|
ratbert90 posted:Companies can't legally punish people for discussing compensation with other employees. That's a federal law as far as I remember. Yeah but they could close down the highly visible discussions, which they aren't.
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 14:57 |
|
|
Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Compensation is fair – actually quite good if you account for everything. Add to that the culture of openness internally, and you get things like discussing compensation, with people visibly volunteering a lot of info for conversations, without repercussions. I've always assumed that companies would only be open about compensation if it was based on skill and experience, and not on the employee's negotiation skill. Is that true at Facebook?
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
lifg posted:I've always assumed that companies would only be open about compensation if it was based on skill and experience, and not on the employee's negotiation skill. AIUI you can negotiate within your salary band, or even negotiate your starting level up, but the step up to the next level wipes the floor with the salary band range, making negotiation mostly irrelevant after you level up I think. Getting promoted to the next level is based on skill and experience and is calibrated across different managers/teams/departments. As far as I've seen it, I think it's fair.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 21:46
|
|
|
Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:AIUI you can negotiate within your salary band, or even negotiate your starting level up, but the step up to the next level wipes the floor with the salary band range, making negotiation mostly irrelevant after you level up I think. Getting promoted to the next level is based on skill and experience and is calibrated across different managers/teams/departments. As far as I've seen it, I think it's fair. Is it only salary we're discussing here? I've never heard of a company changing previous equity grants based on being promoted and your starting equity grant has a long impact on your total compensation, generally four years.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 22:53
|
|
|
ratbert90 posted:Companies can't legally punish people for discussing compensation with other employees. That's a federal law as far as I remember. This has been illegal for longer than any of us have been alive, but it didn't stop a former employer from putting it in the handbook as a fireable offense. From checking the wayback machine it looks like it took them until 2016 to strike that from the handbook. I wonder if someone pointed it out to them, or if they got taken to court over it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
I'm surprised that Facebook is so open about compensation. I saw https://qz.com/458615/theres-reportedly-a-big-secret-spreadsheet-where-google-employees-share-their-salaries/ and that made me think that big tech companies are all shady when it comes to comp, but then I've heard that Facebook pays even more than Google, so maybe Facebook really is different.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
One of the company I worked with said compensation was proprietary information and company secret and Included not divulging as part of the non-compete. I'm not in the U.S. of A and it's not as illegal here as in Cali but they knew I broke that part and I never had legal or other repercussions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
oliveoil posted:I'm surprised that Facebook is so open about compensation. I saw https://qz.com/458615/theres-reportedly-a-big-secret-spreadsheet-where-google-employees-share-their-salaries/ and that made me think that big tech companies are all shady when it comes to comp, but then I've heard that Facebook pays even more than Google, so maybe Facebook really is different. As I recall, Google's compensation isn't that outlandish; high, but not top-tier high. They just spend a ton of effort on their other benefits.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 23:47
|
|
|
oliveoil posted:I'm surprised that Facebook is so open about compensation. I saw https://qz.com/458615/theres-reportedly-a-big-secret-spreadsheet-where-google-employees-share-their-salaries/ and that made me think that big tech companies are all shady when it comes to comp, but then I've heard that Facebook pays even more than Google, so maybe Facebook really is different. Its still not common for companies to publish all the employee salaries, but it doesn't seem uncommon among the bigger SV tech companies that engineers share them themselves (A bunch of us at Google do), I dont think its terribly different at Facebook from talking to my friends there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 00:38
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:As I recall, Google's compensation isn't that outlandish; high, but not top-tier high. They just spend a ton of effort on their other benefits. e: probably a lot less likely nowadays as the value of option grants for new employees is surely a lot lower than it once was Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jan 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
I remember reading about Fog Creek's open compensation levels. It seems like such a nice idea, especially for engineers, to have such clear numbers to figure out where you are and what your next steps are. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2009/02/13/fog-creek-professional-ladder/
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
asur posted:Is it only salary we're discussing here? I've never heard of a company changing previous equity grants based on being promoted and your starting equity grant has a long impact on your total compensation, generally four years.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 02:41
|
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:It's not outlandish for the majority of employees, but it's one of only a handful of places where you can manage a seven-figure income as a non-management-track engineer if you've got the skills and productivity to warrant it. Hi I would like a seven figure salary where do I sign up thanks
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 05:29
|
|
|
Doghouse posted:Hi I would like a seven figure salary where do I sign up thanks What Vulture Culture meant was "you don't have to transition to the management track to get the big money", i.e. an engineer with 20+ years of experience can make similar dosh as an engineer-cum-manager with similar experience at an ordinary company. They have promotion tracks all the way up to VP level-equivalent, or thereabouts. So, y'know, if you have that kind of skill, go ahead and apply and get your 7-figure salary!
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 05:42
|
|
|
I'd almost think that an engineer that would be valuable enough to warrant a 7-figure compensation package would be getting called by Google, not the other way around.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 14:11
|
|
|
Is the ceiling really that high? For some reason I wad under the impression that it was a much lower ceiling
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 14:46
|
|
|
If you're Jeff Dean.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 16:46
|
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:It's not outlandish for the majority of employees, but it's one of only a handful of places where you can manage a seven-figure income as a non-management-track engineer if you've got the skills and productivity to warrant it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
JawnV6 posted:Option grants?? What decade is this where they aren't RSU's? Early stage you usually get options and then later stage / post IPO RSUs are more common. Doesn't mean you can't issue NQSOs for a public company, just much more uncommon for non-exec positions. Lots of people also (incorrectly) use the two terms interchangeably though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
Doghouse posted:Is the ceiling really that high? For some reason I wad under the impression that it was a much lower ceiling Engineer compensation is a very long-tailed distribution, and the right end is only available to people who are either very good at what they do and who are working in specific places.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:Engineer compensation is a very long-tailed distribution, and the right end is only available to people who are either very good at what they do and who are working in specific places.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
i know an ex-goldman programmer (and he was a programmer, not a quant) whose bonus was 17 mil one year
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2017 03:45
|
|
|
the talent deficit posted:i know an ex-goldman programmer (and he was a programmer, not a quant) whose bonus was 17 mil one year How many years would he have been in jail if he took the fall for whatever earned him that bonus?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2017 04:21
|
|
|
The March Hare posted:How many years would he have been in jail if he took the fall for whatever earned him that bonus? For a white collar thing?  I'm sure it's worth it
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2017 14:58
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:For a white collar thing? Yeah, the answer is zero obviously I'm just wondering how he managed it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2017 15:08
|
|
|
so I just got laid off and the prospect of finding a new job absolutely scares the poo poo out of me. I was at my last company for about 6 years and worked in .NET/C#. I feel like I don't know anything and am going to bomb any interview I go on. I worked on a small team and it was my first programming job. I eventually got promoted to a Senior there, but am super nervous applying to Senior level positions, again, because I think I'm going to bomb any interview. I'm going to brush up on basic poo poo like data structures/algorithms/design patterns and all that, but is there anything else in particular I should know or start looking at? I've never had to interview for anything other than a complete entry level programming position, so I'm not really sure where to start in regard to what I should know if I apply for Senior positions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
sausage king of Chicago posted:I'm not really sure where to start in regard to what I should know if I apply for Senior positions. In addition to the CS fundamentals and patterns you already mentioned, I'd prepare for questions about past projects, library/framework choices, architecture, etc. Basically, when I hire for SSE positions, I look for someone that has the experience to tell me *why* certain choices work or don't work. Here's an example of 2 open-ended questions I asked of SSEs last time I was hiring: 1. If you were to start a new C#.NET multi-tenant, internet-facing web app right now, what would you do in the first couple days? What libraries/Nuget packages, patterns/project structure, etc would you use? 2. What do you like/dislike about ORMs (EF, NHibernate, other) and when would you use one or maybe a micro ORM like Dapper? I'm not sure how much you can study for these kinds of questions, as they are designed to suss out hard-won experience. However, make sure you are ready to code a FizzBuzz-type challenge. You'd be surprised how many candidates can talk a big game, but freeze when asked to code something simple.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:04
|
|
|
If you don't have much on your Github profile, I'd highly recommend putting a small project on there - anything at all, even a single-file project for all I know. At the very minimum you can demonstrate that you've at least heard of Github (you'd be surprised how many programmers are disconnected from the community) and that you might know how to use git.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 01:06
|
|
|
necrobobsledder posted:If you don't have much on your Github profile, I'd highly recommend putting a small project on there - anything at all, even a single-file project for all I know. At the very minimum you can demonstrate that you've at least heard of Github (you'd be surprised how many programmers are disconnected from the community) and that you might know how to use git.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 02:40
|
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:Just don't be the guy who submitted a resume to my team recently whose GitHub account consisted of two single-sentence documentation fixes and thirty completely empty repositories. If he wanted to communicate that he aims high, gets great ideas for things and never, ever finishes them, mission accomplished! I don't have much on my github, but I don't advertise it either. Mostly my dotfiles. Lol at any company that expects me to have a large open source presence when they won't be paying me to work in open source.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 03:38
|
|
|
sausage king of Chicago posted:about 6 years on a small team and it was my first programming job You probably don't want to hear it, but you may well not be considered senior level by many other companies because that's just a title, after all. Don't be too proud to not apply to mid-level roles - especially if they're at companies you'd actually like to work for because you could grow into whatever they consider senior to be in time
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
sausage king of Chicago posted:I eventually got promoted to a Senior there, but am super nervous applying to Senior level positions, again, because I think I'm going to bomb any interview. One thing I found helped when I went towards management for a while and then back to technical is keeping in mind that there's no overarching network of job interviewers who share notes on the people they've interviewed. If you bomb an interview it has zero impact on your ability in other interviews except in your own mind, so applying to a few to calibrate where other people think you fit is no bad thing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2017 22:33
|
|
|
Arachnamus posted:One thing I found helped when I went towards management for a while and then back to technical is keeping in mind that there's no overarching network of job interviewers who share notes on the people they've interviewed. If you bomb an interview it has zero impact on your ability in other interviews except in your own mind, so applying to a few to calibrate where other people think you fit is no bad thing. The other side of that is that completely bombing an interview doesn't even mean that that company won't ever interview you again. Unless you did something on the level of literally making GBS threads on somebody's desk they probably won't even remember you before long. Plus things change. They might have decided that they just plain didn't need anybody but four months later land a big contract that they need like 20 new people for and gently caress...do you still have that stack of resumes? You never know, they might even need a desk shitter then think back "hey you remember that guy that poo poo on your desk?"
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
Good to see that Chuck C Johnson will always have employment opportunity, somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 03:18
|
|
|
ToxicSlurpee posted:The other side of that is that completely bombing an interview doesn't even mean that that company won't ever interview you again. Unless you did something on the level of literally making GBS threads on somebody's desk they probably won't even remember you before long. Plus things change. They might have decided that they just plain didn't need anybody but four months later land a big contract that they need like 20 new people for and gently caress...do you still have that stack of resumes? Yeah absolutely agree with this, both on the "trying again" side and also the change in demand. You might be #3 for two positions in May, and #3 for five positions in July.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 12:24
|
|
|
I guess I'll ask this here first before I head to BFC...I'm drawing a complete blank on what you call the document that I've seen some freelancers use wherein an on-going client has a contract of sorts where it lists all the stuff that doesn't change from job to job. Then for each job they just sign a short thing describing the job that doesn't include all the boilerplate-ish stuff like warranty terms, licensing, etc. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 18:31
|
|
|
Thermopyle posted:I guess I'll ask this here first before I head to BFC...I'm drawing a complete blank on what you call the document that I've seen some freelancers use wherein an on-going client has a contract of sorts where it lists all the stuff that doesn't change from job to job. Then for each job they just sign a short thing describing the job that doesn't include all the boilerplate-ish stuff like warranty terms, licensing, etc. Like a base contract with addendums?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 19:07
|
|
|
Thermopyle posted:I guess I'll ask this here first before I head to BFC...I'm drawing a complete blank on what you call the document that I've seen some freelancers use wherein an on-going client has a contract of sorts where it lists all the stuff that doesn't change from job to job. Then for each job they just sign a short thing describing the job that doesn't include all the boilerplate-ish stuff like warranty terms, licensing, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
hendersa posted:Sounds like a standard statement of work Also called a "schedule".
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 14:57 |
|
|
Arachnamus posted:Also called a "schedule". Under US contract law, "statement of work" means more than just a schedule. From the legal standpoint, it is an addendum to the original contract (like leper khan mentioned). Thermopyle asked what this type of document is called, so... there you go.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2017 21:53
|
|