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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I'm not really sure that those problems are unique to embedded development.

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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Good Will Hrunting posted:

How are people able to find new jobs every year - 18 months? I don't feel like I can be comfortable at interviewing without 6-9 weeks, give or take, of algo and white-boarding prep per night and 2-3 hours on weekends. On top of that, there's take-homes and interviewing which are both super time-consuming. What am I doing wrong? Trying to have a life?

If you interview often enough it counts as practice.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Spend some time learning Haskell or OCaml. You'll get a lot of practice writing recursive functions, and that will translate into an easier time doing imperative programs.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


It's a decent explanation, but it's missing any kind of substantive exercises.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Haskell now is probably about where Python was back when Paul Graham wrote The Python Paradox. You're not likely to get a job writing Haskell, but you might get a job because you know Haskell.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


BurntCornMuffin posted:

Java's other big problem is that fresh graduates frequently land Java positions, and often don't have any training on tools or dev practices outside of the base language. I'm constantly having to teach people the basics of git/any source control, maven/gradle, unit testing, and peer review practices. People just don't seem to get trained on these things. Worse is if I find a project that had no such oversight: I just came into contact with about 17 years with all of the above mistakes and I'm dreading having to play whack-a-bug with that mess in the months leading up to it's EOL (or month before the new job, if things with this interview process go as well as I hope).

I think this is much more important than people realize. Java's not a bad language, but it is the lowest common denominator, and as such it's built up an ecosystem to support people who can't really program. There's some value in that, but the problem is that the tooling you need to take a bad developer to an acceptable one makes life painful for the good developers out there.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


comedyblissoption posted:

languages are bad

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


BurntCornMuffin posted:

This is also one of the reasons I find it odd that R is used as much as it is for data science. I cannot fathom processing an appreciable amount of data in a reasonable amount of time with just one thread. Even the pissing tiny little bits my last client was processing took drat near an hour daily.

The performance of R code is very sensitive to how you write it. Someone who understands how R works can actually get pretty good performance out of it even on a single thread, and there are a decent number of packages that offer abstractions for parallel computing. Unfortunately there's a learning curve attached to both parts of that, and there aren't that many really good R programmers out there.

The reason why we use it so much is because for a lot of statistical computing, there is no real alternative. Python has decent support for machine learning and it's starting to pick up some statistics functionality, but if you want to use a model that's even a little bit obscure, you're probably only going to find an R implementation.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Tezzeract posted:

This is pretty interesting - I've used a lot of R in undergrad, but when it came to doing anything 'big data' related, I completely fell on my face and had to use some ridiculous simplifying assumptions to wing it... like trying to use ARIMA on millisecond scale power time data over a few months.

Are there any resources on high performance R? Or is this one of those cases where its better to hack an implementation in TensorFlow and use the cloud to cut the problem down to size?

There are limits on what you can do on a single machine, so you will eventually have to use the cloud. R has interfaces for TensorFlow, Hadoop, Spark, and other distributed computing platforms, so that's not as big a jump as it would be otherwise.

The canonical reference on R performance is Hadley Wickham's Advanced R. That's a must-read for anyone who uses R for more than trivial data processing. There's also a book on high performance R that I'm not familiar with, but the Amazon reviews are pretty good, so it might be worth checking out.

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'm planning on, within the the next 6 weeks, starting to interview again. I really have no idea how to be polite when describing my current situation and spin the fact that my skill-set has hardly progressed over the course of a year in any sort of positive way. Help?

"my job doesn't challenge me" or "I'm not learning" are perfectly good reasons to be looking for a new job.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Try to put a positive spin on it.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


BurntCornMuffin posted:

Assume it's a bug before it's even coded out. I love it!

Based on my experience, this is a very reasonable thing to do.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Good Will Hrunting posted:

Is it worth it to qualify skills in different tech on a resume? I've mostly heard "no" but to say I'm equally proficient in my best and worst tech is not at all fair. But on the flipside I really don't want to have a "skills" section anymore - my work experience pretty much speaks for itself.

I break my skills section down into three parts: things I'm very good at, things I know decently well, and things I have some familiarity with (and can discuss a little bit in the interview).

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


If a manager is bound and determined to hire somebody regardless of your input, there's really not much you can do about that.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


There are some good jobs in comp bio, and that tends not to have the culture issues of tech companies in the bay area. I know Boston has a pretty decent scene, and I think Philly might finally be getting there.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Don't tie your career to any single language or framework.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Cancelbot posted:

On promotions: Does anyone have an end state in terms of their career? Or even know what they'd do when they get there?

I'm getting into people management more; I've been a senior engineer for 6 years so it makes sense that I start taking on more responsibilities to be able to run my own team. Eventually I see myself in upper management if I want to keep the raises coming, but I have no endgame despite being 10 years into a 40 year career. Eventually I'm going to end up in a specific role for a long time, but with no idea what the end goal is or what to do when I'm there.

Sorry if it's rambling or incoherent. I've just noticed that I keep pushing for progression wherever I work, but other than the money i'm struggling to see what else it could bring. My fear is grounded in the senior engineers who've been around at this place for 10-15 years and have nowhere to go, as they've backed themselves into a niche or career stagnation, and yet there's only a finite amount of promotions one can go through. So I worry that I will just never find a job good enough to stick at for a decade or more.

After a certain point, it's very hard to grow your career without access to the right opportunities. I don't know exactly what those look like for you, but I'm highly confident that most companies don't offer them. That's a large part of why a lot of people leave engineering at some point.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


speng31b posted:

I don't particularly think that I'll be worse at the day to day grind of IC at 40, but I'll definitely be less interested in it. I'm already at a point where it's frustrating to see products being developed with management/process mistakes being made that I learned a long time ago how to avoid, and I'd like to be in more of a position to help out with that. It's like a nightmare where I'm being driven slowly insane by watching teams drive slow-motion into a brick wall, and I want to yell to warn them to avoid it, but nothing but a hoarse squeak comes out.

The most important thing by far for staying in this career long term is finding a group that actually listens to its senior developers and doesn't regard them as expensive code monkeys.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Oh god I had five meetings today

Welcome to being a team lead.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'm going on 5 years of work without a break longer than 10 days (and only 1 of those) and I'm questioning how anyone does this for over 30 years. Even 2 weeks doesn't feel like it would be enough to get me the proper level of recharge and reset I need. My body just constantly feels burnt out, and I'm a fairly healthy person from a diet and sleep standpoint. I've been at the 40 hours/week, never less, rarely more than 50, but it still just feels like a real detriment to my overall brain capacity and levels of effectiveness.

Do other people manage because their jobs are less brain-intensive than writing code for 40 hours a week sitting at a desk?

You have to do stuff outside of work that helps you to manage the stress.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


rt4 posted:

Sales (agency recruiters) is usually the least responsible bunch of people in any given company. Programming recruitment is a hot market right now, so every unprofessional dipshit is trying to get a cut.

There are a few good ones, and they're definitely worth keeping in touch with, but for the most part this is right:

fantastic in plastic posted:

...recruiting agencies are staffed with people who have no appreciable skills except human language, but are not organized or persuasive enough to succeed in a sales job.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


In theory, if you're good at the basic algorithms and data structures questions, you should be able to do basic things with a trie even if you've never encountered it before.

In practice, everyone knows that it comes up in interviews, and they study it, even if they'll never actually use it.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

EDIT: okay so are they actually rare and I've just encountered them in every job I've had by coincidence?

The standard data structures are pretty much arrays with or without some wrapper, linked lists, stacks, queues, hash tables, binary search trees, heaps, and adjacency lists and matrices for graphs. Anything above and beyond that is more specialized and not something that everyone should be expected to have heard of. Some writeups and courses will cover some of the more common variations (e.g., circular lists, bit vectors, dequeues, B-trees), but you're taking your chances with a question that assumes familiarity with even those.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Good Will Hrunting posted:

My question is, how do I find a job that affords me the ability to learn this breadth of information if they... ask about loving everything in interviews?

You're supposed to pick it up on your own because you're so dedicated to programming that you study everything no matter how unrelated to your current job it is.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Munkeymon posted:

Did you know that not every question in a decent interview with a sane company has to be answered perfectly to pass the process as a whole?

Lots of interviews aren't decent, and lots of companies aren't sane.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Google does a general screening round, and that's where you talk to people from all over the company. If you pass that, you start talking to individual hiring managers to see if you fit on their teams.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


"weak at SQL and relational models" is a problem for most backend development jobs, and also pretty easy to fix. Maybe you can't do much about it in the very short term, but that seems like low-hanging fruit if you're trying to figure out what to work on.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.



All of that seems entirely reasonable. The models they're discussing are standard, but rely on getting good data. I can buy that TripleByte is able to do that.

They're also in a pretty unique position: they can possibly measure whether candidates who get rejected from a particular company are actually worse than those who get offers. That would be an absolutely fascinating analysis to see.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I don't think there's good data on productivity of developers, but the data that we do have on work hours vs. output suggests that marginal output starts to drop pretty quickly after you hit eight hours a day. That's not to say that you get less done if you work more, but each additional hour over that threshold is worth less than the ones before it.

(http://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf has some data for munitions workers, which is consistent with what I've seen elsewhere. They have to worry about the effects of long hours on injury rates, which we don't, but maybe the bug count functions similarly.)

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Cancelbot posted:

Whenever I read US salaries I realise I may need to move countries...

I'm a team lead, so above senior and USD equivalent is $72,000, but in the UK that's a good developer salary.

Have you seen what we pay for healthcare?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Age discrimination is a huge problem in Silicon Valley, but other places can be quite a bit saner. If you can find something where your legal work is relevant, that can help a lot.

Keetron posted:

This is legal?

In America? Absolutely. Not only can they require you to pay back the sign-on bonus if you leave, but they can add the same penalty to getting fired.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


They work for cheaper and they're less likely to have heard that one before.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Spending time at a FANG company or one of their peers makes a huge difference in how hiring managers at other companies evaluate you as a candidate. That's the real distinction between them and more typical employers.

As for why FANG, well, it's a nice acronym. Sometimes that's all you need.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


LinkedIn messages from recruiters are at least good for comedy:

quote:

How are you doing today? Your background looks very impressive. Are you currently considering Junior Software opportunities in NYC at this time? Must have 1-5 years of experience. A financial services company is hiring.
I'm tempted to ask exactly which part of my background made him think I'd be a good fit, but I already know it's because I have Python listed.

(And it's weird for firms to use recruiters for junior positions, right? That seems like a sign of a place no one wants to apply to.)

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Please tell us that the extra money made the other company's offer more expensive than yours.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Isn't a mid level developer just someone with a certain amount of experience? That's what it sounds like from the first part of your post.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Or how they're integrated with the source file that they're in.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


The precise level system varies across companies, but most places have a progression that roughly mirrors the analyst/associate/vice president structure that's common at financial institutions. You get a promotion every 2-3 years for showing up and being competent, and after you hit the vp-equivalent level you're not expected to keep moving up. "senior software engineer" is the most common title for that level, and that's highly unfortunate, but it's standard, so what're you gonna do?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Code coverage is a necessary metric, but it isn't sufficient.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Pie Colony posted:

I can't find the small girl grimacing emoticon but :ughh:

Are you looking for :chloe:?

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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


taqueso posted:



11 years is about right to be in the valley of despair. It is difficult to have perspective on your own improvements, but do you remember how hard it was to get anything done 10 years ago? Anyway, it gets better as you realize everyone has doubts even your heroes.

That's not the Dunning-Kruger effect. See what the Dunning-Kruger effect is and isn’t for an explanation of what Dunning and Kruger found and some possible explanations of what's going on.

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