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withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

borkencode posted:

Is this true outside of Silicon Valley? I've been writing code in Chicago for 7 years, and make less than that.

I made it there in about 5-6 years in Chicago so yea.

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withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

return0 posted:

USA tech salaries are just ridiculous. I get paid a decent wage for where I live in the UK (up north far away from London) and converting my salary from GBP to USD shows I earn $65K. Is the US extremely expensive for housing or petrol something?

Being far and away from a major city is most of it I'd say. The numbers you're seeing are for major metro areas. If I lived and worked far outside of Chicago I'd expect to be making a lot closer to what you are. COL being the major factor.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Also there's Kotlin now (which friggin owns) to freshen up Java's lack of competitiveness with C#.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
I worked in lockbox for a bank before and had to do 7 years of living and working history with no breaks and a regular/cursive writing submission. Background check, NDA, all that. So I wouldn't bat an eye if it were a financial institution.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Engineer to me sounds more like solving problems and less like being a code janitor.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Kotlin owns super hard

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
EAP rules if you have access to it. Using it for therapy was super worth it.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Big problem with EAP is that the EAP provider never removes providers from their list, so you run in to a lot of situations like what you've described. Another huge issue is that they make it super painful for Therapeutic providers to collect so many will stop taking EAP patients which sucks. You'd be better off looking for and checking providers around you first, then checking the EAP provider list.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
If you're not taking advantage of the unlimited PTO, you're being taken advantage of. One of the psychological things that happens is that since you can take as much as you want, most emoloyees end up taking drastically less because there's no fear of losing your PTO. This is of course poor thinking given that they no longer have to pay out PTO. Most companies aren't going to make you use your PTO, please take care of yourself.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
I won't even entertain the idea of a 16 hour take home. Unless you're paying me for my time, it's absurd.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
I've seen some good luck with remote work by starting a non-remote job where the person lives currently then moving to a new location. This also works great if you live in a higher COL area and are moving to a lower COL area since many larger companies don't downgrade your salary for moving.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Good god man, what market are you in so that I know to never move there?

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
How am I going to quit in a glorious display of emotional outrage if I have to plan ahead?

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I replied with a loose negotiation request. I'm taking the offer regardless.

Any advice for dealing with severe imposter syndrome when coming from a work environment where you feel like you didn't progress very much? :ohdear: Half-kidding, but this is going to be a pretty big rude awakening.

Just keep doing what you're doing. You got hired somehow, so unless you're a master imposter you'll be fine. It's nerve racking as gently caress though, and managing that is the hardest part.

I'm still convinced that the only reason I get hired places is because I've got pretty decent soft skills.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

lifg posted:

I don't know if this is relevant or not to people's career choices, but I have to share.

I work for big health care, and the way we make choices around here is amazing. We're using an expensive solution that does something with big data, ETL, data integration, and a dozen other things. No one likes it.

Recently some directors and VPs asked why we ever decided on this thing, because it's not really what we need.

The answer, I learned, is that the only reason it's being used is because, when this whole project first started, this software was a quick and temporary solution. And then everyone forgot that it was meant to be temporary.

Edit: I don't know if there's a moral in that, but it I think it's this: There is an infinite amount of money to be made in maintaining and fixing other people's bad decisions, if that's the type of career you want.

The main thing I learned from this happening a couple of times is that you should not build a temporary/poc system with the assumption that it will be replaced later. Too many times "throwaway" code has become production for me to ever believe a POC is going to be replaced ever again.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Pollyanna posted:

For some background, we're currently in a bit of a death march where we're working in a project that's way behind schedule and we're scrambling to get everything done by the new website launch at the end of March. It's hampered by the fact that we have two devs, me and a colleague, that for a variety of reasons aren't as effective as the lead (it's complicated). Project manager has been spotty and rough, devs have left the team, and our workflow is kinda poo poo. I feel unproductive and useless as a result, and feel like that blame is being put upon me.



Here's the feedback I got on the matter:


Translation: do only work, no learning. I've been doing some Elixir+Clojure book reading as part of our weekly "how much personal learning/development have you done this week" organization thing, which confuses me.


Translation: work overtime like the rest of us, rear end in a top hat. Also don't look only to tickets for work that can be done. I've been helping and pairing with the other dev on getting stuff done, but this seems to be a similar thing to the proactive part.

For a variety of reasons, our tickets and stuff aren't very well handled and we've recently been switching between Scrim and Kanban and all that, it's been a whirlwind. Honestly, I think this all just boils down to "look busy".

The biggest thing that worries me is that this (and the stuff about being proactive) is feedback I've received before, and that this appears to be a pattern with me. That's really bad. That's the kinda thing that tanks confidence in me and I need to avoid it.

If your entire team is on a death march and you're chilling doing 40 hours and reading books on the job it's really not surprising you'll get this kind of feedback. If I was in your teammates shoes I'd have already bitched you out.

Now, if you don't give a poo poo and you just want to do your 40 and go home that's cool and I feel you because this is also my opinion on work in general, just don't expect people that don't realize that there will always be more work to understand why they're busting their rear end and you're not.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Look at all these algorithms I've never needed in my career, sure I totally know them and didn't cram just before this interview. I definitely won't forget them immediately after they become irrelevant to what I'm actually doing. And I certainly can't use the internet to look up how to use them again if they become a useful way to solve some problem!

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Why are people so combative about me sharing my experience? Okay sure maybe I'm interviewing at the wrong places but I'm not lying about what I experienced. I will gladly share names of places I interviewed, many of which are large.

I think people, including myself, are more-so being combative about it because it's pretty insane. Like, if every interview I could possibly have was like that'd I'd probably just change careers. Working for a place looking for a regurgitation machine sounds awful. They aren't testing for intelligence or your ability to actually get poo poo done, they're testing your ability to spit out some answer that supposedly shows you know what you're talking about.

Hit me with white boarding or lets pair on some TDD poo poo, but if you're going to ask me about some poo poo that at the end of the day I can just look up then you either: A. Have no idea what a good developer looks like or B. Really want someone who's either hard up for work straight out of school or you're testing for someone that you can bend over with ease by making them jump through arbitrary hoops.

Jose Valasquez posted:

This is just playing the game. If a job requires this kind of interview and you want the job you have to prepare for the interview to get the job. It's not some absurd notion that someone wanting a job would prepare for an interview that is common in our industry.

Yea, and there's a reason that a lot of bigger places are altering their interview style because they're realizing it doesn't work, and it limits the pool of candidates to people willing to put up with bullshit.


BurntCornMuffin posted:

Considering I've had at least two clients who mishired a well spoken "experienced developer" that I would later end up teaching the concept of loops to, I would say at least a little coding is a must, even if it's a little bullshitty, because just a conversation isn't enough to make sure they're not going to torpedo a project.

Absolutely. I'm definitely not advocating for no interview at all, but heavy CS based questions for the vast majority of jobs is bananas. Show me how you think, show me you can write some clean code, show me you're willing to admit you don't know poo poo and you want to learn/improve. And then most importantly culture fit.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Good Will Hrunting posted:

"Java kicks rear end" - guy who has never written anything else besides lots of mini tracking servers in Node it's me

Just wait till you try kotlin then. Java may as well not even exist anymore.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Good Will Hrunting posted:

We use Kotlin for our tracking servers at my current job actually! It's quite nice. Though interop between Java, Scala, and Kotlin is tough (this is a product of a poor management team not a language deterrent tbf) I really hope I get to use it more.

I'm so new I've never touched any of the bad aspects of earlier Java I think. Dropwizard has been a treat to use and we got super solid performance from it in a use case that was super performance intensive. It also helped us get new services up and running so quickly, comes baked with a lot of nice and tunable things etc. I've never touched Spring or any sort of framework before that, which people seem to have strong feelings about.

Yea Scala interop is rough from what little of it I've done. Never used dropwizard, we mostly use Vertx for our backend work. I'm interested in trying Spring Boot 2 and the reactor stuff, but it's still probably more heavy weight with frameworks like Vertx and Ktor now.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Good Will Hrunting posted:

What are you doing with the responses? I just wrote a small app (like 50 lines) to do the same in Scala to replay web traffic logs to our staging API and it took like, under a day to get it running super effectively with AsyncHttpClient library.

I'm not sure Scala is a good pick for career or sanity. SBT is some kind of hellspawn.


strange posted:

I'm starting a small-mid size project and have been given the option to choose the language. We're going to be doing loads of external HTTP requests. Obviously many good options but in terms of career and sanity, what would everybody choose? We're currently using C#.

Are the requests incoming or outgoing? Is your shop all .Net? Would deviating from the main way your team does things be bad for future maintenance or if you're sick and someone needs to cover you? C# is a pretty good language, especially with async/await type stuff baked in, and if you're already running the .Net stack for hosting etc, you may as well stick with it.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

strange posted:

I agree with the concerns over picking something non-CLR/.NET but I've been given the explicit go-ahead to use whatever I want if I can make a technical case for it. Unfortunately my boss is leaning towards Node ("for performance" :airquote:), which I think is hot trash. I'm working with a single colleague who thinks the same. I personally love functional programming but colleague doesn't know anything about it.

We're in an exploratory phase so this is all a bit fuzzy, but it'll be an internal service providing a uniform interface to multiple larger, sprawling REST-like external APIs. We'll need a database tracking user consent over time and probably be using JWT for auth.

To me it feels like a natural fit for Erlang, but I suspect that's too much of a paradigm shift. Is it too much of an rear end in a top hat move to pick something like Go?

No point in node when you have a framework like Vert.x . Honestly Kotlin would be a good fit between your desire for functional programming and your coworkers' lack of exposure there. You can combine it with https://www.arrow-kt.io and get as much or as little functional programming as your team is comfortable with while sticking to a style of programming your coworker is comfortable with.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'm planning on, within the the next 6 weeks, starting to interview again. I really have no idea how to be polite when describing my current situation and spin the fact that my skill-set has hardly progressed over the course of a year in any sort of positive way. Help?

Sure, I've learned a lot on my own. I've done a ton on my own. But we use such unpopular tech and our method of accomplishing things is so out there (recall my rewriting Kafka post, poo poo like that) that I'm almost embarrassed to describe what I spent a year doing.

These are all good reasons to be looking for a job. Poor management decisions (rewriting Kafka), no room to grow as a developer, talk(and show) what you've been learning on the side. It's not too hard to spin without coming off as being overly negative.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
The answer to most questions is going to be Kafka/redis/kubernetes. You're welcome.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Kotlin has the tailrec keyword as well.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Do you guys leave yourselves breadcrumbs to help counteract context loss? If so what is your system for helping remember what you were up to before you left work/went on vacation?

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Too many solid suggestions to quote but appreciate the ideas. I'm especially drawn to leaving uncommented text notes right in the code to force me to look at them. Thanks all.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Looking forward to a world where both giraffe and girl are pronounced with the same gi phonetic.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice

Good Will Hrunting posted:

3 of 3 places I'm in the process with have said "Yeah prepare to answer a few tough algo questions, here are some good websites, work through the hard problems!" and linked me LeetCode like I've never heard of it. Thus far all 3 places follow the same procedure: hour long online coding interview with an engineer, 2 to 3 1-hour white-boarding problems on-site, and a systems design + "culture fit" interview.

I don't know what the proper way to evaluate engineering candidates is but even as someone now fairly comfortable with these types of problems, "practice a bunch of problems for your interview" really this isn't the way to do it in my eyes.

If American education has taught us anything it's that we should all simply study and learn for the test and nothing else matters.

withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
Studying to the test is working great for American education, why not apply it to interviews?

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withoutclass
Nov 6, 2007

Resist the siren call of rhinocerosness

College Slice
I'd honestly rather write straight up Java than Scala any day unless you're focusing in on some data science stuff. If it's because they're trying to scratch the FP itch, doing Kotlin + Arrow can get you there, with the bonus of avoiding the abomination that is sbt.

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