. just because you wrote the vibes down doesnt mean you aren't going on the vibes

c'mon bob there's a matrix involved, show some respect

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed
Google put a lot of work into having non-vibes-based promotions and turns out that just has a different set of problems.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Vulture Culture posted:

Eh, I've had a few dozen directs over my career and I think a career conversation with exactly one of them yielded information that was useful for either of us. The good stuff comes out in 1:1s, things you learn about a person through inference by working closely with them, getting a sense for what's easy and hard. Career conversations are helpful for the Kind Of Person that brings so many problems to every 1:1 that you can't spend time on anything related to their career development unless you literally block it out on the calendar. Otherwise, if you're organized, there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking an eventually-consistent, incremental approach to getting everything you need.

All promotions are based on vibes. Promotions are nominally driven by impact, but impact is just the vibes of senior leaders elsewhere in the company. There are certain behaviors that people like to see demonstrated, and if you're really good at the mechanical parts of your job, it will keep you from getting blamed for a struggling team's slowdowns and failures in your own perf. Ladders are virtually irrelevant for promotion, until you start applying them to people actually competing for a promotion, at which point they're a reasonably effective DEI gut-checking tool.

Yeah the DEI part is probably a big deal because the guy's team is the only engineering team that's all men and he himself is fighting tooth and nail to take any unconscious bias mitigation out of our hiring process. The team didn't even interview any women last time they had an opening.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Ensign Expendable posted:

Yeah the DEI part is probably a big deal because the guy's team is the only engineering team that's all men and he himself is fighting tooth and nail to take any unconscious bias mitigation out of our hiring process. The team didn't even interview any women last time they had an opening.
Yeah, Rooney Rule is table stakes for TYOOL 2024

kayakyakr
Feb 16, 2004

Kayak is true
My current workplace is the most diverse I've ever worked with. Not really sure how, but we've got women spread through our entire engineering team, including among our near and offshore contractors, and at all levels of the ladder, too. It wasn't really a conscious effort to seek out women, either. I'm pretty proud that we've been as balanced as we have been, actually.

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


lol

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/glassdoor-adding-users-real-names-job-info-to-profiles-without-consent/

SurgicalOntologist
Jun 17, 2004

I have an engineer that I am promoting to Staff Engineer, he will be the first in our organization (15 engineers), and he has already organically started to take a more cross-team role but the idea is to keep pushing him in that direction.

However, he has a bit of imposter syndrome and doesn't want to be in the position that people are only listening to him because of his title, and he wants to wait until he feels more like he's earned it before announcing it. I of course told him he already has earned it, not only with me but also with his peers, and they are not going to be surprised. Maybe there will be some grumbling but I don't think his concerns are warranted. I think I basically got him past his fear but I also wanted to ask here about how to handle these situations. We're a small company, mostly seniors, and most of them humble and cautious so it's hard to get people to step into more leadership roles when we don't really have examples of that to draw on within the company.

The other aspect is that his day-to-day role actually won't change so much now, we originally were planning to be ~25 engineers by now in which case I wanted to pull him from his team altogether. But we scaled back our growth plans so he is still needed on the team. In fact we already have a problem of capacity as we are in the middle of some big architecture decisions, build vs buys, etc, so his team has slowed down somewhat from his (and some others') participation in those discussions.

I guess I don't have any specific question just thought I'd share the experience as it's the first time I promoted someone to Staff.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Have you or he read what's on StaffEng? If not I'd definitely recommend taking a look.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


I'm a fan of The Staff Engineer's Path as well

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
I'm a fan of the staff engineer's staff, myself :awesome:

barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof
I was put into a similar a situation recently but from the side of the individual being promoted to staff. I also had a lot of imposter syndrome from not having as many YOE as other engineers. Something that has helped me cope with that imposter syndrome is noting that a lot of engineers have no interest in making the move from senior to staff as the nature of the work changes a lot. Also, accepting that I’m being effective in my role at my current company, doesn’t mean I would be an effective staff elsewhere but that doesn’t take away from the accomplishments i have made so far. Maybe that kind of thinking will help. Just wanted to share my experience

E: or just tell them to take the money

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

SurgicalOntologist posted:

I have an engineer that I am promoting to Staff Engineer, he will be the first in our organization (15 engineers), and he has already organically started to take a more cross-team role but the idea is to keep pushing him in that direction.

However, he has a bit of imposter syndrome and doesn't want to be in the position that people are only listening to him because of his title, and he wants to wait until he feels more like he's earned it before announcing it. I of course told him he already has earned it, not only with me but also with his peers, and they are not going to be surprised. Maybe there will be some grumbling but I don't think his concerns are warranted. I think I basically got him past his fear but I also wanted to ask here about how to handle these situations. We're a small company, mostly seniors, and most of them humble and cautious so it's hard to get people to step into more leadership roles when we don't really have examples of that to draw on within the company.

The other aspect is that his day-to-day role actually won't change so much now, we originally were planning to be ~25 engineers by now in which case I wanted to pull him from his team altogether. But we scaled back our growth plans so he is still needed on the team. In fact we already have a problem of capacity as we are in the middle of some big architecture decisions, build vs buys, etc, so his team has slowed down somewhat from his (and some others') participation in those discussions.

I guess I don't have any specific question just thought I'd share the experience as it's the first time I promoted someone to Staff.
If he was doing his staff engineering job correctly, he'd be happy to have every ounce of leverage granted to him by his title or anything else, because anything that doesn't need that leverage is someone else's job now. Sounds like a smell, I'd put him on a PIP

e: I'm 95% joking, but not 100%

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I find it hard to believe that the dude is at all at fault.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

SurgicalOntologist posted:

However, he has a bit of imposter syndrome and doesn't want to be in the position that people are only listening to him because of his title, and he wants to wait until he feels more like he's earned it before announcing it. I of course told him he already has earned it, not only with me but also with his peers, and they are not going to be surprised. Maybe there will be some grumbling but I don't think his concerns are warranted. I think I basically got him past his fear but I also wanted to ask here about how to handle these situations. We're a small company, mostly seniors, and most of them humble and cautious so it's hard to get people to step into more leadership roles when we don't really have examples of that to draw on within the company.

It's fine for someone to not want a promotion for any reason, that's their choice.
It's an ugly situation to promote someone, not change their responsibilities, and not tell anyone. At best you can say "I got busy and didn't announce it" so you look sloppy. At worst it creates a climate of secrecy where people end up being unsure if they should say things they know to be true.

You sound like you care a lot about the person and want to take some weight off of them, but at some point you're telling them they don't need to act like an adult and that's not good for anyone.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Maybe help him see the impact he's already had and the scope of his influence and technical leadership? I had a dev under me who was hired as senior, was easily one of our highest performing team members, had tons of domain knowledge, but I still had to help him feel "senior".

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.
Pillbug
I'm going through a similar thing now on my way to senior and it's a definite mindset adjustment.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

SurgicalOntologist posted:

The other aspect is that his day-to-day role actually won't change so much now, we originally were planning to be ~25 engineers by now in which case I wanted to pull him from his team altogether. But we scaled back our growth plans so he is still needed on the team. In fact we already have a problem of capacity as we are in the middle of some big architecture decisions, build vs buys, etc, so his team has slowed down somewhat from his (and some others') participation in those discussions.

I guess I don't have any specific question just thought I'd share the experience as it's the first time I promoted someone to Staff.

This part is going to be really rough on him.

I was in the same place when I transitioned to staff, and there were absolutely not enough hours of the day. The team manager for the team I was transitioning away from actually organized a meeting with my supervisor to discuss "my priorities" but was really to complain about me not doing enough of my previous team-tasks. I was lucky and it was a really productive meeting where I got to start by explaining where my hours were going and everyone agreed my new staff tasks took priority with most of my team tasks taken off my plate (in theory :( ). It could have easily gone another way.

In practice it has been an ongoing effort to step away from my previous responsibilities, even with everyone in agreement that I should be able to. I still spend a majority of my time on my previous team and am trying to make myself redirect questions back to the new team lead before agreeing to help. As a consequence, I often feel guilty about how little time I have to support the other teams I'm supposed to be working with.

LLSix fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Mar 29, 2024

SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE
Nov 4, 2010
Does anyone work in AppSec? Is it interesting enough to do in the medium-long term?

I currently do offensive security but miss the feeling of building things from when I was an SWE. I'm also beginning to feel the grind of spending 25% of my time compiling and peer reviewing reports, but that's just consultancy things.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
switch to woke security

Sign
Jul 18, 2003

SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE posted:

Does anyone work in AppSec? Is it interesting enough to do in the medium-long term?

I currently do offensive security but miss the feeling of building things from when I was an SWE. I'm also beginning to feel the grind of spending 25% of my time compiling and peer reviewing reports, but that's just consultancy things.

I did for a while but got out of it because it was all running into fires and dealing with the dumbest other teams in the organization. Plenty interesting though.

yigh
Jan 3, 2021

SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE posted:

Does anyone work in AppSec? Is it interesting enough to do in the medium-long term?

I currently do offensive security but miss the feeling of building things from when I was an SWE. I'm also beginning to feel the grind of spending 25% of my time compiling and peer reviewing reports, but that's just consultancy things.

Know a friend doing this for 5+ years at a FAANG with good pay and career growth. Grueling work though as technical knowhow / depth is higher (my perception) than other engineers at same company / job title. Nature of problem space is adversarial so you'll randomly get escalations when new attack/vulnerability is detected. If you can grow your team big enough, the front line people eventually take the brunt of the interrupts.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013
I find myself wondering these days how or even if tech companies will adapt to make remote hiring processes less lovely, or if it's just going to degenerate into user LLMs automatically doing applications that are then thrown out by company LLMs.

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SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE
Nov 4, 2010

Sign posted:

I did for a while but got out of it because it was all running into fires and dealing with the dumbest other teams in the organization. Plenty interesting though.

The dumbest team thing didn't occur to me. Right now I tend to work with people with at least enough interest to seek out security knowledge

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